Valkyrs

[Mirewen]

You want to bitch to me, do it in PM's, I'm done with this thread. I'm refusing your personal attacks at me because I was not there. And btw, one day while I was not on, you all CC'd OH at Ulli and it cost us 4 members. Remember that? Obviously not, get off your horse.

 

[Zoolander]

WHAT HORSE???? And I never stole shit. And 4 members? Wtf? Kireek was the only member I rmember losing because we CCed OH, and that was the last time we did so for a while after that.

And you are camparing CCing to Stealing, which is not the same thing in the least.

And what personal attacks? Sorry if the sarcasm hurts your feelings, I'm trying to understand how you and dres could go from one side of not evne wanting to CC anyone no matter what, to defending stealing an NM that your LS didnt claim.

Please tell me where I'm wrong. Please. I really would like to know why you believe such, because I cant believe you and dres would fall so far.

 

[meeze]

You want to bitch to me, do it in PM's, I'm done with this thread. I'm refusing your personal attacks at me because I was not there. And btw, one day while I was not on, you all CC'd OH at Ulli and it cost us 4 members. Remember that? Obviously not, get off your horse.

Valkyrs will CC anyone at anytime at any NM in sky if they need it. Thought you'd like to know that.

 

[Rhaddy]

Valkyrs will CC anyone at anytime at any NM in sky if they need it. Thought you'd like to know that.

CC is now illegal or something? ALERT THE PEOPLE IN AERY!

 

[meeze]

CC is now illegal or something? ALERT THE PEOPLE IN AERY!

Read what I quoted. Their previous LS didn't CC, as most LSs don't CC in sky.

 

[hellstorm]

lol with over 14 na sky shell alone it coming to the point you have to cc or you left not doing gods that week

 

[versiontwo]

So ultimately we would go through all this shit.
And the best come back is that we made this thing up.
We are lying?

Lol.
I don't know who has bigger nuts. Villa or these kds.

 

[gir]

You want to bitch to me, do it in PM's, I'm done with this thread. I'm refusing your personal attacks at me because I was not there. And btw, one day while I was not on, you all CC'd OH at Ulli and it cost us 4 members. Remember that? Obviously not, get off your horse.

Mire, I have no itention of bitching at you. From what I remember, you're a very respectful and open person (I do remember your name from way back in kazham on one of my first jobs.) I'd really like to hear Valkyrs side of the story. In fact, if you go back to the first page I said:

I've also given Valkyrs the benefit of the doubt. I know their reputation and some of us know members personally, so we wanted to handle this through discussion rather than flame, which is why I waited until it was abundantly clear they were keeping the drop. I still would rather not have the drama associated with qcdn FB but this post is at the behest of the LS. Thank you.

If anything, I'd only like an explanation of the events that transpired, and what motivated Vill et al to claim Ulli and keep the stone. Really, I was against bringing this to the FB in the first place, but no one from Valkyrs has seen fit to communicate their side of the story beyond roughly, "Tough luck, sky's a bitch."

Mire, if you or anyone from your LS can provide me a reasonable explanation for the actions taken that day and since, I will humbly withdraw this flame. PM me and I'll keep it private and anonymous, or post here and let everyone know. I prefer PM because I value discretion.


Eternalist -> Again, your comments are uninformed and unappreciated. I posted the time of claim and ToD to the minute, screenshots of claim and death, how I believe the events unfolded. I'm sorry, I'm not omnipotent and can't post SS of conversations that occurred in /tell between two other people. I can only show you what I saw. I was only taking SS for myself because I thought they were cool. Had I known I'm supposed to prove without a doubt an action I had no foreknowledge of, just for your satisfaction, you should have let me know beforehand.

 

[versiontwo]

Lol all replies have either:

1. Tough luck, go die.
2. it's your fault you died, gives us permission to steal.
3. I wasn't there.
4. It's all a lie.
5. I believe my friends and not you.
6. where's all the other screenshots?

look these all are irelevant and is trying to pull the fact from the point.
this doesn't matter unless it comes from the person we are flaming.
So untill Villarel or Amboshi fes up for being dumbasses they'll always be the fucking Ulli stealers, that you dumn fucks are protecting.

and furthermore, Blaze talked to Villarel and he's on PS2. No way of him providing screenshots.
I believed them when blaze told me they would return it. So I didn't even bother taking a screen shot of this conversation. No one for that matter did.
But then it fucks up.
I asked Villarel if he could trade me the stone. He said the NIN has it.
then I asked him where is he?
No reply.
This is the exact situation that happened.
You guys can cover behind shit.
You will allways be assholes to me.

