SCH vs BLM

[Necrosis]

Can someone explain how SCH comes out as more MP efficient over time? I don't have wotg and I've never even really seen said job in action so I don't have a clue.

 

[Liefe]

I'm a little surprised questions like this are still being asked.

SCH is effective as a healer/support and a damage dealer both. It can't generate numbers as big as BLM due to gear/trait differences or do strong aoe damage but it can use tier4s quite effectively.

Both are useful, though BLM is a bit more flexible on what you can use it to damage.

As far as the future of SCH's offensive capability goes, I'd like to see them adjust the formulas for Helix spells. Currently they are pretty weak against higher INT targets, not even counting MDB/Magic damage -% that the enemy may have. I would also like to see them have access to the morrigan's set.

For a job being pretty much "out of the box" and only receiving one update so far, I have to say it is pretty amazing. No job specific merits,af2,etc and it still holds its own for pertty much anything. I wish SE would be so diligent about balancing the other 4 newer jobs.

 

[Liefe]

Can someone explain how SCH comes out as more MP efficient over time? I don't have wotg and I've never even really seen said job in action so I don't have a clue.

Can use Penury once a minute, 50% MP cost, with a tier 4 nuke. But in situations where a lot of damage needs to be done in a short period of time and stratagems run out that changes entirely.

 

[Tim Wakefield]

Using the healing argument on behalf of SCH is null and void IMO. That'd be like comparing NIN vs. WAR damage, but then saying NIN wins because it can also tank. He did say in the OP "in damage".

That being said, I know nothing about SCH either, so carry on.

 

[pchan]

Using the healing argument on behalf of SCH is null and void IMO. That'd be like comparing NIN vs. WAR damage, but then saying NIN wins because it can also tank. He did say in the OP "in damage".

That being said, I know nothing about SCH either, so carry on.

SCH is 3 mages in one so only considering it from the "nuke" point of view is too restrictive. An endgame player must know to use his job in many situation, like RDM nuking, BLM sleeping, WHM sleeping etc... SCH can do all 3 -nuke enfeebling, healing- and is efficiently at it.

 

[pchan]

Can use Penury once a minute, 50% MP cost, with a tier 4 nuke. But in situations where a lot of damage needs to be done in a short period of time and stratagems run out that changes entirely.

Also under Dark Arts, you get -10% black magic MP cost. Conserve mp from BLM is only 6-7% spell cost reduction on average, and in this case SCH get both conserve mp and -10% cost, so make it -17% spell cost.

 

[Tyrath]

SCH with elemental skill build shouldn't have trouble on JoL

during dark arts, elemetnal skill = 256 + 16(merits) + 15 (AF body) = 287

which is already overkill for dyanmis, limbus, merits.

Because dynamis, limbus, and merit mobs resist like JoL??

HNMs (i'm thinking jol, khimaira, etc) need elemental skill in the 300s to consistently not resist.

 

[Jeska]

Sch went through a few changes in an update following the release of the expanison and job, did they want to make the job more desirable by giving it such versatility?

My Sch is still lv 1 now it seems I need to level that to keep up with the Joneses.

 

[Ewok]

You guys can also ask Xynin about his experiences, he has SCH and BLM at 75, I think his BLM is fully merited, and has very good gear for both. While talking with him, his general opinion has been that if you're just going to nuke, might as well go BLM. The potential for aoe buff's, on the other hand, makes it an insane support job by far (SE updated en-spells, now only based on caster's stats). Also, when doing the math on magic skills, dont forget the 2 af pieces give I think +15 to each skill within dark arts or light arts, while one or the other is active.

 

[pchan]

Because dynamis, limbus, and merit mobs resist like JoL??

HNMs (i'm thinking jol, khimaira, etc) need elemental skill in the 300s to consistently not resist.

Read what I said and you'll see they can easily get more than 300 ..

 

[Tyrath]

This put you at 220/225 elemental skill on thunder, 230/235 elemental skill on blizzard, which is more than enaugh for most activities outside Kirin.

I'm sorry. You typoed 2XX for all of them, which is why I wasn't sure what you were saying.


BLM can still get that much without sacrificing all those spots where int and MAB can go though. So I still don't see a SCH outdoing a blm is dmg alone. As liefe said, yah they can be a great combination of damage and healing.

 

[pchan]

I'm sorry. You typoed 2XX for all of them, which is why I wasn't sure what you were saying.


BLM can still get that much without sacrificing all those spots where int and MAB can go though. So I still don't see a SCH outdoing a blm is dmg alone. As liefe said, yah they can be a great combination of damage and healing.

Depends what mob you kill. And to be honest I think SCH's dmg would actually be better than BLM on Kirin, simply because w/e good geared BLM you are, you get resisted too much, and the helices spells will do more damage than any any resisted (and possibly unresisted) tier 4 aero (=700 ish only unresisted).

And yes you'd lose a lot of INT compared to BLM (like 20), but I belive SCH has the potential to nuke twice as many spell as BLM so it compensates. Also SCH is here to buff other BLMs with weather so it's 100% win.

