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Rones said:
Svina said:
]Idunno bout you but WHM was my first job and I sure as hell managed to make more than 300k at the level 20s...
Svina, you know you aren't a good example for that. :wink: You spent weeks crafting to get your money. Most players at lvl 32 on their first job (whm or melee) won't have 300k gil spare. I didn't break 100k pocket change until I reached lvl 53 when I was going for a 360k darkstaff on my first job. This is much like the vermillion coat argument, yes it is helpful to have, but the cost/benefit ratio is too steep for most who don't have that kind of money just laying around (myself included).

This isn't supposed to address when WHMs need Erase, or how fair it is or isn't to compare scroll cost to EQ cost, or be a commentary on Rones/Svina (the above quotes are just what got me going about this).

As time goes by, I find I have less and less sympathy for people whining about money. Yeah, it takes time to get, but guess what--no one [provided you didn't buy your gil] just wakes up with 300k laying around. Everyone works for it in some way or another--SE doesn't just go, "Oh, that guy, well, he's a WHM, it's gonna be tough to farm, but he's really driven to be uber, let's plop a scroll of Erase in his mailbox." People invest time and/or money in leveling a craft, or farming, or playing the AH, or whatever. Sure some methods might be quicker than others, but it's up to you to figure out which is feasible/profitable for you. You're a mage and it's tough to farm? Cry me a river. Either suck it up and find some other way to raise money, or go run around Ghelsba as a lowbie melee and sell the fire crystals--yes, it's going to take an investment of a couple of pieces of cheap armor, and a weapon, and of course, time, but again, farming/fishing/crafting/gardening/logging/mining/chocobo digging are all going to take some investment--materials, or bait, pickaxes, whatever. And maybe the most important thing, they all take time--there's nothing that says you have to shoot through 50 levels.

One last note: most parties don't expect you to have all +1 equipment and whatever NM drops you are able to wear--I don't think it's unreasonable to ask that people have up-to-date gear/spells/whatever.
 
(and don't even get me started on cheap RNGs...I mean, it's not as if it's a surprise that you're going to need lots of ammo--what, did you think those arrows/bolts were going to buy themselves? :roll:)
 
teng said:
This thread is a joke, i (smn) 80% of the time i am main healer and i don't have erase. Does any of the party memers care whether i have erase, answer is a No. They're more concern whether i have fenrir, which i don't have, they ask why, i said, you can help me and no reply suddenly. :shock:

Botton line is 300k is not worth it for a shitty erase scroll and yes SOME ppl will need it at HNM fight BUT how many ppl want to do HNM fights at lv.70, well? Just cause some whm is in an Goddam HML LS doesn't mean he/she has to brag that every WHM must have erase, am i right?

I never got erase, never will too, i rather put that gil into good use in better gear or save it for the next job i level.

You know your job is SMN in this case, you aren't expected to have it. But the fact that you say you'll "never" get it kind of shows laziness to get something people would appreciate you having. That's, again, like a WHM saying "oh well I'll never get Raise III cause it's expensive and rather put the gil to good use in better gear or play another job." Well geez just go play another job then because they give every job these useful tools to make themselves better and Erase is one of those, only for a WHM.
 
My girlfriend, Harmoney, always feels bad because she doesn't have this spell (Erase) at level 55 WHM. I tell her not to worry... 300k can go to much much better use (she's got about 200k+ saved up I believe). For a WHM on a budget, or on their first job (as has been stated many many times), the usefulness of Erase vs. the cost just isn't worth it. How long it takes to get 300k for an average player on their first level 50 job is -I AM GUESSING- equivalent to the time it may take someone who already has a 70+ job to get 1 mil or more. Many players just don't have the means or knowledge. You can argue that it's out there, but for many, the game is just nice to log in, have the tools necessary to do your job effectively in a party, and have some fun.

