The real America! 9/11 and all. The thread you've been waiting for.

[Bustaballs]

http://www.shoutwire.com/viewstory/14090/Rumsfeld_s_Slip_of_the_Tongue_of_What_Happened_to_Flight_93

Wow...

"And I think all of us have a sense if we imagine the kind
of world we would face if the people who bombed the mess hall in
Mosul, or the people who did the bombing in Spain, or the people who
attacked the United States in New York, shot down the plane over
Pennsylvania and attacked the Pentagon, the people who
cut off peoples' heads on television to intimidate, to frighten --
indeed the word "terrorized" is just that. Its purpose is to
terrorize, to alter behavior, to make people be something other than
that which they want to be."

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0412/24/nfcnn.01.html

He worded it very odd. It's hard to understand what he meant when he said that.

 

[alanon]

In reply to my resources not being from professionals:

http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html
http://www.public-action.com/911/jmcm/physics_1.html
http://www.attackonamerica.net/proofofcontrolleddemolitionatwtc.htm
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1822764959599063248

Those are just about the towers. That doesn't include the other topics.

Fine, I'll play your game. First I never said they weren't professionals, (Hell a hooker can be "professional") I said they were not credible experts in the related field.

The first is a fairly poorly put together website. It's a faculty page by the way, not an official school page. The author of which contradicts himself. First he says that the burning jet fuel itself could only reach 1000 degrees and could not melt steel (true). He then goes on to state facts that at 600 degrees, the steel would still be at 50%tenstile strength (also true). Can you see yet where his facts already weaken his own position? Let me hold your hand through it:

If steel is at ~80% at 450 degrees and ~50% at 650 degrees, what do you think the strength of the steel is at at 900-1000 degrees? Again, what most of these "credible conspiracy theorists" always seem to forget is that steel does not have to become enitrely liquid before it can no longer perform it's function.

The author by the way, is considered an expert in solar and nuclear energies. Certainly a brilliant guy, but hardly an expert in engineering or demolition. This is the same guy responsible for "cold fusion" theories and is the butt of jokes in the fusion community but certainly is the inspiration for several bad hollywood scripts. Furthermore, to find an expert in the related field, we have to go no further than across the BYU campuss to Dr. Miller, Dir and chair of the Civil and Environmental Engineering department:

I think without exception, the structural engineering professors in our department are not in agreement with the claims made by Jones in his paper, and they don't think there is accuracy and validity to these claims

Again, melting a pop can and pouring it on steel yelling "see? no explosion! the Government did it!!" is hardly "Hard evidence".


The second link is not a professional at all! He's a hack! A Kid with a video camera and a theory and nothing else! He laughs at real experts and misquotes other to support his "theory". Here's a real expert by the way, quoted within that article:

Eduardo Kausel, an M.I.T. professor of civil and environmental engineering, spoke as follows to a panel of Boston area civil and structural engineers: "I believe that the intense heat softened or melted the structural elements -- floor trusses and columns -- so that they became like chewing gum, and that was enough to trigger the collapse."

Notice the bolded part? That's the credentials of an expert in a related field. How does your "professional" respond? He basically says "nu-uh!" and moves on. What a moving argument! I'm convinced now! The government MUST be responsible because some clown with a website said "nu-uh" to an MIT professor's analysis! Seriously, what kind of lemming buys into that bullshit?

The third link I already addressed. The author is Jerry Russell, Ph.D. Sounds pretty impressive doesn't it? Allow me to finish the title for you: Jerry Russell, Ph.D. in Psychology from the University of Oregon. Unless he's going to tell me how the beams would not have broke under pressure because of emotional and psychological stress, then I don't really consider anything he has to say on the matter as being an EXPERT opinion.

 

[Pelori]

The problem Busta is you are not looking at the real picture. History and truth is in the eye of the beholder. Much like Obi Won says, "Luke your going to find that many of the truths we cling depend greatly on your own point of view".