 

[Tyrath]

Depends what mob you kill. And to be honest I think SCH's dmg would actually be better than BLM on Kirin, simply because w/e good geared BLM you are, you get resisted too much, and the helices spells will do more damage than any any resisted (and possibly unresisted) tier 4 aero (=700 ish only unresisted).

And yes you'd lose a lot of INT compared to BLM (like 20), but I belive SCH has the potential to nuke twice as many spell as BLM so it compensates. Also SCH is here to buff other BLMs with weather so it's 100% win.

Wouldnt helix spells resist too? I'm not sure how the dmg on that works.

Oh and I'm not saying sch is bad. I'm just iffy on whether one could straight up out-dot a blm. They seem great to have in alliance. I'm just not sure if I'd rather throw an army of blms + 1 sch or an army of sch at something.

 

[Tavjon]

Tav on floors where it says eliminate all enemies have you tried giving everyone AoE -en spells? It seems to work well in salvage so I figure on those floors only it will as well since the mobs have such low HP/Def/Eva etc.

I don't sub RDM in Nyzul for the reason that having WHM as my sub makes it easier to AoE -na and Erase. Lame ass Chariots and Soulflayers suck. Though I lose Gravity, Sleep 1, Bind and Phalanx it saves me a charge which really makes a difference when we are in a clutch.

Also Rapture Curaga II is great way to cure the party when everyone is getting all chopped up. Better than doing Accession Rapture Cure III or some such.

I'll be updating the journal as I keep going to more endgame events.

 

[Liefe]

Depends what mob you kill. And to be honest I think SCH's dmg would actually be better than BLM on Kirin, simply because w/e good geared BLM you are, you get resisted too much, and the helices spells will do more damage than any any resisted (and possibly unresisted) tier 4 aero (=700 ish only unresisted).

And yes you'd lose a lot of INT compared to BLM (like 20), but I belive SCH has the potential to nuke twice as many spell as BLM so it compensates. Also SCH is here to buff other BLMs with weather so it's 100% win.

No. Helices (currently) blow ass against Kirin or ANY high INT target. SCH's most effective DD spells for most situations are the tier 4s. Helices have a very low base damage which is coupled with a low INT modifier meaning that you'll get single digit numbers on some of the harder mobs in the game. Hopefully they'll buff that. I hate to sound greedy for more power on SCH but it's kinda silly making the only high level SCH-specific magic pretty underwhelming.

 

[Tavjon]

I would be nice if the tier 2 SCH merits are Helix II spells that have a completely different formula than the current Helixs.

SCHs are also missing the JSE gear which will hopefully be added in the upcoming update

 

[Liefe]

I don't want Helix IIs. I just want the originals fixed. There are already 8 ranging from elvel 61-75. It's not like they're low level spells that it would be cool to replace with another version of.

 

[Uzor]

Wouldnt helix spells resist too? I'm not sure how the dmg on that works.

Oh and I'm not saying sch is bad. I'm just iffy on whether one could straight up out-dot a blm. They seem great to have in alliance. I'm just not sure if I'd rather throw an army of blms + 1 sch or an army of sch at something.

I doubt a SCH could out-DD a BLM in end-game situations. However, SCH is still very useful in end-game situations. For example;

They can AoE weather the BLM's to add 10% damage and accuracy to their spells. They are excellent at crowd-control and can AoE gravity, Bind etc. mobs in Einherjar, Dynamis and wherever else it can be needed. They can also cure entire parties from outside party (or alliance, if you so wish for, say, Tiamat) with the help of Accension, all while dealing some nice damage. Also, they are excellent for party situations due to the ability to stack a weather buff on top of day bonus and cast Accension > Enspell after this to give their en-spell a 20% damage bonus. This makes it so that their en-spells at 75 do 20 damage per hit in places outside of Salvage (and high-resist mobs etc. naturally) This is a +20 damage/hit buff, which I'm sure any 1-handed melee would love to get. This, by itself, compensates rather nicely from the lack of haste from a pure DD-view (that is, not counting for spell recast times). What's even better is that en-spells also benefit from added haste.

The good thing about SCH is that it can take any role in a party, DD, healer, crowd-control, and do all of them great. They can also buff nicely, as well.

 

[Tavjon]

Klimaform is also a crazy spell when used properly. Since it only lasts a minute you need to have absolute communication with every BLM. The magic acc itself is so insane that you could go full dd gear as blm and have unresisted nukes on hnm and gods.

Since Manifestation doubles the recast timer on any spell you AoE you also need to use Alacrity on top of Manifestation to jack the recast timer back down also another way to bring the recast timer down it's beneficial to invest in some Haste% gear and equip sch feet which give 2.5% off on the recast which is better that rostrums Fast Cast.

The lowest I can get my timer down by is 2:21min w/ Rune Chopper, Turban, Loq. Earring, RDM Sub, and Alacrity though I'm still missing Goliard Body and Swift Belt it still isn't too bad to wait around one minute rather than 4:14min

 

[Tyrath]

I doubt a SCH could out-DD a BLM in end-game situations. However, SCH is still very useful in end-game situations. For example;

My post already says they are great to have ;|