Erase is nice, but not completely necessary. Evasion down on a NIN tank could be bad, but overcome with a good DRK and BLM in the party to STUN the mob while the NIN recasts, or the same with Slow. But that's another topic for another thread to do with people not using Stun for the party's sake. For players their FIRST TIME THROUGH, I'd much rather them have all their other spells up to date than have something that they might use for one or two parties as Rones pointed out.

Comparing Utsusemi to Erase is bogus. NIN relies on Utsusemi to do their job. WHM relies on Cures. But Rones already pointed this out too..

Will Harm eventually buy Erase? lol Yeah probably, someday, I guess. But I'm not her... I just don't believe 300k is worth what limited use this spell has. Not for what else 300k can get her, i.e., other scrolls.
 
I sometimes wonder why you guys keep trying to deny the fact that Erase is a spell you should have and constantly continue living in denial.

Svina is right. If you dont have the spell, stop and earn money. So many people treat FFXI like FFXI- FORMULA 1 VERSION. This game isnt a race to get to 75. Take some time off and get better gear.

I'm a PLD and hell i even got a Byrnie for shits and giggles. I have other HQ rare items for my PLD and I'm only in my 50s. Yes, PLD is an extremely cheap job i admit. But I'm 100% sure if i had been any other job like a WHM or DD melee, i would have 2x sniperes, valk mask, assault earring, fang earring, etc. etc. etc. you name it.

I honestly DONT think Svina is the "odd one out." I started Smithing and totally put leveling to a halt for almost 2 months to get it to the mid 50s. Made shitloads of money offa darksteel ingots before more retarded nubs killed the price.

Svina definately isnt the "special example" just because he started crafting at an early level. Most of my JP friends also did that, because they knew it would be useful to some extent in the future. Most well-rounded / good players will have some crafts leveled up. Having money in this game is key to being a good player, and cutting corners everywhere possible to make ends meet just doesnt cut it.
 
I sometimes wonder why you guys keep trying to deny the fact that Erase is a spell you should have and constantly continue living in denial.

point taken, eventually all whm/whm subs should and most likely will get this spell, for me it was lvl 62 i decided to drop down the gil and buy it, 300k IS overpriced for this spell, you have to admit that. although, along those lines, melee talk about how inexpensive 300k is to them, well, here's a little something to make you melee blush at the thought of, for white mages, they should, if they can actually manage to round up enough gil, get the noble's tunic, i do not plan to excede lvl 68 without that 10mil gil item, i've picked up gardening, i do fishing, and heck, i've been killing random mobs whenever i have the chance, so that i can save for this tunic. it's abilities are amazing, and could double over my potential in party situations, but, i'm a far cry from 10mil, even more so from buying erase recently. as i've said before, you want all whm to have it, make it more readily avalable to whm buy doing BCNM and lowering the price to lets say 100k (i only view the spell as worth 50k at most, but people gotta make money right?). i mean, people go around, complain cause a lvl 70 white mage couldn't afford raise III, well, for your information, raise III shot up to at least 800k a month ago, supposedly it dropped to 200k recently, which is a nice thing, but come on... the spell was 200k shy of 1mil, and you expect all lvl 70 whm to be able to afford that right away? things i'd like to get to increase my mana pool, have now been pushed back further, 300k for magician's earring, to incrase my MP pool by 30mp, has been pushed back, because people are picky about erase, 1mil for serket ring to increase mana pool by 50mp, pushed back, astral ring, to increase by 25mp, pushed back, healing staff for another +50mp, pushed back, 10mil for noble's tunic, giving auto refresh, cure potentcy +10% and another 17MP, pushed back. by complaining because some lower lvl white mages didnt' have erase, just shows you dont' give a crap about anything white mages do in that game. it's not easy for us in the least, in fact, it is hardest on us, summoners can use avatars, blm have high damage magic attacks, wite mages have cures, that's it, don't think banish and holy are much, cause i swear, i've never seen holy do more then mabye 220 dmg at the most.

