Soulstar ninjalotted YYR from Myrrh

[Winklewil]

Ya Meeze I'm just too fucking stupid to understand why two members of the same LS had to pick someone to get it first when everyone was supposedly saying they were going to camp it again the next night.

It matters not whether or not they "had to" pick someone. The only relevant issue is that they DID pick someone, and it only took a handful of people (most of whom had ABSOLUTELY no right or authority to get involved in the first place) to completely defecate all over the honor of that "deal."

There are arguments that can be made regarding why such an agreement was hashed out -- honestly, from what I've read, it was an utterly reasonable, justifiable request on Myrrh's part. It wouldn't matter if Myrrh's desire to have "firsties" was COMPLETELY out of line, however, simply because of the fact that SOULSTAR AGREED TO IT.

All the details of the case fade away and perish before that one, shining point. If you want to muck about in the minutiae of the situation, FINE -- most of them seem to support Myrrh anyway. The fact remains, however, that it's clear who came out looking victimized in all of this ... and it's not the person currently enjoying that robe.

 

[Winklewil]

Wow. Just ... wow. I've finally completed this thread. All 59 pages, all 600 posts of it. Wow.

I'm just left with the lingering feeling that it's one of the most depressing threads I've read on the Flameboard in a long time. It's also (by far) the most entertaining, and the most revealing.


It's depressing to see people who I otherwise think very highly of (even though I know them purely from interaction at QCDN), insist on staying on the defensive. There is no defense in this sort of situation; only apology. Why .. just, WHY ... are we going in circles with the same flimsy, baseless lines of reasoning?

I address the most cringe-worthy arguments with the following:




"They worked on it equally, so from our perspective, they had equal lotting rights."


1)From the lips of Myrrh and countless others, Myrrh worked on this robe FAR longer and FAR harder than did Soulstar. There was not an "equal" amount of work invested into this robe. What's more, it's very much possible to "sign away" your rights, even in the United States. Soulstar made an AGREEMENT beforehand that Myrrh would be granted exclusive lotting on this item. That made whatever claim he had beforehand ZERO on this particular drop ... that action alone. Nobody's really buying the idea that Myrrh would have refused to help later, and even if it was a serious concern, it would have largely been irrelevant once the agreement was made.

2) More importantly, it WAS NOT YOUR PLACE to be rendering lofty, ivory tower decisions on who had what rights to lot. This was not an event sponsored by your linkshell. Those alliance members who belonged to your shell were in the minority, and apparently, most of them seemed to be under the impression that this was going to be "Myrrh's robe." If you're in the middle of a Sky or Dynamis run, FINE -- make those tough calls. When you're 40 zones away and your only connection to the situation is a handful of your members (that are outnumbered), however, then you have about as much say in the situation as does a Peruvian village council over an industrial zoning dispute in Manhattan.



"We didn't know about any 'agreement' until afterwards.


1) This is believeable on Zerayla's part, but from Xean's own words, we know that HE (at least) had a much stronger understanding of the situation. He very much encouraged an otherwise reluctant member to "pull one over" on Myrrh. He did this based solely on a personal dislike and distrust of the guy; that much is pretty much beyond question.

2) I refer you to the last "point 2" of the previous argument -- even if you suddenly had full knowledge of the evening's happenings magically beamed directly to your head, this was still completely outside of your jurisdiction. You had no place, ABSOLUTELY no justifiable influence, to make any sort of decision about what "who" could do "what." It just wasn't your call, no matter how much you knew.


"We're trying to make nice now."


1) It's not so easy to just "fix" a nasty conflict like this. I'm not talking about the actual deed, per se, but the rather harsh words that Myrrh had to suffer directly following the incident. Myrrh now knows fully well that Xean, along with a good CHUNK of the The Brotherhood's membership, flat out DISLIKE HIM. Who could just return to the shell after seeing all of that rancid bile spread about them? Do we honestly just expect Myrrh to pretend he didn't see the velvet curtain withdrawn, and that he wasn't exposed to the "true feelings" of a number of people he considered to be friends? I, for one, just could not STAND being in the linkshell any longer ... not after it was revealed that I was something of a hated figure. It's humiliating, and it's hurtful. For me, at least, this is almost as great a sin against Myrrh as was the ninja lot.

2) Not to re-hash what I've just stated above, but -- a large part of the slander against Myrrh (and, oh yes, it very much WAS slander) involved a rumor that has since been revealed to be blatantly untrue. "Making nice" would involve apologizing for allowing something so untangible, so shady and unknowable, influence your perception of Myrrh in the first place ... let alone spreading the crap like you knew it firsthand.




The situation is utterly unfixable, from a standpoint of broken friendships. Your only hope of saving face, now ... which I assume you're still interested in doing ... would involve abandoning attempts to defend your actions. You'll garner far more respect, and far more good will, by simply APOLOGIZING. That's really all that's left to be done.

