The real America! 9/11 and all. The thread you've been waiting for.

Bustaballs said:
I'm sorry. I didn't realise that professionals that are legally qualified to work in the Department of Physics and Astronomy at Brigham Young University were not officially qualified by sheep of the government. I also showed you proof IN MY POST that showed you were false.





Those people ARE EXPERTS more so than the people that worked on the official stories and people that worked on the 9/11 commission book. Just because you say they aren't experts doesn't make it so. Their degrees prove it.



You are. You follow everything your government says to you. I'm looking at all sides of every story and doing research on all of it. You just hear assume anything that goes against the official stories are "conspiracy theorys" when they are proven to and endless degree.

Some official stories = Pancake THEORY and domino THEORY. All of these and all other have been proven false. I can look up information on the people if you like. Once again, you are doing exactly what the theorist following sheep do.

Make a valid arguement by trying to disprove what is being said instead of claiming all of my sources as false. Jesus... I never knew there could be people like you.


Edit: Until I get a valid post in here, I'm not replying to idiot sheep. This thread was meant to spread the truth and for people who agree with the official stories to prove it false which they have failed to do.

by looks of things, you yourself is a sheep or more like a goat. you belive every holly hob story that oppose that of the goverment. You are eatting the propeganda nonsence that they are spreading. Now I will go as far to say the goverment did have a hand in orcristraing 9/11 and pearl harbo and veinum as far as that goes, but helocopter fireing missile at the towers.:shok: How many people are inn the new york area you dont think that someone would see this mysterious helocopter. As for flight 93 and pentagon, I have no standing on either one thoughs. If flight 93 was a hoax where are the people the boarded that plane "one them a network reporter" If it was a missle why whould there not be a larger hole and if it was a plane where the evidence of the plane?
 
Bajaratt said:
There's something you're not getting when it comes to debating. When your position is built on the evidence, and that evidence is proven to be false or unreliable, your position fails. You're listing off source after source of things agreeing with you, but if the sources aren't credible then neither is your entire theory.

No one has succeeded in proving that any of my sources were incorrect except Doctork and there was a explination for that.

Ok.. this is the last stupid post I'm replying to.
 
hellstorm said:
by looks of things, you yourself is a sheep or more like a goat. you belive every holly hob story that oppose that of the goverment. You are eatting the propeganda nonsence that they are spreading. Now I will go as far to say the goverment did have a hand in orcristraing 9/11 and pearl harbo and veinum as far as that goes, but helocopter fireing missile at the towers.:shok: How many people are inn the new york area you dont think that someone would see this mysterious helocopter. As for flight 93 and pentagon, I have no standing on either one thoughs. If flight 93 was a hoax where are the people the boarded that plane "one them a network reporter" If it was a missle why whould there not be a larger hole and if it was a plane where the evidence of the plane?

I said multiple times that I don't believe the missle helicopter theory because there is little evidence (almost none) to back that up. As far as flight 93 is concerned, I also said I don't believe the missle theory on that either. A missle would explode on impact and cause a different type of damage than what happened.

We don't know what really hit the pentagon. There wasn't enough evidence. Only claims by the government. If you look at the David Ray Griffin speeches, he makes some very valid arguements about it. So as far as the pentagon goes, I don't think a missle hit it but I'm not too sure about that specific airplane hitting it either.

Thanks for a somewhat proper reply. =)
 
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Bustaballs said:
This was the only part of your post that poses any real arguement.

So the History Channel shows about it and that book called "Pearl Harbor, Mother of All Conspiracies" were wrong? I haven't done enough research on Pearl Harbor to know everything that happened. I'll do more proper research on it.

I'm not saying you're wrong about that. You could be right. Can I ask a favor of you though? Since you seem to be so knowledable on the Pearl Harbor incident, can you debunk the following article for me during your free time? I just want to know all of the facts.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/pearl/www.geocities.com/Pentagon/6315/pearl.html

Thanks in advance.

