I don't see how you'd benefit from change as /war. You already have voke, you wouldn't get 2 indepedant voke timers. I get Thunder from my BLM main and subjob and don't have 2 recast timers.
Would Voke break PLD?
- Thread starter Rufus_Shinra
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You're giving invincible too much credit as far as a hate tool at 75. Maybe at level 10 it's infinite hate but by 75 it's not that big a deal.
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This thread is the dumbest shit I've ever seen. Quit hiding behind provoke you fucking gimp plds. You dont need shit, pld is fine. Stop bitching about nins and leard your god damn job and you will see its power.
Firestreak said:
I was under the impression that the 2 vokes would be on seperate timers and have different names and such. If that's not the case then /mnk or /blu would probably be the best. red mage maybe, but you might get more damage reduction with defender from /war than from phalanx. You wouldn't lose the attack from defender but most of the mobs I fought I barely hit at all so the attack loss wouldn't be very noticeable.
Zoolander said:
For exp without provoke paladin would be like a ninja that takes damage, doesn't do damage, and generally sucks. I've tried to only use flash on exp, that lasted about 1/2 a battle. You need the hate spike from provoke so you can get hit so you can cure yourself mid fight to keep the initial hate.
On HNM (not gods or weak stuff) and when you get access to a lot of haste gear yeah provoke isn't as important and you don't need it to keep hate.
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I dont thaink you will see a ninja ever sub pld. A)no mp is one the + a ninja has B) at 75 you have waht 200mp tops? No mnd and no healing/divine = horrid heals. As for pld war still whould most likely be the #1 sub job for pld it just to good to pass up. A pld/nin whould become no more then a gimp war/nin. pld/rdm pld/whm maybe though that just mean they whould be using more mp and most likely get intrupted alot.
I dont think giving pld ridill make much diffents. Maybe if they adjusted the weapon skills little it whould help. savage blade and vorpal blade are so weak compared to most the other types of weaponskills.kire said:
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Eulore said:
Maybe if they added a merited thing, like you guys said before, it would be much much better. Maybe even an upgrade of a specific blinding spell <.<
Flash II? Flashga? (Oh hell yea). But then again, I dont see a PLD getting any sort of -ga spell EVER. But Flashga.....mmmmmmm
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Nin/drk has 32-137 MP depending on race, I believe Pld and Drk have the same MP pool, so it would be the same. When you're tanking something that lasts more than 10 minutes, max MP means little, it's all about how much refresh you are getting via refresh/ballad/evoker's roll/job traits/gear.hellstorm said:
I've pulled hate off invincible as Rng/Nin, and as Nin/Drk. It's a nice hate tool, but it's not greater than everything else period.
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Stouter said:
Yea, like Firestreak said, Invincible is getting too much credit. Sure it places you at the top of the hate list, but as soon as that hate wears off you will be right back where you were, and unable to use invincible for another 2 hours.
Stouter said:
Race doesn't affect subjob stats.
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Skaw said:
So a Galkan NIN/DRK has the same MP as a Taru NIN/DRK?
Yes, they should. You get the same HP and MP that the job increases by without race. I don't know how attributes are distributed by subjob level, but they're the same race to race.
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Your subjob gives you half of the MP it would give if it were your main job that level. For example, a lvl 17 Taru blm with no subjob (or a no MP subjob) has 206 MP, so a taru would get 103 MP from subbing BLM. This was how I warped when subbing my 17 blm as stouter without any MP gear. A mithra 17 blm has only 152 MP, so when I subbed my 17 blm on Lucy I only have 76 MP, and had to use an Electrum Hairpin to warp as a /blm.Skaw said:
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Skaw said:
Huh, I didnt know that. Ya learn something new every day I suppose.
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but why add your self to the refresh cycle? I can see it may being a sub that can be used in endgame events but in exp party a nin/war whould be better suited. You get your double attack, your berserk, and your defender plus your atk ^ and def^. With nin/pld you get what flash, cover, sentinal, and 1 extra def^. Your not going be using shield so shield mastory be going waste.Stouter said:
Firestreak said:
Now first of all you dont obviously give the tank 5 sec to build any hate, cuz if you would give it 30 sec into the fight, 1 big nuke is nothing.
So as far as I'm concerned, you lack intelligence as a player, or you just dont have you evasion capped and want some skillups.
And as far as tp gain, what he said was that a Pld/war, would get tp just as fast as a Pld/nin.
Because of shield mastery.
But maybe if you actually read something you woulda save both of us some time.
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30 seconds - that's why blms are unpopular 70+ for exp/merits. Waiting 30 seconds for the tank to gather hate is sitting out the battle entirely. I personally would rather pull hate than do nothing. I capped my evasion by not waiting till it was safe to nuke. It's never safe to nuke in a ToAU party. If I'm not charging a nuke up as the imp enters camp, it'll probably be dead before the spell lands. If paladins got voke and it let me be a blm in a traditional party, I'd be all for it. I don't see any need for concern about breaking paladin. Ninja's as close to broken as you can get, its popularity speaks for itself. Making paladin equally broken would just level the playing field. Well it wouldn't really level it. Top rank DD and top rank tank that takes 0 damage 99% of the time will always beat low rate DD and damage taking tank with superior hate control in the eyes of the community. I think SE needs to stop tapdancing around the pld issue with placebo solutions and give the job a real buff to level the playing field.
