RDM Subjob Must-Haves

[Lucki]

I was mostly thinking of /SCH for merit parties, not as an end-all be-all sub.

 

[Morwen]

So basically, the concensus is that /BLM, /WHM, /NIN and /DRK are the absolute most needed, everything else is just for kicks?

 

[Linhjah]

So basically, the concensus is that /BLM, /WHM, /NIN and /DRK are the absolute most needed, everything else is just for kicks?

TBH, Wenny, I don't think you'll be using /NIN that much. I mean, its a great sub, but I think that WMH BLM and DRK are more important given what you want to do (at least from my undertanding of what you want to do, lol).

 

[Malagra]

I was mostly thinking of /SCH for merit parties, not as an end-all be-all sub.

Yeah that's really the only place I could see it being used. I'd still like my Bar-spell against mamools, so only birds or other things that don't need barspells?

And forgot that Clear Mind doesn't stack, but you lose other spells which in a result would cause you to cast more. So you might save mp on each cast, you'd still be in the hole. Unless you don't ever need Curaga's or Barspells. You'd get the other status effect removals through Addendum: White, but you'd lose Erase completely too.
And I guess I was misunderstanding how Light/Dark Arts work, but it still doesn't change that it would really only be useful for meriting on birds. And then if you know you're not going to need Curaga II.

 

[Morwen]

TBH, Wenny, I don't think you'll be using /NIN that much. I mean, its a great sub, but I think that WMH BLM and DRK are more important given what you want to do (at least from my undertanding of what you want to do, lol).

Well, of all of the subjobs I listed, I have all but /DRK leveled. I have /BLM and /WHM because, well, obviously I have them at 75 and I have /NIN for PLD, so the only thing I'd really have to level is /DRK. I've gone /NIN to campaign quite a bit on RDM and its pretty fun but I honestly dont see myself being a tank anytime soon, especially since if we wanted a RDM Tank, we'd just use Foosk :3

 

[Neisan]

I'd probably rather /Blu for birds and just spam Healing Breeze (if I ever got the chance to/needed an AoE cure). If I use Curaga on birds chances are I have multiple Sams in the party...

I don't use barspells for Mamool, just Protectra II/Shell IV/Regen. I just hate having to run in and spam it every 3 mins. I do use Curagas but it's not always needed, and rarely efficient.

 

[Linhjah]

Yeah that's really the only place I could see it being used. I'd still like my Bar-spell against mamools, so only birds or other things that don't need barspells?

And forgot that Clear Mind doesn't stack, but you lose other spells which in a result would cause you to cast more. So you might save mp on each cast, you'd still be in the hole. Unless you don't ever need Curaga's or Barspells. You'd get the other status effect removals through Addendum: White, but you'd lose Erase completely too.
And I guess I was misunderstanding how Light/Dark Arts work, but it still doesn't change that it would really only be useful for meriting on birds. And then if you know you're not going to need Curaga II.

I would still /WHM over /SCH for meripo. Even if you aren't using barspells, most of the time there is at least one more that requires an erase (birds have a STR/VIT down move iirc).

 

[Rappa]

I would still /WHM over /SCH for meripo. Even if you aren't using barspells, most of the time there is at least one more that requires an erase (birds have a STR/VIT down move iirc).

Literal birds do, but colibri (which it's safe to assume are the birds in question) do not. That doesn't mean that erase is never needed since colibri will reflect things like Dia II/III and Elegy that help keep chains going.

 

[Lucki]

I would still /WHM over /SCH for meripo. Even if you aren't using barspells, most of the time there is at least one more that requires an erase (birds have a STR/VIT down move iirc).

edit: Rappa beat me too it

 

[Morwen]

Yeah if I'm maining in a meripo I'm only ever going to be /whm for just that reason, especially if theres a BRD puller.

 

[Bladewind]

I'm quite glad reading this thread, i wasn't looking forward to unlocking SCH and leveling 1-37, now it looks like i don't need to!

 

[Arthur]

I'm quite glad reading this thread, i wasn't looking forward to unlocking SCH and leveling 1-37, now it looks like i don't need to!

Like almost everything in the game, its situational. I know someone already said it, but it bumps up your skills to B+... that alone makes it strong. But is also lowers recast time , casting time and cost by 10%; and you can use sublimation to wake you up on things that can sleep you. You also get aspir and -na spells with the same sub. Penury and Parismony save alot of mp too for nukes and raise. I it for nyzul isle if we have a WHM or another RDM and its great. I usually use it any event if theres enough WHM and BLM but RDM is lacking. For dynamis you might need sleepers yeah, but if you dont SCH sub works. But for limbus...unless you doing a very low man floor you really dont need sleepgas just 1 person, if any at all.
I say get it doesn't really make sense not to.

