"unofficial" talk of the legit ffxi windower mode.

[Dowzer]

I have no problems acquiring the proper distance...Deal 2k to anything VT which flies. (yes, low dmg - not being sarcastic) No plugins here, at all. (Fraps? lol)

EDIT~

Didn't they make the sweet spot a lot larger anyway?

I could be wrong. Maybe it's still rather small?

 

[Marajade]

Its still the same size, they changed sharpshot tho so that it makes it bigger when its up.

I top out at 2000-2100 on VTs without Distance. I cap out at 2500-3000 with distance. And i gain at least 300 more damage per fight in parse logs using distance, because the time it takes to eyeball the distance is about the time of one ranged attack.

 

[Skaw]

I thought the expanded the range, and made it so that Sharpshot ignores the penalties at any distance?

 

[Firestreak]

Blow it out your ass, and stop with the strawman arguments. Your a fucking joke with this shit.

Just analyzing YOUR argument.

I dunno entirely wtf you are trying to say here, but I'd imagine you're the last person who should be trying to tell people not to make comments regarding the general consensus of other players. You already said how many people are hypocrits? I'm sorry, but if you wanna make sweeping generalizations reguarding how people should feel on this matter and how other people should be viewed, you probably should check yourself.

How so? I never said TP Plugin was immoral. I never said people who use TP plugin are bad. I just said it's cheating.

I'm just gonna point out all the times you say you weren't cheating and weren't benefitting from cheating and how you still try to hold a high ground on the subject with the stance that it doesn't violate your feelings on the matter so it shouldn't matter to us. When the tables are turned though, you are the first to come out and tell people how they must all be hypocrits and adhere to your logic. You want people to buy your lines of bullshit, you shouldn't try and question other peoples.

Yet again, an important distinguishment you're missing. I personally don't mind if you want to cheat and use TP party, it's not my business and it doesn't affect me in the slightest. There's no moral problem with it to me, but yes, it IS CHEATING, and if you're going to argue it's wrong to cheat then follow your own advice and blow it out your ass. I seriously do hope you keep using your TP plugin after they switch to legal-windower, I'll laugh my ass off when you get on QCDN, whining like a pussy about how it was so wrong of you to get banned.

I've already stated, as have others, SE is fucking retarded. If they want my money I will play the game fully utilizing all the features and info they throw down the pipeline to me. If they send me my full PTs TP and full alliences HP and MP, I'm gonna look at it. If they don't want me to be able to do that, they should consider NOT SENDING IT. Thanks for cluttering my bandwidth with extra info and then telling me "no lookie!" I will do as I please, as I've always done. Computers aren't rare and precious commodities. Anyone can own one, and I can't imagine anyone with an internet connection not. There's no monopoly on this info. Get with the program or stfu. If you prefer PS2, you prefer not having that info, it comes with the territory. If it were up to me, I'd drop PS2 support in the blink of an eye, and I own a PS2 with FFXI on it! I am tired of dealing with shitty support for a lackluster game, being held back by rules that make no sense.

If you dislike FFXI so much and you have so much disdain for Square-Enix, do us all a favor and quit. As for your argument it's ridiculous. They send us the information for when NMs are pop and I'm sure every time JDA claims you're crying like a pussy about how you think they use packet sniffers... well... jeez...

"If they want my money I will play the game fully utilizing all the features and info they throw down the pipeline to me."

Guess they had the same opinion as you?

If someone could tell me why everyone shouldn't be allowed to see the info provided by windower and TParty then I might understand, but these are features that should be there. They've even gone to the trouble of sending the info to our clients, they just didn't make the final link. It's sloppy shit like that that makes SE so pathetic. I don't follow rules that exist just to have another rule. There has to be a reason, and it has to be plausible.

How about this... balancing? They balance the difficulty of everyone under the assumption that you don't know the exact % of the mob, you don't know the TP of everyone in your party, you don't know the MP of everyone in your alliance, you don't know the exact distance of every mob away from you and you don't know when the mobs are going to pop. They balance the difficulty of the mobs under the assumption that you have to operate your character with the standard macros just like they balance the difficulty of skillups assuming you don't have automatic bots. They designed the game based on their interface and the information they want you to see. If you don't want to play by their rules, fine... but you're cheating and get the fuck over yourself.

 

[Marajade]

I thought the expanded the range, and made it so that Sharpshot ignores the penalties at any distance?

If they did its not noticable. And Sharpshot "lessens" the penalties, not ignores them, and does nothing if you're already in the correct spot.

Cheating is cheating is cheating

Ok, we get it, voke bots are just as evil as TParty, kay.

 

[Bigboy]

Just analyzing YOUR argument.

The fact that you continue to call it my argument, when you are misrepresnting it, and are wrong, is what makes it a strawman argument.

