Yeah....

[Darkdante]

I am not sure its as simple as you people put it. You keep calling people that bid higher and higher idiots but everyone does it. Why? Because everyone here is under the same assumption: The price is only going to get higher. Under this current thought process, people assume and I think they assume correctly, that the price after they purchase it will only go up. To them, if they pay 5 million gil now and prices are going to rise, they saved themselves money in the long run. They probably also think if they do not buy it, someone else will. And since the price is higher this sale, then more than likely the next seller will see they can get away with a higher price tag and sell for more again. Its a continuous process and never ends. There are certain exceptions, such as new items, but for the most part this holds true.

All you did Lavi is explain the justification and the mindset of people in this example.

IF Hyundai marked the Accent up for $350k and the world was full of fucking idiots like Vanadiel is everybody would pay the $350k and blame Hyundai and call them gilsellers.

This is the reality of what is happening right now in game. Its hilarious.

When actually you want the world to be like this.

The difference here is that Hyundai isn't selling their Accent for $350,000, they're selling it for about $12,000 because that's what they know the car is worth. And if a dealer marked up their Accents for $350k (or even $25-30k, for that matter) they'd be staring at a full car lot for ages because nobody would be willing to pay it.

Does their intelligence level change because they are scared and panicked? Probably. Is that an excuse to be an idiot? No.

I'm sorry, if you pay 350k for a hyundai because your scared the price may go over that your simply an idiot.

 

[alanon]

WOW!!! Im going to be the bad guy here. Ive been leveling woodworking like mad going from 77 to 91.8 in the last 9 weeks. I know it doesnt seem like a lot, but for me, that is powerleveling.

Anyway, yesterday morning, I found myself under 100k for the first time in MONTHS. What did I do? I started dumping stuff!

Ocean Stone - I paid 900k, selling for 2 mil.

Elemental Torque - Had an extra (dont ask). Paid 650k, sold for a cool mil.

This last one is my personal favorite - Demon's cloak. Somewhat rare. Had to camp AH a little to get it myself. Paid 1.9 mil. Was thinking that I might get 2.5 out of it. Noticed the price had jumped from 3mil to 5mil in ONE sale. I thought that was a tad high, so I split the difference and put it up for 4mil. Fucker sold inside of 2 hours too. Personally, I <3 inflation! (right now anyway )

 

[Darkdante]

You'd only be the bad guy to the idiot that bought it at the inflated price.



Personally I think we should flame the idiots who bought those items from you.

 

[Konartist]

You'd only be the bad guy to the idiot that bought it at the inflated price.



Personally I think we should flame the idiots who bought those items from you.

I concur

 

[Braydon]

Well, it sucks, but welcome to economics.

You want to bring prices dow, SE would have to eliminate all NPC money. If the money ingame was froze at a certain amount, then inflation would be so rampent. Or they could raise the drop percentage across the board. Make everything twice as likly to drop.

I dunno, I'm just tossin out some ideas.

 

[Lavi]

Does their intelligence level change because they are scared and panicked? Probably. Is that an excuse to be an idiot? No.

I'm sorry, if you pay 350k for a hyundai because your scared the price may go over that your simply an idiot.

No one pays $350k for a Hyundai. Why would you pay $350k for a car thats not worth $12k? Its a economy car built cheaply and meant to be sold cheaply. It also has a set price made by the manufacturer. However in this game, nothing has set prices so anyone can determine the price. Someone is not dumber for buying at a higher price. Yes, I find it very unsettling that someone would double the standard price, but people who have abundant amounts of gil tend to not care how much they spend if they can replace it easily.

Like I said, people don't think about what they do as effecting everyone else. They think solely of how it will effect them directly. When you buy next piece of rare armor do you think, can I get before it goes up more or before I can no longer afford it? Or would you be the type to say, I shouldn't raise the price further and hope everyone else is the same. If you want the item badly enough you are going to pay that little extra and thanks to you, the price just went up for the rest of the server...

