What Tank you will pick for your exp pt?

[Isotope]

its a similar refrence to the argument your putting up. your litterly saying make all jobs equal...

what would be the point of job classes then? why can't i tank on my blm? why isn't thf the tank?

I used a wrong wording in one of my earlier post about pld's just mashing buttons.

Let me see if i can explain myself better.
PLD is a fine tank, but when it comes to xp nin takes the cake on faster xp/hr. it was mensioned earlier that you can farm or craft the tools but time=money ninja is dumping a hell of a lot of gill into that exp party. Ninja requires concentration and very little room for error. you misscount one time or miss a shadow going away your gonna get burned. you've got to work your timing down so that your not busy doing something else when blink is needed to be casted. a pld has A LOT more room for error and is not nearly as focused as a ninja must be.

Ninja's must keep a clear mind and stay extreamly focused the whole time. That is why I can't xp on ninja for 24hr's straight like i could on blm rdm whm thf. Ninja has required the MOST SKILL out of any job i've lvld thus far. Its been said by sneaky pld=safer nin=faster. when parties are being built that leader is thinking hmmm which do i want? If they have a choice between the 2 they will make a decision based on prev experiences with either the player or the job. What about the smn's, thf's, drks that get shunned off for oh so long? Where is there balencing you request SE to do for pld so you can exp faster and get more invites?

Maybe instead of saying they need to balence it so you get more invites, maybe you should be making the parties yourself instead of leaving the dirty work to someone else that by your earlier post... wont pick you!

so again the order for EXP PARTIES!! Everyone loves faster xp so the list goes as follows again
Good NIN>Good PLD>Bad PLD>Bad NIN

Best thing you can do if you wana XP is make your own parties. Then you've got just as much of a chance at getting a invite as a bard lol you invited yourself.


one last thing...
everyone talked about making yag drinks, if you have a rdm they dont stack with each other. lvl alch and sinth eithers then you have virtually no downtime lol

The only arguement I'm engaged in right now is the number of people responding to this thread who seem to rather then think of why I've posted some ideas or just read them & continue on, have decided to start a heated debate over what they think I'm defending & attacking when in fact I'm doing neither.

If your gonna talk about BLM try questioning something realistic & closer to home, but then I don't know of any job that even rivals a BLM in what it does.

I agree NIN requires great attention to their surroundings at all times to do their job to their best.

Personally I think WHM have it hardest. Good white mages gotta keep staring at HP bars, MP bars & txt from mob attacks to make sure they take care of status ailements.

The problem w/starting parties is that people leave fast if you cannot find the key jobs Healer & Refresher while forming PT. A party is nothing at the higher lvls without these 2 & since they have so much influence on a PT most of the time I leave it up to one of these to start the PT.

Yagudo Drinks was only an example used in an earlier post.

 

[Bajaratt]

I have all the confidence in the world in my ability to tank, how dare you even imply such bs. Yagudo Drinks was just an example from a previous post of mine, don't stick to targetting Yags. I think it's quite the opposite, people here have a superiority complex & feel they have to flaunt what they think they have & find a target. Everything I've said in this thread is with fundamental thinking of the "what if" sense, no whining has been done. There is no conspiracy against paladins mr. x-files watcher.... I'm not defending nothing, nor attacking anything, my replies are like a wishlist of suggestions of what would be interesting to see if SE ever made such changes..

I don't think I've ever seen so much contradictory bullshit. Are you even reading the thread you're posting in, or do you just post randomly?

Your entire rhetoric has been inflamitory. Your attacking nin's, constantly defending the need for paladin being the best tank AT ALL TIMES. You're the one who repeatidly brings up the need for stackable yag drinks(when mages would get much more from it) and the need for more hate tools. There are several types of tanks for a reason, there was never meant to be one job that did everything. Otherwise, what was the purpose of letting ninjas still have utsusemi? SE never intended for them to be tanks, but once it was obvious that's what they mainly used as; SE could have changed how nin as played to prevent them from tanking, but they didn't. SE accepted their role as tanks, because they were able to help tank things that paladins were less efficient at tanking.

Read what I said again. You are the ONLY paladin saying pld's need more to their job, that tells me you don't think pld is good enough, which implies an inferiority complex on your part. Everyone else thinks pld's are just fine, that nin's are situationally better, you're the only one asking for absolutes when everyone else is telling you there is none.