How about this... balancing?

It's not really balancing if being able to see the facts makes it obvious they aren't balanced now is it?

I've finally figured out why you always sound like a complete fucking tool to me though. You don't know the meaning of all the words you use. You try and call people hypocrits, but you cant be a hypocrit if you never held the belief that botting and windwer are both cheating. Since I don't believe windering is cheating, I can't possibly be a hypocrit, since after all, to e a hypocrit, your actions have to clash with your own beliefs. Someone else's (in this case yours) have no bearing on the pausible hypocrisy of others. You've just been pretentious enough this whole time to think you could tell us how we think.

 

[neophytal]

all i can say is .. lol

 

[Black Jack]

It means scanning the computer for anything without the player's permission is illegal and probably consdered (<- Spelling) hacking.

Get the software Pro Guard. It will show you every .exe that is run. One of them is POL.exe what should load a few times, but one of the loads is something like this.

Name: POL.exe
Description: Check if Launcher.exe is being Run


..... I found it around 4 months ago. They check if Windower is opened. My best bet is change the name of Launcher.exe

 

[Black Jack]

Hey, I'd love that too, but the exact opposite is happening. I'm tired of having to spam my TP macro to let some retard know I have TP while they completely ignore my requests for their TP so I can skill chain with them. If only one person has TPparty, it's not going to do much, but if everyone has it and isn't a total idiot, it makes the party better.

Not every one has TP party. I fine using my Xbox 360 is best for FFXI as it will run faster then my PC or PS2. As PC has Windower but they have the game programmed horribly. The game talks to the OS not the drivers. Making lag. Yet the 360 and PS2 games talk to drivers. As they are machines made to run games. PC is not, it has been made to but was not the point of a PC to run games.

 

[Phraust]

lol

Bigboy is frigging huge.

 

[Artem]

Not every one has TP party. I fine using my Xbox 360 is best for FFXI as it will run faster then my PC or PS2. As PC has Windower but they have the game programmed horribly. The game talks to the OS not the drivers. Making lag. Yet the 360 and PS2 games talk to drivers. As they are machines made to run games. PC is not, it has been made to but was not the point of a PC to run games.

PC was in theory designed to do any type of computation. And if you don't realize video games are just advanced computations.

Why is this thread still going?

 

[Firestreak]

Ok, we get it, voke bots are just as evil as TParty, kay.

Pay attention Bigboy, above, is what's a strawman argument. I think TP Party is a cheat, therefore by definition I think TP Party and Voke bot are the same magnitude? (Even when I've said on this very thread and many times before that's not the case.)

The fact that you continue to call it my argument, when you are misrepresnting it, and are wrong, is what makes it a strawman argument.

Your argument is that it's alright to read any data that comes into your client and that you can change the client to input data in the way you prefer. I don't need to use any strawman tactics, I only have to interpret your own reasoning in other areas.

It's not really balancing if being able to see the facts makes it obvious they aren't balanced now is it?

Nonsensical.

I've finally figured out why you always sound like a complete fucking tool to me though. You don't know the meaning of all the words you use. You try and call people hypocrits, but you cant be a hypocrit if you never held the belief that botting and windwer are both cheating.

No but you hold the belief that cheating is immoral.

Since I don't believe windering is cheating, I can't possibly be a hypocrit, since after all, to e a hypocrit, your actions have to clash with your own beliefs.

I believe stealing is wrong, yet I don't believe piracy is stealing, therefore I'm not wrong when I pirate software? If you believe cheating is wrong, then someone who considers your actions cheating is entitled to their opinion that you're hypocritical.

Someone else's (in this case yours) have no bearing on the pausible hypocrisy of others. You've just been pretentious enough this whole time to think you could tell us how we think.

I have no right to tell you to believe cheating is immoral or not. I'll leave that to your drones to tell me how to think. I'm well within my rights to insinuate that using 3rd party programs that are against the ToS, using add on giving you hidden information and using alternative forms of input not sanctioned are cheating. I don't just believe it's cheating. It IS cheating.

Don't confuse the fucking issue though. It's not cheating the same scale as running around at the speed of light just the same as when you download that next Backstreet Boys CD it's not the same as running into the store and running out with a CD under your coat pocket. If cheating on a lesser degree grants you peace of mind, fine with me. I just wonder if FFXI had windowed function all along if you'd consider people making a client to add attachments to be cheating, or you only consider it a cheat if it's something you don't want to use?

 

[Marajade]

Pay attention Bigboy, above, is what's a strawman argument. I think TP Party is a cheat, therefore by definition I think TP Party and Voke bot are the same magnitude? (Even when I've said on this very thread and many times before that's not the case.)

No, your point is comming across that because we all use cheats, we have no place critisizeing others for using cheats, regardless of what these cheats may be. We need to "Get over ourselves" as you so put it.