Your looking at select very one sided sources that are very extreme. Am I saying there 100% wrong or right, no. But to really understand things that happen you have to study history and events from all Angles. To understand Nazi germany you have to read the history books, diary of Ann Frank and Mien Kompf.

You have to get the big picture. I recomend you really sit down and look at all angles. Im not denieing that some of the theories are possible. (I for one am a firm believier in Pearl Harbor being let to happen, but not to go to war with Japan, FDR let it happen because he felt we had to go to war with Germany.... and we did). But dont take some of these sources at face value. paticularly INternet sources, there're like a box of chocoletes, you never... yeah you know where I am going with that.

I recomend if you havent yet you read the 9/11 comission report, also, track down some news articales from verious papers on the day of the event, and the subsiquent weeks. With pearl, well there is more then plenty of resources on that. BUt you get the idea, look for the big picture and keep an open mind, dont close it to any possiblity good or evil. Anyhow that's my soapbox and I'm done.

 

[hellstorm]

Do they know how powerful it will be? Also, I said in the near future. I predict five years or less. One of the reasons being that FEMA stated sometime before 9/11 (I don't remember the exact dates or anything. I'd have to look it up again. Also, don't quote me directly because I don't remember "exactly" what I read.) they had mentioned three major areas of possible disaster. One being an attack on the WTC. Second being the levees breaking at in New Orleans. Third being a massive earthquake in California. There are some other more minor reasons. Reguardless, I'll look more into it.

there have been study and theory on this for decade some say it could be strong enough to put all of cali underwater. there is no cover up here the information is there for people to see. Also that whole hurricane cover up is false. It a hurriucane people knew it was coming and new orlean just was not ready for it. I work for a helo squadron in us navy my squadron plus every other eastern coast squadron sent helos to help with the recovery effort.

This is a "wait and see" thing. They are beginning to have a lack of troops to handle everything. They see this leading toward needing a draft. If a draft happens then the people will realise that this is another Vietnam and be against the government. An idea is that the government would have to create another "terrorist attack" beforehand to make the draft more convincing.

Edit: I misread this. Number five is already happening to an extent. Watch the "9/11 Road to Tyranny" movie below. I also suggest "Police State", "Police State 2000", and "Police State 3". Certain police chiefs of certain towns agree to allow military to preform "training" in the towns. I'll link you to some things.

http://www.infowars.com/print/ps/creeping.htm
http://www.infowars.com/police_state.html

wow just wow it called martial law any time of a teriest attack this happen. Training is alot diffent then inforcing laws.

It's already being required in certain banks, grocery stores, and schools across the country. Alex Jones was arrested for protesting this at a bank once. My school required students to have their IDs in order to get their lunches. It's only a matter of time.

Edit: Here's a pic of it.

idenity theft is a large issue right now so i can see why some places are doing this. Even in military we have ID cards that have are fingerprint on them, are information, and are meal card information, in order get on the computer im using right now i have put my card into the computer,
heck with all the identy theft alone on this game with people account getting hacked, there is a need to stranthen people idenetys easyest way to do that is ID's and fingerprints.

What about the patriot act that goes completely against the Bill of Rights? The "biblical" stuff would be if they required it to be put in your forehead or right wrist. This would be an example of the anti-christ's coming on earth with the microchip being the mark of Lucifer. As for it not happening, I can give you endless amounts of resources about it.

Alex Jones is the biggest exposer of this microchip implant idea. You can see some of his evidence in a video called "9/11: The Road to Tyranny" and other evidence on his site. I'll link you.

http://www.infowars.com/microchips.html
http://www.infowars.com/print/bb/bajaimplant.htm


Thanks for the reply. =)

yes the technolgy is out there to do it, but if this ever came to pass there whould be riots. The idea of clones is out there bu as you see they ban that from the states as well.