 

[motley]

there are people in this world who would much rather be alone than admit they were wrong....

This game is no exception

 

[duncanrun]

Read the whole post before quoting something please. If you read it you would realize it wasn't about Soulstar.

I did and he was the one making the decision he pressed the button. The others helped him get there but he still haad to press the button. Nice assumtion though keep defending a person who basically stole the item.

 

[Tok]

there are people in this world who would stab their own friends in the back to get what they want

This game is no exception

fixed...

everyone on this game is forgetting that people irl will double cross you at the drop of a hat if it benefits them, integrity in this world is something found rarely, everyone is out for themselves and they don't give a flying fuck about you or what you want or your well being, to them, doing it in the game makes it easier cause you don't have to look at the people your walking over and in the same token, blacklisting them so that they don't exist to you in the game is a god send to them

i realize that the flameboard is used a lot to warn players about shady characters, but there will always be someone out there who either doesn't know about them or is willing to give them a second chance

ninja looting is a serious no no, it takes a lot to build trust over this game, but it doesnt take a lot to lose it, u really gotta weigh your options when considering doing something like this, and honestly, if you work at building a good rep with people, they will help you, you just have to be paitent

(disclaimer: i realize that some of you prolly arent fond of me, thats ok, but i stand by every single word i say, and have ever said)

 

[Quieren]

The leaders won't even post here anymore. They fucked me over, theres proof out the ass, they don't care, they deleted the thread on their forums to try and cover this up, they banned me so I can't stand up for myself on the forums.

Thats because they know they fucked up, and their ALMIGHTY SOCIAL LINKSHELL is the officailly the village idiot of socil linkshells. Let them hide their heads in the sand. Their linkshell's, leader's, and their qcdn.com rep is distroyed. The 2 leaders are just two other idiots that think because they lead one of the 50 billion sky/social linkshells that are created every other day makes them badass. Let them tell you 50 times that they don't want a serious end game shell because they like the "friendly atmosphere" of the social. Wrong, they like having control... They showed why people like them will never accomplish more then lolkirin. Sorry to read what happened to you, if you require help on aquiring a robe, I'd be more then happy to come out of my semi-retirement to assist you, andI'll pack some old friends to assist you.

-Q

 

[Falk]

As you can see, I don't post here at all. However, I feel like I should post this. It is copied and pasted from my blog.

First off, no I am not "defending" anyone, this is my opinion.

I wasn't going to say anything, but now you are fucking annoying me Myrrh. You are talking about how "everyone hate me in LS", "nobody trusts me in LS", when I think literally less than 7 people were on that night. It is crude and, to tell the truch, assbaggish that you would do that. So, *maybe* the LS had planned fucking you over all out. We *obviously* hate you so much that after we got the ToD we would just kick you. Reaallllyyyyy.

The fact that, just because Soul, someone with EQUAL job level as you, lotted and beat you, is pissing you off that much, is such a big letdown. The fact that you think that you can lot first because you brought a few friends from your other LS, doesn't mean we are going to lie down and say "okay". *(Although I am speaking in the voice of Zer I guess, as you and Soul had spoken in tells as you said earlier, I would not have known of the agreement.)You know, you are much alike to Zer and Xean, once you find a point, you can't admit that you are wrong, or the world will end.

Where do I believe the blame falls? Well, in this order.

Soul
Myrrh
Xean
Zer
Other members

Soul submitted to peer pressure. Which means, the entire thing could have been prevented by him not lotting. This does not mean I'll hate him forever, or even at all. I'm one to forgive and forget. And to answer someones suggestion for him earlier "drop the robe and that will be a little better". Um, no? If I bought 10m gil and a full set of HQ staves, and someone said "gilbuying sucks", rather two things would happen. Rather A) I would say "oh that's nice" and move on (isn't that what 95% of people who are flamed do anyway?). Or "wow, you're right, it sucks." Either way, I wouldn't drop the staves and waste my time and money. No, I do not have a set of HQ staves, thank you for asking.

Myrrh. What can I say about you. Keep in mind I put you above Xean and Zer, because really, you have just made this thing an entire fuck bag fest. Comparing this to chary is like comparing a muffin to a toaster. They are barely alike. Cgary, you have to wait a possible 16 HOURS to have him spawn, and then hope to get claim. You still have to hope to get claim, but Shikis window is not even 16 MINUTES. So it takes, what, maybe an hour for two or three days to get? You were the one who has made this a 58 page flame fest (well, Jyak too), off of somethng that could have just been said by saying: "Hey guys, help me tomorrow." If you think that a virtual ITEM is worth all of this yelling, you need to get your priorities checked.

Xean, burying your coffing. Just stop please. It was, however, VERY crude of you to say that Myrrh isn't trustworthy, after the things he has done for the LS. I think most of the times you weren't on, but that's what the thank you thread is for.

