The real America! 9/11 and all. The thread you've been waiting for.

[Doctork]

you forgot the history channel documentary where the guy admitted he was told to demolish one of the buildings, then was fired and has disappeared since then.
or the recetn rumsfeld speech where he says flight 93 was shot down.

Do you have ANY idea how long it takes to prep a building the size of ONE of the towers for demolition?

Ot takes literally WEEKS and I doubt they could carry that out without rasing a LOT of eyebrows. I can safely say the more than one person sure as hell would have questioned the massive effort taking place for no good reason, by people the no one in the building knew.....

This assertion is utter nonsense and insulting, actually.

 

[Bustaballs]

Anything about 9/11 should just be omitted from this thread, we already have one for that one, even though it drifted toward michael moore.

It has died out. It's been way off topic for a while. Also, this thread isn't just about 9/11.

Also, comparing anything to Nazis is unacceptable. No matter what the comparison is. People hear the word Nazi and all they hear is a million jews screaming in pain. Noone cares to think about that at and that completely overshadows the other lies told/attrocites commited by Nazi Germany.

As compared to thousands of Iraqis screaming in pain or thousands of Panamanians scream in pain? I could continue that for a long time. Watch this movie:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3453261789658676035

I was under the impression that it was wodely known that we let pearl harbor happen, and even forced it to happen in a way.

Hurricane Katrina was NOT Bush's fault. It was a natural disaster. A city built below sea level got flooded. Not suprising. More could have been done to save lives. If you need blame, it lies on the shoulders of Mike Brown. Who was appointed by Bush. Which, arugablly makes it bush's fault for appointing someone that had a background that little prepared him for a disaster like Hurricane Katrina, but not Directly.
Samantics ftw.

Perhaps he wasn't directly to blame. Suppose the many eyewitnesses that saw the levees being blown up all lied or took what they actually saw out of context. I'll ignore all that and say it's false. Let's just look at these things taken from my resources you obviously didn't look at.

A newly leaked video recording of high-level government deliberations the day before Hurricane Katrina hit shows disaster officials emphatically warning President Bush that the storm posed a catastrophic threat to New Orleans and the Gulf Coast, and a grim-faced Bush personally assuring state leaders that his administration was "fully prepared" to help. [Washington Post, 3/2/2006]

Ah.. this is where I read the FEMA thing.

Before 9/11 the Federal Emergency Management Agency listed the three most likely catastrophic disasters facing America: a terrorist attack on New York, a major earthquake in San Francisco and a hurricane strike on New Orleans. "The New Orleans hurricane scenario," The Houston Chronicle wrote in December 2001, "may be the deadliest of all."

In 2001, the New Orleans district spent $147 million on construction projects. When fiscal year 2005 wraps up Sept. 30, the Corps expects to have spent $82 million, a 44.2 percent reduction from 2001 expenditures. ... Unfunded projects include widening drainage canals, flood-proofing bridges and building pumping stations in Orleans and Jefferson parishes. The Corps also wants to build levees in unprotected areas on the West Bank.

In fiscal year 2006, the New Orleans district of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers is bracing for a record $71.2 million reduction in federal funding. It would be the largest single-year funding loss ever for the New Orleans district, Corps officials said. ... The cuts mean major hurricane and flood protection projects will not be awarded to local engineering firms. Also, a study to determine ways to protect the region from a Category 5 hurricane has been shelved for now.

“But perhaps the greatest disappointment stands at the breached 17th Street levee. Touring this critical site yesterday with the President, I saw what I believed to be a real and significant effort to get a handle on a major cause of this catastrophe. Flying over this critical spot again this morning, less than 24 hours later, it became apparent that yesterday we witnessed a hastily prepared stage set for a Presidential photo opportunity; and the desperately needed resources we saw were this morning reduced to a single, lonely piece of equipment. The good and decent people of southeast Louisiana and the Gulf Coast -- black and white, rich and poor, young and old -- deserve far better from their national government" - LA Senator Mary Landrieu [senate.gov]

"The guy who runs this building I’m in, Emergency Management, he’s responsible for everything. His mother was trapped in St. Bernard nursing home and every day she called him and said, “Are you coming, son? Is somebody coming?” and he said, “Yeah, Mama, somebody’s coming to get you.”
Somebody’s coming to get you on Tuesday.