 

[versiontwo]

And besides....

I want Villarel on here posting replies.

none of his dumbass pawns with the dumbest excuses they could think of.

you're worthless as a leader of you dont stand for what you did.

 

[Arien]

As a side note I really am quite curious what would make it OK to blame Valkyrs for this incident in Yanzi's and Laur's head.

A party of Valkyrs' robbing the LS of the NM? Not blamable yet.
The leader of Valkyrs' aware and unwilling to return the stone? Not blamable yet.
An alliance of Valkyrs' using the stolen pop item and killing Byakko? Not blammable yet.

What exactly has to happen in order for Valkyrs' to do wrong in Yanzi and Laur's eyes? It seems as if Laur doesn't view the action as wrong in the first place. Stealing is just ok? Maybe Valkyrs' can't be blamed cause some members feel bad about what happened?

Maybe some people just don't want to accept the truth...

Maybe people prefer to believe the lie. And they'll hold it in their hands tightly long after there's nothing left but ashes.

Stop being a hypocrite Fire. Remember that Kirin? I know you do, and still to this day you're telling yourself that it wasn't stealing. Once again you need to look at your own situation before you start calling people out.

 

[Firestreak]

That's a nice try and all but...

1) Fyi, the drops from Kirin... Francheska was the 1 who claimed that Kirin, Francheska was the one who got that Osode. Francheska was the one who split from OH within a day. I'd love nothing more personally than to tear Francheska's Osode off her and give it to you.

2) Though it's been brought up at nauseum basically whenever I criticise anyone for doing anything wrong... Villarel himself posted on that old flame thread insulting us for taking the Kirin. As well several other Valkyrs members who were there posted to criticize us, several of whom defender Valkyrs notw on this board. Who's the real hypocrite?

3) At the very worst we'd owe BoL seals. The only seal that anyone gives a damn about is Byakko. Byakko is limited by Ulli... stealing ulli = stealing Kirin. Just as bad, only....

4) BoL was essentially wiped. Most of BoL members admit that. Some BoL members angrily opposed the takeover while others shouted "Take Kirin." It was there seals and basically they wanted Kirin to depop. BoL was angry because there was a time conflict over who was going to pop Kirin. It was our regular pop time, there was apparently some deal worked out they'd get to pop after us or something, wasn't held up(I'm not sure if that's true or not, but seems to be what upset them).

This LS on the other hand simply lost claim while it's undebatable they were not wiping. Had TriumphantBeginning wiped, or mostly wiped and claim was lost then, I highly doubt this flame would exist here today.

5) BoL's thread happened so quickly after the Kirin incident, Kirin wasn't dead before it was 10 pages in. We had no chance to try and reason and/or work out anything with BoL. We had no chance to offer them compensation once people had cooled down. This thread was made days after the incident after this LS was ignored repeatedly. Note by a day later in our incident BoL members were saying things like...

[quote = "Calbrone"]Anyways whats done is done... time to move on.. Im sure both sides are tired of typing lol.. I wanna get back to teabaging fire and daveman in game.. But dave keep ur pole dude.. its your own you earned it keep it. anyways I hope the the wounds heal and we can continue takeing the 1st steps towards working better between linkshells like we have been with bol and OH at ulli. im sure both shells have benifited from less CC up there.. anyways on my party I appologize if any incovince in that this may have cause.. and lets get back on track... and work towards our common goals.[/quote]




[quote = "Calbrone"]1. You weren't there.

2. We shouldn't have been there in the first place.

3. None of this would have happened, if we had a free time slot.

4. Calbrone schdeduled this event even though he knew OH would probably show up on their time slot.

5. I was ignored multiple times while we were gathering...Maybe not ignored but you leaders know who you are. My requests as a leader went ignored. I said WE SHOULDN'T BE HERE IF OH ARRIVES. THIS IS NOT OUR TIME SLOT.

Say what you want......But I believe this all could have been avoided.


As for killing the Kirin that we popped with our seals.......Congratulations on the free work, as I said before....You guys don't deserve that, which is why I ran around trying to CFH. I really could care less how childish you think this is. We CFH on the Summons and only small handfull of people helped us, I know you're not entitled to help.....but c'mon, we were obviously struggling. Most of you chose to stand there and wait. Those who helped us, like Reality..Thank you, I hope I can repay the favor.

And like Proph said, get it Fran...Get Kirin!!!

Pfffffft. Vultures.

That being said, I want to apologize on behalf of our sloppy leaders who planned this on your scheduled day and didn't listen to me. We should not have been there in the first place.