Deflation? I honestly do not think a simple solution will do here. You need to not only reduce the amount of money in the system in such a way that people can accept it, but also change the minds of people so that they no longer feel the need to compete so heavily over items. The only real alternative is more items that I can see. SE introduced a few new rings into the game to compete with the Archer's Ring; however the price has yet to drop. The reason: Items like the Venerer's Rings do not provide equal stats to the sniper's and are rare (thus you can only have one) Items like Toreador's and Woodsman's Rings are just to rare to be worthwhile to compete. If people have competitive choices which have reasonable chance of dropping then prices might decrease. This is the reason people will not pay $350k for a Hyundai. Why would I when I can get a Toyota for $12k?

That requires patience, which is unsuprisingly absent in the general server population.

No one has patients in a game. Its a game so they came here for instant gratification and if that hurts you, I doubt they care very much. Its just the way things are and the way things will be.

 

[Darkdante]

No one pays $350k for a Hyundai. Why would you pay $350k for a car thats not worth $12k?

Exactly Lavi, Exactly. Thats what this whole thread is about. Its about stupid people that do just exactly that.

It also has a set price made by the manufacturer.

Have you ever bought a car in your life before? :lol: When you do, come back and tell me about it ok? How's about this you tell them your gonna pay 350k for that Hyundai and you tell me if they turn you down ok?

Like I said, people don't think about what they do as effecting everyone else. They think solely of how it will effect them directly.

Yes, Lavi thats why they are being called Idiots. Get it?

No one has patients in a game. Its a game so they came here for instant gratification and if that hurts you, I doubt they care very much. Its just the way things are and the way things will be.

Its not hurting me. But from all your previous missplaced complaining I know it very much hurts you. The only difference is that while this would work your method is simply complaining. And you are right again Lavi, They do not care. But they do care when the next time they try to bid on an item that some idiot jacked up, its just they are too stupid to realize that "they" are the very ones contributing to the problem. But thats what this whole post is about now isn't it?

Deflation? I honestly do not think a simple solution will do here.

Do you even understand the concept of Deflation? What is so simple about deflation? What we are saying is to make SMART BUYS. Can you have deflation without burning those that play legit? Can you have deflation when people buy gil faster than gil leaves the game?

Change the minds of people so that they no longer feel the need to compete so heavily over items.

Yes Lavi that is what is being said here. But you should emphasize competing idiotically.

The only real alternative is more items that I can see. SE introduced a few new rings into the game to compete with the Archer's Ring; however the price has yet to drop. The reason: Items like the Venerer's Rings do not provide equal stats to the sniper's and are rare (thus you can only have one) Items like Toreador's and Woodsman's Rings are just to rare to be worthwhile to compete.

No Lavi, its because you still have the same stupid people that you did then and you did now. What will happen when you introduce more items will be that having gil does not matter much anymore. If anybody can get any item they want being "uber" in this game has no meaning. It will turn into which job is better than the other. You turn FFXI into WOW. There having good gear doesn't matter much, is this what you want? To have a game where everybody is equal? I thought you play this game because you can be different. If you want difference then you will have economic issues that you must deal with.

If flaming people for bad gear can make people change flaming people that make stupid buys will make them change as well. However flaming somebody when they are making 2.5 million in profits wont do jack shit.

 

[Skaw]

I think Im one of the few people that has the capability but wont excersise it if I feel its not worth it... I save a lot of money this way.

I avoided Scorpion Harness my entire play through as Monk.

The way I saw it, why pay 3.5 million for only +5 more accuracy? Temple Cyclas was free(aside from the hours camping a beadeaux key.)

 

[Sneakypants]

Inflation sucks.

Especially when it doubles in just over a month. ><
:evil:

 

[Lavi]

No Lavi, its because you still have the same stupid people that you did then and you did now. What will happen when you introduce more items will be that having gil does not matter much anymore. If anybody can get any item they want being "uber" in this game has no meaning. It will turn into which job is better than the other. You turn FFXI into WOW. There having good gear doesn't matter much, is this what you want? To have a game where everybody is equal? I thought you play this game because you can be different. If you want difference then you will have economic issues that you must deal with.

Do you plan of getting AF? How is that any different? Its free, very little competition and everyone has it or can get it (provided they work for it). So FFXI must already be like WoW. You argue its a status symbol and yet you call the person an idiot when they spend a fortune on an item. Status symbols are not cheap. People don't buy Mercedez because its cheap, they buy it for the status symbol.

