That was easy...TOO easy...

[Jeska]

Anyways, the point I'm driving at is this: Has this made things TOO easy? From what I understand, Promyvion is the exact same way in that you don't even need a party to beat them anymore. No anima, no setup, no items....

I understand this is kind of what Zilart is like, but I always felt that CoP is when everyone really refined their skills to beat the missions. When doing mammets really required focus, when promyvion was feared because the slightest screw up meant failure.

I'm not against the removal of level caps, but I was expecting the zones to be tweaked to still make it a challenge to succeed.

I really don't know how to put the feeling itself into words other than I feel like the new players are getting cheated out of the experiences we had (good and bad) and that endgame is getting cheated out of players who could have learned extremely valuable lessons in those missions had they still presented some form of difficulty.

Players dont want any challenge in the game anymore, they want top level in all the jobs, matts cap and all the toys available, and they want it asap cause they dont have all that time to grind there like everyone before had to....


Frankly its a sign of the times I think, and dont be suprised if the next FF game makes things easier and faster to get to satisfy the 'short attention span folk' that seem to want everything now. ^^

 

[Canitoch]

The way I see it is this:

The game is slowly coming to an end. I think SE is raising the level cap, getting rid of CoP level cap fights, no exp loss, etc, is for players to stay a bit longer when FF14 comes out.

The reason for making CoP so easy I think is because of the new mmo. A lot of people are going to switch over to 14, and for players who are looking to get CoP missions done, it would be really hard for them to get players to join if SE kept the level caps. Not enough players to play the game + CoP level cap challange = why bother?

Do I find it easy? Yes, I soloed the Promies at level 55 yesterday, but realistically, it needed to happen due to the future player major decrease.

 

[Zaltana]

Players dont want any challenge in the game anymore, they want top level in all the jobs, matts cap and all the toys available, and they want it asap cause they dont have all that time to grind there like everyone before had to....


Frankly its a sign of the times I think, and dont be suprised if the next FF game makes things easier and faster to get to satisfy the 'short attention span folk' that seem to want everything now. ^^

and they want it yesterday. i'm reminded of a thread about people wondering how long it'll take before the epeen race begins in 14.

 

[Zaltana]

Base stats are literally half as useful as derived stats. RNG is like the only job (unless you count pulling BRD...) that genuinely benefits from Osode at all, and even then there are better, easier-to-obtain body pieces for all situations.

i full timed mine.

It's not really a poison, the problem is that Osode takes a shitload of work to obtain when there are enormously easier to obtain pieces that do a better job... and even back in the day when the only other options were expensive to purchase, it was really sad seeing someone wear an Osode over say a Hauberk when it's not hard to SELL THE OSODE AND BUY A DAMN HAUBERK. and still have gil left over. kthx

There is almost always something better to use. That doesnt make other said item useless.

 

[Alereth]

Players dont want any challenge in the game anymore, they want top level in all the jobs, matts cap and all the toys available, and they want it asap cause they dont have all that time to grind there like everyone before had to....


Frankly its a sign of the times I think, and dont be suprised if the next FF game makes things easier and faster to get to satisfy the 'short attention span folk' that seem to want everything now. ^^

Isn't this what set FFXI and WoW apart? FFXI required some dedication and heavy effort to earn good stuff while WoW is throwing around epic gear for relatively minimal effort.

 

[Alereth]

Correction to my above:

ALOT of things set FFXI and WoW apart. I'm just saying that was one of them lol.

 

[Karihkinz]

Is posting on this flame board going to change anything? Not really. We're we already aware that COP would be made easy? Pretty sure we were. Has this been spoken about already on other posts and people are saying the exact same thing? Mmm, yea looks like it. COP is easy, who gives a shit. As Tag said, the ring will be useless soon anyway, so why not let people see the story for themselves?

I think you're forgetting an important factor as well. You still need to treat it seriously from Tenzen and up, since those weren't changed. Why complain that people can now progress further into the story before they have to tough it out rather than all the way through? You can't solo Tenzen, you can't solo the tower climb, you can't solo Promothia. You need a full group for all and a competent one. Or are we only focusing on the points that validate the complaint?

