The Squeeky Wheel Gets the Oil.

Darkdante said:
Geez....

From what I can see this is mainly about pride and very very little about anything else.
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Yeah, something tells me that if they increased the damage output of other jobs and left Rangers alone, they'd still whine like this.
 
The most complaining I've seen nins do is laugh that the price of an enmity swap-in piece that they never bothered getting just went up 60k..
 
for nin, i don't think the nerf is a big deal on exp pts, but it was very significant when we had our nins tanking Fafnir, and i am sure the change will make it difficult for them to tank other NM as well.
 
CubsWoo said:
I think the people happiest with the ranged attack nerf are the other melee jobs who DO go out there and work their asses off for the best.

I'd need an Excel spreadsheet to track the number of times where my Monk, despite having nearly every 'uber' piece available, would have my flag up while random shitty gimpy Ranger 2-3 levels below me saddled a chocobo and headed off to party. I know multiple Rangers I leveled with in the Jungles that were out mashing Maat while I was still slogging through Quicksand Caves and the Nest. It seemed less like a passionate job and more a meal ticket to 75. Hell, given enough seed money you could probably get RNG to 75 in less than 45 days.

Now, the playing field is a bit more level. No more will 4-5 people sit in a party, with other melee seeking while the leader demands a RNG. No more running to a spot, passing a RNG with their flag up, and having people say "Oh, that's the AFK RNG, too bad we didn't get him instead." No more prima donna Rangers demanding 6k+/hr from a pickup party or they'll disband/warp without warning - if they don't have 'cannon pt onry' in their comment.

Yes, Rangers pay more per party. But that's what you agreed to when you took up the job. If you don't like the cost, level Woodworking and Alchemy or quit the job. And to be honest, I'd be happy with having to buy/synth some arrows when I've basically paid for all my endgame gear by about 52.
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You know what makes this point even better? Greenrose. 60rng/12nin (probably already level 75 by now). That gil seller got more invites even when people knew she was a gil seller and with an extremely gimped sub solely on the fact that she is a rng. Where is the fairness in that?

Strid said:
Anderithe said:
You can gripe all you want about this killing your job, but the fact is that it's NO worse then the imfamous penta nerf. It's not even THAT bad.
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Sentence number two is wrong. It's equally as bad.
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Agreed and yet people dealt with it. People still play drg and some do it well enough to get the recognition they deserve. I told this story once before but I'll tell it again. I partied with a drg, she got more tp faster than I could as a thf and with extremely good gear. We skillchained every mob and she did good damage and yet when she left, the entire party complained she sucked. Funny thing was, it was a rng inciting the whole complaining. She did her job and she did it well but apparently that wasn't good enough for some...


Now let me explain to everyone the prevailing strategy on Kirin(its a huge secret so hopefully I won't be blacklisted by all the god ls). Throw as many rngs as possible until he dies. Thats basically it. Sometimes there's a SC and blm's get to MB but really the damage is all dealt by rngs. Where is the skill in that? Where is the fun in that? All you rangers think this is the greatest thing but what about all the other jobs? Should everyone else level ranger just so we get a chance to fight Kirin too? I know, we all should have been rangers. They deal the highest damage, can sub nin and get no damage. We can all do cannon parties and have tons of fun being the same. Heck we don't even need mages or a tank for that matter, they are a waste of a slot anyways. When it comes time and we all get to gods and eventually Kirin, we can all trade hate just like cannon party cept with 18 people.

_Neosquall_ said:
I don't see why melee complained previously about not getting parties, did they suddenly forget they can't make parties? Seriously, If I was a dragoon I would've hit 75 ten times faster than any other(considering I had the gil to get above average equipment) because I would have...MADE A FUCKIN PARTY. The damage is already done. We are not better than you anymore. We hope you're happy.
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Its hard to make a party with limited resources. When there is only 3 whms your level and they are all in a party there is not much you can do. I've tried assembling parties when I could but unless the resources are there people do not want to wait. Most people are impatient and that is a lot of the reason people chose to become a ranger. They want an easy and powerful job to get to 75. They got sick of waiting for an invite and unarguably rangers were the best. Everyone and I mean EVERYONE had them on a pedistal. Ironically even the people that hate the job and can't get invites because of them still hold them on that pedistal.