If you feel adding things to the game to make some competition and lower the price is stupid and ruins the game, go find another. You didn't quit the game when SE lowered the experience and people said it would make it easier like WoW, so why would you quit now?

When someone has a lot of gil they can and let me stress this part WILL spend it anyway they want, even if that means over paying by a fortune. Let me give you an example. Back when the economy was booming in California due to silicon valley and young energetic kids were earning money faster then they could spend it, these kids went out and bought themselves new cars. Now this is not surprising but when they went to the dealer, instead of paying the sticker price and waiting a few days for their new Porsche or Ferrari, they told the salesmen "Get me the car by the end of the day and I'll give you $20k." People with lots of money and little patience don't care about price. All they see is the item and they are willing to spend for it.

Flaming people calling them stupid for spending gil will not do anything. Its been done before and do you think it's stopped? Obviously not.

I never said inflation was simple. I said its not simple to fix. Its understood that people will be hurt by deflation but can you say constant inflation is any better? And please by all means explain to me deflation as I seem to not understand the concept (sarcasm if you couldn't tell).

Yes I have bought a car. No I don't offer more than what the sticker price says. No one does (barring the example I gave earlier). However you seem to think items have a set price. The car has a fixed value set by the manufacturer so that they can compete with competition, but the Astral Earrings don't. No where does SE, the server community or the NM that drops it tell you that you can sell it for X dollars. That means the buyer and seller are free to decide the price. If you feel there is something wrong with that you can do 2 things, get the item yourself or not buy it.

And if this doesn't bother you at all Dark why the hell are you even posting here? You have no reason if it doesn't bother you.

As far as the item is concerned, I think there is a lot better items you can get that would get more mp for less. There is no earring that will give you even half that however and that is part of the reason why its so expensive. The closest thing is Death Earrings which give 10 mp (I exclude the +1 since it gives +enmity which most mages would avoid). There is a noticeable price increase on items when the stats increase. Take computers for example. You can buy a cheap computer with 2GHz for less than 1k, a 3GHz for $2k and a 4Ghz computer for $10k. People still buy it because they want the extra boost in performance when they get the 4GHz even though many of them could live with the 3GHz. Are these people stupid for buying it so high? No. So why is anyone paying 5 mil for Astral Earrings dumb?

Note: These are all fake numbers but are there for a general idea. Haven't checked out computer prices and speeds a lot but the example fits.

 

[Darkdante]

Do you plan of getting AF? How is that any different? Its free, very little competition and everyone has it or can get it (provided they work for it). So FFXI must already be like WoW. You argue its a status symbol and yet you call the person an idiot when they spend a fortune on an item. Status symbols are not cheap. People don't buy Mercedez because its cheap, they buy it for the status symbol.

Lavi.... FFXI is different because we have gear worth millions, and people willing to pay for it. Can you buy AF? Is AF the best gear you can possibly get? You need to turn off the tunnel vision you seem to perpetually have on for a bit to see this little tidbit.

Lavi there is a middle ground to everything. You don't need to do everything in the extremes. If you see an earring going for 2.5 million in the price history will you keep paying more till you can see 5 million and 2.5 million on the same history screen?

Are you telling me that you simply do not UNDERSTAND this simple concept????

If you feel adding things to the game to make some competition and lower the price is stupid and ruins the game, go find another. You didn't quit the game when SE lowered the experience and people said it would make it easier like WoW, so why would you quit now?

Did I say I was gonna quit some place that I dont know about? Did I say your idea was stupid? I said:

If anybody can get any item they want being "uber" in this game has no meaning. It will turn into which job is better than the other. You turn FFXI into WOW. There having good gear doesn't matter much, is this what you want? To have a game where everybody is equal? I thought you play this game because you can be different.

When someone has a lot of gil they can and let me stress this part WILL spend it anyway they want, even if that means over paying by a fortune. Let me give you an example. Back when the economy was booming in California due to silicon valley and young energetic kids were earning money faster then they could spend it, these kids went out and bought themselves new cars. Now this is not surprising but when they went to the dealer, instead of paying the sticker price and waiting a few days for their new Porsche or Ferrari, they told the salesmen "Get me the car by the end of the day and I'll give you $20k." People with lots of money and little patience don't care about price. All they see is the item and they are willing to spend for it.