 

[Javir]

Ok, I was about to go quote happy with a bunch of these, so instead I'll save myself and just post my overall opinion on this.

LS's preffered Order: WHM > DRK > BLM > SCH > SMN (NIN and BLU not listed because this is a generalized view)

Personal Flavor (for myself): SCH > BLM > WHM > DRK > NIN > BLU > SMN > BRD

The first group is what Leaders will look for in shells. Rarely do leaders let RDMs tank, unless they themselves are RDM tanks or have let it happen and enjoyed the results (or just to appease them if they whine at them enough).

Second Group, I'm what you might call old fashioned. My RDM has been 75 for going on 5 years. I come from when Refreshing, Enfeebling and Nuking on MBs was the RDM's primary job, with Curing and Hasting when the WHM needs help. This being when it was Tank/SC DD/SC DD/WHM/RDM/BLM was preferred (maybe swap WHM or RDM for BRD). So BLM had always been my preferred sub. WHM, makes sence to be among the top. I see SCH as less situational than DRK and I'll explain why below (though DRK is for one reason, Chainspell + Stun, so keep that in mind). NIN is mostly for soloing, makes Ifrit and them a breeze. BLU is great fun in ballista and has similar uses outside that as well (I solo'd two well geared PLDs at the same time, without using silence, between Phalanx/Cocoon/Stoneskin they never got me below 90-95%). Outside of carby pulls, no use for SMN. The magic and abilities of all jobs before it very much outweigh the auto-refresh and extra MP. BRD doesn't give much of anything but low level BRD buffs, of which Mazurka and Ballad are nice but 2 spells vs all the others from above.

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Ok, now onto the controversial subbing SCH. In situations where Cursna and/or Erase are paramount, SCH doesn't work out. Same with ES, Sleepga or Stun. Reraise can be purchased via meds/conquest(or similar)/AH (rr earrings/gorgets/hairpins). Having been a RDM for so long, and having SCH to 71 (as of last night) I have to say that SCH is imo the better sub for overall utility and flexibility, which is what a RDM excelled at for all these years.

You can have a sublimation charge before you reach camp (a free ~250 MP). You get the discounts on MP per the arts, and lets not forget the stratagems to help out once in a while (gogo 44MP Cure IVs or 75mp Raises, or the recast time cut in half). Sublimation is comparable to refresh in this regard: Refresh gets you 140mp after spending 40mp. In the same amount of time as a Refresh from start to finish, Sublimation can charge up around 100mp. Refresh only wins out on the angle that there is no 30 second timer to start the next cycle.
For RDMs fortunate enough to have Duelist's Capeau and a Refresh Body (especially if both), Sublimation would be more beneficial as you otherwise have a means to regain MP without resting to help offset casting spells.

Light Arts: with Addendum: White covers you for all WHM excluding Cursna, Erase and Reraise (spell). It also will improve Healing Magic Skill as RDM falls below B+. Now admittedly here, erase plays a huge role in many events, which is why even I place WHM above SCH still overall.

Dark Arts: while there isn't any change in the way of spells, times requiring Black Magic skills outside of Enfeebling Skill, this works very well. You can afford to use more MAB gear for nukes (I can push above A+ Ele skill with /SCH and Warlock's Chapeau, AF2 legs and Ele torque). You also gain Drain and Aspir and some skill to back them up. Between Bio II/Bio III (with merits), Dark Arts, Crimson Hands and Dark Torque, you can pull off respectable numbers (keep in mind that Bio DOT is Dark Magic based, not INT).

I'll also note that ES is a guaranteed way to land (if it can land at all), but for a RDM, most of those things we can land without it. Good examples are: Brothers (usually the big one is ES slept, but Tomasello and I have both slept that mob w/o ES), Azure Expiriments I personally have a 75% success rate without ES. But we also tend to have little to no problems pulling 1 mob at a time. Even on Kirin, most RDMs can land Gravity readily as long as they don't over use it, thus allowing it to build resistance.


Anyhow, so that's the angle I see it. You gain a lot more by subbing SCH than any other jobs in terms of overall flexibility and in several cases, capability. Unfortunately some things just can't be done without, namely Erase. Almost everything else can be replaced by items or a skilled player especially if they have gear to support them.

