RDM Merits?

Courtney said:
That graph gives a good indication of the effects of Slow II at various levels of meriting but it isn't completely accurate (eg, Slow II with 2 merits actually caps at 36% not 33%)
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To nitpick - there's a typo here somewhere, since the graph shows level 2 capping at 36% and level 1 at 33%, though it might be obscured by the whole board-borked-bit.

Courtney said:
Honestly, choose merits for what you plan to do with RDM.
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Cannot be repeated enough, right on the mark.
 
lot of good info in the thread thanks for posting, cleared up my misconception about the having only one tier II debuff being equal to the tier I

edit...

Does Blind II really suck that bad? and secondly is there a chart for that i can read from?
 
It's more that Blind II is not efficient given your other uses of the merits.

edit: It's rather telling that Slow II overwrites Hojo: Ni but Blind II won't overwrite Kurayami: Ni.
 
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Araelus said:
To nitpick - there's a typo here somewhere, since the graph shows level 2 capping at 36% and level 1 at 33%, though it might be obscured by the whole board-borked-bit.
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Err, yeah, you're right. That's a graph that's been around for quite a long time. I'm sure the legend on it has changed at some point (probably to correct an original error in the graphing) as I'm sure it originally had L2 at 33% slow which didn't agree with the tests I did on the spell. I still need to go out and test what the cap is with 3 merits...

edit: and Blind II doesn't suck compared to Blind, but in general if you need a blind effect, Flash does it better...
 
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Enfeebling 8/8
Elemental 6/8 so far

HP/MP: (depends on race) but 8/8 for MP for me as hume

Tier I:

Had Convert Timer down merited 3 times for one min down but did not see a whole lot of help there for one extra minute...conserve mp from /blm would cover you pretty well in that regard. Took the merits down and decided to go with +2 in each sphere of magic acc except fire (since no fire based enfeebs). If you dont use Poison or Poison II then dont bother with water acc and beef up Ice and Wind by one each if you like.

Tier II: I will give a brief reason for my choice to take or not take the spell and you can be the judge from there for what works best for you:

Slow II: Excellent spell. Went 3/3 for it. Stacks with Carnage Elegy and is excellent for helping nin tanks get shadows back up and help plds heal themselves. Main difference from Slow I is that it acts like a nin Hojo in regard to the time it lasts, its guaranteed time, if it sticks it stays stuck for 2 mins at 1 merit and goes to 3 mins at 3 merit upgrades. I chose this over Paralyze because of consistancy. When it sticks it will be guarnteed to take attacks from an enemy over time. Paralyze II while good may or may not take attacks over time, again also there is no guess work for casting Utsusemi or Healing.

Paralyze II: I pretty much went over my reasons for not taking this above but if you do take it you will not be disappointed. Like Slow II, once its stuck it stays stuck for the same amount of time as Slow II based on the points you put into it.

Blind II: Like Paralyze II I was not fond of this spell because of the consistancy issue...never sure if its really going to effect the fight. Putting merits into this would have the same risk...never sure if its gonna be great or not really gonna help at all.

Bio III and Dia III: I grouped them cause I did not take them for the same reason. Timer is too short even at 3/3 cap. Only 1:30 mins long and not worth MP. If you are a DoT killer type these might be good for you or if you have a high powered war core that really wants to pound out a mob. However my biggest reason for not taking these is that NONE of my elemental acc merit upgrades effect either spell. This means more resists thus nullifying the true power of both spells.

Phalanx II: Most will not agree on this spell. I like plds...and plds like me when I cast this spell on them. Not the greatest spell in the world but again coupled with Slow II a pld can keep himself healed almost indefinatly. As a secondary reason...a lot of xp pts fight birds. Birds use Pecking Fury which as we all know is a series of individual small hits at a fast rate...it is not counted as one attack. Phalanx II affects each hit, roughly cutting damage by 100-150 from a pecking fury.

Thats about all I can say about rdm merits. Have fun and experiment with it to see what you like and works well for you and the people that you run with most of the time. :)
 
Mortikhan said:
Had Convert Timer down merited 3 times for one min down but did not see a whole lot of help there for one extra minute...conserve mp from /blm would cover you pretty well in that regard. Took the merits down and decided to go with +2 in each sphere of magic acc except fire (since no fire based enfeebs). If you dont use Poison or Poison II then dont bother with water acc and beef up Ice and Wind by one each if you like.
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I have one in Convert right now, but I plan on removing it. What's the point of a faster Convert time when most of the time you're in the role of a healer as Red Mage? Divine Seal + Convert and you're back up full and in the game again.
 