You all sound like a bunch of old farts sitting in an old folks home crying about how you used to walk 15 miles up hill both ways in a blizzard to get to school while your grandchildren have to walk on even ground 1 block to school! Sheesh. Lol~

Same thing goes for the general attitude that people are lazy and want things now. While this may be true for a lot of people, is this true for everyone? No, they aren't lazy. They want to enjoy a goddamn VIDEO. GAME. without devoting every free hour of every day, sacrificing time with loved ones or friends, and letting their work/school work fall behind to see progress. FFXIV creators have already said they wanted to make sure that people could log on and accomplish a lot in a small amount of time so that they don't see the same issue we have with FFXI, where even running somewhere is a huge time sink. I'm sure that some will bitch about that too, but that's just a facade. You'll really enjoy it like everyone else.

 

[Lukas]

Screw CoP. Screw it. I worked my arse off to get those missions done, in my timezone, when everybody and their dog had already finished and no one wanted to go around a second time. I appreciate challenging gameplay, but a lot of it was just damn tedious and based on luck.... unless the planets aligned and granted you a reliable static.

Does finishing CoP make you a great player? Not necessarily. It makes you a fortunate one, with ample time and access to a lot of help. I don't know why people are mourning a loss here - it's over you've finished, you have wonderful memories, great! Now maybe instead of wishing friends and stragglers suffer as much as you did with the missions as some strange rite of passage, you can help them out - because hey it's not a huge hassle anymore and you can probably rip it up with your SAM or something. Then everyone can enjoy the content they paid for and frolic in sea together.

If the challenge is that important to anyone, there's always the level-sync feature. Hey! Maybe some of those people who are super bummed about CoP being too easy now can do the missions again synced at level 10! It'll be even more fun and challenging!

 

[Romper]

Players dont want any challenge in the game anymore, they want top level in all the jobs, matts cap and all the toys available, and they want it asap cause they dont have all that time to grind there like everyone before had to....


Frankly its a sign of the times I think, and dont be suprised if the next FF game makes things easier and faster to get to satisfy the 'short attention span folk' that seem to want everything now. ^^

http://www.destructoid.com/final-fantasy-xi-boss-causes-vomiting-takes-18-hours-to-beat-99391.phtml

Nothing, in any game, should take that long to kill. Should it be challenging? Yes. Should it be impossible to kill like AV was for SO long? No.

 

[Myrrh]

http://www.destructoid.com/final-fantasy-xi-boss-causes-vomiting-takes-18-hours-to-beat-99391.phtml

Nothing, in any game, should take that long to kill. Should it be challenging? Yes. Should it be impossible to kill like AV was for SO long? No.

The funny thing is that there was a group years ago who spent like 72+ solid hours fighting AV trying to kill it. People were exping to get lvls back while others were holding AV. Shit was epic and it never got bad press.

 

[Romper]

Isn't this what set FFXI and WoW apart? FFXI required some dedication and heavy effort to earn good stuff while WoW is throwing around epic gear for relatively minimal effort.

Ok well true that WoW gives away epics relatively easily; they had to. Otherwise in The Burning Crusade it had a similar effect to CoP. If you didn't have the current raid content done NO ONE ran tier 5 (SSC/The Eye if you don't know). So you were stuck in tier 4 or you were raiding tier 6. They wanted more people to be able to do more current content. If they didn't people would still be running 10/25 naxx, eoe, os, and Archavon for loot; While no one does Ulduar or ToC for loot. Then the long time raiders running icc. Do I think the buff in ICC10/25 is bs? Yep. Should it have ever been implemented? IMO no. Do I wish more people turned it off? Yep.

 

[Tagrineth]

The funny thing is that there was a group years ago who spent like 72+ solid hours fighting AV trying to kill it. People were exping to get lvls back while others were holding AV. Shit was epic and it never got bad press.

The bad press was from SE coming out and saying point blank that they expected players to sit there fighting AV for 18 hours, on average, to win.

The epic 72+ hour marathon battle from the first groups to attempt him had absolutely no idea what the trick was to beating him, so everyone knew the insane aggregate fight time was much longer than it should have been.

 

[Guesswho]

The way I see it is this:

The game is slowly coming to an end. I think SE is raising the level cap, getting rid of CoP level cap fights, no exp loss, etc, is for players to stay a bit longer when FF14 comes out.

The reason for making CoP so easy I think is because of the new mmo. A lot of people are going to switch over to 14, and for players who are looking to get CoP missions done, it would be really hard for them to get players to join if SE kept the level caps. Not enough players to play the game + CoP level cap challange = why bother?