Yes Lavi thats why all those idiot dot commers are broke now complaining that thier IT jobs are being outsourced to India. Thats why during that time cars were so fucking expensive. Well it was to me anyway, I can afford cars comfortably now anywayz. For the money I pay I get alot of car today compared to those years. :? And I was dirt shit poor during that time.

Flaming people calling them stupid for spending gil will not do anything. Its been done before and do you think it's stopped? Obviously not.

It has not been done before Lavi. Not to the extent that people flame those with gimp gear anyway. Dig me up a thread in the past that has someone complaining about a "buyer" spending too much? I'm pretty sure you won't be able to do it.

Fact is people choose to blame the other side of the fence and don't want to take responsiblity for the economy themselves. Thus when they are "hurting" and have to farm and farm and farm for an item they stupidly flame the people selling the item for the price increase. When it's actually the stupid people farming and farming and farming giving in to those insane prices that are the ones actually raising it. If you don't like inflation don't pay inflated prices, and ostracize and flame to hell those that do.

I never said inflation was simple. I said its not simple to fix. Its understood that people will be hurt by deflation but can you say constant inflation is any better? And please by all means explain to me deflation as I seem to not understand the concept (sarcasm if you couldn't tell).

Deflation? I honestly do not think a simple solution will do here.

/what?

BTW: Yes Lavi I am against CONSTANT INFLATION, thats why I'm here, thats why i'm arguing. But YOU are arguing with me.

Yes I have bought a car. No I don't offer more than what the sticker price says. No one does (barring the example I gave earlier). However you seem to think items have a set price. The car has a fixed value set by the manufacturer so that they can compete with competition, but the Astral Earrings don't. No where does SE, the server community or the NM that drops it tell you that you can sell it for X dollars. That means the buyer and seller are free to decide the price. If you feel there is something wrong with that you can do 2 things, get the item yourself or not buy it.

Do you know what the sticker price stands for? Do you know what the invoice price is? Do you know that it makes a difference in the time that you buy the car and how long it's been on the lot? This information is your bargaining tools. And yes Lavi this means you NEVER offer more than the sticker price, if you do your as stupid as the IDIOTS we are talking about. What do you do? You offer less =P.

Most cars do not have a fixed price set by the manufacturer, and those manufacurer prices are the suggested price. They do not call this wheeling and dealing for nothing baby.

If you are talking about a Scion however.... this may be true. And yes when you buy a car the buyer and seller always decide the price. If you settle for the sticker price then your losing out on the first rule of buying a car. :?

And if this doesn't bother you at all Dark why the hell are you even posting here? You have no reason if it doesn't bother you.

Because I'm sick of hearing people bitch about it when THEY are the cause and are too blind to see it.

As far as the item is concerned, I think there is a lot better items you can get that would get more mp for less.

No but ya, you kinda get it here i guess. :? thats the whole reason for this post, see?

Take computers for example. You can buy a cheap computer with 2GHz for less than 1k, a 3GHz for $2k and a 4Ghz computer for $10k. People still buy it because they want the extra boost in performance when they get the 4GHz even though many of them could live with the 3GHz. Are these people stupid for buying it so high? No. So why is anyone paying 5 mil for Astral Earrings dumb?

haha HA!. I can't belive you used that example on ME. :twisted:

Yes Lavi, THEY ARE STUPID, they should be saving it for the next computer. Why? Because there are no programs out that USE the power of a 4gz(or equivalent of said example) computer as of yet. And in 6 months that very same proccessor will be 2 thousand or less, and programs will probably still not be able to use its full power even then. And yes Lavi your example was pretty much on the money in how insane the prices can be.

Yes there may be somepeople, that might actually use and need a 4gz processor, are they normal people, NO. Would they write something as stupid as that as advice? HELL NO!

U never buy the newest best proc out, you wait for it to mature, you wait to see if the industry will standardize on it, and you wait for the price to become reasonable.

So what about those earrings?