Forgot to mention that in last post Van and quite true in merit pt situation. Convert timer is most effective if you sub smn but for /whm it conflicts with Divine Seal timer and for /blm Conserve MP will take care of you most of the way.
 
I'm all about saving lifes and enhancing parties. Go-go phalnax and convert for monster MP anytime I want it. Pwn
 
Mortikhan said:
Forgot to mention that in last post Van and quite true in merit pt situation. Convert timer is most effective if you sub smn but for /whm it conflicts with Divine Seal timer and for /blm Conserve MP will take care of you most of the way.
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I was thinking along similar lines, meritting Convert recast might not be entirely beneficial unless you recieve several of them. With DS recast, every time you convert, you either need to wait for it to be up or use Cure IV twice which basically means an additional 88 MP spent. Even if you use convert, wait the 20xN seconds (where N is number of merits) there is a chance you could take hits and die or more likely someone else will cure, wasting their MP. And if you do that, the timer between Convert and DS gets progressively larger each time. That single Cure IV can translate to ~9-12% of your MP pool while decreasing recast time by 1 merit reduces it 1/30 of the recast time or 3.33%. However, in the case that you use two Cure IVs or someone else cures you, it does free up DS for other uses, but given most players' playstyles on WHM, it's usually saved for emergencies (or Divine Veil, but that's WHM only).

Don't get me wrong, I think Convert recast is a great to use your merits on, but with most people subbing WHM for DS (among other things), the benefit is slightly diminished in my opinion. Or maybe I'm just looking about it in a bad way.
 
Honestly, as folks have pointed out, it all depends on what you're doing as a RDM, and I'll throw in one more... Race.

For example, Elvaan RDMs have high MND to make Para and Slow effective. So, meriting Tier II for the increased accuracy alone allows you to switch gear around to increase effectiveness.

In the same way, Elvaan RDMs kind of suck for INT debuffs.

So, do you want to play to your strengths or be decent at everything?

But then again if you're never fighting high level NMs and just meriting, it really doesn't matter much what merits you have because you're just primarily a refresh/cure bot that occassionally saves the BRD when lullaby isn't up.
 
If you rely on Divine Seal to Convert, then you don't know how to Convert properly. If you're blowing a noticeable chunk of the MP you just regained back on cure-bombing yourself, you really don't know what you're doing. Make a decent convert gear setup, and don't just throw on a ton of zenith and call it a day. The best pieces will have +HP and +MP gear and those are the ones you should be using. Even if you do find it necessary to cure yourself back up to full HP right away, you should have the extra MP to do so. If you're a merit level rdm and you still die from Converts then...just wow. Hang up your chapeau, you need to find a new job.

Mortikhan said:
Forgot to mention that in last post Van and quite true in merit pt situation. Convert timer is most effective if you sub smn but for /whm it conflicts with Divine Seal timer and for /blm Conserve MP will take care of you most of the way.
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When do rdms ever sub smn? You can make perfect use of Convert and all its possible recasts with any practical sub job.
 
+hp isn't needed. Convert+cure4 is all I need. I always keep stoneskin up and never cure to full (waste of mp and i never get hate). Like someone said above, race plays a role. Elvaan mp sucks without mp gear and were good togo on hp. Mostly depends on your play style tho.
 
Calais said:
If you rely on Divine Seal to Convert, then you don't know how to Convert properly. If you're blowing a noticeable chunk of the MP you just regained back on cure-bombing yourself, you really don't know what you're doing. Make a decent convert gear setup, and don't just throw on a ton of zenith and call it a day. The best pieces will have +HP and +MP gear and those are the ones you should be using. Even if you do find it necessary to cure yourself back up to full HP right away, you should have the extra MP to do so. If you're a merit level rdm and you still die from Converts then...just wow. Hang up your chapeau, you need to find a new job.
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That's not the point I was trying to make. I honestly could care less about being at half my HP for a good part, but there are those situations where you do and will get hit in a merit party. Happens to me all the time, but I blame melees that don't voke and get hit too much that cause me to have to curebomb them. Dying from a Convert is different, those usually happen from your own stupidity. We've all done it, I know I have.

