Rip, Rig, Render

Shit thats looking good, do you think you'd be able to make a BG using this?

By BG I mean the ones here

My blank stage is very boring compared to those isn't it. I do know how to do that, and if i did, I'd have to create a new set of lights cause the indoor light scheme will not look right out doors, and I'd probably have to tweak every single shader depending on how it looks outside.

I'd lean more towards compositing the models into the scene, and when i do change the background, I'd have to redo all the lighting again, and possibly tweak the shaders again too. I'd stick to the same angle's just to keep the camera in line with the lighting and background, and I'd have less motivation to carry on with adding more characters to the scene/scenes.

I'll make one sometime though. When i reach the end I'm going to start rigging for animation.
 
Ah I see I didn't realize that to do that you'd have to change so much things lol.

Oh well none the less, I sure wish I could do half the things you can lol.
 
Anntaru said:
To Motarrisu: I'll get back to you on that, so in case you make it back to this thread before i get to fully respond, rest assure i plan on delivering some more information.

About the hair and the surfaces.

-Take the .dds file to Graphics Converter and save as alpha channel.

- Open the Alpha Channel in Photoshop (set the mode to RGB)

- Import the BMP of the face texture.

- Layer the Alpha channel and cut out the unwanted pieces using the alpha channel as a guide. you want transparency

- Save as Targa (.TGA)

- Use the new Targa as the face texture and your hair will have the needed transparent parts of the surfacing.

Oh I think I understand now, basically I'm adding onto the alpha map for the parts of the head sticking through the headpiece? Photoshop CS3 seems to be saving Targa files without the transparency (or at least mine is... ><) so I think I have to stick to the black and white BMP file and setting it as the opacity map or whip out another version of Photoshop and hope it saves the transparency.

I did a couple pictures for people in my linkshell on request:

I tried messing with the skylight... nice effect but the rendering time is murder... especially when you forget to set a transparency on the feet 3 times in a row ><.

I'm trying to mess around with gloss and specular settings to try to get them to make the materials look right, but I guess I need to figure out the lighting first to take advantage of that.

I am noticing a slight issue though - situations like the harness, in the second picture where skin is visible, it bumps out farther than the armor. To me it looks like he's got leather shoulders or something. I suppose on situations like this I need to customize a bump map where the armor is lighter and the skin is darker or possibly just cover the skin with black on the map? OF course, there's also the issue of the skin sharing the same material as the armor, so I suppose I may need to go in and set another material specifically to those polygons and apply a new material setting, cutting new faces as needed.

I've tried messing around with a mithra model to get an idea on a good specular setting for skin but it also reinforced that I should probably start making my own bump maps to account for the issue with skin vs armor depth.
Bump Mapping: No Bump Mapping:

With Shadows and Bump Mapping on:


Could just be my imagination but the bump map setting I used makes that outfit she's wearing look a little awkwardly tight (lighting in the bust area seems slightly reversed, where there should be a highlight on the clothes there's a shadow, when there should be a shadow on the skin there's a shine). The view on the far right seems to get an awkwardly bright band of light when there's bump mapping applied.
 
I was away the entire weekend and still I'm not at home, Next exposure will be more time consuming if a follow through with what I have in mind for it.

Oh I think I understand now, basically I'm adding onto the alpha map for the parts of the head sticking through the headpiece? Photoshop CS3 seems to be saving Targa files without the transparency (or at least mine is... ><) so I think I have to stick to the black and white BMP file and setting it as the opacity map or whip out another version of Photoshop and hope it saves the transparency.

Your adding it as a layer. Here is a description of the procedure...

In Photoshop
- Import the BMP of the face and hair.

- Import the Alpha channel you made in Graphics Converter 3

- For the Alpha Map window. Set the Mode to RGB just so you can drag it over to the face BMP in the other canvas.

*Make sure the Alpha Channel is in lined perfectly with the face BMP in the canvas.

Within the Layers... Duplicate the face BMP, and make the original one invisible.

*Note IN Photoshop when there is no picture we see those white and grey checkers. That indicates blank, or transparency.

- Then you take the Magic wand tool and go to the layer with the Alpha Channel, and select the black.

- While the black is selected, move into the layer with BMP you are going to cut. and press CTRL X.

- Make the Alpha Channel invisible to see what you've done. You want to see those checkers. And when you save it as Targa the parts will be Transparent when you render it. It may look mashed off the hardware, but it'll render beautifully.



Motarrisu said:
I did a couple pictures for people in my linkshell on request:

I tried messing with the skylight... nice effect but the rendering time is murder... especially when you forget to set a transparency on the feet 3 times in a row ><.

If that is taking a lot of time, then i think you might have some attributes cranked too much and some unneeded calculations are occurring. I use the Maya Rendering engine and the Mental Ray Render Engine. From the looks of your rendering you seem to be using 4 lights this time ? Plus the Sky light ?

Motarrisu said:
I'm trying to mess around with gloss and specular settings to try to get them to make the materials look right, but I guess I need to figure out the lighting first to take advantage of that.