 

[Bustaballs]

The first is a fairly poorly put together website. It's a faculty page by the way, not an official school page. The author of which contradicts himself. First he says that the burning jet fuel itself could only reach 1000 degrees and could not melt steel (true). He then goes on to state facts that at 600 degrees, the steel would still be at 50%tenstile strength (also true). Can you see yet where his facts already weaken his own position? Let me hold your hand through it:

If steel is at ~80% at 450 degrees and ~50% at 650 degrees, what do you think the strength of the steel is at at 900-1000 degrees? Again, what most of these "credible conspiracy theorists" always seem to forget is that steel does not have to become enitrely liquid before it can no longer perform it's function.

First of all, the website looks fine. That's just your opinion. Second, he doesn't contridict himself at all. You've obviously failed to do enough research on the subject. This isn't a theory. It's a debunking of the official story. These guys are proving the official storys wrong, left and right.

Why Indeed Did the WTC Buildings Collapse?
By Steven E. Jones
Department of Physics and Astronomy
Brigham Young University

Where it's at on the site has nothing to do with anything. Let me mention something and supply you with some links that you didn't look at.

Molten metal was found in the subbasements of WTC sites weeks after 9/11; the melting point of structural steel is 2,750 degrees Fahrenheit and the temperature of jet fuel does not exceed 1,800 degrees. Molten metal was also found in the building known as WTC7, although no plane had struck it. Jones's paper also includes a photo of a slag of the metal being extracted from ground zero. The slag, Jones argues, could not be aluminum from the planes because in photographs the metal was salmon-to-yellow-hot temperature (approximately 1,550 to 1,900 degrees F) "well above the melting temperatures of lead and aluminum," which would be a liquid at that temperature.

- Scholars for 9/11 Truth. A group of professors dedicated to proving the truth of 9/11.

Now then. Looky here:

http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/0112/Biederman/Biederman-0112.html - An initial microstructural analysis of A36 steel from WTC building 7.

Most of the steel from the WTC towers were loaded up on trucks and sent away to foreign countrys to be sold and melted down to be recycled. All of that which is against the law to the fullest degree. You are not allowed to tamper with the evidence of a crime. Another thing to mention is that in almost every major crime or disaster in the US was followed by a investigation within a week or less. An official investigation on 9/11 didn't take place until a year and a half after 9/11. I'll grab an official number later.

Again, melting a pop can and pouring it on steel yelling "see? no explosion! the Government did it!!" is hardly "Hard evidence".

Once again. Look at my resources. Not just one or two. You can't cover all of the bullshit in one article. Otherwise, that's all I would have posted. When you do this and you still deny the truth, then you are obviously just a sheep that can be nothing else that believe the government always tells you the truth all of the time. Once again, what do you consider "hard evidence"? Once I get a answer for that, I can show you all of it. You fail to make a valid arguement.

The second link is not a professional at all! He's a hack! A Kid with a video camera and a theory and nothing else! He laughs at real experts and misquotes other to support his "theory". Here's a real expert by the way, quoted within that article:

Wow.. How stupid can you get. "Oh it says www.public-action.com so it can't be real." You just made up your own conspiracy theory right there. The article is on that site. It's not where the original article was. The original article was taken down. Now it's spread throughout the web and that's the most popular site that it's shown. If you read it then it goes into some nice detail about things. By saying what you said, you're doing the exact same thing that the stupid theorists on the forum I was on were doing. They said certain sites (even wikipedia) aren't credible because they are controlled by the government. They didn't try to debate the websites, they just accused them of being false. That's exactly what you're doing.

"If you make yourselves sheep, the wolves will eat you." -- Benjamin Franklin

Notice the bolded part? That's the credentials of an expert in a related field. How does your "professional" respond? He basically says "nu-uh!" and moves on. What a moving argument! I'm convinced now! The government MUST be responsible because some clown with a website said "nu-uh" to an MIT professor's analysis! Seriously, what kind of lemming buys into that bullshit?

The third link I already addressed. The author is Jerry Russell, Ph.D. Sounds pretty impressive doesn't it? Allow me to finish the title for you: Jerry Russell, Ph.D. in Psychology from the University of Oregon. Unless he's going to tell me how the beams would not have broke under pressure because of emotional and psychological stress, then I don't really consider anything he has to say on the matter as being an EXPERT opinion.