 

[Courtney]

As far as "needed" for endgame, you need WHM, BLM, DRK, and I have been asked NIN SMN and lolBST (but only rarely for these 3).

Solo, NIN and BLU are very strong. I have SCH but I can't think of any time I'd use it as it really only boosts nukes (MP a little too) and mostly if a RDM is there to nuke, the mob isn't very resistant.

 

[pchan]

/SCH doesn't seem great to me if while using light art you get penalties on black magic and conversely. Whenever I play rdm I constantly use spells like sleep (drk) cure (white) gravity/silence/bind etc (mix of light-drk). Add to this that you get no erase and some na spell would only be available with ligth arts ~.~. It seems to me that it's best suited for whm or blm.

The only places where I found /blu usefull was when I trioed the mamett mission (kiting) and when we trio The Ashu Taliff mission #1 (supertanking), and you only need BLU8 for this (cocoon giving +50% def).

t resting to help offset casting spells.

Light Arts: with Addendum: White covers you for all WHM excluding Cursna, Erase and Reraise (spell). It also will improve Healing Magic Skill as RDM falls below B+.

Upping healing magic is useless as with 70+ mnd and base skill cure4 is caped.

 

[Javir]

/SCH doesn't seem great to me if while using light art you get penalties on black magic and conversely. Whenever I play rdm I constantly use spells like sleep (drk) cure (white) gravity/silence/bind etc (mix of light-drk). Add to this that you get no erase and some na spell would only be available with ligth arts ~.~. It seems to me that it's best suited for whm or blm.

The only places where I found /blu usefull was when I trioed the mamett mission (kiting) and when we trio The Ashu Taliff mission #1 (supertanking), and you only need BLU8 for this (cocoon giving +50% def).



Upping healing magic is useless as with 70+ mnd and base skill cure4 is caped.

Yuh, you're right with the healing skill, it would only help to prevent interrupts at best. That's why I put out there. Negligible as it may be, I was trying to note all angles even if not fully elaborated.

 

[Tomasello]

I'm /DRK (we use CS Stun for Suzy).

I never understood why linkshells do this. Just go /blm and when he two hours Elemental Seal > Silence and he's completely neutralized. Hell you can probably land it without the Elemental Seal if your enfeeble skill set is good. I know I have plenty of times. The whole CS Stun thing is completely unnecessary and opens the possibility to let a fire nuke through.

Kinda on topic. If I know I'm going to specifically need to nuke out something /SCH is king but that's the only use I would get out of it. /BLM is awesome for dynamis. /DRK for any zerg situations where CS Stun is needed. /NIN is used when I know I'll be kiting or holding a mob/add. Otherwise I'd much rather /WHM in general play because I just find it to be the most useful red mage sub by far. /BLU from what I hear to supertank but I also got a PLD I can use for that.

I'd LOVE to be asked to come /SMN to something lol but in 4 years its never happened. ><

 

[uno]

rdm/war is good for certain situations also. Kiting around a mob that is being meleed on like the K Club BCNM.

 

[Javir]

rdm/war is good for certain situations also. Kiting around a mob that is being meleed on like the K Club BCNM.

/WAR is hardly needed, even for this. RDMs keep hate exceptionally well with spell spamming. Also, most people RDM, RNG, RNG this, leaving the RNGs to bounce hate with attacks, barrage and WSs. Even a COR could be a good alt to a ranger, though they'd have more difficulty pulling hate off the RNG unless they could sub RNG.

I suppose I could give you that the RDM could try to kite with melee DDs, but I'd preffer to just go with the guys who shoot from a distance, cause even if they do pull hate, they're already far enough away to keep the mob moving without striking them.

 

[uno]

/WAR is hardly needed, even for this. RDMs keep hate exceptionally well with spell spamming. Also, most people RDM, RNG, RNG this, leaving the RNGs to bounce hate with attacks, barrage and WSs. Even a COR could be a good alt to a ranger, though they'd have more difficulty pulling hate off the RNG unless they could sub RNG.

I suppose I could give you that the RDM could try to kite with melee DDs, but I'd preffer to just go with the guys who shoot from a distance, cause even if they do pull hate, they're already far enough away to keep the mob moving without striking them.

Our set-up that worked was me as rdm/war, blu/nin, and some other DD that meleed while i kited. It worked out very well.