the new tank

[Xalioniaf]

 

[Tristam Green]

Didn't get to post this at work, but if you're going to go big, go with some style.

I mean, it gives MORE STR and a buff to DEX! It means more critical damage, so more hate generated, amirite?


































(as blabj would say, the above was entirely sarcasm).

 

[Caerloc]

I cant even believe people on this server still doubt rdm's ability to tank.

 

[Neisan]

Exp =! Endgame. Read closer next time.

 

[Caerloc]

Exp =! Endgame. Read closer next time.

I've never seen anyone pull hate with dispel, even when spamming it; where was this report on spell enmity?

I didn't say it didn't either. I said it was stated by the person people were pulling the whole "RDMs can tank with dispel hate lol" livejournal posts from.

These 2 are just doubting rdm tanking period, endgame or exp.

No, but you said they could be with the right changes; otherwise if they're not going to be nearly as good, there's no reason to actually give them tanking features. Your entire reasoning of why RDM might be a good tank is dependent on making big changes to the job; give it hate gaining abilities, give it hate gaining spells, give it better gear for tanking. If you have to make that many changes to make it a decent tank: the job can't tank. Get over it, RDM is not the uber-job that can do everything well; accept your role as a support job and stop trying to PUSH to move up to the front lines. The job change function is there for a reason, use it.

Warrior can tank just fine now; the only reason most people don't use them is because most warriors are retards who "unlearned" provoke. Their gear options are fine, since they get most of the gear that both PLD and NIN wears for tanking, on top of their relic/AF which has some nice enmity on it.

This one says rdm cant tank, while wars can do it with relic. So i have to assume this is about rdm tanking in endgame.

Similar to red mage, spamming Dispel wouldn't be enough to hold hate when you have anyone doing damage on the mob. You still have nothing to effectively hold hate, if you rely on spells you'll blow through your MP really fast so you wouldn't last in a sustained fight.


Stop trying to make RDM the uber-job. They're worthless tanks right now due to their lack of effective hate tools(spamming dispel wouldn't work) and they have no effective gear for tanking that other jobs wouldn't put to 10x better use.

This is talking about sustained fights. Where except engame are the fights sustained?

 

[Neisan]

In regards to RDM, what it seriously lacks at the moment is *fast* hate generation. It's good for long term hate generation such as HNMs, but it doesn't have sufficiently fast hate generation for most - much much *shorter* - fights. Could also use a bit of a boost to survivability and non sub-dependent damage mitigation. Blink and Stoneskin have a bit too long cast/recast (and too limited effect) to qualify.

Thanks for not giving credit to Vil. We weren't discussing Rdm tanking endgame in the first place, and I'll give you the sustained fight comment for now. And no, baja mentioned War AF AND Relic. War also gets access to the lvl 50 JSE armor from CoP (although it's arguably better for pld).

 

[Caerloc]

The first 2 comments are pretty much saying that dispel cant pull hate, period.

And he's still mentioning relic in the same breath he's saying rdm cant tank.

As far as villarel is concerned, i didnt say i couldnt believe only 1 person thinks rdm cant tank. I was surprised there was even 1 person who doesnt think rdm can tank.

 

[Makelith]

Oh noes! You're obviously the tough shit now for calling me out on a mistake, eh?

Ventriloquy? It's gotta suck when I know more about your job than you :/

Hi. (letters)

 

[Neisan]

Baja's comment was an opinion. Baja clearly stated they'd never seen it happen, not that it couldn't. They even asked for confirmation of the info that it did.

Skaw... is being Skaw.

 

[hellstorm]

Didn't get to post this at work, but if you're going to go big, go with some style.

I mean, it gives MORE STR and a buff to DEX! It means more critical damage, so more hate generated, amirite?
.

actually I was going for def and int on it the str just a by product, your above is a dd body not a tank body, but thanks for the sarcasm. The goal is tank like a pld, gain hate like a ninja.