Do you think I'm an idiot? I've read these things. You can't fool me or anyone else by leaving out the main information that is clearly there.

The author has a master's degree in Engineering from Stanford University, and a Ph.D. in Psychology from the University of Oregon.

 

[hellstorm]

Do you really think Bush was actually voted into office?

do you actually thought he had any compatision?

 

[Bustaballs]

The problem Busta is you are not looking at the real picture. History and truth is in the eye of the beholder. Much like Obi Won says, "Luke your going to find that many of the truths we cling depend greatly on your own point of view".

Your looking at select very one sided sources that are very extreme. Am I saying there 100% wrong or right, no. But to really understand things that happen you have to study history and events from all Angles. To understand Nazi germany you have to read the history books, diary of Ann Frank and Mien Kompf.

You have to get the big picture. I recomend you really sit down and look at all angles. Im not denieing that some of the theories are possible. (I for one am a firm believier in Pearl Harbor being let to happen, but not to go to war with Japan, FDR let it happen because he felt we had to go to war with Germany.... and we did). But dont take some of these sources at face value. paticularly INternet sources, there're like a box of chocoletes, you never... yeah you know where I am going with that.

I recomend if you havent yet you read the 9/11 comission report, also, track down some news articales from verious papers on the day of the event, and the subsiquent weeks. With pearl, well there is more then plenty of resources on that. BUt you get the idea, look for the big picture and keep an open mind, dont close it to any possiblity good or evil. Anyhow that's my soapbox and I'm done.

I am looking at things from all angles. That's why I don't support anything that doesn't have enough evidence and anything that conspiracy theorists just assume to be true. I'm looking at the official stories and the ones that prove them wrong. As far as going into extreme extreme detail, I have not yet had the time. I promise you, I will look into everything within what time alows me to.

As far as the 9/11 Commission book, I suggest you look into another book called "The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions And Distortions".

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6837001821567284154 - David Ray Griffin gives a speech that talks about the falsity and misleadings in the 9/11 Commission.

Thanks for the proper reply. =)

 

[Bajaratt]

They may be the government but they need people to rule. If you know the truth and you spread the word, eventually more and more people will believe. More and more people are learning the truth every day. There are protests and groups being formed and speeches and just all kinds of things all over the country. People are doing everything they can to stop each one of these horrible things.

Yeah, how successfull have you been so far, how many governments have you toppled lately? Most of the people in the thread are disagreeing, and most people will think that this is a crock made from half-truths or biased sources. Alanon has done a decent job showing how "credible" your sources are.

 

[Doctork]

Hmm. Well anything that can be disproved like that, I'll consider as not very credible. There were many other points made about different issues just in the PM magazine.

Can I ask you a something?

You joined the forum today and your only posts are in this thread. That seems a bit odd to me. Where did you come from? Who are you? Do you even play FFXI?

Gee, could see THIS one comming.

Actually, yes I HAVE played FFIX, not that it REALLY matters in this topic, now does it?

Let me ask you a question. What difference does it make?

 

[Doctork]

He is a co-worker of mine. He walked past and saw me shaking my head at my computer screen and wondered what I was up. You think you have done some research into this topic? Mwa-ha-ha this old bastard has been studying conspiracies since before most of this forum was born. You must have piqued his curiocity. 8)

YEAH!

THAT TOO!

Anyone want to argue about the Bermuda Triangle? Flight 19? The Marine Sulpher Queen? The USS Clclops, perhaps?

 

[Bustaballs]

Yeah, how successfull have you been so far, how many governments have you toppled lately? Most of the people in the thread are disagreeing, and most people will think that this is a crock made from half-truths or biased sources. Alanon has done a decent job showing how "credible" your sources are.