basically, in summary, back off... you play your job, i'll play my job, if you don't like how i play my job, that's your problem, not mine, if i don't like how you play your melee job, i'm not gonna say nothing, cause i don't play high lvl melee jobs, i don't want to, i want to be a white mage, and that's that, period. in time all things will come together for each player, ranting and trying to force your beliefs down other's throats ain't solving anything, i know some of my posts have been quite harsh, i haven't been in a good mood lately, and this post set me off pretty bad, so sorry about that, but back off and let us work, if erase becomes important enough, we'll get it, if it stays unimportant, we'll get it just to have a complete spell list, give us a break, we all work at our own pace, if that's pace isn't at yours, cry me a river, that's all i can say to be honest.
 
I sometimes wonder why you guys keep trying to deny the fact that Erase is a spell you should have and constantly continue living in denial.
Just because someone can have it doesn't mean they must. Using your logic, all melees must have peacock charms the moment they can equip them. :roll: Sure, you should probably get it eventually, but there is just no use it for so early on and this is coming from someone who has the spell. It is not useful during most exp. Give me some credit, I've had enough experience with this job. :? At best its a toy to show off that you are rich. Practical exp uses of this spell are close to nil as has been shown over and over again.
 
This is my only thought on the matter. Everyone is always complaining “its all about the team, its all about the team”. If this is true, “it is all about the team”, how about you take the time to help WHM’s you know farm the money to buy the spell as a “Team”. Even if you don’t help earn the whole 300k, every little bit helps. I know how hard it was for me to earn 80k for Dispel. I am by no means in a rush to level 75 (I’ve not even thought that far ahead).

Granted that doesn’t apply to a pick up WHM, but I am sure we all know at least one person of any job, that has a high price item they should have.
 
Hmmm....

I think what you need to do is prioritize what is most important. Look at your MP pool and see how often you totally drain it. If you drain it almost every fight, then maybe you need those extra rings.

Two astrals are easily more than enough. Serket ring is a luxury.

Erase on the other hand should be much more important. In over 30 levels, I'm pretty sure you could earn 300k. 2x Astrals arent that bad either.

Furthermore, for those of you who whine about not being able to sell scrolls back. As Krono put it, NIN loses their Utsusemi Ichi and Ni spells which is around 300k total. Ni USED to be 300k, and Ichi around 100k. Yes Utsu is a vital spell and basically is the sole core of a NIN "tank", and you can argue it cant compare to Erase but frankly, I've seen JP WHMs use ERASE in a lot more situations than most of you have lilsted.

As Svina said, take time off to craft, farm, fish, or whatever you do. I earned over 4mil or so in 2 months. Yeah it's pretty slow... 2 mil a month is pretty bad, but hey i got the money, so should other people.
 
Xerius said:
As Svina said, take time off to craft, farm, fish, or whatever you do. I earned over 4mil or so in 2 months. Yeah it's pretty slow... 2 mil a month is pretty bad, but hey i got the money, so should other people.

Please share you secret; at level 31-32 (first job) it took me pretty much 1-month to earn 80k. That was farming for craft items, crafting, just farming for gil and doing repeatable quests. I have killed Bernie so many times; I can do it with out looking now (which thus far is the best money maker I have found).
 
Two astrals are easily more than enough. Serket ring is a luxury.

1mil for serket ring to increase mana pool by 50mp, pushed back, astral ring, to increase by 25mp, pushed back, healing staff for another +50mp, pushed back, 10mil for noble's tunic, giving auto refresh, cure potentcy +10% and another 17MP, pushed back.

luxary? no, sorry my friend, not luxary in the least to me, to me this is need, my gear is either in top shape, or i'm unhappy, granted, i have an average of 25 less MP then a lvl 70whm/blm tarutaru, and i do rarely run out of MP, but having that little boost of MP is really nice, considering when i'm using avatar buffs on my party, such as aerial armor, becaue i can cast this bloodpact and it lasts quite long, and its AOE, so i try to keep myself and the black mage blinked at all times, another VERY useful bloodpact that is quite overlooked is shining ruby, it increases the party DEF by about 24 DEF at lvl 62, which is great! it even lasts a full battle before needing to recast, granted, i dont' recast it left and right, but if my party is struggling with a mob, i can use it to help them out. MP is not a luxary for me, it's a must, i do my job as efficiently as i can, and the more MP i have the better. i have yet to see a large massicare of my party when we hit links, i have the MP to cover them and get most if not all to safety, "my life before my party" you can quote me on that.
 