 

[Bigboy]

More dumbassery.

Yeah, uh huh whatever. You just keep trying little man.

 

[Garvin]

No, your point is comming across that because we all use cheats, we have no place critisizeing others for using cheats, regardless of what these cheats may be. We need to "Get over ourselves" as you so put it.

It is hypocritical to a certain degree, to cheat yourself, yet call another out on it, but some things are definitely worse than others. Personally, I would never say it's wrong for someone using a lesser cheat to criticize someone using a stronger cheat. Both of those people would be in the wrong, however a person using fleetool certainly deserves the boot more than someone using distance, for example.

The fact remains however, that both are cheats, and both do deserve their appropriate punishment, and I hope that as many users of such applications as possible are in fact punished.

 

[Marajade]

It is hypocritical to a certain degree, to cheat yourself, yet call another out on it, but some things are definitely worse than others. Personally, I would never say it's wrong for someone using a lesser cheat to criticize someone using a stronger cheat. Both of those people would be in the wrong, however a person using fleetool certainly deserves the boot more than someone using distance, for example.

The fact remains however, that both are cheats, and both do deserve their appropriate punishment, and I hope that as many users of such applications as possible are in fact punished.

The issue becomes how we define it as a cheat. While taken literaly it is indeed an alteration of the functioning of the game, but so is the use of an online resource for game information like item skill caps, which are not visible in the game.

 

[Pompidou]

This whole argument is reminiscent of the Clinton impeachment hearings, when Clinton argued that he did not have sexual relations with that woman on the grounds that oral sex wasn't sex. A cheat is a cheat, just like a bj is sexual relations. Trying to redefine cheating to acquit oneself of any wrongdoings seems silly. It's never the cheat one does that's the bad cheat -always those other cheats.

And let's not forget the argument that some cheats are ok because SE should've allowed us to do whatever in the first place - a flee-tooler could argue that SE should've doubled our movement speed to begin with, and thus flee-tool isn't cheating. Fact is, SE didn't allow it, and whether SE is right or not, the person cheating to access these is still as guilty of cheating as all the other cheaters.

And the argument a ways back that TP-party makes crappy parties better. So would hacked gear. I'm tired of partying with poorly equipped noobs. Let's give them duped abjuration gear on top of their tp party, so that my exp/hour doesn't suffer. Some players suck - cheating shouldn't be the means to compensate for that.

 

[Marajade]

This whole argument is reminiscent of the Clinton impeachment hearings, when Clinton argued that he did not have sexual relations with that woman on the grounds that oral sex wasn't sex. A cheat is a cheat, just like a bj is sexual relations. Trying to redefine cheating to acquit oneself of any wrongdoings seems silly. It's never the cheat one does that's the bad cheat -always those other cheats.

And let's not forget the argument that some cheats are ok because SE should've allowed us to do whatever in the first place - a flee-tooler could argue that SE should've doubled our movement speed to begin with, and thus flee-tool isn't cheating. Fact is, SE didn't allow it, and whether SE is right or not, the person cheating to access these is still as guilty of cheating as all the other cheaters.

And the argument a ways back that TP-party makes crappy parties better. So would hacked gear. I'm tired of partying with poorly equipped noobs. Let's give them duped abjuration gear on top of their tp party, so that my exp/hour doesn't suffer. Some players suck - cheating shouldn't be the means to compensate for that.

Another person unable to differenciate between cheats and "Cheats."

Go hang out with Firestreak.

 

[pakomen]

If it looks like a cheat, and it smells like a cheat, it probably is a cheat.

And the whole "well, using a website gives you an unfair advantage too" arguement is retarded. It is information that is freely available to anyone. And even more freely available to someone using windower.

And your keyboard that can do all these neat nifty things might give you an unfair advantage, but the key is it's sanctioned by SE. If they give them away as prizes, they're sanctioned. It's SE's game. SE gets to decide which of its own rules to be flexible on.

And that's about as close as I'm going to get to this arguement. It's been beaten to death so many times. We all know where we stand.

 

[Marajade]

And your keyboard that can do all these neat nifty things might give you an unfair advantage, but the key is it's sanctioned by SE. If they give them away as prizes, they're sanctioned. It's SE's game. SE gets to decide which of its own rules to be flexible on.

And if used a different method of device? Like if i hooked up a gamepad with turbo controls, or used dual-screens on my PC. Neither are "sanctioned" by SE, but both can give me an advantage over those without. To define as derriveing an advantage fails. The applicable definition here is to those who recieve an UNFAIR advantage over others. Being able to warp across the map and instantly claim monsters while afk is an unfair advantage. Longer macros and party TP are hardly unfair advantages, and in the case of TParty, generaly boost the performance of the party itself.