Do I find it easy? Yes, I soloed the Promies at level 55 yesterday, but realistically, it needed to happen due to the future player major decrease.

I fully agree with this.

 

[etchdog2000]

Screw CoP. Screw it. I worked my arse off to get those missions done, in my timezone, when everybody and their dog had already finished and no one wanted to go around a second time. I appreciate challenging gameplay, but a lot of it was just damn tedious and based on luck.... unless the planets aligned and granted you a reliable static.

Does finishing CoP make you a great player? Not necessarily. It makes you a fortunate one, with ample time and access to a lot of help. I don't know why people are mourning a loss here - it's over you've finished, you have wonderful memories, great! Now maybe instead of wishing friends and stragglers suffer as much as you did with the missions as some strange rite of passage, you can help them out - because hey it's not a huge hassle anymore and you can probably rip it up with your SAM or something. Then everyone can enjoy the content they paid for and frolic in sea together.

If the challenge is that important to anyone, there's always the level-sync feature. Hey! Maybe some of those people who are super bummed about CoP being too easy now can do the missions again synced at level 10! It'll be even more fun and challenging!

I dont think people are saying "You should have to endure the same pain we did". I know I wasnt. I just think CoP was the 1 thing that was done right in this game, done better then the rest. SE gimping it like they did was the logical thing to do. I dont doubt for a minute that doing CoP 2 months ago would be the biggest pain in the ass. They did what they had to do to appease the user base.

5 years ago, anyone could find a group, but you could only win CoP missions if you worked together and had a plan. Thats the biggest problem with the current user base. Most people suck at thier jobs and dont know how to work in a party or accomplish difficult tasks (Like the old CoP Missions). Thats why I stay in my little group and do stuff. But thats another discussion for another day.

 

[Jeska]

Is posting on this flame board going to change anything? Not really. We're we already aware that COP would be made easy? Pretty sure we were. Has this been spoken about already on other posts and people are saying the exact same thing? Mmm, yea looks like it. COP is easy, who gives a shit. As Tag said, the ring will be useless soon anyway, so why not let people see the story for themselves?

We give a shit thats why we are posting here, and its not just the ring its access to sea and limbus thats a big part of the reward to finishing cop.

I think you're forgetting an important factor as well. You still need to treat it seriously from Tenzen and up, since those weren't changed. Why complain that people can now progress further into the story before they have to tough it out rather than all the way through? You can't solo Tenzen, you can't solo the tower climb, you can't solo Promothia. You need a full group for all and a competent one. Or are we only focusing on the points that validate the complaint?

You all sound like a bunch of old farts sitting in an old folks home crying about how you used to walk 15 miles up hill both ways in a blizzard to get to school while your grandchildren have to walk on even ground 1 block to school! Sheesh. Lol~

Nah its more like my grandkids are staying at home getting spoon fed schoolwork with a hi-tech teaching aid by them to actually do all the work while they play some other video game....

Same thing goes for the general attitude that people are lazy and want things now. While this may be true for a lot of people, is this true for everyone? No, they aren't lazy. They want to enjoy a goddamn VIDEO. GAME. without devoting every free hour of every day, sacrificing time with loved ones or friends, and letting their work/school work fall behind to see progress. FFXIV creators have already said they wanted to make sure that people could log on and accomplish a lot in a small amount of time so that they don't see the same issue we have with FFXI, where even running somewhere is a huge time sink. I'm sure that some will bitch about that too, but that's just a facade. You'll really enjoy it like everyone else.

Fine then go play a VIDEO game not a RPG that requires some effort and dedication and time, would you play a football game having no knowledge whatsoever about the sport, just want to be the best at the game cause you see others trying hard and having fun there?

 

[Raesvelg]

Good lord...

CoP wasn't that hard, people. It's not the defining event that marks your transition into FFXI adulthood. There's nothing you can learn in CoP that you can't learn elsewhere, and it most certainly does not separate the good from the bad.

About the only thing that ever arose out of CoP were the handful of generous people who were willing to do it more than once, and the vast majority who completed the missions and said "Fuck that, I'm never touching those damn things again".

It's a set of missions. A set of missions that are more challenging than some of the other missions, but not epic life-defining events. You can complete CoP and still suck ass at the game; I've known quite a few who I generally considered to be sub-par that had their CoP rings. Completion of CoP is not some sort of graduation into the realms of the elite; it's a sign that you either got it done early, or found people to help you get it done.