I'm not trying to make enemies with you. I just want proper arguements from people and not stupid assumptions.

Never saw anything to that effect on the History Channel, but I suppose it could have aired. I can tell you that any program that said the knew an attack was comming at Pearl Harbor (this is key, because saying that we expected an attck from Japan SOMWHERE is factually correct. We just didn't expect them to try anything as ambitious as Pearl Harbor) is, IMO, a complete work of fiction. There is no evidence to support anything BUT the opposite was true. The same goes for the book. There are pleanty of god books on Pearl out ther, such as Day of Imfamy by Watler Lord and A Dawn We Slept by Donald M. Goldstein. The first several chapters of Flyboys (James Bradley) gives a no-BS view of the world at the start of the 1900's and the conditions that shaped Japan in the years leading up to WWII. It is a brutal read, however, and spares no country their complicity in the world that was forged in the early 1900's.

I'll look into the link, but let me say now that I believe the answers you are looking for may be found in the books I mention above. I have NEVER seen any credible evidence that leads me to think we had any pre-warning of an attack at Pearl Harbor.
 
Really, everyone here seems to have overlooked the obvious litmus test for this whole conspiracy theory.

We are a country of instant gratification and news NOW at any expense, even the expence of accuracy. Despite this, NO MAJOR MEDIE OUTLET HAS PICKED UP AND RUN WITH THIS. Why? Don't even TRY to tell me it's because the media, as a whole, is on the administration's side. I don't buy that for one second. This is a media that seems almost gleeful at any news they can dig up that casts the administration iin any sort of bad light. Combine that with the instant fame and fortune that could be reaped by any reported who could get the goods on this and you have something that couldn't have been kept out of the news for any length of time. SOMEONE, either foriegn of domestic, would have made this story their (very profitable) career. No one has, not even Michael Moore, lord of all things anti-administration in the media, seems willing to touch it.

Does every believer of this theory REALLY believe that there are NO people in the massive investigation that took place who cannot be bullied, bought, or bufuddld? No you REALLY think that NOT ONE of these people would have come forward, with the evidence to make their claims uncontestable?

Why hasn't the DNC went wild over this?

Why hasn't Congressional Democrats, eager to regain seats for their party, gone apeshit over this? The Senate? Am I believe there are NO Democrats with balls in either?

Why haven't the independents gone after this as their lone campain issue?

Why hasn't Al Jazeera aired this as "proof" that AMericas is indeed the "Great Saten?"

Why is this only seen on the internet?

Why? Because if it were worth the pages it is posted on, they wouldn't have to. Because they have shit, that's why. It's total hogwash and no one with any ability to smell bullshit is buying, that's why.
 
Doctork said:
Never saw anything to that effect on the History Channel, but I suppose it could have aired. I can tell you that any program that said the knew an attack was comming at Pearl Harbor (this is key, because saying that we expected an attck from Japan SOMWHERE is factually correct. We just didn't expect them to try anything as ambitious as Pearl Harbor) is, IMO, a complete work of fiction. There is no evidence to support anything BUT the opposite was true. The same goes for the book. There are pleanty of god books on Pearl out ther, such as Day of Imfamy by Watler Lord and A Dawn We Slept by Donald M. Goldstein. The first several chapters of Flyboys (James Bradley) gives a no-BS view of the world at the start of the 1900's and the conditions that shaped Japan in the years leading up to WWII. It is a brutal read, however, and spares no country their complicity in the world that was forged in the early 1900's.

I'll look into the link, but let me say now that I believe the answers you are looking for may be found in the books I mention above. I have NEVER seen any credible evidence that leads me to think we had any pre-warning of an attack at Pearl Harbor.

Thanks for the reply. I'll look into the books you mentioned. I can't afford any of them right now. As for the the History Channel things...

http://store.aetv.com/html/product/index.jhtml?id=73190 - Conspiracy?: FDR and Pearl Harbor DVD (This just brings up some questionable things and makes some points.)

http://store.aetv.com/html/product/index.jhtml?id=72425 - History Undercover: The Other Tragedy at Pearl Harbor DVD (I just saw this one.. I'm not too sure about it.)