You've also ignored how I've gotten good exp with a great pld, but how a random nin has a higher chance of getting good exp. Learn to read everything someone says, rather than just half of it(if that much) and respond.

 

[Isotope]

:thumbsup:

BULLshit times like 800 and whatnot.

I did not call you gimp for not being level 75 I called you gimp for being a PLD. Also your come backs could use alittle work. I think your just upset your a PLD and can't really level NIN cause no one wants a PLD in the big money makin events and what not.

Good job really though,:thumbsup:

Come backs? LoL grow up. I'm done wasting my time with you.. someone who actually wants to discuss rather then flame please post something interesting.

 

[Shaunessy]

So I was playing around with my level 1 BST and I think that Ding Bats are the best tank in the game. Hell I don't even need armor when they are tanking for me. Plus they can kill bees and worms lickity split. I vote Ding Bats #1 TANK!!

 

[Isotope]

Not to change the subject but Shaun, what are you supposed to be in your avatar?

 

[Isotope]

I don't think I've ever seen so much contradictory bullshit. Are you even reading the thread you're posting in, or do you just post randomly?

Your entire rhetoric has been inflamitory. Your attacking nin's, constantly defending the need for paladin being the best tank AT ALL TIMES. You're the one who repeatidly brings up the need for stackable yag drinks(when mages would get much more from it) and the need for more hate tools. There are several types of tanks for a reason, there was never meant to be one job that did everything. Otherwise, what was the purpose of letting ninjas still have utsusemi? SE never intended for them to be tanks, but once it was obvious that's what they mainly used as; SE could have changed how nin as played to prevent them from tanking, but they didn't. SE accepted their role as tanks, because they were able to help tank things that paladins were less efficient at tanking.

Read what I said again. You are the ONLY paladin saying pld's need more to their job, that tells me you don't think pld is good enough, which implies an inferiority complex on your part. Everyone else thinks pld's are just fine, that nin's are situationally better, you're the only one asking for absolutes when everyone else is telling you there is none.

You've also ignored how I've gotten good exp with a great pld, but how a random nin has a higher chance of getting good exp. Learn to read everything someone says, rather than just half of it(if that much) and respond.

You obviously are another that fails to realize I'm not attacking or defending shit, for all those I've had to repeat myself to, please stear clear of any posts I make in the future, I do not find it entertaining trying to defend myself against so many superiority complexes at once.

 

[Sonicboom]

I prefer NIN over PLD, but I get what I can. I like nin more, because as mentioned previously, they can DD, not get hit, and instead of getting a whm, you can get a blm or another DD.

If the NINs gear is good, he should have atleast one Utsusemi up by the time the shadows wear off, and he should be able to blink tank again, so I don't see how they do bad without shadows.

Ninjas also have magic spells to keep hate, blind, poision, elemental types and stuff that do a pretty good amount of damge sometimes and also can MB. Ninjas were meant to be a DD so they can DD to keep hate and then tank better to conserve mp, so you can constantly chain.

PLDs can keep hate good and have a lot of abilities, but they attack weaker, they get hit and make the healer waste more mp, and the less mp your mages have, the less mobs you fight fast for chains, less chains you get, less exp. I just like ninjas better because they speed up the party. :biggrin:

 

[Shaunessy]

Don't you worry about it. Just know that I will save you if ever need help, because I'm from the internet. And if I can't handle the problem myself then I call in my sidekicks.

Those guys will take on everything, and you only need to give them a loaf of bread in return.

 

[Darklion]

I prefer NIN over PLD, but I get what I can. I like nin more, because as mentioned previously, they can DD, not get hit, and instead of getting a whm, you can get a blm or another DD.

If the NINs gear is good, he should have atleast one Utsusemi up by the time the shadows wear off, and he should be able to blink tank again, so I don't see how they do bad without shadows.

Ninjas also have magic spells to keep hate, blind, poision, elemental types and stuff that do a pretty good amount of damge sometimes and also can MB. Ninjas were meant to be a DD so they can DD to keep hate and then tank better to conserve mp, so you can constantly chain.

PLDs can keep hate good and have a lot of abilities, but they attack weaker, they get hit and make the healer waste more mp, and the less mp your mages have, the less mobs you fight fast for chains, less chains you get, less exp. I just like ninjas better because they speed up the party. :biggrin:

I seen NINs go fights without needing one Cure, WHM has sooo much MP that he used Holy and banishingII for MB on light SC, NIN just brings soo much more to the table and added it also allows other jobs to bring more to the table.

and by now if you don't know how to PT with a NIN and steal hate from them then you are tryin to hard to out do a NIN cept for mnks and rngs, it just comes natural.