BOTH LINKSHELLS (OH AND BOL) ARE IN THE WRONG. We popped on OH's day, and they took it from us as we were wiping.

As for offering your help, I really hope my other members can see this the way I do...I appreciate the offer and may /tell you guys if we are low on BLM's. We know we can kill him, so if you don't get a /tell don't take it the wrong way, please.

As for offering Kirin's Pole, that would mean a lot..As losing a set of seals will hurt any sky LS.

I hope this topic can be put to rest, it's become a broken record.

In the future, I hope we can work together.

Take care.[/quote]

6. It's funny, but even if they did wipe to Ulli, Ulli won't depop. You took something from them that they weren't even wiping to, and was never going away. We took a Kirin that most people admitted eventually was going to depop anyway.

Hypocrisy is arguing a belief you don't believe. As many know, one thing I truly hate is thievery. But there are circumstances I believe it's justified and circumstances not. Like I'd believe it OK to take a NM from a wiping LS, period. I believe it's ok to take from an LS that fell back on an agreement. I believe it's ok to take from an LS that has a policy of MPK to get claim.

When people just outright steal stuff, I still believe it's wrong. It's not me being a hypocrite, it's me having values that aren't absolute.

That's how I see it. If you wanna condemn me for it, that's your call. You can say my values may be wrong, and stealing is wrong under all circumstances, but you can't call me a hypocrite, since i've never condemned anyone for stealing a NM off a wiping LS, or from people who MPK, or when an agreement has been breached. Note the threads with BoL MPKing Valkyrs over Ulli when the exp party promised not to claim Ulli. Or when Kaizen stole Tiamat from wiping NH. Having a somewhat complex set of values doesn't make me a hypocrite just because you prefer to think of me that way. The fact remains as long as you aren't going to wipe, when you fight an NM I want I would never steal from you until that point I honestly believe you're going to wipe. I'm moral but I'm also sensible.

 

[Firestreak]

Also I'll point out Valkyrs didn't steal Ulli from me. They stole if from Triumphant Beginning. As far as I know no TB member has ever stolen NMs. They certainly never stole anything from us. They have never even CCed us as far as I know. So I don't really see where the web of justification is really going anyway.

 

[Arien]

Lol it took you all of that to try to explain why you are not a hypocrite? Too bad that was a waste of your time. That the same shit you spew everytime that topic is brought up. And guess what, it is still as useless as the first time you used that argument.

It really easy to tell when you know you've been called out on something, you just make a long senseless post that does nothing for your own cause. Stop trying to make yourself look good at the expense of others. You come off looking like the true dumbfuck that you really are. Please stop, for your own sake.

Hypocrisy is arguing a belief you don't believe. As many know, one thing I truly hate is thievery. But there are circumstances I believe it's justified and circumstances not.

So what you are trying to say here is that it is only thievery if you believe that is it. That's quite hypocritical right there. Why don't you stay on one side of the fence man, you're always jumping from one side to the other. How hard is it for you to see this? I guess in your pathetic little mind you can't understand that.

What exactly has to happen in order for Valkyrs' to do wrong in Yanzi and Laur's eyes? It seems as if Laur doesn't view the action as wrong in the first place. Stealing is just ok?

I didn't steal anything. Was not there for any of it. Did some people in my LS do something shady? Yeah, they did. Do I care? No sir. Sky has been overcrowded for awhile now, this won't be the end of stuff like this. It wasn't the beginning either.

Read everything before you make posts like that. You go and make assumptions on what I think about it without reading what I actually said about it.

 

[Mishaela]

Just because other people have stolen before doesn't mean it's alright to steal now. And yes, the actions of one member does tend to affect the entire LS, especially if it's something shady like this. Pretty sure several people are gonna be looking at the group with a bit less respect than before because of this going on and the LS allowing it, to boot.

If you can't work with society then you're antisocial, in which, why are you playing an MMO? If someone's that f-!king obsessed with claiming some rare monster for a drop they should just go back to Earthbound and camp Bionic Kraken.

 

[Firestreak]

Lol it took you all of that to try to explain why you are not a hypocrite? Too bad that was a waste of your time. That the same shit you spew everytime that topic is brought up. And guess what, it is still as useless as the first time you used that argument.

It really easy to tell when you know you've been called out on something, you just make a long senseless post that does nothing for your own cause. Stop trying to make yourself look good at the expense of others. You come off looking like the true dumbfuck that you really are. Please stop, for your own sake.



So what you are trying to say here is that it is only thievery if you believe that is it. That's quite hypocritical right there. Why don't you stay on one side of the fence man, you're always jumping from one side to the other. How hard is it for you to see this? I guess in your pathetic little mind you can't understand that.