Somebody’s coming to get you on Wednesday.

Somebody’s coming to get you on Thursday.

Somebody’s coming to get you on Friday… and she drowned Friday night. She drowned Friday night! [Sobbing]

Nobody’s coming to get us. Nobody’s coming to get us. The Secretary has promised. Everybody’s promised. They’ve had press conferences. I’m sick of the press conferences. For god’s sakes, just shut up and send us somebody." [MSNBC]

The president told us that we needed to fight in Iraq to save lives here at home, and yet -- after moving billions of domestic dollars to the Persian Gulf -- there are bodies floating through the streets of Louisiana. What does George W. Bush have to say for himself now?

A sign against US President George W. Bush and the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) is hung in front of a house in the Algiers neighborhood of New Orleans, three weeks after Hurricane Katrina hit the city.

Top federal and local relief officials were to hold a summit in a bid to iron out their dispute over whether it is safe for thousands of New Orleans residents to return to their hurricane-battered city(AFP/Omar Torres)

[Yahoo News 9/19/05]

Is that enough for you or should I continue? Their budget funding keeps getting cut more and more. Very little was done to help the people in New Orleans. Security measures can't be taken to fortify the levees to prevent any major catastrophys but they can destroy the Bill of Rights for "security"?

Funding can't be put into fixing up natural attacks in our own home but hundreds of billions of dollars can be put into a fake war on terrorism that started (according to the official sotry) based on a conspiracy theory? What about when this earthquake happens? Will nothing be done then as well?

Voting them into office gives them permission. I just think they should have at least read it first. The patriot act is the fastest way this administration could have wasted the unity of this country that we saw after 9/11. There for a while, we weren't Republican/conservative or Democrat/Liberal, we were Americans. We were pissed. We wanted [read: want] osamas head on a pike.

Do you really think Bush was actually voted into office?

Try to pull one topic from all this and concentrate on it or we'll all be posting essays that only 3 or 4 of us will even bother reading.

Well the information is all there. I've gone through what I've put in this post alone in a days time. I understand not everyone has all the free time in the world to read up on this but I catagorized it and the facts are there. If you decide not to look at them then I feel you don't have a proper excuse for arguement.

 

[Bustaballs]

Guys, it's all true. I was working with the CIA on the WTC demolitions project. I was present while placing all of the charges! I even directed one of the crews on the 31st floor placing them. The government won't acknowledge I exist, though. Hopefully they won't find out I posted this or I may just disappear...

You know, because my one "eyewitness account" must be fact.

If it was only one eyewitness then it wouldn't be a big deal. The fact is there were tons and tons of eyewitnesses that were completely ignored by the government AND the mainstream media and still are.

 

[alanon]

If it was only one eyewitness then it wouldn't be a big deal. The fact is there were tons and tons of eyewitnesses that were completely ignored by the government AND the mainstream media and still are.

There many more countless witnesses that saw things exactly as the report said they happened? Conspiracy cronies always seem to forget those and choose to focus on the 1% of accounts that support thier theories. Not to throw your own "logic" back at you or anything......

 

[Bustaballs]

you forgot the history channel documentary where the guy admitted he was told to demolish one of the buildings, then was fired and has disappeared since then.
or the recetn rumsfeld speech where he says flight 93 was shot down.

I assumed that the only person told to demolish any of the buildings was Silverstein admitting it on PBS. Also, I haven't seen that speech.

There is just too much evidence and proof for me to find and look at all at once.

I only mentioned the resources that I've been archiving for a few days. I've actually been at this research almost non-stop and everyday since before my original thread here.

Please provide me with resources so I may add them to the list and my future website. I'm going to try my best to provide everything I can onto the site.