No, he's done a horrible job. I've proved him wrong on many points. Do you only read one side? The resistance is failing because the general public doesn't know because the mainstream media doesn't tell them anything except the stories that support the official stories. They never allow any of the eyewitnesses to go on any show even though they would blow the official stories away. The resistance is also failing because of sheep like you and alanon.

You are just another person making assumptions based on someone's false accusations. I'd consider it a theory but it isn't even based on evidence. It's just being stupid. If you read and watch the resources and proved them wrong then your post would have been valid.

In nonviolence the masses have a weapon which enables a child, a woman, or even a decrepit old man to challenge the mightiest of government successfully. If your spirit is strong, mere lack of strength ceases to be a handicap. - Gandhi

 

[Bustaballs]

YEAH!

THAT TOO!

Anyone want to argue about the Bermuda Triangle? Flight 19? The Marine Sulpher Queen? The USS Clclops, perhaps?

You showed how one of the resources (which I got from a quick search.. I didn't claim it as being true) had a couple of false things in it. You also mentioned some things about Pearl Harbor. That makes you earn a bit more respect from me but this post just ruined that.

 

[alanon]

First of all, the website looks fine. That's just your opinion. Second, he doesn't contridict himself at all. You've obviously failed to do enough research on the subject. [bThis isn't a theory[/b]. It's a debunking of the official story. These guys are proving the official storys wrong, left and right.

Once again, they are not proving ANYTHING! It IS a theory. Yes, my opinion is that site looks bad, but I'm also referring to the fact that the link doesn't work all the time and if you try to download the full report (in Word no less) you need a PW! Your "proof" is in the form of false logic presented by people who are not qualified. I apparently know more about that author than you do. I gave you his background, all you give me is:
Quote:
Why Indeed Did the WTC Buildings Collapse?
By Steven E. Jones
Department of Physics and Astronomy
Brigham Young University

Thanks, I did read the site, did you even read what I wrote?

When you do this and you still deny the truth, then you are obviously just a sheep that can be nothing else that believe the government always tells you the truth all of the time. Once again, what do you consider "hard evidence"? Once I get a answer for that, I can show you all of it. You fail to make a valid arguement.

Read again! Jesus, it's like talking to a brick wall! YOU are the one who says you have "Hard Evidence". I said that all you have a THEORIES concocted by people who are NOT experts in the related field trying to put off people who in fact ARE experts. You then provided me with 3 links and then I told you how these people were NOT experts. I'm sorry, who's the sheep again? I choose to believe expert opinion and you follow anybody who states an opinion that agrees with yours, whether they be qualified or not. L-E-M-M-I-N-G!

Wow.. How stupid can you get. "Oh it says www.public-action.com so it can't be real." You just made up your own conspiracy theory right there. The article is on that site. It's not where the original article was. The original article was taken down. Now it's spread throughout the web and that's the most popular site that it's shown. If you read it then it goes into some nice detail about things. By saying what you said, you're doing the exact same thing that the stupid theorists on the forum I was on were doing. They said certain sites (even wikipedia) aren't credible because they are controlled by the government. They didn't try to debate the websites, they just accused them of being false. That's exactly what you're doing.

ONCE AGAIN, you posted that as one of your "Professional" sources. I see absolutely NO credentials on the author, do you? It has NOTHING to do with WHERE it is posted, but EVERYTHING to do with WHO. In this case it's just some guy who we know absolutely NOTHING about and YOU buy into what he says! I'm sorry, who's the sheep again???

"If you make yourselves sheep, the wolves will eat you." -- Benjamin Franklin

 

[Bustaballs]

Once again, they are not proving ANYTHING! It IS a theory. Yes, my opinion is that site looks bad, but I'm also referring to the fact that the link doesn't work all the time and if you try to download the full report (in Word no less) you need a PW! Your "proof" is in the form of false logic presented by people who are not qualified. I apparently know more about that author than you do. I gave you his background, all you give me is:
Quote:
Why Indeed Did the WTC Buildings Collapse?
By Steven E. Jones
Department of Physics and Astronomy
Brigham Young University

Thanks, I did read the site, did you even read what I wrote?