I already told you how. I made mithkabobs for a week and sold them in Jeuno. You'd probably hate me if I mentioned that I undercut to sell faster but hey, I made over 600k in that week off cooking alone. Which, isn't horrible but compared to the money I can make now if I want to...is just awful >_>
 
rich crafters...maybe i should craft...hmm...think a week and 300k will get me high enough to make 1.5 mil for my hauby easily? ><
 
I wasn't going to post here because pretty much everything Rones says is how I feel, but here I go anyway ...

The one thing that was most important to me when leveling my whm was my party. I felt that I needed all my spells to do my job right. What was most important was having all my cure's, protectra's, shellra's, haste, regen's, blindna, raises, reraises, stona, etc.

I tried for many levels to get people to do a BCNM with me to no avail. Something always came up to take precedence over the BCNM. I'm also a cross zone whm for high levels to Raise III them. I know alot of you can attest to that and also that I, for the most part, will drop what I'm doing to get to you in time. If I'm doing something with my LS that is where I draw the line, and I always put in my search comment that I'm busy doin' whatever so please don't ask me cuz I feel bad saying no.

I've tried to be the best whm I can, but the one thing I couldn't ever pull off, was my erase scroll. And, if you know me, I've said forever I was a gimped whm cuz I didn't have that damn spell.

Needless to say, when push came to shove, we were in King Ramphere's Tomb one day leveling and Prophecy was my Pld, and some Drk (I think it was drk) got slowed or something like that and he called out for erase and I didn't have it at level 70+ yet. I know this is really bad. You can't flame me more than I've flamed myself. Anyway, he started giving me crap about it and Prophecy sent me a tel and said not to worry about it cuz even though I didn't have erase he knew when I was his whm he was in good hands.

Before that there was a time in Ro'Maeve and I was getting crap from someone about it and Tenkax sent me a tel and said something to me, which will stay in that "tel". But I said then, and I'll say it now, thanks Tenkax cuz you really helped me that day by saying what you did (if you even remember).

Anyway, if you look in the AH at the cost of whm spells vs. blm spells and furthermore rdm spells, that's a lot of gil. Especially on top of having decent armour and rings and such.

I know that Rng and Nin are very expensive also, but we're talking a major dd and a tank here, who can farm and make a really decent profit to level crafts and do NM's, yada yada. I'm not trying to make excuses here. It's a fact. Whm's are weak. We are healers, not nukers, etc. Our enfeebles sure don't do much damage and we can't hit for squat. So, you say, well then craft. Well it takes gil to craft. I'm a lvl 94 cook and I've spent a ton leveling it, and cooking is the least expensive craft to level (so I've heard). Yes, I make steamed crab and sell it not only in a bazaar but also at the AH. Also, Hobgoblin Chocolate, but then I have "my" plds who send me the ingredients and I synth it for them for free. What can I say, you're good to me, I'm good to you.

Needless to say, I finally did get my erase scroll and quite honestly since I've had it, I've maybe used it 20 times total and by the time I cast erase whatever the problem was is gone anyway. Where I feel the spell is important is with Dia and Bio. Other than that, it really isn't much good imho. Most of the things you get from mobs are being paralyzed, blinded, petrified, cursed, silenced, etc. Well we have all those spells to take care of those things.