Ya I've died more with a NIN tank then with a PLD but thats just cause I love big numbers, but if I die 3 times within the hour I will still be nettin more XP gain an hr then with a PLD tank, mind you I would need RII for that.

 

[Passions]

If your gonna talk about BLM try questioning something realistic & closer to home, but then I don't know of any job that even rivals a BLM in what it does.

SMN does in end game. SMN PWNS in endgame like a PLD does in END GAME. BLM PWNS in exp like a NIN does in EXP. The main reason why its not 18 smn's is because there arn't that many smn's in endgame shells. Which is why there is still a heavy demand for blms. blms can also cast a little faster then a smn hmmm. i think were seeing a trend here.

Personally I think WHM have it hardest. Good white mages gotta keep staring at HP bars, MP bars & txt from mob attacks to make sure they take care of status ailements.

WHM is a joke, i have no idea how people can be as shitty as some can be on whm. LoO was the funnest place to lvl whm because of the constant status effects. WHM for the most part is pretty laid back regen the pld let him get some hate, then toss him some cures.

The problem w/starting parties is that people leave fast if you cannot find the key jobs Healer & Refresher while forming PT. A party is nothing at the higher lvls without these 2 & since they have so much influence on a PT most of the time I leave it up to one of these to start the PT.

Bards hate pld's (generally) because of placement issues so a invite from a bard probably wont happen. Both jobs are high demand fast xp jobs, which means they will go for the high demand fast xp tank (nin). Your biggest error is waiting for a rdm to invite YOU. They dont even have to put there flag up some times and they get a invite. I got an invite while in Ifrits caldrin on rdm doing zm 5 >.>.

 

[Sculli]

To everyone involved in this discussion:
Please keep in mind that personal flames are not acceptable outside the flameboard. You can attack one's argument with a counter argument all you want, but when you make it personal, then Sculli is not amused.

An attitude like: "It's ok if I flame, they will just move it to the flameboard and that is that." is not acceptable either.

I sincerely hope this is understood. Carry on.

 

[Bajaratt]

You obviously are another that fails to realize I'm not attacking or defending shit, for all those I've had to repeat myself to, please stear clear of any posts I make in the future, I do not find it entertaining trying to defend myself against so many superiority complexes at once.

Ok, apparently you don't know the meaning of the word defending and attacking, so I'll post where you've done just that. I don't have a superiority complex, I'm just pointing out the utter lack of logic behind the bullshit you're spewing out and how you're ignoring everything rational. If anything, you're the one trying to come off as superior by ignoring valid points and just saying "you don't understand."

PLD is still the more hardcore tank.

An absolutist statement saying that pld > nin, it's also a form of attack.

A tank's job is to defend & keep party members alive, not to produce fast exp like NIN does currently (although it is nice).

Saying that nin isn't doing the job of a tank, another attack. This is, of course, completely ignoring that a nin is capable of keeping the party safe and cranking out exp.

There's no way in hell I acknowledge NIN as being a better tank.

Another absolutionist statement, one without any reasoning at all behind it, all based on the bias that you're a pld not a nin. You then go on to ignore everyone who says that a nin tank is better in certain situations

We are not talking about all other situations, we are talking about EXP, as far as exp is concerned yes PLD can use a boost to make things even for that aspect & that aspect alone...EXP!

That's defensive, saying nin > pld in terms of exp.

Since this thread is about PLD vs NIN for exp parties, it has been said several times now that it would be nice for SE to even the playing field when it comes to speed of exp gain between the 2 jobs by altering their abilities, traits or items.

More defensive, saying you need more to match that of ninja.

If it's even why are PLD taking a backseat & sitting around waiting for PT? It's been over a week that I've been seeking PT & stuck at lvl 71. There have been many times that I've got stuck without a PT for a whole month. NIN can cast 2 Utsusemi ninjitsu back to back, PLD can only cast flash & then start taking hits till flash is rdy again. Something is needed to boost a PLD's ability to regain MP constantly, a Job Trait or some stackable item like how NIN can toolbag shihei.

And more about how you think paladin needs more to help them out, oh it's because you've had to lfg before!