Read everything before you make posts like that. You go and make assumptions on what I think about it without reading what I actually said about it.

The problem is you don't understand what hypocrisy means. It means arguing a value you don't believe. I don't believe it's wrong to take an unclaimed NM from someone who's wiping.

You don't care if your LS just steals an NM period. You critize me for what you NEITHER of us view as wrong, and I criticize you for what I believe is wrong and you don't.

Graduate high school. Learn the english language. Then argue it with me.

 

[Arien]

The problem is you don't understand what hypocrisy means. It means arguing a value you don't believe. I don't believe it's wrong to take an unclaimed NM from someone who's wiping.

You don't believe what YOU are doing is wrong because in YOUR head YOU make it out to be the right thing. However what YOU are doing is wrong yet you continue to tell other people who have done the same thing that they are hypocrites. This is what makes YOU a hypocrite. Stop trying to twist words and meanings Fire. I believe that even you don't understand what you are trying to say.

You don't care if your LS just steals an NM period. You critize me for what you NEITHER of us view as wrong, and I criticize you for what I believe is wrong and you don't.

No fucking clue what you are trying to say there.

Graduate high school. Learn the english language. Then argue it with me.

Way past ya there kiddie. Once you get out of school give me a ring, then maybe you can add something intelligent to a conversation of ours. And I've learned that arguing with you is never ending. You put yourself too high up on a pedestal to even allow others thoughts to reach you. I'm telling you now, you need to climb down from there. Especially since you're the only one that sees you in that way.

 

[Firestreak]

You don't believe what YOU are doing is wrong because in YOUR head YOU make it out to be the right thing. However what YOU are doing is wrong yet you continue to tell other people who have done the same thing that they are hypocrites. This is what makes YOU a hypocrite. Stop trying to twist words and meanings Fire. I believe that even you don't understand what you are trying to say.



No fucking clue what you are trying to say there.



Way past ya there kiddie. Once you get out of school give me a ring, then maybe you can add something intelligent to a conversation of ours. And I've learned that arguing with you is never ending. You put yourself too high up on a pedestal to even allow others thoughts to reach you. I'm telling you now, you need to climb down from there. Especially since you're the only one that sees you in that way.

No I don't see it as wrong because I don't think it's wrong. When an LS is wiping on Fafnir for example, if you don't try and claim it then the JP LS will claim it the second it turns yellow. If don't take take a popped NM that the people died fighting then it disappears. Nobody is hurt by taking it.

When I argue a view I don't believe you can call me a hypocrite.

You can say my views are fucked up because they are not as simple as yours might be(your views being fuck everyone I'm stealing whatever I want), but you can't say I'm a hypocrite because of what hypocrisy is. And you can't say my views are wrong when your views are obviously far more selfish, being that's it's just ok when you steal always.

 

[Bigboy]

Obsessing much Arien?

Having the benefit of being completely impartial in all this, I feel its fair to say that you aren't arguing against Firestreak's words, but against Firestreak himself. I can totally understnd what he's saying and I can't fathom how it is you view him as a hypocrite in this. You're only argument for why you're LS stealing is ok, is because sky has been overcrowded for a while. Then you go one to say it won't be the end of stuff like this.

What puts such a sour taste in people's mouthes here is that this is a new beginning of sorts for Valkyrs. Perhaps not the server, but thats not what you should base your actions on. All you have told us is that you dont feel it is important to take the moral high road because others haven't. If thats the case, and your LS no longer acts due to its own beliefs, but instead acts to match the attitudes of others, it may be time for a reforming. A shell is the sum of its parts, and if some of its parts are bad, that makes the shell bad, and something needs to be fixed ad the parts need to be removed/replaced.

Really though, kinda pathetic to go so far as to changing your forum title to "Pwning Firestreak". I mean really, just because you put it there doesn't make it true. Perhaps you should try "Pwn'd by my LS"

 

[Firestreak]

Laur, I'll try and explain to you what a hypocrite is. I'll use small words so you can understand.




Little Jimmy tells everyone it's wrong to hit girls. Little Jimmy goes home and beats the shit out of his brother.

Little Jimmy is not a hypocrite.

Little Sammy says it's wrong to hit people in general. Little Sammy goes home and beats the shit out of his brother.

Little Sammy is a hypocrite.

Little Jimmy says it's only wrong to hit girls, therefore when he hits boys he is not a hypocrite. Little Sammy says it's wrong to hit all people, therefore when he hits boys he is a hypocrite.

This concludes our lesson of 2nd grade English. Please do your best not to "Pwn" the teacher, or you'll get detention.