Thoughts on BLU/WAR

[Ewok]

Pro's:

*Double Attack: Possible increase in WS dmg (because extra hits can trigger during WS's); Possible increase in TP gain? (unsure wheter DW is better for tp/dot)

*Defender + Defense Bonus: Gives extra defense in bad spots, not sure how much often it would be needed; Cannonball, which is the closer for our solo Light sc, is greatly effected by the BLU's defense.

*Attack Bonus: Only a minor boost in attack, but many BLU's have set this JT, tieing up spell points.

*Provoke: Cocoon + Defender = +75% Defense. Not too shabby for an emergency tank, even if base defense isn't that high.

*Berserk: For those times you are only using a WS, or even if you do Distortion and no Light.


Con's (this is what BLU looses by not subbing NIN or THF:

*Dual Weild: extra weapon in offhand allows for extra stats

*Utsesemi: greatly reduces hits taken for getting hate (believe it reduces some enm too, if I remember)

*Sneak Attack: assures single hit spell, usually using CA with 100tp or more, will always land; increases dmg noticably on these spells

*Trick Attack*: incredibly effective hate control when used with spells like Dissevernment or Frenetic Rip


Any spot where we have a main tank, with little to know /thf's, looks like /thf is pretty cut and dry. But, when you go with a tpburn style party (no singled-out hate), or even a setup with 2 or more THFs or /THFs already, is /WAR better then /NIN?The only time I solo sc's is when I am /NIN, it's the only way that sub can keep up with my /THF's dmg. Normally I do distortion, Dissevernment sometimes connecting for high dmg even on IT mobs. But Tier 3 sc's seem to translate higher dmg then Tier 2, and this may give me enough reason to start soloing Light again, w/o having to go all out on def/VIT gear. Hell, even if I did go all out on that gear, this should just make it even better.


Thoughts? Experiences?

 

[Ruffyreborn]

I personally dont believe /war to be better than /nin for a couple reasons.

Ive had some massive attack before, considering I was using a sword. Voracious Trunk'd a Wivre and stole its Berserk (added a lot, put me up in the high 500's) and it lasted for the rest of the fight + a colibri. It didnt raise damage at all, but my hits were constant high numbers (hitting for constant 47's, occasionally a 48) on both the Wivre and Colibri. These 47's happened anyway, but never went higher unless it was a critical. These numbers will most likely increase, though, due to /war giving more str than /nin or thf.

Although BLU can be an on-the-fly tank, they lack a lot of VIT The extra defense will make the numbers a little less erratic, but its the VIT that helps lower the high damage

Defender sounds really nice to pair with Cocoon and Cannonball though. I believe it would work well for spamming some light SC's, if double attack kicks in a lot. But this would probably kill you lol

Double attack sounds really nice too. Although Dual Wield may incread DoT, you will actually hit faster/more on each single mob with a single weapon. Youve got double delay for 10 tp, or the single handed delay for 6-7ish tp per hit.

Would be an interesting combo

 

[Mai Ikari]

Double Attack is a 5-10% proc rate, while Dual Wield is a permanent (lv 50+) 15% delay reduction... suffice to say, Dual Wield is better for pure TP gain, though double attack isn't too bad.

Defender / Defense Bonus: Good for cannonball, junk otherwise. And it's once every 5 minutes, just use Sneak Attack twice as often.

Berserk: Good, very good, it's what makes /WAR superior to other subs in many circumstances. Only affects half of BLU's damage output, so not as good as it is for pure melees.

Provoke: If it takes hate, either you screwed up or the tank screwed up, and either way a good strong WS / spell will take hate just as effectively, and kill the mob faster.


BLU faces the COR conundrum, or at least the ones I've seen do. (in COR's case, /NIN vs /RNG) With the damage sub, they take too much damage and need shadows. With the ninja sub, they don't take enough hate to really validate using ninja. Maybe warrior would be a nice in-between, but I don't exactly have BLU leveled to find out, go try out /NIN and /WAR in the same camp, see which one works better. My money's on /NIN, though.