I cant seem to find the one I'm thinking of. I could have sworn there was another. Hmm..
 
I saw a TV programme once about people that insist there have never been any moon landings. It was quite convincing at the time.
 
I know, I know, theses guys are controlled by the Government...

Busta.jpg
 
Bustaballs said:
Thanks for the reply. I'll look into the books you mentioned. I can't afford any of them right now. As for the the History Channel things...

http://store.aetv.com/html/product/index.jhtml?id=73190 - Conspiracy?: FDR and Pearl Harbor DVD (This just brings up some questionable things and makes some points.)

http://store.aetv.com/html/product/index.jhtml?id=72425 - History Undercover: The Other Tragedy at Pearl Harbor DVD (I just saw this one.. I'm not too sure about it.)

I cant seem to find the one I'm thinking of. I could have sworn there was another. Hmm..

Conpiracy looks at common conspiracys and examines their merits and claims. I wouldn't take it as an endorcement of the theory by the History Channel, especially considering they have run numerous programs that directly conflict with the Pearl Harbor Theory.

I might have actually seen this program, but would have paid it little mind as it addressed theories that I'd already dismissed as untrue. I doubt it had anything I'd not heard already or I'd remember it.

The second link, well it speaks for itself:

On a calm Sunday morning over fifty years ago, the naval base at Pearl Harbor was rocked by a massive explosion. But this tragedy--which claimed 163 lives and wounded almost 400--occurred on May 21, 1944, two and a half years after the "Day of Infamy."

This had nothing to do with the Japaneese attack on Pearl Harbor, it took place during the ramp-up to the invasion of Saipan in 1944.
 
Tagrineth said:
I saw a TV programme once about people that insist there have never been any moon landings. It was quite convincing at the time.

LOL, yeah, I saw that, as well.

Funny stuff.
 
All in all, the sources provided are... amusing, at least.

I especially liked following a link on a page accusing the US of using VX samples to contaminate Iraqi warheads, and then destroying the samples after the UN started asking questions. The link, to the BBC, said roughly the same thing... if you transposed the S and the N. That is, the UN inspectors had their own samples that they were accused of using to contaminate, and yes the US did urge their destruction, on the basis that without samples there could be no further accusations.

The Pearl Harbor nonsense is the same old crap that gets trotted out year after year, none of it conclusive, most of it flat out incorrect, and as a general rule, completely irrelevant. The part about Hitler being afraid of the US military was particularly funny. Here's a clue: Our military SUCKED ASS between the end of WWI and the beginning of our involvement in WWII. The Wermacht would have wiped the floor with us if they'd been able to stage a serious invasion. It would have ultimately been a case of the fly conquering the flypaper, but delusions of grandeur were part and parcel of the Nazi leadership.

As far as controlled demolition goes... Ridiculous. For a variety of reasons. First, the tower collapse is actually quite consistent with the "pancake" theory. It's happened before, albeit never on that scale. Second, assuming demo was used... it couldn't have been in place before the crash. They'd have had to wire the entire building (as there was no way of knowing precisely where the plane would impact), which obviously wasn't the case as the demo would have almost undoubtedly detonated prematurely when the planes impacted the tower. So that would require someone to go INTO the building, after the crash, with demo, set it up in the blast area, in 500C minimum fires, under the eyes of emergency personnel and fleeing officeworkers.

Think about that for a second. Unlikely, to say the least. I imagine you'd have a hard time finding a single person willing to set demo under those conditions, much less TWO full teams capable of wiring a building that size, in a matter of MINUTES.