You need to convert the shader to something else. If your going for the Plastic figurine look. Then change the node with the texture into a Phong Based Shader. Again I'm a Maya user but i think Max has Phong based shaders. Then when you tweak the attributes you'll then see options to tweak the specular. When you look at say that last Ninja i did. His legs have that white gleam on it. That's cause the specularity was cranked up and it is a bit much, but i left it so.

Motarrisu said:
I am noticing a slight issue though - situations like the harness, in the second picture where skin is visible, it bumps out farther than the armor. To me it looks like he's got leather shoulders or something. I suppose on situations like this I need to customize a bump map where the armor is lighter and the skin is darker or possibly just cover the skin with black on the map? OF course, there's also the issue of the skin sharing the same material as the armor, so I suppose I may need to go in and set another material specifically to those polygons and apply a new material setting, cutting new faces as needed.

In those cases i just spit new faces on the poly mesh and re apply the texture and give it it's own separate bump map. For the Elvaan female with the Beetle Harness, I did that the most for the arms and the arm strap. I also use Lambert shaders for the skin so i was able to have 2 sets of texturing for the body armor and legs.

Motarrisu said:
I've tried messing around with a mithra model to get an idea on a good specular setting for skin but it also reinforced that I should probably start making my own bump maps to account for the issue with skin vs armor depth.
Bump Mapping: No Bump Mapping:

With Shadows and Bump Mapping on:


Could just be my imagination but the bump map setting I used makes that outfit she's wearing look a little awkwardly tight (lighting in the bust area seems slightly reversed, where there should be a highlight on the clothes there's a shadow, when there should be a shadow on the skin there's a shine). The view on the far right seems to get an awkwardly bright band of light when there's bump mapping applied.

You can try splitting the polygon (Not sure what Max would call it, but it's when you make new lines in the mesh and apply it) Doing so does not alter the mapping either. Then you can select the poly faces you want and add another texture to it. Apply another shader with the same image based texture and make the bump values different.

Or perhapses inverting the bump direction might help.

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The most important when your trying to make it realistic is Lighting, not only cause it allows us to see. Lighting alone can make the image pop out instead of looking flat. I'll copy and paste a lighting tutorial I've recently made for a small CG community I attend.

This is a tutorial on basic lighting techniques. It's static lighting.

Myself said:
Even though i don't use 3DS'Max, I'm sure the lighting techniques might work the same in it. I'll take images from the last. Also to make it feel less complicated I'm going to make this as brief as possible so you can discover for yourself how to light, which is really the only experience.

First I'll mention there is indoor lighting and outdoor lighting. Simple enough. Just remember a model that was originally lit in an indoor set up can never look right if it were composited into an outdoor scene, and vice versa, that is all.

Now.

Here's what I'm showing you.
L1.jpg


Simply a rectangular space with a few objects in it. See how the walls are purple, then there are 2 lamps in the scene itself. Those lamps will let off the most intense light. It wouldn't really do any good to give you numbers for how intense the lighting will be, cause that all depends on the size of the environment and the distance given between objects and the lights.

One thing to note ... All lights must have decay. (In Maya it's called decay, not sure what Max calls it, but it's when the light gradually becomes weaker the further away it is from the source)

By default the lights in Maya have no Decay, it's probably the same in Max, so set them up to be so when you make them, by then you'll be ready to test their intensity.

Now the lighting set up
L2.jpg


- In the scene all the lights that effect the space are shown in white. Mostly spot lights.

- That white X shape you see in the front, is part of the rectangle you see. That is an area light, it barely serves a purpose might i add.

- Looking at the spot lights on the 2 sides ... They are actually behind the surface.

- Looking at the spotlights on the top and on the bottom, they too are behind the surface.

The spot lights placed behind the surfaces are assigned not to see the surface they are hiding behind. They are also letting off purple light to mimic light refracting from the surface.

Note:If you were to put your hand near a red cloth and shine a bright light on it, you will see the colour red on your hand. This is why the light shining through the surfaces are coloured to match the coulor of the surface in the scene.

-Looking at the 2 Lamps, they were given Spot lights (with Fog effect). But what's important is that each one of those lights has a spot light under the ground to create that light bouncing effect. the lights behind the surfaces MUST have decay, all lights every time MUST HAVE DECAY. Always remember that.

LightingReel.jpg


In the above pic you can see a yellow ray of light shining on the characters right leg. That is a combination of the green and red on that spinning thing the character is standing on. If you go back and look at the lighting set up, you'll see i put 2 area lights in that area, so that would intentionally happen. On a side note, this is not perfect lighting. I should have animated it to narrow down when the shadow passes over that spot so we don't see this yellow light, but you catch the drift.

How intense you need to make the lights behind the surfacing is really a matter of opinion. Those lights should also cast shadows in very settle ways. In many cases you can skip making them cast shadows but keep in mind refracting light does cast shadows.

On other note, the character in that scene has no textures. Just used a Phong base with some reflection. Everything else in the scene has a basic Lambert shader.