And now I'm sure I'll be told I suck as a whm, but oh well, that's my opinion on it.
 
comparing a 300k scroll to a 7mil neckpiece is retarded. thats all i have to say about that.


Erase is one of the most useful spells in the game for a WHM. No matter what you are fighting every enemy has some kind of status effect and many times this effect does not have a -na spell attached.

Fighting dhamels in Bibiki Bay. Dhamel uses its defense down move. Suddenly our level 70 Elvaan pld's def is no joke "115". Unless thats erased your pld is now taking more damage than a level 50 tarutaru white mage. Nice eh? Spider slow in Dragon's Aery WILL kill a ninja tank. And guess what removes it? oh yeah erase! Beetles or Bats using EVA down on the ninja tank will hurt him severely. But oh nevermind its ok he has to scramble to keep his shadows up (costing him a rather large sum of money) because you as the WHM cant erase it. Oh and if you get smacked becase he was recasting and you had to heal him too much thats his fault. right.

Armor can be sold back yes, but to get my haubby i had to put forth 1.5mil. i had to HAVE it to buy it and guess what i sold it back for? 1.2 mil. OH SHIT! i lost 300k!!!!!!!!!! thats enough for an.......ERASE SCROLL!!!!!!!! HOLY SHIT SOMETIMES PRICES CHANGE ON ARMOR AND YOU LOSE YOUR ASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do i expect a 32 whm to have erase? god no. do i expect a 60whm to have erase? meh...i consider him a dedicated whm if he does but not essential. Do i expect the 65 whm to have it? YES. At this point the spell's uses are important enough to make it worth buying.

Erase is FAR more useful than that vermillion or nobles. Nobles is like the peacock charm, if you have it wow thats dedicated. Vermilion is like the haubergeon, if you have it wow you actually care enough about your job to farm for a month. Erase is not comparable to either. My ABSORB-DEX scroll was 300k... but i got it at 60. And its a far less useful spell than erase.

Saying a spell isnt worth it because of the price tag is ludicrous.
Ask anyone who pt's with Kateeverlasting the 75 whm without erase and they will tell you how much they wish she had it.
 
Btw, I've had erase since lvl 71 or 72. Mistaya missed that part I guess and I don't want anyone else to overlook it either.

And again, as I've already said, you cannot flame me more than I've already flamed myself. Thank you.
 
Zanaga said:
"my life before my party" you can quote me on that.

YES!!!!! Finally i found saomeone who is willing to die for party. I am one of those ppl ^^ I will die and have died in so many times cause i am curing the person who has low life, hell i would even do a divine seal then cure III, uber hate man just to get tanks hp to a reasonable level, then die and they kill the mob. And i side you on that as well, i rather spend on mp+ equip rather than 300k on erase and yes svina i can even get RaiseIII scroll x2 if i wanted NOW. I have the gil to spend so stop arguing this with me ok. Alot of ppl sided that erase is not a useful spell, only a few said it was good and the ones who said that are already lv.65++ whm. And one person pointed out he/she has erase and is disappointed in the scroll itself. Most of the parties i've in, they've never use erase, are you gonna say they are all bad whm, i think not right. They have the scroll, everyone in party was vit down, str down and all that shit, we couldn't care less, we just see mp good and pull the next mob we see for xp chain and yes we are happy with chain #4 unlike some ppl who ONLY wants chain #5. Botton line is, i think someone mentioned this already, IF you have the gil to spare, by all means get the scroll, if not then you will still be a good whm without it, does anyone agree me on this please and let this thread die, ok?
 
Rones said:
Wrong. I'll explain the formula better for you:
[Damage] = [Base Damage] + [D] x [Damage Rate]

Damage is the number that pops up above the mob's head when you smack it.
Base damage is your str - mobs vit. This is the only place str is factored in.
D has to do with the dmg amount on your weapon, eg: 25 dmg club
Damage rate has to do with your attack divided by mobs defense * a variable amount.

I'll get to the above quote in a bit, even though you didn't explain anything in it.