People who complain about the pancake theory forget one crucial point: It wasn't a case of one floor falling onto another floor, and so on. Previous incidences have been like that, and portray a certain pattern of debris and level of destruction. This, however, was a case of 30+ floors falling on one floor. 500,000 tons of steel and concrete impacting at, oh, call it 5 fps. Then 10. Then 20. Pulverizing not simply the floors beneath the falling segment, but the floors OF the falling segment. Twisting steel into red-hot pretzels, turning concrete into fine powder, and generally demolishing everything in the most direct path between it and the ground.

People say "Oh, but the fire couldn't have caused the collapse!". Perhaps, by itself, pumping a thousand gallons of jet fuel into the tower and setting it alight might not have.

Of course, the fuel was delivered by slightly more energetic means.

That is to say, someone crashed a FREAKING AIRLINER into the building at high speed. Destroying better than half the support beams on a particular facing, THEN setting a high-temperature fire inside it. The core of the building was obviously breached as well, given the well documented fires in the elevator shafts.

Changes the equation somewhat, no?

Frankly, I'd put a lot more credibility into the "Government allowed it to happen" conspiracy theories, and I still think those are a load of crap.
 
A list of links that should provide HOURS (or days) of reading on Pearl Harbor.

Any Answers about Pearl Harbor may by found here (likely without fail) ans they include links to original investigation reports and commision hearing findings.

The last takes specific aim at the Myths of Pearl Harbor.

http://history.acusd.edu/gen/WW2Timeline/RD-PEARL.html

ftp://ftp.purdue.edu/pub/Liberal-Arts/History/pha/pearl.harbor/knox/knox.txt

http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/pha/congress/part_0.html

http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/pha/invest.html

http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/pha/extra.html

http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/myths/index.html
 
:biggrin:
Doctork said:
A list of links that should provide HOURS (or days) of reading on Pearl Harbor.

Any Answers about Pearl Harbor may by found here (likely without fail) ans they include links to original investigation reports and commision hearing findings.

The last takes specific aim at the Myths of Pearl Harbor.

http://history.acusd.edu/gen/WW2Timeline/RD-PEARL.html

ftp://ftp.purdue.edu/pub/Liberal-Arts/History/pha/pearl.harbor/knox/knox.txt

http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/pha/congress/part_0.html

http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/pha/invest.html

http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/pha/extra.html

http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/myths/index.html

Thank you, now I can call up my history porfessor and tell him he did a shitty job teaching the class about World War 2.
 
Doctork said:
Really, everyone here seems to have overlooked the obvious litmus test for this whole conspiracy theory.

We are a country of instant gratification and news NOW at any expense, even the expence of accuracy. Despite this, NO MAJOR MEDIE OUTLET HAS PICKED UP AND RUN WITH THIS. Why? Don't even TRY to tell me it's because the media, as a whole, is on the administration's side. I don't buy that for one second. This is a media that seems almost gleeful at any news they can dig up that casts the administration iin any sort of bad light. Combine that with the instant fame and fortune that could be reaped by any reported who could get the goods on this and you have something that couldn't have been kept out of the news for any length of time. SOMEONE, either foriegn of domestic, would have made this story their (very profitable) career. No one has, not even Michael Moore, lord of all things anti-administration in the media, seems willing to touch it.

Good post. The American media has proven themselves time and time again to not go for anything that goes against the government's stories. The media even proves that now. When I flip on the TV and watch the news, all I hear about in Iraq is the American deaths. Even if the things are mentioned, it's very briefly on late night or early morning TV and tossed aside as though it was nothing.

If you like, I can go through my resources and get a pretty large list of people who tried or are trying to tell their story and got completely ignored by the media and the government.

I know of a couple of things you can check out right now.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3453261789658676035 - A great documentary on the mainstream hidden happenings of what the US government has been doing to the world since post WWII.

http://www.arcticbeacon.com/24-Jun-2005.html - A hero janitor of the WTC that saved many lives and is a eyewitness of many things that happened in the WTC. Here is his story that the mainstream news won't cover.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3221571017565436923 (I didn't really like how the host guy talked. He talked as though nothing he said could be false. Even though that may be true, I don't like it. The video does go into a ton of good points though.)