Nin's don't get invited the second they toss their flag up, that's bard you're thinking of. I've gone days without parties on my ninja, albeit it's only 36 now, but I've still had to lfg before. Rather than blame all your probelms on another job, maybe you should think that all the parties might be full or there might not be enough people online to form a party. I've spent hours lfg on my bard before for just that reason, no parties needed me and there were no tanks online to build my own.

So, one last time. Paladin and Ninja are fine as tanks, neither is absolutely better than the other. Situationally, one is preferred over the other, depending on the situation. Generally, paladins offer safer exp, with their massive hate tools, and their ability to cure them selves. Ninjas generally offer less downtime, because they dodge/parry every hit or lose a shadow. People usually would prefer fast to safe, as long as people don't die all the time. If you don't like it, play ninja.

 

[gir]

You obviously are another that fails to realize I'm not attacking or defending shit, for all those I've had to repeat myself to, please stear clear of any posts I make in the future, I do not find it entertaining trying to defend myself against so many superiority complexes at once.

Contradicting yourself in the same sentence? And yet you wonder why everyone is attacking you. The lone voice of reason.

Well, to be honest, I just finished reading this thread and it's been a flame war on Isotope. Iso, I hope you realize it's hard to see what you're getting at, because it comes off as so inflammatory and contradictory. Rather than offerring evidence to support your claims, it seems you have formed your opinions and then sought only evidence that confirms what you already believe. And when a friend tried to offer constructive criticism, you didn't take it well. How are you going to take this criticism?

In my experience, NIN has meant more xp/hr. This has held true whether as WAR, DRG, THF, BLM, or WHM. I find that when I'm in synch with a good NIN, I'm always casting flash when they're casting ichi, and I can have great xp without a RDM or BRD. That said, I will always pick a PLD I know to be good over an unknown NIN. Still, I voted NIN. If the question were "What Tank you will pick for your endgame" NOT "your exp pt" I will choose a galka PLD, hands down. Though I believe a properly equipped WAR/NIN may trump that, I have yet to see such a WAR in action.

On a side note, someone asked if PLD can have phalanx. You can try Spartan Hoplon (the shield Vandoura was referring to). It's nice.

 

[dedalius]

There is also a down side for a NIN as a tank. It make WHM lazy, their healing skill is sucks and they always complain about do i really have to heal the pt, etc etc etc. Yes, it conserve the MP, but make their magic skill sucks. but an advanage is WHM can Banish III MB if PT doing light SC, and make better divine skill. and remember that NIN lose all shadows when mob AOE which NIN mostly hated, and if both uts still recasting, healer have to spam Cure V and IV to catch up with 100-300 damage nin is taken which make it even worst to keep hate undercontrol.

As for PLD they have MP, even tho isn't much, it give healer some time to rest the mp, while pld keeping hate, at the same time, a good tank will only make healer used 200mp at lowest per mob while pld only lose like 100-200 when the mob die of their max while PLD can still heal themself.

Even tho there is a downtime having pld in a pt, it can control links, NIN can't, they only have 1 provoke, and a lot of nin spell, so, what if you don't have blm or rdm to sleep II the mob? You'll be in a deep doodoo, but pld can use flash or provoke to back it up when there is a links. Slow but safe..

is better to be safe then fast exp, when you die, got raise, you need to wait for weaken to wears off which create more downtime. PLD will reduce that downtime by tanking safely..

So my point is that PLD have the same EXP speed as a NIN pt, if everything goes well

4 days ago I made 7k per hour as PLD/SAM/BLM/BRD/MNK/WHM, which is isn't bad...

Not going to read the rest of the crap in this thread that happened after I last posted, it doesn't look too promising.

Nins don't make bad whms. Whms who whine about doing their job make bad whms.

If everything goes well, then NIN pt won't have people dying. And saying NIN Pts can't control links is ignorant. I've had plenty of competitive NIN tanking parties in Bibiki where we would purposefully get an extra dhamel, bird, or gob so that other parties can't. With a blm and either of the two refreshing jobs, you should have absolutely no problem sleeping mobs.

Yes, you can make 7k/hr with a pld tank, but with a similar setup except a nin and a rdm instead of a pld and a whm you can pull upwards of 9-10k. That's what it's all about. I'm not saying plds are bad at xping, because they aren't. I'm saying that a good nin will beat out a good pld any day in an xp party. If you go endgame though, I'd take a pld any day over a nin. They each have their specialties.

Edit: gramatics, and a couple points I missed.