 

[Doctork]

I went through your "Debunks"

http://www.tpmcafe.com/node/29150

As with the previously posted site (and most other conspiracy sites for that matter) it relies on being vague and attacking very minor points



That's it's big sticking point? They diverted jets and combat patrols 462 times? Notice how it never says for what purpose? It could be an escort or as simple as a sick pilot or adverse weather, hardly shoots down PM's statement of the number of times flights were diverted for a specific purpose.



Another attempt at a "debunk". Could it be that a "short time" could mean 82 mins? Hmmmmm.



Are you shitting me? Well there's a fucking brilliant idea! Let's "nudge" the plane so that it can hit something else instead, and throw in a now out of control fighter jet while we're at it!


I'll read the other links later.

Further information on this "debunk" bullshit.

Funny how the NTSB's accident report of the Payne Stewart incident "fails" to mention the "phantom" F-15 out of FL, as well. I'm SURE that's only because they obverlooked it, right? In fact the NTSB mentions SPECIFICALLY that ONE F-16 (on a training flight) was vectored to check out the situation approximately 1 hour and 22 minutes after contact with N47BA was lost. There was no pair of F-16s sent, although TWO F-16 were on stand-by later, incase the plane were to head for a heavily populated area and it became necessary to shoot them down. These planes were NEVER scrambled, however and NEVER tracked squat.

Links below, but beware, they're from the GUBMENT! You might fall victem to their evil mind-control devices!

http://www.airsafe.com/stewart.htm
http://www.ntsb.gov/Publictn/2000/AAB0001.htm
http://www.ntsb.gov/Publictn/2000/AAB0001.htm

Somehow I believe the NTSB over some site that "debunks" PM with information that is completely inaccurate.

:shok:

 

[Bustaballs]

There many more countless witnesses that saw things exactly as the report said they happened? Conspiracy cronies always seem to forget those and choose to focus on the 1% of accounts that support thier theories. Not to throw your own "logic" back at you or anything......

Like what and who? Also, were any of them denied their right to speak on public television or were their stories not included in any mainstream magazine, radio show, or newspaper? Did any of them testify for three hours explaining their story and then it was never mentioned in the official report?

Please enlighten me with your infinite wisdom.

 

[Bustaballs]

Further information on this "debunk" bullshit.

Funny how the NTSB's accident report of the Payne Stewart incident "fails" to mention the "phantom" F-15 out of FL, as well. I'm SURE that's only because they obverlooked it, right? In fact the NTSB mentions SPECIFICALLY that ONE F-16 (on a training flight) was vectored to check out the situation approximately 1 hour and 22 minutes after contact with N47BA was lost. There was no pair of F-16s sent, although TWO F-16 were on stand-by later, incase the plane were to head for a heavily populated area and it became necessary to shoot them down. These planes were NEVER scrambled, however and NEVER tracked squat.

Links below, but beware, they're from the GUBMENT! You might fall victem to their evil mind-control devices!

http://www.airsafe.com/stewart.htm
http://www.ntsb.gov/Publictn/2000/AAB0001.htm
http://www.ntsb.gov/Publictn/2000/AAB0001.htm

Somehow I believe the NTSB over some site that "debunks" PM with information that is completely inaccurate.

:shok:

Hmm. Well anything that can be disproved like that, I'll consider as not very credible. There were many other points made about different issues just in the PM magazine.

Can I ask you a something?

You joined the forum today and your only posts are in this thread. That seems a bit odd to me. Where did you come from? Who are you? Do you even play FFXI?

 

[Rones]

Good grief man. I'm not touching this topic in its current form. It would takes 4-5 hours just to skim through all your material and another 2-3 hours just to respond properly to a few, let alone all of the topics you presented in this. Too much in one space. Like Trippy says, make a thread for each subject you want to discuss. Otherwise any attempt at discussion is futile...which might just why you presented it like this.

 

[Bajaratt]

I'm not going to get into this thread, because I think the whole concept is utter lunacy; but my feelings aside I want to address one thing.

I refuse to allow this country to become a dictatorship while I am alive. I will do everything I can to show people the real America that they know nothing about. If we unite and work together, we can stop this evil government and make things the way our founding fathers intended.

