What will you do when the microchip becomes mainstream?

[Chasym]

i hope when this happens i dont get a delievery boy chip like Fry was supposed to...

 

[Bajaratt]

I dunno baja, thats cool that u believe that, but i wouldnt put anything past the peeps in charge atm.

No, I'm not putting it past people, because I'm sure there's people who would love to monitor everyone's movements; no, I'm saying the technology can't do what you think it can do. I'm saying that in it's current form it's an impossibility; unless there's some significant changes in the current techology from it's current form then wide-spread tracking will never happen from this microchip.

 

[Daveman]

You apparently missed the part where I said wide-spread tracking is technologically impossible. There is no tracking system involved, all it does is store information. Even to assume that you're right and the chips can be tracked, the cost of doing so would be so enormous(hundreds of billions, if not trillions, just for the tracking stations) that congress would never approve of it, nor would there ever be enough manpower to actually monitor these things. Plus, the people themselves would not stand for it, the way these chips are designed means there would be no nation-wide network for them to fulfill their purpose; so unless congress starts talking about building such a thing, there is no valid concern about being tracked.

If you've ever heard of the slippery slope arguement, not worrying about this now is not an option. What if it becomes as cheap as $1 per square mile of coverage wirelessly due to some new technology?

And saying people won't stand for it? What if stores start using it to make it "easier" to shop, you just walk out the store with stuff, automatically billed. what if buses and airplanes and trains do the same? Replace EZ-pass with it too while we're at it. Makes life easier don't it?

Sure there's no reason to worry about it now, but what if the future isn't so great? What if the united states became much more controlling (which if you've kept up, has been happening slowly over the years), to the point your say no longer matters? May sound like paranoia, but in truth it's possible.

 

[Bajaratt]

If you've ever heard of the slippery slope arguement, not worrying about this now is not an option. What if it becomes as cheap as $1 per square mile of coverage wirelessly due to some new technology?

And saying people won't stand for it? What if stores start using it to make it "easier" to shop, you just walk out the store with stuff, automatically billed. what if buses and airplanes and trains do the same? Replace EZ-pass with it too while we're at it. Makes life easier don't it?

Sure there's no reason to worry about it now, but what if the future isn't so great? What if the united states became much more controlling (which if you've kept up, has been happening slowly over the years), to the point your say no longer matters? May sound like paranoia, but in truth it's possible.

I know about the slippery slope argument, but you don't understand that it doesn't apply here. I'm not saying that there will never be an abuse because everyone is perfect and trustworthy to not abuse the technology; I'm saying that the technology is so limited in it's capability that there is no potential for abuse. Unless putting in this one chip is going to lead to everyone having a bunch of chips inside them there is no slippery slope.

I have the same technology as this microchip in my car and there is no active tracking capability at all. Unless there are huge parts of this microchip that they're lying about, which I doubt, then the possibility of actively tracking is impossible. The only feasible way to track someone with this technology, is to require them to scan their arm before they enter any building or any room; which would cost insane amounts of money for all those scanners and would serve no purpose at all other than to track people; so people would obviously notice.

People could stand for the convenience of not having to deal with a wallet, which is what your examples were, and which is exactly what I said in the beginning of this thread. It's not like there's a switch they could flip and all of these microchips would start broadcasting their positions, leading to all kinds of abuses; the technology just isn't in the microchip.

If the chip had the potential to actively track someone, then I could see the argument, I could even support it even though I don't really care if someone tracks me. But you all are talking like people are being lowjacked when the microchips aren't physically capable of doing that.

 

[Mai Ikari]

Let's put it this way.

The chip in your cat or dog does not have a GPS transmitter. If it did, you wouldn't need the other info inside it in the first place. It's an RFID tag, you gotta hold the scanner like 3 inches away from it to get the signal. What we're talking about here is the exact same technology, for humans.

The chips they would install, if the technology was available for ultra-cheap tracking, may have GPS or something similar, and thus be possible to track, etc.

Well here's a thought. If you got chipped before that sudden improvement in wireless, what are they gonna do? Call you in because wireless tracking methods have improved and they need to upgrade your chip with a tracker? As Baja said, obvious attempts at tracking are just that, obvious. And beyond that, the cost of tracking every single person in America is just too expensive to imagine. We're not talking the millions that regularly slip through the budget to finance some black project, we're talking billions and billions required to set up and maintain the most extensive and detailed tracking network known to mankind. "Mr.President? Why had national debt doubled in the past year?" Yea, that's gonna be a reeeeeeal sneaky way to track people.

They may very well install a quick-RFID-scanner in the enterance of most buildings, so that during a fire, rescue workers could download a list of the building's occupants in a second. But it wouldn't be connected to some vast covert government tracking network, companies would not take kindly to that, maybe complain? That's assuming, of course, RFID tags, not GPS transmitters.