I'm sorry. I didn't realise that professionals that are legally qualified to work in the Department of Physics and Astronomy at Brigham Young University were not officially qualified by sheep of the government. I also showed you proof IN MY POST that showed you were false.

Read again! Jesus, it's like talking to a brick wall! YOU are the one who says you have "Hard Evidence". I said that all you have a THEORIES concocted by people who are NOT experts in the related field trying to put off people who in fact ARE experts. You then provided me with 3 links and then I told you how these people were NOT experts. I'm sorry, who's the sheep again? I choose to believe expert opinion and you follow anybody who states an opinion that agrees with yours, whether they be qualified or not. L-E-M-M-I-N-G!

Those people ARE EXPERTS more so than the people that worked on the official stories and people that worked on the 9/11 commission book. Just because you say they aren't experts doesn't make it so. Their degrees prove it.

ONCE AGAIN, you posted that as one of your "Professional" sources. I see absolutely NO credentials on the author, do you? It has NOTHING to do with WHERE it is posted, but EVERYTHING to do with WHO. In this case it's just some guy who we know absolutely NOTHING about and YOU buy into what he says! I'm sorry, who's the sheep again???

You are. You follow everything your government says to you. I'm looking at all sides of every story and doing research on all of it. You just hear assume anything that goes against the official stories are "conspiracy theorys" when they are proven to and endless degree.

Some official stories = Pancake THEORY and domino THEORY. All of these and all other have been proven false. I can look up information on the people if you like. Once again, you are doing exactly what the theorist following sheep do.

Make a valid arguement by trying to disprove what is being said instead of claiming all of my sources as false. Jesus... I never knew there could be people like you.


Edit: Until I get a valid post in here, I'm not replying to idiot sheep. This thread was meant to spread the truth and for people who agree with the official stories to prove it false which they have failed to do.

 

[Doctork]

You showed how one of the resources (which I got from a quick search.. I didn't claim it as being true) had a couple of false things in it. You also mentioned some things about Pearl Harbor. That makes you earn a bit more respect from me but this post just ruined that.

What in God's name are you blithering on about?

Why would I give two shits if you "respect" me or not? Oh man! Now I gotta cry myself to sleep tonight! Oh! Woe is me.

You don't even know WHAT my position on any of the things I listed are. I'm willing to bet you don't even know what 75% of the stuff I listed is, for that matter.

Come on, tough guy, impress me some.


Oh, and BTW- I showed how one of your "resources" has a COMPLETE lack of unsderstanding of proper research. They didn't even bother to take the TWO MINUTES it took me to find the accident report from the Payne Stewart crash. That shows, among other things, that this "source" cannot be trusted to provide any sort of reliable information. Most of the "sources" you have provided are know to me and have simular attitudes toward their "research". Basing a theory on shoddy research is, at best, bad practice.

And the stuff I posted about Pearl Harbor was to dispell the myths about the events that led up to WWII and our attitudes toward Navel Power at the time. These are very important concepts, if you are to understand WHY we did not know about the attack beforehand.

 

[Doctork]

No, he's done a horrible job. I've proved him wrong on many points. Do you only read one side? The resistance is failing because the general public doesn't know because the mainstream media doesn't tell them anything except the stories that support the official stories. They never allow any of the eyewitnesses to go on any show even though they would blow the official stories away. The resistance is also failing because of sheep like you and alanon.

You are just another person making assumptions based on someone's false accusations. I'd consider it a theory but it isn't even based on evidence. It's just being stupid. If you read and watch the resources and proved them wrong then your post would have been valid.

WHOAWHOAWHOAWHOA!

I thought the "revolution" was gaining steam by the minute, by the hour, by the day? Which is it?

If the "resistance" is crumbling under ANYTHING, its the weight of the mountain of bullshit it was built upon.