I think the nerf was bad. It was far more than I had ever expected but in reality it has been a long time coming. Rangers should not have the right to control a party because they are in-demand and they do. When a ranger says something, everyone shuts up for fear the ranger will leave. I am not saying completely nerfing the damage was the right way to fix it but its a step in the right direction. I honestly hope they will address some of the problems from the update and atleast make the ranged attacks more accurate. I have no problem with rangers being almost 100% accurate, after all, each shot costs them gil, but to have 100% acc and high end damage is too much.

And don't blame me. Like Peregrine said, rangers are just as much to blame as anyone else. You flocked to the imbalance, SE saw this and had to change it.

Nasya, you make some good arguements; however, a lot of them are not reasonable. Gimping is always the best choice. The only other alternative is to increase the stats of other jobs but by doing so this makes all the mobs weaker. So the mobs also have to be adjusted. So instead of adjusting one job, you want SE to adjust the entire game? Its just not reasonable. Not to mention even if you did adjust everyone else, rangers would still be mad since they are no longer the high end damage dealer they thought they were.

Agreed, SC with thf or sub thief will almost be impossible. If the mob moves, it makes it hard for a thief to get SATA off or possible lose all the TP. And to make it worse a black mage cannot stun. If you are doing a SC and the thief is about to do SATA, the blm should already be casting for a MB or be about to. This makes the combination of a thief or theif sub and ranger(I agree its usually an optimal setup) to be a very poor one. I think this is something SE will have to adjust in the future.

Nasya said:
Some suggest that this change may have been made in response to rangers being used so heavily against HNM. It is true many groups depended on them to do damage to the various Gods and HNM, but you cannot blame the groups for doing this... nor the job. As you designed these NM (King Behemoth and Kirin in particular), one cannot fight them safely while standing still. Their AoE attacks are devastating, and the only logical response is to keep the mob moving so that it cannot get that ability off often. Since moving targets are very difficult to hit with melee damage, we as players had no choice but to depend on Magical and Ranged damage....
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I agree this is now a huge problem. Rangers and Black mages are really the only worthwhile damage dealers for HNM that require kiting. A melee cannot attack a moving mob and this update makes things very difficult. However, its been less than a week and people are still adjusting to the new update. I think given some time people will be able to come up with some decent strategies and they will probably involve several jobs now instead of just blm and rng. Or possibly just blms... Now a friend of mine(he's a ranger) suggested people stop and think. Barrage is a 5 minute timer and coincidentally, so is Shadowbind. This is one way to deal with HNMs. A single rng shadowbinds and all the rangers can move to their "sweet spot" and all barrage at a specific clock time. This is just one alternative but I am sure if people stop complaining and take a moment to adjust, there will be more.

Nasya said:
The reasons to play a game like this are various. For some, it is about meeting people. For some, they like to pretend they are mystical creatures with magical powers... Others, enjoy becoming known for their kindness, accomplishments, and ideas about the game... and for some, it is about the hunt... What was done to these NM, was a huge slap in the face to those who enjoy games such as FFXI because there are rare mobs they get to go hunt... While there are a number of NM that are still in tact, if you felt it was ok to ruin... Yes, *RUIN* these NM, what is to say that similar changes will not be made in the future?

The main complaint about NM was that they were monopolized, that it was difficult to kill them, and so it was difficult to obtain these items. The extent to which this complaint was true probably varied from server to server, but I can say in confidence that most of the people who complained about this problem where not people who played to hunt, in fact they probably hated the process. Thus, turning the NM drops into ra/ex really did little to help them...
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If people really enjoy camping and hunting NMs, there are 100's of others they can camp. If they need to make gil, the game as a multitude of other gil making resources. I suggest they adjust or quit. The choice is theirs.

I tend to agree with almost every little point after that.

Skaw said:
Nasya, you're the first person I've come across that actually claims the Enmity loss from Shadow absorption is too great.
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Yah, people told me it was harder to tank as a ninja but it was not enough to deastroy ninja as a tank and they were skilled enough to deal with the change.

And lastly:
vang said:
Meeze just owned you all.