Take it a step further, say the GPS network really does exist. Give police access to the network, suddenly you don't have people who run off and hide in the woods and escape justice for 10 years. Police just plug their name into the spoooooky government tracking system, and they show up as a green dot on the map, and are arrested in 24 hours. Depending how good the system is, they might be able to pull up locational backlogs and prove that somebody was/was not at the scene of the crime when it took place.

I see benefits to a tracking system like this. The current cost of such is absolutely ridiculous, attempting to keep something this complex behind closed doors is absolutely ridiculous. But having a fully public system with search access granted to police and the like, implemented whenever Daveman's amazing wireless breakthrough happens, it could do things for society.

Last three things, didnt' really fit elsewhere.

First, there's this amazing thing called "batteries." GPS needs them. Battery technology has not improved in quite a few years. There are no batteries strong enough to power a GPS transmitter that they could pack into an injected microchip. It's just not physically possible. Stop thinking it. A RFID tag has a very very short range, otherwise it'd burn through its batteries in days rather than years. And you're talking about something that can transmit hudreds of yards, if not into orbit a la GPS?

Second... they're not going to be a kill switch or mind control chip. Go wear your tinfoil hat (which amplifies mind control rays, btw) somewhere else.

Third.

First of all, if you believe in any story about 9/11, it's a conspiracy theory. We just don't have all of the information we need to come to a completely factual conclusion.

A conspiracy theory attempts to explain the ultimate cause of an event (usually a political, social, or historical event) as a secret, and often deceptive, plot by a covert alliance of powerful people or organizations rather than as an overt activity or as natural occurrence. Researchers who advocate the conspiratorial view claim that most major events in history have been dominated by conspirators who manipulate political happenings from behind the scenes.

In common usage, people often use the word theory to signify a conjecture, an opinion, or a speculation. In this usage, a theory is not necessarily based on facts, in other words, it is not required to be consistent with true descriptions of reality. True descriptions of reality are more reflectively understood as statements that would be true independently of what people think about them.

THEY ARE NOT THE SAME THING, THERE IS THEORY, AND THERE IS CONSPIRACY THEORY! NOT THE SAME THING!

Conspiracy theory means that there are behind-the-scenes activities, theory has no relation to them. Please check your local dictionary before posting something like that again.

 

[Stouter]

Watch the documentary in my sig. I promise it's nothing like Loose Change. It has no theory in it. It's pure factual information from nothing more than mainstream media sources and interviews with family members of 9/11 victims.

That's not a documentary, that's propaganda. Presenting one side of a case and mixing it in with emotional testimonies is not a documentary.

 

[Zimzum]

This is already in place just not inserted physicly in the body.

Credit cards - Track you were ever you go. Knows what you bought and for how much. Its not a real time tracker , but does leave a trail.

Cell Phones - Almost everyone and there mother carry one now. They all have some sort of GPS built in. If you dont beleave me, call 911 and tell them you dont know your location. They will look you up by your cell phone location. People leave them on and in there pocket. Whats to stop big brother now from taking a peek at where you are?


If a chip was put in the body with real time gps we would need surgery on a monthly bases to replace the battery. Some of these conspiracy theories are just plain nuts.

 

[Mai Ikari]

Some of these conspiracy theories are just plain nuts.

I have a definition of Conspiracy Theory that mostly fits with the one from Wikipedia.

Conspiracy Theory: Fictitious story invented by someone who does not think that life is interesting enough, and thus adds spice to their life, and shares it with others.

Oh, and on a disturbingly related note, accidentally searching idchip instead of id chip turned up this gem of a page as the result.

And on another note... Pacemakers have all the parts nessacary for a full GPS tracking system to be installed inside, and I've not yet heard a conspiracy theory about them.

 

[Bajaratt]

The complete fucking truth

Exactly, but people aren't even bothering trying to understand the technology, they just hear microchip and think it's a wonder chip that can do anything the government wants in an instant.

 

[Daveman]

I know about the slippery slope argument, but you don't understand that it doesn't apply here. I'm not saying that there will never be an abuse because everyone is perfect and trustworthy to not abuse the technology; I'm saying that the technology is so limited in it's capability that there is no potential for abuse. Unless putting in this one chip is going to lead to everyone having a bunch of chips inside them there is no slippery slope.

I have the same technology as this microchip in my car and there is no active tracking capability at all. Unless there are huge parts of this microchip that they're lying about, which I doubt, then the possibility of actively tracking is impossible. The only feasible way to track someone with this technology, is to require them to scan their arm before they enter any building or any room; which would cost insane amounts of money for all those scanners and would serve no purpose at all other than to track people; so people would obviously notice.