 

[Marajade]

actually I was going for def and int on it the str just a by product, your above is a dd body not a tank body, but thanks for the sarcasm. The goal is tank like a pld, gain hate like a ninja.

Facepalm.jpg

 

[Begen]

i would assume warrior would be best suited for the tanking position, their af has tonnes of enmity + and can be used well for tanking if geared right

 

[Bajaratt]

actually I was going for def and int on it the str just a by product, your above is a dd body not a tank body, but thanks for the sarcasm. The goal is tank like a pld, gain hate like a ninja.

You referenced a Jujitsu Gi, and that's a DD body, not a tanking body. At that level, ninja is spinning the wheel, they're not meleeing, so they don't wear jujitsu gi's.

 

[Skaw]

The first 2 comments are pretty much saying that dispel cant pull hate, period.

And RDM tanking is pretty worthless on most things because of the time required for dispel hate to build.

Quit fucking reading too deep in to things. Any job can tank if you give them the time to build sufficient hate, thats not the question. The question is if the time is better spent doing so, versus using a Ninja, Paladin, or Warrior. And literally any instance you can tell me that a RDM can tank, I'm going to bet the answer is no.

Sure, it's a good alternative if you literally have nothing better. But if your job disparity for your linkshell members sucks that bad that you'll have no one on the better option, perhaps the HNM scene isn't for you. Or you're a manaburn shell.

 

[Tristam Green]

actually I was going for def and int on it the str just a by product, your above is a dd body not a tank body, but thanks for the sarcasm. The goal is tank like a pld, gain hate like a ninja.

I thought the goal was "gain hate and tank like hellstorm, drop sum g8rs like Necrosis"? Maybe I was mistaken.

Either way, mg: at wanting to be like another job. If you want to gain hate like a Ninja, LEVEL NINJA. If you want to tank like a Paladin, LEVEL PALADIN.

Problem solved, next problem please; thank you, piss off.

Sorry hells, but you opened it up when you started posting pictures of piss-poor tanking gear.

 

[Uzor]

RDM and WHM can both keep hate. The good thing about these jobs, is that they have lots of low-recast low-MP spells that give a lot of hate. It also gives better hate then Provoke, since Provoke's hate wears off, which it doesn't from spells like Dispel.

Bar-ra spells gives a lot of hate if it hits 5 people, making WHM's good at taking hate and keeping it. Additionally, DM's have nice spells like Dispel, sleep, Sleep II, Poison, Poison II and Bind. All good spells for taking hate and keeping it. All you need is /NIN sub to prevent damage.

Also, Stoneskin gives decent hate. But overall, the other spells give better hate due to the cast time and recast time.

HOWEVER, they can't tank worth shit in events like Dynamis, where you need to build hate fast. In events such as Tiamat, Jomungand, Jailer of Love etc. where its all about keeping hate in the long-run, RDM is actually a very good tank. especially due to self-haste and Fast Cast for Utsusemi, and Refresh + Convert for keeping MP high to keep hate. And also for Magic Defense Bonus to reduce the damage taken from magical attacks.

And no, hell. You got it a bit reversed. The goal is to tank it like a ninja, gain hate like a PLD.

 

[Caerloc]

And RDM tanking is pretty worthless on most things because of the time required for dispel hate to build.

Quit fucking reading too deep in to things. Any job can tank if you give them the time to build sufficient hate, thats not the question. The question is if the time is better spent doing so, versus using a Ninja, Paladin, or Warrior. And literally any instance you can tell me that a RDM can tank, I'm going to bet the answer is no.

Sure, it's a good alternative if you literally have nothing better. But if your job disparity for your linkshell members sucks that bad that you'll have no one on the better option, perhaps the HNM scene isn't for you. Or you're a manaburn shell.