 

[Skaw]

Yes but you also saying the PLD would have lvl cooking, which means lots of gil spent before getting to the point to spend money for ingredients when able to make such things.

Yagudo Drinks cap at 60, conveniently, subcraft skill cap should you take something else to 100, so it plays no impact on your crafting option. Not to mention 0-60 Cooking can be done on the cheap, I think I spent 250k doing it.

Buburimu Grapes and Yagudo Cherries, incidentally, come from the same region vendor, Kolshushu. It's extremely rare for this place to be under beastmen control, with Labyrinth of Onzozo and Bibiki Bay being popular, low-moderate risk EXP areas.

Water Clusters drop, literally, like Rain. Water is probably the most common weather effect around.

Leveling cooking also allows you to make Mulsum(Caps at 56,) which is a stackable, MP+10 restoration item. Which is also a pretty cheap item to make.

Neither Yagudo Drinks or Mulsum have HQ yields, so having Cooking deadlocked at 60 will make you equal to a 100 Cook with GP items in regards to these.

It's an option that would make you a better PLD over all, much like the NIN that levels his crafts to make his own tools to save gil.

 

[Darklion]

Water Clusters drop, literally, like Rain. Water is probably the most common weather effect around.

im going with Earth, but thats just me.

 

[Skaw]

im going with Earth, but thats just me.

Nah, the only reason Earth Clusters sell for so low compared to the rest, is because Earth Crystals drop from just about everything, and it would be stupid to price Clusters higher than Crystal stacks.

Regardless, saying it requires "a lot of gil" to level cooking high enough to make Yagudo Drinks is just flat out wrong.

 

[Darklion]

Nah, the only reason Earth Clusters sell for so low compared to the rest, is because Earth Crystals drop from just about everything, and it would be stupid to price Clusters higher than Crystal stacks.

Regardless, saying it requires "a lot of gil" to level cooking high enough to make Yagudo Drinks is just flat out wrong.

Do farmin for 2 hrs tops can get you 1-60 in cooking? thats alot of ...
oh no its not NVM.

 

[Isotope]

Bards hate pld's (generally) because of placement issues so a invite from a bard probably wont happen. Both jobs are high demand fast xp jobs, which means they will go for the high demand fast xp tank (nin). Your biggest error is waiting for a rdm to invite YOU. They dont even have to put there flag up some times and they get a invite. I got an invite while in Ifrits caldrin on rdm doing zm 5 >.>.

Soon I won't have to worry about the whole bard hating pld's issue, I'm raising my sister's BRD who is more then happy to PT with me, we've played many MMORPGS together.... now where did I put that whm? hmm... :16suspect1:

EDIT: Oh ya now I remember, he quit FFXI for the 5th & final time to play WoW.... -.-

 

[Isotope]

Another absolutionist statement, one without any reasoning at all behind it, all based on the bias that you're a pld not a nin. You then go on to ignore everyone who says that a nin tank is better in certain situations.

I'm sorry I guess I should clear things up a bit for you... NIN do tank better in certain situations this is how I came up with the previous opinional statement (of coarse anything anyone here spits out is always going to be an opinion) that PLD is a more Hardcore tank. PLD have been mentioned multiple times by others as being Hardcore in end-game situations, but being able to have end-game & be able to pull it's own through exp parties gives it that hardcore feel.

And more about how you think paladin needs more to help them out, oh it's because you've had to lfg before!

Lol don't get childish with me. Everyone has LFG (EverQuest term, possibly others too) before. I've never been one to always get a exp party on a day I wanted one like some other jobs.

Rather than blame all your probelms on another job, maybe you should think that all the parties might be full or there might not be enough people online to form a party.

If I was to point any fingers it would be at those that take their opinion of NIN being a better exp so far to the extent that they don't really even think of PLD being an option unless truly desperate.

I see it every night we make PTs, First we look for a NIN tank and we can't find it then we manaburn. if that fails we use are time more effectively by doing quest and what not. PLD is really now worth the XP unless you really are in need of XP.

So, one last time. Paladin and Ninja are fine as tanks, neither is absolutely better than the other. Situationally, one is preferred over the other, depending on the situation. Generally, paladins offer safer exp, with their massive hate tools, and their ability to cure them selves. Ninjas generally offer less downtime, because they dodge/parry every hit or lose a shadow. People usually would prefer fast to safe, as long as people don't die all the time.

This is all too obvious.