You said earlier that WS damage was even less than 1 dmg / str. This is completely false.

Melee Damage = WD * PDIF = ((D + fSTR + WSC) * fTP) * PDIF
Ranged Damage = WD * PDIF = ((D + fSTR2 + WSC) * fTP) * PDIF

Str is added into fSTR and fSTR2, then it's multiplied by the WS modifier, then it's multiplied by Attack/Def. Slug Shot has a x5 modifier, so each point of STR is multiplied by 5, and then multiplied by ATK/DEF. There are other WS's that have modifiers higher than 1. Take the time to read your own links please. Even the WSC of a lvl 75 won't negate a x5 multiplier and the PDIF.

I assumed that the normal damage was calculated in a similar method as above, as I'm very farmiliar with the above formulas. I assumed it was [Damage] = ([Base Damage] + [D]) x [Damage Rate]. Since there are no examples on that sight showing if the parenthasis should be in there, I won't comment any more on that matter. I do believe that is how it would work though.
 
Mistaya said:
comparing a 300k scroll to a 7mil neckpiece is retarded. thats all i have to say about that.


Erase is one of the most useful spells in the game for a WHM. No matter what you are fighting every enemy has some kind of status effect and many times this effect does not have a -na spell attached.

Fighting dhamels in Bibiki Bay. Dhamel uses its defense down move. Suddenly our level 70 Elvaan pld's def is no joke "115". Unless thats erased your pld is now taking more damage than a level 50 tarutaru white mage. Nice eh? Spider slow in Dragon's Aery WILL kill a ninja tank. And guess what removes it? oh yeah erase! Beetles or Bats using EVA down on the ninja tank will hurt him severely. But oh nevermind its ok he has to scramble to keep his shadows up (costing him a rather large sum of money) because you as the WHM cant erase it. Oh and if you get smacked becase he was recasting and you had to heal him too much thats his fault. right.

Armor can be sold back yes, but to get my haubby i had to put forth 1.5mil. i had to HAVE it to buy it and guess what i sold it back for? 1.2 mil. OH SHIT! i lost 300k!!!!!!!!!! thats enough for an.......ERASE SCROLL!!!!!!!! HOLY SHIT SOMETIMES PRICES CHANGE ON ARMOR AND YOU LOSE YOUR ASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do i expect a 32 whm to have erase? god no. do i expect a 60whm to have erase? meh...i consider him a dedicated whm if he does but not essential. Do i expect the 65 whm to have it? YES. At this point the spell's uses are important enough to make it worth buying.

Erase is FAR more useful than that vermillion or nobles. Nobles is like the peacock charm, if you have it wow thats dedicated. Vermilion is like the haubergeon, if you have it wow you actually care enough about your job to farm for a month. Erase is not comparable to either. My ABSORB-DEX scroll was 300k... but i got it at 60. And its a far less useful spell than erase.

Saying a spell isnt worth it because of the price tag is ludicrous.
Ask anyone who pt's with Kateeverlasting the 75 whm without erase and they will tell you how much they wish she had it.

Amen Amen Amen...

everything you said is perfect.

Especially the part about equipement. It's suffice to say that I've lost at least 500k total in my FFXI career just on items dropping price.

Furthermore, leveling a craft doesnt require you to be a melee job. While i understand melee jobs can farm better etc., there are other alternatives. I was relatively low leveled when I started Smithing. There was nothing i could farm that was "effective". I mined. Mining Darksteel Ores from Zeruhn and Plat Ores from Palborough. I had the dedication to NOT be a gimped player.

Teng, as much as i respect your opinion on "using the money for +MP items", I once again ask you guys how often you run out of MP.

Zanaga. As Mistaya said, Dhalmel lowers DEF. I think it would be more worth it to have erase to counter a move that majorly lowers DEF than to have a bit more MP for shining ruby. Once again this is my opinion.

Cmon guys... its only 300k. /sigh
 
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