One more thing when going for a realistic render. You need some kind of environment. Even if we were to cut out a real photo and apply it to a dark background, it will look out of place, same rule apply for us.
 
Oh, was that all you were talking about for the hair transparency? I understand that part. Photoshop CS3 is still saving the image without transparency when saved as a Targa though.

Sample:

Might just be an issue with my copy or something but there's no option during saving that will let me retain the transparency. I'll have to test that theory when I get to class tomorrow. Using the black and white image from GC3 as an opacity map seems to work in most cases for now till I figure this issue out. Or I can just save the images as .png and use that.

Err.. upon further research, apparently the Targa file will remove the transparency if I don't use an active dummy layer ><. Well that's one issue solved.

The issue I was talking about with hair was how the hair on Tarutaru sticks through any hats that get very thin (like the BLM AF hat or the Optical hat models).

Example:


Those extra polygons I've been deleting in 3d studio max. That's what I was trying to find another method for. They don't seem to make new Alpha maps for those heads in the game judging by the dat, so I was figuring there was some other approach I could use to make that part simpler aside form manually deleting or moving the polygons. I guess that's still the quickest solution.

On those two images with the skylight - it's just 2 lights, one omni light at an angle from the model, and the skylight sitting over the character. The setting that's probably making those renders take so much time is probably the skylight's 20 rays per sample (the default setting). When I turn that down it speeds up a little.

I don't seem to have a Lambert Shader option for skin, so I'll have to figure out if Max has something equivalent to it. I'll see what I can figure out about max's lights too to figure out what the term they use for light decay (if it has one... I assume it has one... I guess I'll figure that out when I dig around).
 

You need to delete the black parts on the alpha channel. Then Layer the White on top the face, and use it as a stencil to guide you as to where to delete the unwanted parts on the Face BMP texture. Then when the deed is done. Hide the White Alpha Channel and save as Targa. The parts will be transparent when you apply it. When you do apply it the head might look odd off the hardware, but it'll look as intended when you render it out. When I get home I'll do up some screens for you, but if you pull it off before that just let me know.

For the surfaces on the head on the actual model, i do the same thing you do and delete the surfaces that poke out of the headgear.
 
Hey Ant, if it's not too much trouble maybe you could make my character too to go with that group set you were doing?

This pose and armor please. (done with old model viewer)
DrkAF2gswd.jpg
 
I just got home an hour ago and I just fired up the software, I'll extract your model and put it aside until i reach it Ecks. I'll do my best to get all caught up before Sunday.
 
To Motarrisu: That thing i said about not having any backgrounds to achieve good imagery. I take it back. ._.
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To Zaltana:

Carbuncle.jpg


Titan.jpg


Rumah.jpg


Shiva1.jpg

Shiva2.jpg


Fenrir.jpg


Garuda2.jpg

Garuda1.jpg


Uploading more right now.
 
Diablos2.jpg

Diablos1.jpg


Lev.jpg


Ifrit1.jpg

Ifrit2.jpg


Dogie has the absolute worst texture thus far. This image has a few other issues but render times have increased due to the new scaling I'll be using from here on.
Zaltana3.jpg


Just some slight glow on Carbuncle and Titans hair, I was going to make them all glow, but that wouldn't be too good.
Zaltana2.jpg


Something about that Wyvern. If it's not too reflective it's too dark on the shaded side.
Group13.jpg


Moving onto the next.
 
Wow.. those ones of Zalt are pure badass. The avatars looks amazing.
 
fenrir is actually one of teh best imo, the rough texture represents his personality in the fenrir prime quest... but shiva, levy, and garuda are awesome too
 
Ifrit IMO looks the best, and Shiva after that
 
That is fan-FUCKING-tastic. far better then i could have imagined. you redefine awesome dude!!!

*edit*
it looks like me and Fenrir are tracking something. he even tossed in a lil bit of my rng too. :)
 
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Holy shit, this stuff is fucking awesome. I love the one with the avatars!
 
i set the one of me and my peeps as my desktop. been itching for a good new one for a long time. thanx again dude.
 
I got caught up with the Avatars, it was fun selecting their poses, they have some nice ones. The entire thing took around 9 hours to prepare, so I'm glad you all enjoy it. I was shocked to see how large some of them turned out when i converted them and compared them to the Mithra model. I don't remember the avatars being that big. Leviathan is the largest of the bunch, He's actually a lot further away from the camera that you'd think he's so big.

To Rannoch: Your suppose to make a request when you come here.
 
I don't really want to make a request, I can tell you're busy as it is. I just wanted to comment on how good this stuff looks, but If I have to make a request.. One with all the avatar's posing, I guess.
 
i've never seen that stance that you have me in when i was browsing model viewer. imma have to look it up. i have a few P.shop ideas running through my head.
 
i've never seen that stance that you have me in when i was browsing model viewer. imma have to look it up. i have a few P.shop ideas running through my head.

It's a Katana weapon skill animation. That character did an air spin and landed on it's feet. When you find it the character will be holding the staff over it's head. I had to reposition it.
 
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