I have said it time and time again, get the fuck out of jeuno on your gimped LFG DRG or MNK and go farm, yet looks like you don't have to do that now since SE is once again handing more tools for you to become successful. Seriously pathetic.

But in the end it does not matter, you could start the successful people over on a level 1 character with nothing but an adventurers certificate and a dagger and in a month he would probably have more gil than most of you just through the ability and know how.

I can't wait to see how much of you actually have bounding boots, empress pin, or peacock amulet in a month. I am willing to bet none of you still. Because you are too fucking lazy.


Shut the fuck up and close this thread, you lose people.
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Shut up. Do you actively check peopple who are seeking in Jueno and find their gear is lacking? Of course thats the reason they don't have a party. The party all the way in crawler's nest magically checked them and realized their gear was bad and decided not to invite them. Had nothing to do with their job. Do you know how much gil everyone has too? They should spend every waking moment in this game gil farming because Vang told them too. Yah, sitting in Jueno doing nothing but staring at an AH hoping someone randomly put a Scorp HArness on for 5 gil is pointless and it could be used for farming, but when you have gil already and good gear, no one wants to farm further. Its very possible, they are seeking in Jueno and, get this, not at the computer. I sometimes clean my room or do laundry while seeking as a thief and if I can't do that I farm.

Cubs owned you and you are just too stupid to realize it.
 
Meeze couldn't own his way out of a penny title transfer. You just happen to agree with the poor position. Vang, you said it yourself...the invites on a thief suck. You're saying you play thief gimped then?
 
Peregrine said:
Meeze couldn't own his way out of a penny title transfer. You just happen to agree with the poor position. Vang, you said it yourself...the invites on a thief suck. You're saying you play thief gimped then?
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invites must suck when they have to follow the trail blazed by a 70+ thf who is just barely ditching his lvl 14 str rings to get the NQ dex rings.

Oh, and update on owning thf's in TP, i ate up a 69 thf when i was 68 DRK doing dhamels in bibiki bay. i forget who our nin tank was here, but i think he posts here occasionaly.

and lavi, cubs and vang were talking about two different situations. cubs is a very well equiped mnk, me and vang were talking about the gimp ones.

and about checking, i know on my mains who i'm going to invite when i
/sea the jobs i'm looking for. i rarely limit myself to flag up. i see familiar names as being good/well equiped players i ask to pt.

and i am always checking bazaars so i see a lot of peoples gear, like high lvl thf's with over 450 delay on their weapons.
 
meeze said:
and lavi, cubs and vang were talking about two different situations. cubs is a very well equiped mnk, me and vang were talking about the gimp ones.
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Not to kick a sleeping dog or anything but usually i'm pimping the best gear for 64 you can use save mebbe some snipers or a venerer ... yet i got my ass apperantly "handed to me" :roll: over my gear which no one decided to ask about before calling me a gimp, you might think to actually weigh the facts before making assumptions or jumping on the bandwagon to defend someone's rationale about this game.
 
Yah but Vang's point is all people seeking as DRG or MNK suck and don't deserve an invite because they have shit gear. Cubs proved him wrong. He has the best gear I have seen on a monk and yet still got shit for invites. I'd assume he got more invites when KRT was a viable option but even then I bet he still had to make his own party. Cubs still had to seek for hours and hours with great gear and why? Because he was a mnk. There is no other reason.

And stop with the stupid melee crybaby insults. Its stupid. How many people here actually sent a message or email to SE stating "Ranger suck, please gimp them"? I certainly did not and I can bet not many did. What really happened was SE saw the overwhelming abundance of rangers, ranger cannon parties and ranger dominated HNM/god fights and decided things needed to be adjusted. Do you think they just make the game and never once observed the results? But hey if you think whining is what made them nerf ranger so badly, I am sure Vang can bitch a lot more and get them to change it back. :evil:
 
meeze said:
and i am always checking bazaars so i see a lot of peoples gear, like high lvl thf's with over 450 delay on their weapons.
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Just for the record dual wield cuts down on delay time a lot. I can get down to about 40-50% loss in delay time if I am not mistaken with proper equipment and no haste. So delay time is not a huge problem for thfs. Accuracy and hitting for more than 0 is.
 
you have decent gear mokk, i checked you yesterday, wouldn't necessarily call you gimp, but ya snipers would help out a lot. you can see where you can upgrade, you know what can get better. but lots of people show up with nq 36 ring and a phalanx ring on a melee. dumb stuff like that. no hands or neck cause a "friend is borrowing it" thats gimp.

i would say with your crafting, you should be able to afford better gear, but thats me.
 