Alex Jones claims to have proof of government funding the mainstream media. I'll have to look into it more and see for myself.

Doctork said:
Does every believer of this theory REALLY believe that there are NO people in the massive investigation that took place who cannot be bullied, bought, or bufuddld? No you REALLY think that NOT ONE of these people would have come forward, with the evidence to make their claims uncontestable?

David Ray Griffin has mentioned a lot of this in this speech and his book:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6837001821567284154 - David Ray Griffin gives a speech that talks about the falsity and misleadings in the 9/11 Commission.

Doctork said:
Why hasn't the DNC went wild over this?

Why hasn't Congressional Democrats, eager to regain seats for their party, gone apeshit over this? The Senate? Am I believe there are NO Democrats with balls in either?

I can't really go into this right now because I don't have active information on me but I do remember it being mentioned a lot in different parts of my resources sources. I'll look into it again and discuss it later.


Doctork said:
Why haven't the independents gone after this as their lone campain issue?

I don't understand what you mean by "this". What specificly? The 9/11 conspiracy in general or a specific part of it?

Doctork said:
Why hasn't Al Jazeera aired this as "proof" that AMericas is indeed the "Great Saten?"

I've never even heard of this until now so I have no clue of what you're talking about.


Doctork said:
Why is this only seen on the internet?

O.o It's in tons of books, tons of movies, tons of local and underground magazines and newspapers. Tons of speeches through out the US. Tons of protests. Tons of everything. There are even court cases on it. That is if "it" is referring to the 9/11 conspiracy. The internet is just the easiest access to it and because so many people use the internet and you can't bribe the internet, that's where they put it. The internet is the ultimate place of freedom.



Doctork said:
Why? Because if it were worth the pages it is posted on, they wouldn't have to. Because they have shit, that's why. It's total hogwash and no one with any ability to smell bullshit is buying, that's why.

If you honestly believe that then I don't know what to tell you. If you can look at my resources and read all of the articles and watch all of the videos and still tell me with a straight face that everything the government told us about 9/11 is 100% true then I seriously seriously don't know what to tell you.
 
Torqameda said:
:biggrin:

Thank you, now I can call up my history porfessor and tell him he did a shitty job teaching the class about World War 2.

And that would be because?

Don't tell me there's Professors out there actually BUYING that we knew about Pearl In advance.
 
Bustaballs said:
http://www.arcticbeacon.com/24-Jun-2005.html - A hero janitor of the WTC that saved many lives and is a eyewitness of many things that happened in the WTC. Here is his story that the mainstream news won't cover.

He HAS been covered. The history channel did an expose on him not too long ago. The guy has also been honored at the White House on several occassions. His co-workers and several others in the floors and lobby above him near the elevator shafts were burned when burning fuel came pouring down the shafts. The first BOOM he heard was probably the plane, the second probably being the elevators that came crashing down the shafts.
 
Bustaballs said:
http://www.arcticbeacon.com/24-Jun-2005.html - A hero janitor of the WTC that saved many lives and is a eyewitness of many things that happened in the WTC. Here is his story that the mainstream news won't cover.

So, I got curious, and clicked the link

The Artic Beacon said:
Declared a hero for saving numerous lives at Ground Zero, he was the janitor on duty the morning of 9/11 who heard and felt explosions rock the basement sub-levels of the north tower just seconds before the jetliner struck the top floors.

So you can't argue that he wasn't there, or didn't know what was happening. So credibility checks out.

He not only claims he felt explosions coming from below the first sub-level while working in the basement, he says the walls were cracking around him and he pulled a man to safety by the name of Felipe David, who was severely burned from the basement explosions.

He 'felt' he heard explosions. And it would take awfully alot of explosives to cause the walls to crack. And is there an eyewitness account from Felipe David? I didn't see any. He knows what happened, and with this guy 'feeling' he heard explosions, is completely word of mouth. He went on a gut feeling he heard an explosion. In a basement, things echo, and if a large object fell, or crashed, it would create a pretty big echo. And explosion would sound differently, but sometimes, they are very similar to some people, for some people hear differently than others.