 

[alanon]

I'm sorry. I didn't realise that professionals that are legally qualified to work in the Department of Physics and Astronomy at Brigham Young University were not officially qualified by sheep of the government. I also showed you proof IN MY POST that showed you were false.

Once again, dispshit, since you obviously didn't bother reading anything I wrote in responce, I'll simply repost:

The author by the way, is considered an expert in solar and nuclear energies. Certainly a brilliant guy, but hardly an expert in engineering or demolition. This is the same guy responsible for "cold fusion" theories and is the butt of jokes in the fusion community but certainly is the inspiration for several bad hollywood scripts. Furthermore, to find an expert in the related field, we have to go no further than across the BYU campuss to Dr. Miller, Dir and chair of the Civil and Environmental Engineering department:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Miller
I think without exception, the structural engineering professors in our department are not in agreement with the claims made by Jones in his paper, and they don't think there is accuracy and validity to these claims

Make a valid arguement by trying to disprove what is being said instead of claiming all of my sources as false. Jesus... I never knew there could be people like you.

I did, you ignored it.

Edit: Until I get a valid post in here, I'm not replying to idiot sheep. This thread was meant to spread the truth and for people who agree with the official stories to prove it false which they have failed to do.

There is no truth, only theories. It is good to know, however, that you have given up talking to yourself......

 

[Bajaratt]

No, he's done a horrible job. I've proved him wrong on many points. Do you only read one side? The resistance is failing because the general public doesn't know because the mainstream media doesn't tell them anything except the stories that support the official stories. They never allow any of the eyewitnesses to go on any show even though they would blow the official stories away. The resistance is also failing because of sheep like you and alanon.

You are just another person making assumptions based on someone's false accusations. I'd consider it a theory but it isn't even based on evidence. It's just being stupid. If you read and watch the resources and proved them wrong then your post would have been valid.

In nonviolence the masses have a weapon which enables a child, a woman, or even a decrepit old man to challenge the mightiest of government successfully. If your spirit is strong, mere lack of strength ceases to be a handicap. - Gandhi

Funny, this is exactly how I feel about your position. The thing is, I don't trot around like I'm doing a great justice, like I'm some kind of hero. The resistance is failing not because the media is against you, but because your whole basis is insane. You're weaving together half-truths and circumspect evidence and calling it a conspiracy.

As for him not doing a good job proving your sources aren't credible, you never responded that one of your sources commenting on the structural integrity of the buildings had no experience in that field. Just having a phd doesn't mean that you know everything, you're ignoring the lack of credibility in the source itself just because the source agrees with you.

Here's some evidence that you're wrong: "The government is not involved in any 60 year-old conspiracies" - random high school graduate.

 

[Bajaratt]

Make a valid arguement by trying to disprove what is being said instead of claiming all of my sources as false. Jesus... I never knew there could be people like you.

There's something you're not getting when it comes to debating. When your position is built on the evidence, and that evidence is proven to be false or unreliable, your position fails. You're listing off source after source of things agreeing with you, but if the sources aren't credible then neither is your entire theory. They've already made the argument fo "you're wrong," and they are proving it by showing how the basis(the sources) for your argument is wrong.

 

[Bustaballs]

And the stuff I posted about Pearl Harbor was to dispell the myths about the events that led up to WWII and our attitudes toward Navel Power at the time. These are very important concepts, if you are to understand WHY we did not know about the attack beforehand.

This was the only part of your post that poses any real arguement.

So the History Channel shows about it and that book called "Pearl Harbor, Mother of All Conspiracies" were wrong? I haven't done enough research on Pearl Harbor to know everything that happened. I'll do more proper research on it.

I'm not saying you're wrong about that. You could be right. Can I ask a favor of you though? Since you seem to be so knowledable on the Pearl Harbor incident, can you debunk the following article for me during your free time? I just want to know all of the facts.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/pearl/www.geocities.com/Pentagon/6315/pearl.html

Thanks in advance.

I'm not trying to make enemies with you. I just want proper arguements from people and not stupid assumptions.