Lavi said:
meeze said:
and i am always checking bazaars so i see a lot of peoples gear, like high lvl thf's with over 450 delay on their weapons.
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Just for the record dual wield cuts down on delay time a lot. I can get down to about 40-50% loss in delay time if I am not mistaken with proper equipment and no haste. So delay time is not a huge problem for thfs. Accuracy and hitting for more than 0 is.
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Sure, it'd just cost you over 50mil in equipment or you'd end up sacrificing too much damage
 
Lavi said:
hitting for more than 0 is.
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My poor tarutaru, thats why at 54 Im doing Victory Ring and Snipers instead of only Acc+ on my TP gear.

And generally most endgame thf's i see are pretty pimped out, its usually thfs below 55 that have the problem. And its not like it should be expected that you have to have SH at 57, by 60-61 is understandable, I'll try to get mine by around 57 though.
 
i could, currently deciding what i want to blow a hole in my gil stash with right now. I'm rich by no means but i have enough cash to at least pick up a couple things i'm lacking. Currently i split a brown belt, fumas, and o kotes with another dood on my link, kinda stuck on the fence thinking about either getting a couple of those for myself or going with the acc rings over the str ones. Seeing as i could actually buff acc cheaper with food i'm actually kinda curious: Should i eqbuff str, haste, and attk or should i pump more cash in to acc? Either way i'ma sit around forever lfg, it's the life of a monk, luckily it gives me time to work up other jobs, farm or camp. No one can claim innocence to random generalizations thanks to this update including myself, I've noticed 90% of the time updates bring out the worst of alot of us on the boards. :oops:
 
meeze said:
Peregrine said:
Meeze couldn't own his way out of a penny title transfer. You just happen to agree with the poor position. Vang, you said it yourself...the invites on a thief suck. You're saying you play thief gimped then?
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invites must suck when they have to follow the trail blazed by a 70+ thf who is just barely ditching his lvl 14 str rings to get the NQ dex rings.
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In my ring slot, I choose from +6 dex, +6 agility, Sniper's Rings, or RACC rings. That's just on my rings. You know why I'm interested in buying grace rings? For BC's and capped events. So don't assume that what you see is what you get. Especially on a thief. Pardon me for choosing macro swapins for scenarios a thief needs to cover as opposed to looking good while standing in Jeuno like some artificial elitist dark knight who sees haku eyes in others' bazaars then sends unsolicited tells to them to synth the cluster, for a price of course, like a the beggar they really are and not the "player playin' tha game" like they think they are.

And you know what? For the millions in rings I have alone, they still see a thief looking for party. But go ahead and whore your 2-bit drks rule monotony. We haven't heard that enough on top of your whining about SE hammering elitists.

Don't quit your day job begging people to synth their clusters for 50k. I get the feeling you were one of the people who just whored NM's all day.
 
there is a thread you posted when you were lvl 70ish where you said you had, up to that point, macro'd in the lvl 14 str rings to your ws's. here is the link:

http://www.qcdn.org/viewtopic.php?t=11608

now tell me mr millions in rings, what the hell were you doing around lvl 70, 10 levels after assasin, just barely buying your first pair of agi rings, "cheapest agi rings" at that. come on now, everyone knows you were a gimp until you...i'll leave that alone.

And no i don't like to NM hunt, but while looking in bazaars which is one of my pastimes, if i see a complete set of eyes i ask if they need it synthed. offering my service for a fee is far from begging.



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The problem, Meeze, was always that it didn't matter how I geared up, what I put in my search comment, etc. People saw RNG in the LFG list and MNK in the same list and I'd venture 80%+ of the time (if not more often) the /tell goes to the RNG and I keep watching Legends of the Hidden Temple on GAS.

And yeah, I won't argue there aren't gimped melees (the 50's DRG that didn't have a headpiece comes to mind, as does the 62 DRK/NIN that dual wielded swords) but people looked at job first and gear second for a very, very long time.
 
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