Zer, I do believe you didn't know of the agreement, since you weren't there (I think?), so I think agreeing with Xean was the right thing to do. It was nice to stand up for the LS, but really. Enough is enough. Let it die. :x Myrrh, when you have a fiance, you will understand this.

Other LS members, the <7 that were on then (can't find the SS in the thread. =/) show that maybe 10 people in the shell hate you, which isn't bad saying that I'm sure a lot of people don't like you because of your mouth. But there are still other people that don't hate you, hell, we even try to help. Stop being such a baby and stop saying all the LS hates you.

A few more things!

Why was I there yesterday? I was there to help. I said I would help you, Soul, and Ali get their YYR, and I keep my promises and honor my friends. I was not expecting an invite, but I'm a WHM, I don't need one. Funny story, I WSd and saw Shiki up, by the time I got to him it was dead. Lol. I actually plan to be there tomorrow (today I guess), to invite me or not is agin your choice.

Am I going to stay in the LS? Yes, because it is a great one. Just because three people in our linkshell are brash and five of them are fucktards doesn't mean everyone sucks. As a matter of fact, I will keep this shell with pride. I am not a coward that can be sucked in by Myrrh and Jyak's rant.

Also, stop saying "omg I love my linkshell they are so trustworthy." It's fucking annoying. Unless that post on our boards was a part of your plan to get Soul to lot and kill the LS to hell, it shows how much you trusted us then. And look at it now. Um yeah. Also, let's say 20 people were at Shiki. 10 weren't in Fury, and I bet 5 from Fury wouldn't have showed up if there wasn't a 58 page flame about it. So stop fucking being a kiss ass.

Let me end it with this story, that may or may not have something to do with anything. I have a "friend" that was invited to Zer and Xean's wedding. He, however, couldn't make it. Flash to 5 months later. He makes a few mistakes, and he leaves the shell. I don't think that they have talked since. The point of this is don't alienate people you have liked before, just because a few people fucked up.

Bye bye~


/wait for the incoming flames. /hide. Oh, and my sig is horribly out of date.

 

[Quieren]

So let me get this straight Falk...

You think its ok that this "non-linkshell event" that a fair amount of non-ls members attend gave them the right to dictate who had lotting rights? To even think you have a say who has lotting rights in a activity that you're having no perticipation in is so vain its not right... People before the mob was even claimed had a agreement who was lotting that, it was ninja lotting pure and simple, and you can't make excuses for that.

 

[Passions]

Looks like he's got plenty there since all the partied people are helping him.

22 people total were in allience/overflow counting myhhr. i had a fing blast out there with everyone and it was a even greater feeling that we got CLAIM! I'm going to try and be out there again tonight and i wanna see a full allience + over flow again!

Funny part was i was in overflow group and main allience and we were talking in overflow about how we were almost useless not having a rng in our group yet mish got claim! lol

 

[Skaw]

. Comparing this to chary is like comparing a muffin to a toaster. They are barely alike. Cgary, you have to wait a possible 16 HOURS to have him spawn, and then hope to get claim. You still have to hope to get claim, but Shikis window is not even 16 MINUTES. So it takes, what, maybe an hour for two or three days to get?

Yes, you're right. They aren't alike. In the sense that Charybdis can potentially spawn 3 times a day, and Shikigami Weapon once. As well as their drop rates differing greatly, with Joyeuse being far, far, far more common with that 100% drop rate. Windows do not matter.

 

[Skaw]

Just to expound on it:

In the average time it can take to recieve a single Yin Yang Robe a potential 15 Joyeuses can drop. Granted, in reality it's probably closer to 8, but thats still a lot more. As well, a large chunk of Joyeuses enter the game to be used as toys, not actual weapons, where as every YYR is useful around the clock.

 

[Canitoch]

It's a shame what happened to you Myrrh, and I thought imo that Zer was a respectable person. But I guess I was sadly wrong.

 

[Alyada]

Winklewil handed the defenders of Soulstar and Xean’s actions their collective asses last page, so I’m not really even going to comment on the entire situation because, well, it’s been said before and they’re going to feel the repercussions on their reputation for this for a long time. (holy run-on sentence batman)

Either way, it was so strange to see two people I respected be pulled through the mud like this and think the deserve it. I’m really sorry this happened to you Myrrh. You’re a good guy, really fun to dick around with, and you deserve better friends than this. I’d help you camp if I wasn’t on hiatus at the moment. Feel free to message me on MSN.

Xean, if you wanted to kick Myrrh long ago you can do so on principle. It’s not like a job where you have to have a good reason. Obviously, some of us just didn’t fit in with the rest of your GGG crowd. You’ve got a bunch of horny teenage boys who are going to make sexual comments because they’re… horny teenage boys. I always felt that it was strange how you and Zer ran the LS like a church service… but that’s your prerogative. If someone isn’t working out, boot them. Talk it over with them. Some times things don’t work out. Just don’t wait to backstab them later. That’s just harsh.

