You don't have to cheat to be sucessfull at end game!!!

[Tomasello]

Each Weaponskill is only usable by certain jobs...

Wrong when talking about Heavy Swing, it is usable by all jobs except the ones not allowed to have a staff skill. Because we can't build a skill in it, SE gave us a defacto skill rating.

And you will still hit the mob occasionally at zero skill, because there is an accuracy floor as well as a ceiling. That's what my original post is about...

Yes this part is true I am not disagreeing with you.

 

[Marajade]

Wrong, when talking about Heavy Swing, it is usable by all jobs except the ones not allowed to have a staff skill. Because we can't build a skill in it, SE gave us a defacto skill rating.

No, Any job can get Heavy Swing. Its an All Jobs WS. If i sub WAR on RNG that has zero staff skill, i get about 4 Staff WS's because my staff skill is capped on 42 WHM. if i had no skill at all, i wouldnt get any WS.

Some WS are job specific, like Dancing Edge and Shark Bite are to Thief. I capped Dagger on RNG, but i didnt get those WS. even if i /THF.


Also, as far as i can tell, accuracy works exactly as it does in tabletop gaming. You roll a dice (likely a D20) and the add your accuracy to the roll, in order to beat your opponents evasion score. But, roll high enough (usualy a 20) and you automaticly hit, regardless of your accuracy or opponents evasion.

 

[Courtney]

No, Any job can get Heavy Swing. Its an All Jobs WS. If i sub WAR on RNG that has zero staff skill, i get about 4 Staff WS's because my staff skill is capped on 42 WHM. if i had no skill at all, i wouldnt get any WS.

That's not the way I understand it either though. I was pretty sure that there were 3 types of WSs...

Type A was usable by all jobs which naturally have the skill
Type B was usable by if your main or sub was the job that specialises in the weapon (ie MNK for hand to hand) (and your main still has the skill)
Type C was usable only if your main is the job that specialises in the weapon

...but I still don't think that not being able to use the weapon skill is the same as not using the listed skill value, and getting some secret value as a default. I could be wrong though, but give me a few and I should be able to test it...

 

[Marajade]

That's not the way I understand it either though. I was pretty sure that there were 3 types of WSs...

Type A was usable by all jobs which naturally have the skill
Type B was usable by if your main or sub was the job that specialises in the weapon (ie MNK for hand to hand) (and your main still has the skill)
Type C was usable only if your main is the job that specialises in the weapon

Thats basicly what i said, but Type A is usable by all jobs, even if they dont naturaly have the skill, like RNG using staff weaponskills by subbing WAR.

 

[Vilurum]

All WS's (well, except relic WS's) require that you get their required skill in some way or other, whether it be from main, from sub, or even in limited cases from +skill gear.

 

[Courtney]

OK, proof of my miserable staff skill... RDM/WHM with staff skill of 9 (from WHM sub)

With no gear at all my attack is 39

Add a treat staff and my attack is now 9 higher... 48

Now I guess that could be from a hidden value rather than from the 9 Staff Skill, so I'll try another weapon.

Another of my shames is that I have a L15 MNK (with 45 H2H Skill) RDM also has no native H2H Skill

With a staff I have 47 Attack (so my base attack is 38 )

With Cesti, I have 83 Attack. This time again 45 more attack with 45 skill.

(Oh and I can use H2H Weaponskills as a RDM/MNK as well)

It certainly looks like the subjob skill is the used (rather than a constant value) when the main job has no skill in a weapon, unless there's an explanation I haven't thought of...

 

[Rappa]

God, the topic changes in here more often than Michael Jackson's face.

 

[hellstorm]

I don't really buy that either, since accuracy doesn't work that way for physical skills, so I don't see how magic accuracy would be stronger than skill. Plus, if it really was better than skill, I wouldn't hear red mages talk about how worthless the wise set is all the time.

nah believe it closer to 1=1 but it go all skills not just one. Hence reason wise hat not better do to the fact af hat is 10 elemental magic. As for legs never like them either, 2ma acc don't seem that appealing. Only one that has any merit is body and may be hands and feet because the have opposite stats of there errant counter part. Least till you get yegit or af2. Also most the rse feet/hands beat them as well.

 

[Uzor]

We don't get skill ups or weapons skills. Rdms inherently don't get the skill but we can use the staff. Yes you see the skill from your /whm but it's not based on that. It's based on some arbatrary invisible skill number SE stuck us with. To be honest I'm not sure but I hit with a staff far too often then someone with a zero or nine skill could.


Edit: If I had to guess maybe E rating? It's definitly crappy.

No. we don't get an invisible skill. I've mentioned it many times before, and looks like I have to repeat it again.

All accuracy, magic and physical, are based on your level compared to mob level. As a lvl 75 with 0 skill in a weapon, youll still hit like 95% of the time against a level 30 mob.

To dumb it down, let's make a basic formula.

Accuracy = 20
your level = 75
mob level = 30

modifier = your level/mob level = 75/30 = 2.5

So if you have, let's say 20 accuracy, then you suddenly have 20 x 2,5 = 50 accuracy because of the difference in level.