And one last thing. For the love of god, don't solo light... the WS's that go into it are weaker, and SC damage itself is pretty unreliable. That's why the TP burn was created in the first place, 800 WS 160% TP + 1k WS 100% TP = 100 damage light was just plain silly when the first guy could have WS'd 40% sooner. Strong WS + Strong Spell = random SC with mediocre damage cap is a lot more effective than Mediocre WS + Medium Spell = random SC with high damage cap.

...Except against Qutrub, but who fights those things anyway?

 

[Ruffyreborn]

And one last thing. For the love of god, don't solo light... the WS's that go into it are weaker, and SC damage itself is pretty unreliable. That's why the TP burn was created in the first place, 800 WS 160% TP + 1k WS 100% TP = 100 damage light was just plain silly when the first guy could have WS'd 40% sooner. Strong WS + Strong Spell = random SC with mediocre damage cap is a lot more effective than Mediocre WS + Medium Spell = random SC with high damage cap.

...Except against Qutrub, but who fights those things anyway?

Ahh, Qutrub I <3 those soft little furby creatures...

http://i19.tinypic.com/4zobp1f.png

 

[Mishaela]

Defense can be good for SCing Savage Blade -> Cannonball but you can just as well do...I believe it's Vorpal Blade -> Frenetic Rip? for Distortion, and for a generally much better damage average from what I've seen. Can't be certain on that though, I'm not nearly as experience with BLU as many people on the forums. =/

In regards to your Utsu question - It doesn't lower enmity. Rather, hate is simply lost when the enemy misses an attack. They made it this way in a year-or-so ago patch to help balance the enmity difference between PLD and NIN (though it's obviously not helped much...)

 

[Skaw]

Defender / Defense Bonus: Good for cannonball, junk otherwise. And it's once every 5 minutes, just use Sneak Attack twice as often.

wut

Defender is 3 minute recast, 3 minute duration.

 

[Mai Ikari]

3 min? Coulda sworn it was 5. Goes to show you how long it's been since I used it. Either way, the only time you'll see any real difference from Defender is CA-Cannonball, and that's on a two minute timer.

 

[Nicholette]

I tell u this Ewok, I've been doing blu burns and sometimes, I am forced to invite Bugaboo who only subs war. He always parses considerably less than everyone else. He is not a sea blu, but vs the other non sea blus subbing nin he still does poorly. I have felt that it really really gimps my parties. If I need a panic provoke. I'd rather have a war than a blu/war. If you really want to see it in action invite bugaboo

Now on another note, if ur looking for a god kiter and ur blu has the +enmity gear needed and w legs, a war sub for provoke could be useful. I'm pretty sure I could tank Kirin just fine with my job and with people logging their hate or sea jailers as well. Just a few thoughts hope they shine a little light.

 

[Mai Ikari]

I tell u this Ewok, I've been doing blu burns and sometimes, I am forced to invite Bugaboo who only subs war. He always parses considerably less than everyone else. He is not a sea blu, but vs the other non sea blus subbing nin he still does poorly. I have felt that it really really gimps my parties. If I need a panic provoke. I'd rather have a war than a blu/war. If you really want to see it in action invite bugaboo

But that's... Bugaboo... He doesn't have spells, he doesn't have gear, and he tries to melee/WS in absolute shit gear. I can put my MNK in full AF and some stupid non-Destroyers/Waghs weapon, sub WAR, and put out horrible numbers, doesnt' mean MNK/WAR is inferior to MNK/NIN.

 

[Icewolf]

Nah /war is basically fail for blu, the ONLY time you should use it is pvp, and its golden in pvp =)

Generally in exp (i assume thats what your talking about) a single spell will take hate, if your well geared. You'd have to hold back way to much if you didnt want to be an mp magnet.

 

[Necrosis]

3 min? Coulda sworn it was 5. Goes to show you how long it's been since I used it. Either way, the only time you'll see any real difference from Defender is CA-Cannonball, and that's on a two minute timer.

Why would defender last longer than its recast time, lol?

 

[Beka]

BLU faces the COR conundrum, or at least the ones I've seen do. (in COR's case, /NIN vs /RNG) With the damage sub, they take too much damage and need shadows. With the ninja sub, they don't take enough hate to really validate using ninja.

Have to disagree with this part, unless the blu is really holding back because he needs to save mp or is on stun standby for a dangerous mob. I tend to use plenty of shihei on blu from doing enough damage to get the mob's attention.