It's a story about 14 people who felt and heard the same explosion and even saw Rodriguez, moments after the airplane hit, take David to safety, after he was burnt so bad from the basement explosion flesh was hanging from his face and both arms

They 'felt' they heard an explosion. And how would he have known whether or not the plane had made contact? There were explosions after the plane I believe, not to sure on that. So what the 'witnesses' may have thought to be a plane, could have really have been the explosions from the plane after the impact.

But before Rodriguez had time to think, co-worker Felipe David stormed into the basement office with severe burns on his face and arms, screaming for help and yelling "explosion! explosion! explosion!"

David had been in front of a nearby freight elevator on sub-level 1 about 400 feet from the office when fire burst out of the elevator shaft, causing his injuries.

"He was burned terribly," said Rodriguez. "The skin was hanging off his hands and arms. His injuries couldn't have come from the airplane above, but only from a massive explosion below. I don't care what the government says, what scientists say. I saw a man burned terribly from a fire that was caused from an explosion below.

I don't know if someone with severe burns would run into a room and yell explosions before help me. But that's just me, could've been what the guy actually said.

"I'm very certain, I'll give it 90%" that Alshehri was casing the towers before the attacks," said Rodriguez.

90% sure that Alshehri was casing the towers? Um, yea, wasn't he saying that the government planned the whole thing? That contradicts each other.

Besides the explosions, Rodriguez also has provided testimony to the 9/11 Commission that he stumbled across one of the supposed 19 Arab hijackers inside the WTC several months before 9/11

"I had just finished cleaning the bathroom and this guy asks me, 'Excuse me, how many public bathrooms are in this area?'" Rodriguez told the 9/11 Commission. "Coming from the school of the 1993 [Trade Center] bombing, I found it very strange. I didn't forget about it"

Rodriguez, claims he saw United Airlines Flight 175 hijacker Mohand Alshehri in June 2001, telling an FBI agent about the incident a month after the attacks. Never hearing back from the bureau, he later learned agents never followed up on the story.

Yea, the bathroom question would be suspiscious, but not enough to say he was one of the hujackers. I mean, many people do look alike, and maybe the terrorists scanned the buildings to check to see where there are weak points and what not. But weren't there security at the entrances? So how could Alsheri have cases enough explosives to cause the WTC to collapse? 'Cause obiously, the large amount of explosives in the WTC in 1993 wasn't enough.

"Even if the case goes no farther, I feel we have scored a victory by winning this first battle," said Rodriguez. "At least the judge seems willing to listen which is a victory of sorts. However, I sincerely hope we can eventually take the case all the way to trial and reveal the truth to the American people about 9/11."

I'm sorry, but this guy seems like an ass to me because of this quote. ""However, I sincerely hope we can eventually take the case all the way to trial and reveal the truth to the American people about 9/11."" Do the family's victims really want to think, or know, that the government planned their fallen loved ones' deaths? It will just make things worse for the victims' families (My family lost a family friend in the North Tower).
 
Doctork said:
And that would be because?

Don't tell me there's Professors out there actually BUYING that we knew about Pearl In advance.

Actually, my history professor did buy it, and told us about it for several days. And being the teacher, and having to believe the information he gave us was true, we believed it. He was off by alot though.
 
alanon said:
He HAS been covered. The history channel did an expose on him not too long ago. The guy has also been honored at the White House on several occassions. His co-workers and several others in the floors and lobby above him near the elevator shafts were burned when burning fuel came pouring down the shafts. The first BOOM he heard was probably the plane, the second probably being the elevators that came crashing down the shafts.

I've heard of him, too.

He is usually mentioned in any documentatry about 9/11 that details anything about people who escaped from the building.

I'd hardly say he's been ignored. Maybe the nightly news didn't pick up on him, but many others have, to be sure, in the years since 2001.
 
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