Also, not everyone has lots of Zenith they can wear. I have Zmitts that I never use on Red Mage; I find Duelist's Gloves or Marine M Gloves more useful, again situation depending. Only Zenith I would wear full-time on Red Mage would be slacks/pumps, neither of which I own sadly. +HP gear is definitley not needed. All I wear is HP to MP gear and MP gear. Having nearly 900MP as a Hume Red Mage before Zenith and food is a nice bunch of MP if you ask me.

Saying someone doesn't know how to use Convert properly just because they use Diving Seal doesn't mean a damn thing. Adapting is what Red Mages do, is it not? If you can't adapt to what the situation calls for, then maybe I should suggest hanging up YOUR hat.
 
Van said:
Also, not everyone has lots of Zenith they can wear. I have Zmitts that I never use on Red Mage; I find Duelist's Gloves or Marine M Gloves more useful, again situation depending. Only Zenith I would wear full-time on Red Mage would be slacks/pumps, neither of which I own sadly. +HP gear is definitley not needed. All I wear is HP to MP gear and MP gear. Having nearly 900MP as a Hume Red Mage before Zenith and food is a nice bunch of MP if you ask me.
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The sole piece of Zenith I own is mitts and that's mostly because I have blm leveled as well. I said lots of Zenith gear for Convert is NOT ideal. Granted, I am writing from a hume perspective, so elves and especially galka could make good use of more -HP gear.


Van said:
Saying someone doesn't know how to use Convert properly just because they use Diving Seal doesn't mean a damn thing. Adapting is what Red Mages do, is it not? If you can't adapt to what the situation calls for, then maybe I should suggest hanging up YOUR hat.
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Using Divine Seal is perfectly fine. If you have it, why not make use of it? Next time fully read what I said and perhaps you'll notice I wrote that rdms that rely on Divine Seal with Convert do not know what they're doing.

You seriously confused so much in my post, I'm going to assume you're just having a bad/sleepy/whatever day. Better luck tomorrow.


DarkMagnus said:
+hp isn't needed. Convert+cure4 is all I need. I always keep stoneskin up and never cure to full (waste of mp and i never get hate). Like someone said above, race plays a role. Elvaan mp sucks without mp gear and were good togo on hp. Mostly depends on your play style tho.
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Yeah, you're right. As an elf, I doubt you'd need any extra HP gear compared to, say, taru. My mistake for not being more specific. It does depend on your character and play style ^^
 
I'm close to 1100 1:1 ratio now as elvaan, and 5/5 on convert is schedueled.
(Restart haste/fresh-cycle after convert, then swap back to regular gear when I'm @ 800~ mp.)
As mentioned, divine seal is not necessary for convert, I rather use it for a cure on someone else.
Outside merit-pt's there's usally a tank or whm that fills up the hp-pool when I convert.
 
Lavi said:
I was thinking along similar lines, meritting Convert recast might not be entirely beneficial unless you recieve several of them. With DS recast, every time you convert, you either need to wait for it to be up or use Cure IV twice which basically means an additional 88 MP spent. Even if you use convert, wait the 20xN seconds (where N is number of merits) there is a chance you could take hits and die or more likely someone else will cure, wasting their MP. And if you do that, the timer between Convert and DS gets progressively larger each time. That single Cure IV can translate to ~9-12% of your MP pool while decreasing recast time by 1 merit reduces it 1/30 of the recast time or 3.33%. However, in the case that you use two Cure IVs or someone else cures you, it does free up DS for other uses, but given most players' playstyles on WHM, it's usually saved for emergencies (or Divine Veil, but that's WHM only).

Don't get me wrong, I think Convert recast is a great to use your merits on, but with most people subbing WHM for DS (among other things), the benefit is slightly diminished in my opinion. Or maybe I'm just looking about it in a bad way.
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No your looking at it the right way and it's the reason most rdms don't waste merits on convert timer. It's not really that big a deal if you don't like to sub whm I guess but I've been subbing whm since 2004 when basically 9/10 rdms were /blm.
 
(Not talking to anyone in particular here, just saying.)
The subjob has nothing to do with convert at all...
/whm makes it cheaper, sure, but it's not forcing you to use ds when converting.
Saying stuff like "I'm doing ok without convertmerits" is fine, I'm sure you are, doing just that; Fine. Not better then fine, and if fine is fine with you, fine.
But if you want to kick it up a notch and use rdm to it's fullest, well forget about divine seal, and get some propper gear for convert.
I'm not saying I never use ds when I convert, it's a neat combo, but only when it's really layback.


The subjobissue for rdm is always situational, and will always be.
(((No matter what kinda convertmerits you have...)))
 
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