Let's assume for a second that you're right, there's a huge conspiracy that's been going on for decades. What the hell do you think you could possibly do against it? "America will always be protected while I'm alive," come on, are you high?

If the government was an evil dictatorship like you claim, if they truely were responsible for all of the deaths that you're claiming, killing you to carry out their plans would be nothing. You can't even say that killing you would be proof that you're right, because if they're as smart and diabolical as you're giving them credit for, making it look like an accident would be child's play. That, and the fact that you're likely not even a blip on their radar. You can "spread the truth" all you want, but without any hard evidence, very few people will believe you, so you're ultimately not a threat to their plans.

You can keep going on about the conspiracy, I don't care, but you need to put something into perspective. If you're right, there's nothing you could do about it.

 

[Bustaballs]

I'm not going to get into this thread, because I think the whole concept is utter lunacy; but my feelings aside I want to address one thing.


Let's assume for a second that you're right, there's a huge conspiracy that's been going on for decades. What the hell do you think you could possibly do against it? "America will always be protected while I'm alive," come on, are you high?

If the government was an evil dictatorship like you claim, if they truely were responsible for all of the deaths that you're claiming, killing you to carry out their plans would be nothing. You can't even say that killing you would be proof that you're right, because if they're as smart and diabolical as you're giving them credit for, making it look like an accident would be child's play. That, and the fact that you're likely not even a blip on their radar. You can "spread the truth" all you want, but without any hard evidence, very few people will believe you, so you're ultimately not a threat to their plans.

You can keep going on about the conspiracy, I don't care, but you need to put something into perspective. If you're right, there's nothing you could do about it.

Read the articles. Watch the video. Then critisize. If nothing else just watch this video.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3453261789658676035

It's fine to have your own opinions but if you refuse to look at the massive amounts of "hard evidence" that's there then you won't actually know it's there. I have in those links, very detailed information that prove without a doubt that there is no way that the buildings were taking down by the fire. This isn't "internet physics experts". This is MIT engineers. People who have worked in constuction. People who are just complete professionals at what they do. Even still, there is proof that tempatures in WTC7 had to have risen to ~1000 degrees celcius to cause the damage it did to the evidence that they have which is impossible by a simple fire.

If you guys actually read the articles and watch the videos, there is plenty of "hard evidence". Mostly on the WTC. I made sure I had the proper resources to properly debunk any official story on the WTC 1, 2, and 7 collapses. I don't see people arguing with that. Only Pearl Harbor and the PM magazine debunking. The first article of debunking the PM article, if not expose their lies, brought up many points about the PM's article. The other articles I posted I simply scanned through if they were too lengthy in order for a proper reply.

I'm not asking you to believe anything. I'm only asking you to look through my resources instead of bashing everything right off the bat. If it takes people a week to look through them then fine. I really don't care what people have to say about things when they make fun of me without reading and watching (usually ANY) of my resources.

 

[Mai Ikari]

Woooooooosh~


Bustaballs, look at Baja's post again, and quit being so twitchy.

"Let's assume for a second that you're right, there's a huge conspiracy that's been going on for decades. What the hell do you think you could possibly do against it? "America will always be protected while I'm alive," come on, are you high?"

That was the question in the post. Try answering it. I'm rather curious as to what you have to say.

 

[alanon]

Like what and who? Also, were any of them denied their right to speak on public television or were their stories not included in any mainstream magazine, radio show, or newspaper? Did any of them testify for three hours explaining their story and then it was never mentioned in the official report?

Please enlighten me with your infinite wisdom.

Oh gee, I dunno. How about the several thousand people on ground level? It's like the missle hitting the pentagon crap. The are several people that reported a plane, some large, some say small, but most focus on the one guy that says it was a missle....

 

[Sculli]

As compared to thousands of Iraqis screaming in pain or thousands of Panamanians scream in pain? I could continue that for a long time. Watch this movie:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3453261789658676035.

Busta, let it go. Millions > Thousands, not that hard of a concept.
I am with Trippy and anyone else who is looking at this at least half way rationally. Nothing, absolutely nothing that happened in recent decades compares (or "deserves" to be compared) to Nazi Germany's atrocities. Doing so is essentially "cheapening" the suffering people when through during the Nazi reign.