People could stand for the convenience of not having to deal with a wallet, which is what your examples were, and which is exactly what I said in the beginning of this thread. It's not like there's a switch they could flip and all of these microchips would start broadcasting their positions, leading to all kinds of abuses; the technology just isn't in the microchip.

If the chip had the potential to actively track someone, then I could see the argument, I could even support it even though I don't really care if someone tracks me. But you all are talking like people are being lowjacked when the microchips aren't physically capable of doing that.

Exactly, but people aren't even bothering trying to understand the technology, they just hear microchip and think it's a wonder chip that can do anything the government wants in an instant.

The thing is, right now if we had a chip, that broadcasted a signal, and told people to implant it, most people would say "hell no!". But what if we start with a RFID chip on a credit card, so you can "walk out" of the store, who wouldn't want one of those as long as it was an easy process. Then what if someone combined more chips onto a new card, or even under your watch. Eventually they could come up with a removable implant, to make life easier. Now you don't need car keys, house keys, a wallet, anything! how great!

And so on, until we have an implant that can broadcast stuff as far as a cellphone, and uses either existing cellphone towers, or totally new towers to pick up signals.

As for it costing too much, or technology not being availible. I would bet money that my calculator has more processing power than a mainframe that costed $10,000,000 built by IBM in the 1950's.

It's not about "flipping the switch", more about normalizing you to the idea of having a chip on you, so one day when they finally roll out the abusable chip, you think it's another convienance.

 

[Sneakypants]

I don't care who feels strongly one way or the other. I just don't like the idea of putting a chip under my skin. The conspiracy and tracking discussions don't bother me...We can be tracked today. It's just that I wouldn't want this thing inside me. I'd want to scrape it out with my kitchen knives.
I didn't grow up with the Model-T Ford, but I'm damn glad I am not part of the generation that will accept this as commonplace. If you don't draw a line for yourself, nobody will do it for you.

 

[Sapper]

Everything in the world has a practical use until it's used in an extremely negative way.

I agree, there are so many positives about this but people will abuse the system like they always have. Pets are required to be microchipped in most US counties and all of Europe. This helps to get the critters home, thier med history, etc. I dont know if people are ready to be microchipped, I would get one tho

 

[Shaunessy]

The new Army uniforms have some interesting tech on them. Hey Busta you ever read the Illuminati Trilogy?

 

[Bustaballs]

Then what if someone combined more chips onto a new card, or even under your watch. Eventually they could come up with a removable implant, to make life easier. Now you don't need car keys, house keys, a wallet, anything! how great!

I really don't like it. The things aren't even very popular and crackers are already hacking and duping them. I feel a huge security issue here. With a chip, someone could secretly scan your chip as they pass you and have all of your info. With the old fashioned stuff, someone would have to break into your house or mug you on the street to get that kind of info. At least you'd know about it then. Identity theives seem to be getting more common. I just prefer having my papers, keys, voice, etc.

 

[Bajaratt]

Given the really short range of the detector, they'd almost have to grab you to scan you, which you would probably notice. Plus, there are some materials that the signals don't pass through, so I'm sure there would be something you coudl wear to block that signal.

 

[Bustaballs]

I suppose. I'll just wait for more information to come out on it. If they can make it very hack-proof and it doesn't have a tracking device then I might be ok with an electronic keychain or card.

 

[Raesvelg]

As has been pointed out, most cellphones already incorporate positional broadcasting. If you're wearing a phone, the government *could* already know where you are.

Here's the thing. The paranoid fear of "OMG THE GOVT KNOWS WHERE I AM AND WHERE I GO AND WHO I SEE AND BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH!!" is rather hollow given the fact that, with a simple surveillance order, they can already know those things. Having a chip put in that would let them track the movements of most people in real-time is simply an increase of SCALE, not POWER.

Assume for a minute that they put together a device, coupled with the proper infrastructure, that lets them monitor everyone with a chip, where they go, what they buy, who they see, etc. Now assume that information is automatically logged to a secure server and can only be released with a court order. At that point, what you have is the status quo of today, only actual surveillance and information gathering activities by law-enforcement officers would be cut to a few keystrokes rather than months.

Is that really such a bad thing?

 

[Daveman]

Is that really such a bad thing?

If you've read about the recent phone tap scandals, yes, it is a bad thing, as it'll be abused. Power curropts.

 

[Sharpe]

I'd never ever have a chip implanted in me. I'm British and therefore naturally conservative.

Edit - I have the same feelings with these as I do with ID cards, i'll go to prison before I have one.

 

[Bajaratt]

I'd never ever have a chip implanted in me. I'm British and therefore naturally conservative.

Edit - I have the same feelings with these as I do with ID cards, i'll go to prison before I have one.

So... you can't travel at all and aren't an official citizen of your government? I can understand apprehension about being implanted with an ID chip, but no form of ID at all? That just sounds beyond crazy to me.