The same thing goes for when a mob is above your level.

mob level = 85

which makes the accuracy:

20 x (75/85) = 17

Now, that's not the exact formula. It's a dumbed down version to prove a point. Physical damage (but not magic damage) works in a similar way. Only difference is that it also have a set reduction based on your current level not compared to mobs. Ranged attack didn't have this limitation before, which made it overpowered. But now it do.

1 m.acc ~= 2 skill

Chausable is better for elemental.

That's completely wrong. Magic Accuracy is NOWHERE NEAR as effective as skill.

And yes. You get all skills of your subjob. As 75WHM/RDM, I get something like 97 parry. So when I solo as WHM/RDM, I occasionally parry, even though WHM doesn't get a natural parry skill. You also get the non job-specific WS's that the subjob can use.

 

[Calv/Godofdeath]

So am I because at most, assuming 8/8 Merits, you would only have had 317...

You didn't have a Duelist Chapeau, Nashira Serawells, Altrustic Cape, or Master Caster Braceletts (which you admit your not from windy) and don't tell me your counting that stupid Thanatos Baselard which any fool knows staffs work far better.


And I have 342 Enfeebling Skill (not counting crappy Master Casters or Dagger) and I do enfeeble better then a blm or whm so get outta here with all that.

Lol... you think your all that? This was before Nashira Serawells and Altrustic Cape I'm talking bout. And you really need to just shut your fucking mouth about shit you don't know ass. I'm rank 10 in all 3 nations, and I do have a pair of Master Caster's Bracelts. And I use to have a Enfeebling Earring, used to be one of the very few RDMs with it. And that hat, was totallling 332. So before you open your damn mouth and insert your foot again, I hope you research you ass. And all I was saying is Ele knew she didn't have the highest back then.

 

[Uzor]

Well, Tomasello... Yes, your accuracy will be higher. But your potency won't be that much greater, so it depends what you mean with "better then a BLM or WHM".

I have AF2 hat, nashira and altruistic myself. I rarely enfeeble in it all though since stuff doesn't resist that much at all. Except for gods which just have a very high magic resistance either way.

 

[Courtney]

Lol... you think your all that? This was before Nashira Serawells and Altrustic Cape I'm talking bout. And you really need to just shut your fucking mouth about shit you don't know ass. I'm rank 10 in all 3 nations, and I do have a pair of Master Caster's Bracelts. And I use to have a Enfeebling Earring, used to be one of the very few RDMs with it. And that hat, was totallling 332. So before you open your damn mouth and insert your foot again, I hope you research you ass. And all I was saying is Ele knew she didn't have the highest back then.

Read his post again,

He was talking to Ellemire, and agreeing with you, lol.

 

[Tomasello]

Read his post again,

He was talking to Ellemire, and agreeing with you, lol.

Seriously, GoD what the fuck I agree with you and you rip into me? I did forget to take into account the elite beret. So ya she might of had 321 with full merits. But I'm sure at the time she didn't have full merits. Cause you were too busy bragging about how you did.

Baj hit it right on the head (as usual) you were a fucking side line mage. I never said I was all that cause I have 342 nor does it make me a good rdm just cause I have it. Just like having a Dalmatica doesn't make you a good rdm either.

Your just a bitter ass who quit NH just cause Maseki wouldn't put you in a sky god fight. You throw a girly tantrum, warped out, and dropped your pearl. Just because me, Dakko, and Ele with "less skill" were in the alliance. "Omg suck my dick I have 332 skill I should be in every fight."

You mean you had 332 skill 50% of the time. Master Casters are junk just see how much they help you in TAU. So is the Dagger which your sadly adding into your skill number. Ok then if you have 332 with your logic I now have 353 skill.... Wow I'm cool now.

Get over it dude, don't get mad at me.

 

[Tomasello]

Wrong, when talking about Heavy Swing, it is usable by all jobs except the ones not allowed to have a staff skill.

No, Any job can get Heavy Swing. Its an All Jobs WS.

Do you have any reading comprehesion skills at all? I just said that. RDMS DO NOT GET ANY STAFF WEAPONSKILLS REGARDLESS OF SUBJOB LEVEL. THIS IS A FACT. So don't reply when you don't know what your talking about I don't care about other jobs.


The only reason I can think of for my subjob not affecting staff skill theory, and I don't know if this is true because I haven't had the game for 4 years, is apparently we used to have a staff skill but SE took it away from us in some ancient patch for whatever reason. Again I don't know this to be true or not just what I heard.


If someone were willing to engage two mobs maybe colibri one as a rdm/thf (both jobs with no inherent job skill) and as a rdm/smn (with maxed out skill for a level 37 sub) making sure the Dex and accuracy stats was equal for both and see if there is a difference in the parsed results that would probably be the only way to know for sure.

 

[Tomasello]

Well, Tomasello... Yes, your accuracy will be higher. But your potency won't be that much greater, so it depends what you mean with "better then a BLM or WHM".

We're still better Uzor. We have Tier 2 enfeebles now. With the same INT or MND they are more potent.

 

[Ewok]

As a lvl 75 with 0 skill in a weapon, youll still hit like 95% of the time against a level 30 mob.