Even still, there is proof that tempatures in WTC7 had to have risen to ~1000 degrees celcius to cause the damage it did to the evidence that they have which is impossible by a simple fire.

None of the people involved, and no one with some basic understanding of chemistry and physics would call WTC a "simple fire".
Thousands of gallons of jet fuel as accellerant is hardly to be considered "simple", even common sense should suggest that.

 

[alanon]

Read the articles. Watch the video. Then critisize. If nothing else just watch this video.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3453261789658676035

It's fine to have your own opinions but if you refuse to look at the massive amounts of "hard evidence" that's there then you won't actually know it's there. I have in those links, very detailed information that prove without a doubt that there is no way that the buildings were taking down by the fire. This isn't "internet physics experts". This is MIT engineers. People who have worked in constuction. People who are just complete professionals at what they do. Even still, there is proof that tempatures in WTC7 had to have risen to ~1000 degrees celcius to cause the damage it did to the evidence that they have which is impossible by a simple fire.

If you guys actually read the articles and watch the videos, there is plenty of "hard evidence". Mostly on the WTC. I made sure I had the proper resources to properly debunk any official story on the WTC 1, 2, and 7 collapses. I don't see people arguing with that. Only Pearl Harbor and the PM magazine debunking. The first article of debunking the PM article, if not expose their lies, brought up many points about the PM's article. The other articles I posted I simply scanned through if they were too lengthy in order for a proper reply.

I'm not asking you to believe anything. I'm only asking you to look through my resources instead of bashing everything right off the bat. If it takes people a week to look through them then fine. I really don't care what people have to say about things when they make fun of me without reading and watching (usually ANY) of my resources.

First off, the reason people are focusing on pearl harbour and PM is because it's new, the rest of your topic was discussed at length already.

Secondly, your links provide absoultely ZERO "hard evidence". Your talk of Internet experts goes right back at you. Your one article written by a Phd got his Phd in Psychology for christ's sake. Some expert there. Let's ignore the actual experts in the field that are actually related that have given scientific reasons for the fall. True, the melting point of steel is higher than the fire would allow, but then again it NEVER would have had a chance to MELT, because it would have weakened and caused a collapse first. The possible temperatures make a structural weakening enitirely plausible and in fact, that's probably what happened.

For the record, I do have a degree in engineering.

 

[alanon]

You joined the forum today and your only posts are in this thread. That seems a bit odd to me. Where did you come from? Who are you? Do you even play FFXI?

He is a co-worker of mine. He walked past and saw me shaking my head at my computer screen and wondered what I was up. You think you have done some research into this topic? Mwa-ha-ha this old bastard has been studying conspiracies since before most of this forum was born. You must have piqued his curiocity. 8)

 

[Chasym]

http://www.shoutwire.com/viewstory/14090/Rumsfeld_s_Slip_of_the_Tongue_of_What_Happened_to_Flight_93

 

[Trippyhippy]

It has died out. It's been way off topic for a while. Also, this thread isn't just about 9/11.

Then make a new one. I'm on your side for the most part, and I think you should make more than 1 topic to discuss all this.

As compared to thousands of Iraqis screaming in pain or thousands of Panamanians scream in pain? I could continue that for a long time. Watch this movie:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3453261789658676035

Thousands, ten-thousands. Incomprable to the amount of jews that were killed in Belorussia, Poland, Ukraine, Russia, Romania, Germany, Hungary, The Netherlands or Lithuania individually. At least 100,000 jews died from each of those countries, with poland getting hit the hardest losing 2.9 Million Jews alone. People don't care what else they did. They killed millions. You can't get passed that and there is no need to compare anyone to Nazis. I implore you to just drop this one.

Perhaps he wasn't directly to blame. Suppose the many eyewitnesses that saw the levees being blown up all lied or took what they actually saw out of context. I'll ignore all that and say it's false. Let's just look at these things taken from my resources you obviously didn't look at.