THAT'S IT.

 

[etchdog2000]

Good lord...

CoP wasn't that hard, people. It's not the defining event that marks your transition into FFXI adulthood. There's nothing you can learn in CoP that you can't learn elsewhere, and it most certainly does not separate the good from the bad.

About the only thing that ever arose out of CoP were the handful of generous people who were willing to do it more than once, and the vast majority who completed the missions and said "Fuck that, I'm never touching those damn things again".

It's a set of missions. A set of missions that are more challenging than some of the other missions, but not epic life-defining events. You can complete CoP and still suck ass at the game; I've known quite a few who I generally considered to be sub-par that had their CoP rings. Completion of CoP is not some sort of graduation into the realms of the elite; it's a sign that you either got it done early, or found people to help you get it done.

THAT'S IT.

I guess Ill agree to disagree. 4-5 years ago, no gimp had CoP done, at least I didnt know any, mainly because to beat those missions you had to toss millions of gil at it for meds. We had to fight Ultima/Omega 3 times. Thats a total of 18 CCBs. Farming those chips were plain horrible. At the time they were over 300k a piece, so what 4.8mill to get 1 fight done? There was a guy on the Thief forum that wont pay 600k for one of the best knifes in the game, tell me that they would pony up the gil for that or spend 2-3 weeks farming chips (assuming they didnt 1/1 the fight) for mission progression. Granted I bought all the meds I could but I remember my count of how much I spent to get through CoP at the time was over 4mil and that was just me.

CoP was hard to do with group of people that knew what they were doing. It wasnt like it is today where everyone has a gazillion jobs at 75. Of course eventually more and more people got CoP done as time went on, but it really was a defining set of tasks. If ya had CoP done, you were probably an all right player. But none of this has been said that I didnt say in my other post so I will leave it at that.

Anyways, thats just my opinion.

 

[Raesvelg]

There's a difference between being good, and having gil. I know several people that were frankly terrible at their jobs who managed to limp through CoP before I did, carried on the backs of their friends who didn't suck. The missions weren't so incredibly difficult that a single mistake would doom your entire attempt. You just had to be competent at following a plan, not the second coming of Raptor Jesus. And having a bit of dead weight around wasn't an instant death sentence either.

And, let's also be honest, when the fights cost that much, we were also looking at inflation at a factor of about 6 relative to today. And you only had to toss millions of gil at it in those days if you took multiple tries.

Which I didn't.

GogoPLDonry.

 

[etchdog2000]

Yeh sure there was hella inflation, not as bad as it was in its worst but yeh things were definately more expensive. But the my point is, gimp people alot of the time means cheap people, not all the time but alot of the time. Some of those fights if you didnt have meds to fall back on they were really difficult fights. When I was trying to do pick up CoP I had people refuse to buy Reraise earrings/gorgets.

And for the record. I leveled PLD to 60 specifically for beating CoP missions. We used PLD in a good bit of the fights. I even let Motley's/Cmdrfly's group use my PLD for a fight because they were having a party configuration problem. CoP days were my Galka PLD glory days.

So I thought PLD was pretty useful for alot of those fights.

 

[Divinius]

You can complete CoP and still suck ass at the game

This... dear god, this. I've known far too many people that completed the whole thing, have their Apoc Nigh earrings and everything, that are total, 100%, incompetent morons. They only got through it because they had a few friends that weren't incompetent morons.

Seriously, I'm so sick of hearing people bitch about the fact that SE made these missions easier, like they somehow took a "test of awesomeness" out of the game. CoP wasn't a test of awesomeness, it was a test of patience. And before you say anything, yes, I completed it and had Sea access well before the nerfs (on TWO characters, no less), and yes, I'm still thrilled that they made them a joke now. Why? Because my other friends that either started late in the game, or that don't live, eat, and breathe FFXI and couldn't commit to static parties with non-morons, can now join the rest of us for things like Limbus, and even the little things that require some CoP completion, like being able to get a Soboro or the Diabolos summon.

Honestly, anyone that didn't have CoP complete by this point most likely wasn't going to get it done otherwise. SE realized this and did the right thing. I'm really sorry to all the people that are butt-hurt about their "prize" being rendered insignificant now (though I got news for you, it never was significant in the way you think), but shut up, quit being selfish, and let the rest of the players enjoy the storyline that they would not have been able to see otherwise.