On kind of an unrelated note:
I’ve been running with the same central group of people since I started heavily into FFXI. These guys and gals have been behind me the entire way. I feel sorry for the amount of people that can’t or don’t cultivate these friendships. It’s come to the point where I will only run with these select number of people because of the fairness and trust they’ve given me and been given in return for the past years. When we run KSNMs or anything, everything is agreed upon before hand. We’ve never had an argument about lots, drops, or rights for an item before. I guess that’s mutual trust for you, and I guess that can’t be earned quickly… but it is a game and items don’t disappear forever. I’m just trying to say I’m glad I have such good friends after reading the shit-bacle that this turned into.

 

[Zephayra]

They deleted my thread on their ls site and banned me, they don't even want to try to fix this.

I retract my previous statements in this flame based on this evidence.

 

[Aaleel]

Soul
Myrrh
Xean
Zer
Other members

Everyone decided to give the robe to one person, how can that person in any way be responsible. Something was ninja lotted and an LS leader told a member to ninja lot another member. I'm sorry that goes past:

"Hey guys, help me tomorrow."

 

[Quieren]

Everyone decided to give the robe to one person, how can that person in any way be responsible. Something was ninja lotted and an LS leader told a member to ninja lot another member. I'm sorry that goes past:

Don't even try to understand their ls aaleel. They sound like a bunch of high school kidies running around having lol-e-sex and lolFF-Marriages. A bunch of rejects living with their parents, or in their 200 dollar a month appartments alone outside of FF. It is funny that zer has always tried to be some social giant on these boards telling others how to be, yet we find out she's no more then a common linkshell bully.

 

[Foros]

WOW...61 pages ...Finally done reading...

Well after reading all that, I have to say sorry Myrrh..that really sucks for you, and the culprits are completely in the wrong and seem unable to admit it.

If you guys want my help camping YYR I'm there, send me a /t ingame.

 

[Sneakypants]

You’ve got a bunch of horny teenage boys who are going to make sexual comments because they’re… horny teenage boys. I always felt that it was strange how you and Zer ran the LS like a church service… but that’s your prerogative. If someone isn’t working out, boot them. Talk it over with them. Some times things don’t work out. Just don’t wait to backstab them later. That’s just harsh.

ROFL @ church service.


Yeah, so, as much as the people/leaders in a social LS say they don't care about silly virtual items, they quite simply do. Eventually, people want somethng out of the game. This NM isn't "end game" and can be done with a social. It can even be soloed for fuck's sake. It's obvious enough that the leaders don't want to waste their time helping noobs out forever more. Why would they? They want to do something for themselves. That's understandable.

It's not understandable to run a linkshell in this way, not giving two shits to show up to an "event" and then having the audacity to try and dictate the outcome of that event...Especially when they believe it's ok for a member to ninja lot over another member they say they don't like. Even if it was strictly LS folks helping out, what the fuck did the leaders have to do with it? Not a damn thing. People in linkshells act on their own accord all the time. They do things without leadership. While LS chatter and the general rules of the LS still apply, when leaders of an LS don't have time for an event that involves only some of their members, they certainly don't have the right to offer up any sort of ruling on the matter.

This is fucking amazing. Myrrh, sorry this happened to you man. :/
I'm so not surprised though. Not to say these people are known to be assholes or anything, but the insanely righteous have been known to hold on to what they think above all else. I'd rather deal with an asshole leader, that is honest and gets shit done versus some righteous son of a bitch that apparently just waits to backstab people he doesn't like...Rather than simply boot them from the treehouse gang.


HAY! ANYONE OF U GUYZ KNOW HOW 2 CHANGE SERVERZ?!?!

 

[Aaleel]

I actually feel kind of sorry for the shell. There are a lot of people who seem to love it, and say they don't want to see their shell brought down by the actions of 2-3 people. Only problem with that leaders are included in that number.

Leaders are the face of the shell, plain and simple. And even with all the people defending their shell and the event in question. I haven't seen much to substantiate the things said about Myrrh. So it looks from the outside that a leader not only condoned a ninja lot against another member for personal issues with the person, they told another member to do it. After interjecting themself in a non 100% LS event that they weren't even in attendence at.

I think that's worse than the ninja lot itself personally. Condoning a ninja lot by a member to me compromises the integrity of the shell, and if a leader would run down, assume the worse, and tell someone to ninja lot current member how is new person on someone on the outside supposed to look at this.

Leaders are the face of a shell, and their actions in running, and dealing with issues make the shell what it is.

 

[jyakotsu]

bullshit.

Fuck you, i aint going to respond coherently. Fuck you