Did you see what that storm did to Mississippi? There is no question in my mind that a storm that caused that much damage that far inland could take out a Leve or 10. Not to mention the credibility of any Eye Witness that saw them blow it up is next to nothing as far as I'm concerned. There was a Hurricane coming. They stayed. We told them the levees will break. They stayed. We told them evacuation was mandatory. They stayed. The Levees broke and the city was flooded. They Stayed. We tried to move them after things calmed down a bit. The refused to go.

Also, your Many eyewitnesses include one man who heard it go "Boom", and a Woman refered to only as "Mama D" who says she and many other people saw it, but none of these others are named in your links. If you are gonna blow up a levee to ill a bunch of people, you are not gonna issue a mandatory evacuation first.

Ah.. this is where I read the FEMA thing.

Is that enough for you or should I continue? Their budget funding keeps getting cut more and more. Very little was done to help the people in New Orleans. Security measures can't be taken to fortify the levees to prevent any major catastrophys but they can destroy the Bill of Rights for "security"?

Yeah, because this administration is looking for dollars that can be saved to spend on an unjust war. Not one of those quotes talks about the levees being blown up. They talk about budget cuts and how they are ignoring the problem now. This administration doesn't care if they get help or not. The more of them that die... that's just that many more black people that can't vote for the Donley next time. But the only evidence that anything was blown up was one guy heard it, and one woman said "Everyone saw it". In the middle of the Hurricane. Everyone was looking outside at the Levee.

Funding can't be put into fixing up natural attacks in our own home but hundreds of billions of dollars can be put into a fake war on terrorism that started (according to the official sotry) based on a conspiracy theory? What about when this earthquake happens? Will nothing be done then as well?

Are you kidding? of course something will be done. That's California. They have more electoral votes than any other state... And yeah, the war was started based on a conspiracy theory. Like I said in my first post, I like how you worded that.

Do you really think Bush was actually voted into office?

Niether time actually.

Well the information is all there. I've gone through what I've put in this post alone in a days time. I understand not everyone has all the free time in the world to read up on this but I catagorized it and the facts are there. If you decide not to look at them then I feel you don't have a proper excuse for arguement.

Because I draw a different opinion about 1 thing from all this info you pilled together, doesn't mean I didn't spend my fare share of time wading through all these links. Defend your position. But don't make assumptions about the people you are defending against.

 

[Torqameda]

People don't have to go through all those links to create an argument in the defense of their opinion. There are millions of sources out there, and each one is different in its own way. Hence the difference in many opinions amongst many people.

 

[Bustaballs]

In reply to "what can we do about it?":

They may be the government but they need people to rule. If you know the truth and you spread the word, eventually more and more people will believe. More and more people are learning the truth every day. There are protests and groups being formed and speeches and just all kinds of things all over the country. People are doing everything they can to stop each one of these horrible things.



In reply to there not being ANY hard evidence:

Someone is too lazy to read some articles and watch some videos. What do you consider "hard evidence"?



In reply to millions > thousands:

Our government has caused the deaths of over 1.5 million people in Iraq alone just because of the sanctions. That's just ONE country. Our government has been invading countries since post WWII all based on conspiracy theorys. A lot of these invasions are not known by the general public because they were never mentioned on mainstream media. Our government has indeed caused the death of millions and millions. I was just using some examples.



In reply to "you never mentioned the eyewitnesses of the levees breaking":

I said I would ignore that to make a point.



In reply to analon:

You make up this 99% > 1% numbers. Yes, I understand the pentagon thing. There were indeed eyewitnesses that claimed they saw a plane BUT I doubt it was 99%. I've heard at least five eyewitnesses saying it was or they thought it was a missle. I seriously doubt there were 495 others saying that they saw a plane. As for the pentagon thing, I'm not too sure about it myself. I personally don't think that specific plane could have caused the damage it did but I know a missle couldn't either.



In reply to my resources not being from professionals:



http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html
http://www.public-action.com/911/jmcm/physics_1.html
http://www.attackonamerica.net/proofofcontrolleddemolitionatwtc.htm
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1822764959599063248

Those are just about the towers. That doesn't include the other topics.