Wow... Skaw telling me HNM scene isnt for me.. Thats just rich.. Lemme ask you skaw. How many Tiamats have you killed? Cerberus? Khimaira? Fuck, how many aspid, nidhoggs or Kb's? Do you have any experience whatsoever from the HNM scene or are you just talking out your ass?

It takes me about 45 seconds to 1 minute to build stable hate. I really dont fuckin get how you think im gonna stick to only dispel. RDM arsenal includes bind, blind, dispel, sleep, sleep II, Cure III, Cure IV. I can literally cast non-stop, and mp isnt an issue, these are cheap spells with high enmity gain. If i do spend alot of mp on cures, i have convert wich gives me both new chances to hate and more mp. The fact of the matter is that since brd was nerfed, rdm builds the highest and most stable hate ingame. On top of that we have fast cast. It might not turn ichi into a ni, but it isnt far off. And to top it off still, we get a nice good chunk of magic defense bonus for free. And with your vast experience from the HNM scene, i guess you know that the majority of damage you take in any HNM fight now is survey says, thats right, magic damage.


But really skaw, if my experience isnt enough for you, i suggest you run over to BG. Make a post and say you dont think rdm is a good tank, for the reason you've stated. Im pretty sure ill hear the laughs all the way to sweden. You're just clueless.

 

[jamal]

As far as villarel is concerned, i didnt say i couldnt believe only 1 person thinks rdm cant tank. I was surprised there was even 1 person who doesnt think rdm can tank.

Fail
gto

 

[jamal]

Wow... Skaw telling me HNM scene isnt for me.. Thats just rich.. Lemme ask you skaw. How many Tiamats have you killed? Cerberus? Khimaira? Fuck, how many aspid, nidhoggs or Kb's? Do you have any experience whatsoever from the HNM scene or are you just talking out your ass?

It takes me about 45 seconds to 1 minute to build stable hate. I really dont fuckin get how you think im gonna stick to only dispel. RDM arsenal includes bind, blind, dispel, sleep, sleep II, Cure III, Cure IV. I can literally cast non-stop, and mp isnt an issue, these are cheap spells with high enmity gain. If i do spend alot of mp on cures, i have convert wich gives me both new chances to hate and more mp. The fact of the matter is that since brd was nerfed, rdm builds the highest and most stable hate ingame. On top of that we have fast cast. It might not turn ichi into a ni, but it isnt far off. And to top it off still, we get a nice good chunk of magic defense bonus for free. And with your vast experience from the HNM scene, i guess you know that the majority of damage you take in any HNM fight now is survey says, thats right, magic damage.


But really skaw, if my experience isnt enough for you, i suggest you run over to BG. Make a post and say you dont think rdm is a good tank, for the reason you've stated. Im pretty sure ill hear the laughs all the way to sweden. You're just clueless.

Tanking in an experience environment. This thread is "The New Tank". Not the new endgame tank. All replies should be thinking with the OP in mind. I'll laugh that all the way to sweden.
45seconds to 1min in an exp. party and your party is DEAD. Seriously, shut the fuck up. And guess what, I could answer your HNM questions. I've tanked more than you and haven't done one in over a year. WAR / PLD / NIN ALL accumulate hate faster than RDM, which is what Skaw said. Any job properly outfitted can tank an HNM. BRD's tanked Fafnir / Nid for crying out loud. A WHM/RDM 'could' tank an HNM, they have access to the EXACT same spells. Just because you 'can' do it because its been done before doesn't make it a tanking job.
A tanking job is a viable tank THROUGHOUT the gaming process.

 

[Darby]

Hmm
I wouldnt want to tank as a war. It seems you would have to sacrafice the DD aspect of the job to tank. As far as I can tell War makes a much happier DD.

I would guess SAM

When me and Amz duo for fun/farming w/ Her [75SAM] She almost always tanks, And does a fine job
Tho I know farming is different from EXP and Endgame tanking, I think SAM shows potential as a tank.

And I tanked thru the dunes on SAM XD