As a person who has had skills too low in both magic, and especially weapons (lolstaff and club on blm) I can definitely say this statement is an incredible exageration. You probably will hit the mob more then lower players at 0 skill, but it won't even be close to 95%.

 

[Uzor]

As a person who has had skills too low in both magic, and especially weapons (lolstaff and club on blm) I can definitely say this statement is an incredible exageration. You probably will hit the mob more then lower players at 0 skill, but it won't even be close to 95%.

Oh, you will Go outside Batallia Down and engage anything without a weapon with a job that don't have H2H skill. You'll hit almost every hit.

Do you have any reading comprehesion skills at all? I just said that. RDMS DO NOT GET ANY STAFF WEAPONSKILLS REGARDLESS OF SUBJOB LEVEL. THIS IS A FACT. So don't reply when you don't know what your talking about I don't care about other jobs.

This is a lie. You get any and all skills of your SJ. And you get all of their WS's, unless the WS is job-only (like Vorpal Blade or Swift Blade)

The only reason I can think of for my subjob not affecting staff skill theory, and I don't know if this is true because I haven't had the game for 4 years, is apparently we used to have a staff skill but SE took it away from us in some ancient patch for whatever reason. Again I don't know this to be true or not just what I heard.

No.

If someone were willing to engage two mobs maybe colibri one as a rdm/thf (both jobs with no inherent job skill) and as a rdm/smn (with maxed out skill for a level 37 sub) making sure the Dex and accuracy stats was equal for both and see if there is a difference in the parsed results that would probably be the only way to know for sure.

Yes. The RDM/SMN with caped staff will hit more. However, they won't hit a lot since the skill is only that of a 37 job. And since Colibri's are still easy prey at 75, the added accuracy won't be that great.

Seriously, dude. Try it out yourself. lvl MNK, and sub MNK, and you'll see that you will have weapon skills up to lvl 37 MNK when you go out without a weapon equipped.

 

[Calv/Godofdeath]

Seriously, GoD what the fuck I agree with you and you rip into me? I did forget to take into account the elite beret. So ya she might of had 321 with full merits. But I'm sure at the time she didn't have full merits. Cause you were too busy bragging about how you did.

Baj hit it right on the head (as usual) you were a fucking side line mage. I never said I was all that cause I have 342 nor does it make me a good rdm just cause I have it. Just like having a Dalmatica doesn't make you a good rdm either.

Your just a bitter ass who quit NH just cause Maseki wouldn't put you in a sky god fight. You throw a girly tantrum, warped out, and dropped your pearl. Just because me, Dakko, and Ele with "less skill" were in the alliance. "Omg suck my dick I have 332 skill I should be in every fight."

You mean you had 332 skill 50% of the time. Master Casters are junk just see how much they help you in TAU. So is the Dagger which your sadly adding into your skill number. Ok then if you have 332 with your logic I now have 353 skill.... Wow I'm cool now.

Get over it dude, don't get mad at me.

Lol you sound like your the bitter one. It is a shame to put someone who worked there ass off to be the best they can, and let gimps like you 'cause you sucked Masekis dick be in and gimp up the alliance. I didn't care if I wasn't in all, but none. Yea, so I left big deal? Guess that meant you couldn't fish during gods except Kirin where you were next in line for W Legs amirite?

'Cause theres a lot of HNMs in ToAU where I'll need that extra enfeebling magic right? Unlike you, running around in all enfeebling gear 24/7, I have equipment switch macros. So, I have my master casters around when it will help, and being back at Bastok finally, lolLastok, they'll be handy in most zones before ToAU.

Stop being bitter cause I left NH and made you do stuff and stop being a dick, 'cause I really don't care bout RDM anymore and it's not fully enfeebled out. Only hate me 'cause even with your 353 enfeebling magic skill you now have, I'll always be a better RDM then you.

 

[Tomasello]

No.

Like I said I didn't know if the patch thing was true. I'll try to find it online when I get home from work.

 

[Tomasello]

Lol you sound like your the bitter one. It is a shame to put someone who worked there ass off to be the best they can, and let gimps like you 'cause you sucked Masekis dick be in and gimp up the alliance. I didn't care if I wasn't in all, but none. Yea, so I left big deal? Guess that meant you couldn't fish during gods except Kirin where you were next in line for W Legs amirite?

'Cause theres a lot of HNMs in ToAU where I'll need that extra enfeebling magic right? Unlike you, running around in all enfeebling gear 24/7, I have equipment switch macros. So, I have my master casters around when it will help, and being back at Bastok finally, lolLastok, they'll be handy in most zones before ToAU.

Stop being bitter cause I left NH and made you do stuff and stop being a dick, 'cause I really don't care bout RDM anymore and it's not fully enfeebled out. Only hate me 'cause even with your 353 enfeebling magic skill you now have, I'll always be a better RDM then you.

Remind me why I'm bitter even though you ripped into me first for no reason?

A) Because I got W Legs before you?

B) Because YOU sat on the sidelines like a benchwarmer?

C) Because my enfeebling skill is higher then yours?

D) All of the Above?


Your pathetic....