/thf works really well too, in a party that isnt killing faster than your ability to sata the tank. In a good burn party by the time you line up it's dead.

In general though I agree with what most have posted. The only time I can recommend /war is from 10-29 if you want to tank, since its more doable at those levels.

Edit: Nicholette, invite me to your blu burns! sounds fun!

 

[Mai Ikari]

Nec, I was thinking it was 5 and 5 for whatever reason, stop bugging me. D:

And Beka... As I said, it's the BLUs I've seen... unfortunately all I've seen are pretty crappy, and the one good BLU I know seems determined to avoid partying with me now that he's merited (but yea, he uses NIN because he gets enough hate). >.>

 

[Nicholette]

But that's... Bugaboo... He doesn't have spells, he doesn't have gear, and he tries to melee/WS in absolute shit gear. I can put my MNK in full AF and some stupid non-Destroyers/Waghs weapon, sub WAR, and put out horrible numbers, doesnt' mean MNK/WAR is inferior to MNK/NIN.

Hmmm I like your point. In the hands of a really strong/smart blue it could be a different story. but not having /nin will certainly make you an MP sponge in exp so this sub may have a use... but this may not be it.

 

[Negorissimo]

/NIN for the win! How else can you show 2 cool swords? ^^

 

[Vilurum]

If blue magic benefited from Attack, it may be a different story. But as-is, it basically gets summed up to /THF with single tank and mob consistently facing the tank, /NIN for hate-bouncing or if you pull hate with /THF (for some reason such as not having TA yet, or having a *bad* single tank).

 

[Ewok]

And one last thing. For the love of god, don't solo light... the WS's that go into it are weaker, and SC damage itself is pretty unreliable. That's why the TP burn was created in the first place, 800 WS 160% TP + 1k WS 100% TP = 100 damage light was just plain silly when the first guy could have WS'd 40% sooner. Strong WS + Strong Spell = random SC with mediocre damage cap is a lot more effective than Mediocre WS + Medium Spell = random SC with high damage cap.

...Except against Qutrub, but who fights those things anyway?

Only reason I bring up Light is because people have been getting good numbers on Cannonball. I honestly believed it to be junk, or not worth setting up an entirely different equip setup just to make it effective. This was just an idea to make a "good" cannonball possibly easier to pull off, while still having other uses in the process.

BLU faces the COR conundrum, or at least the ones I've seen do. (in COR's case, /NIN vs /RNG) With the damage sub, they take too much damage and need shadows. With the ninja sub, they don't take enough hate to really validate using ninja. Maybe warrior would be a nice in-between, but I don't exactly have BLU leveled to find out, go try out /NIN and /WAR in the same camp, see which one works better. My money's on /NIN, though.

I am currently trying to start my BLU ls back up, so if I can get some cannons together from it, I think I will try it then. Btw, like others have stated, /nin still generates enough dmg to pull hate, lol, at least at lvl 75.

 

[Ewok]

Defense can be good for SCing Savage Blade -> Cannonball but you can just as well do...I believe it's Vorpal Blade -> Frenetic Rip? for Distortion, and for a generally much better damage average from what I've seen. Can't be certain on that though, I'm not nearly as experience with BLU as many people on the forums. =/

In regards to your Utsu question - It doesn't lower enmity. Rather, hate is simply lost when the enemy misses an attack. They made it this way in a year-or-so ago patch to help balance the enmity difference between PLD and NIN (though it's obviously not helped much...)

Savage Blade > Dissevernment > Distortion

I pretty much always use this sc, mainly for the fact that Dissevernment can produce good numbers w/o /thf.

 

[Ewok]

wut

Defender is 3 minute recast, 3 minute duration.

3 minute duration, 5 minute recast, or Wiki is wrong, lol.

 

[Ewok]

If blue magic benefited from Attack, it may be a different story. But as-is, it basically gets summed up to /THF with single tank and mob consistently facing the tank, /NIN for hate-bouncing or if you pull hate with /THF (for some reason such as not having TA yet, or having a *bad* single tank).

I was also trying to improve melee dmg, as well as ws dmg when not doing a sc. I'm pretty satisfied, at least for now, with my spells' dmg output, considering I am not done meriting BLU yet.