Another Crappy RDM Topic

Kelyon said:
/sigh you making fun of me?
Click to expand...

no i just lol at your avatar when i see it so i have given you your own thing. its more of a compliment.
 
Kelyon said:
OHHHH yay *puts razors away* <3 da Garka types
Click to expand...

/wrists Kelyon for the hell of it.

This topic has gotten gay.
 
*just caught on* Vallion, you sully my name? GASP

Red Mages can melee if they can handle all their jobs at once, do not waste mp or die based on healing themselves from AoE, are not silenced for long periods of time, or have major healing duties. Other than that, rdm's were meant to melee with -en spells on, haste, and the best weapons and acc+ gear. To maximize spell potential in this form, they have to use /equip swaps on nearly every spell. A melee rdm, however, if mp consumption is monitored, can have limitless MP with convert. And it goes without saying that in a party setting they HAVE to be able to keep up the enhancing spells everyone relies on, with the convert timer and MP depletion rate all in mind. (order btw is RDM > Healer/SMN > BLM/BLU > PLD (would be second after rdm, but auto refresh takes care of it alot now) > DRK)

But yes, I warrent that if a rdm has major cure duties, or if it is a rdm's off day as far as mental awareness goes (maybe you caught me then), they shouldn't melee. And, if they do not appear to be mentally with it, please give a gentle reminder instead of taking your anger to the Flameboards, rather than the red mage who made you unhappy to begin with.

As stated though, the stats of a rdm give it the ability to do anything. It's skill in enfeebling is mostly to bring the enemy down to a level that it can deal with with its skills that are equal but well under the maximum for other jobs. They are adept at taking advantage of enemies in every which way, and helping themselves to stay in battle nearly limitlessly. Its skill in Sword and Dagger, and its ability to weild Excalibur and Mandau, are clear signs that these are weapons that can be and should be used by red mages everywhere, but at the cost of a very macro(or should I say micro)-intensive job.
 
Last edited:
Well that probably just gave this topic a few more pages of life ... I wasn't expecting the melee argument to pop here as well.

I'd write some better rebuttals but it's 2:30 AM and I'm sleepy. So just pretend I said in-depth stuff with lots of clear and good explanations, about being in aoe range, feeding the mob TP, being unable to rest, mage vs. melee gear (and inventory space), and player distraction.

And then pretend I went on to make a conclusion to the tune of "there's a time and a place where RDM melee does indeed shine, but it ain't an exp party".

I'll let more experienced RDMs, better debaters, and/or more awake people make the points in greater depth.
 
oliveman said:
*just caught on* Vallion, you sully my name? GASP

Red Mages can melee if they can handle all their jobs at once, do not waste mp or die based on healing themselves from AoE, are not silenced for long periods of time, or have major healing duties. Other than that, rdm's were meant to melee with -en spells on, haste, and the best weapons and acc+ gear. To maximize spell potential in this form, they have to use /equip swaps on nearly every spell. A melee rdm, however, if mp consumption is monitored, can have limitless MP with convert. And it goes without saying that in a party setting they HAVE to be able to keep up the enhancing spells everyone relies on, with the convert timer and MP depletion rate all in mind. (order btw is RDM > Healer/SMN > BLM/BLU > PLD (would be second after rdm, but auto refresh takes care of it alot now) > DRK)

But yes, I warrent that if a rdm has major cure duties, or if it is a rdm's off day as far as mental awareness goes (maybe you caught me then), they shouldn't melee. And, if they do not appear to be mentally with it, please give a gentle reminder instead of taking your anger to the Flameboards, rather than the red mage who made you unhappy to begin with.

As stated though, the stats of a rdm give it the ability to do anything. It's skill in enfeebling is mostly to bring the enemy down to a level that it can deal with with its skills that are equal but well under the maximum for other jobs. They are adept at taking advantage of enemies in every which way, and helping themselves to stay in battle nearly limitlessly. Its skill in Sword and Dagger, and its ability to weild Excalibur and Mandau, are clear signs that these are weapons that can be and should be used by red mages everywhere, but at the cost of a very macro(or should I say micro)-intensive job.
Click to expand...

As a RDM myself I have to say... this by far is the dumbest thing I ever heard.

If you are using any form of combat weapons buring a XP session then you are lacking on your mage duites in some form. With all the gear I use as RDM to keep up in cannon PT's I'd be amazed if I ever have more then 10tp at any given time not to mention the benefits of the elemental staves, But really this has all been covered before. Melee rdm might pass for ppl who are in a rush to level and take any dumb RDM they can find, but I hope the smart ppl here will pass you up if they see you seeking.
 
I entirely agree with Darklion, not to mention that
1. RDMs melee just as well as BRDs...actually, they don't have access to songs that can give them massive att/acc boosts as well as more speed. So they're pretty much worse melee than BRDs. And I don't see any melee BRDs, so...well...yeah.

2. Most all mobs in the endgame cannons have AOEs that are incredibly mage-unfriendly. By even being in melee range you're potentially eating a Silencega, AOE knockback or other hazards that will nomatter what, slow down your progress. And pre-endgame there's the whole thing regarding RDM not doing enough damage for their TP given to be worth it. PLD get away with it since, you know, they're tanks. (abridging this explanation since you can use the search function and probably see this exact same arguement show up at least fifty times before me.)
 
Mishaela said:
I entirely agree with Darklion, not to mention that
1. RDMs melee just as well as BRDs...actually, they don't have access to songs that can give them massive att/acc boosts as well as more speed. So they're pretty much worse melee than BRDs. And I don't see any melee BRDs, so...well...yeah.
Click to expand...

RDMs have quite a bit of more skill then BRDs in Dagger and Sword. Allowing us to hit harder and much more then Brd even with songs. All depending on gear ofcourse, But I still don't think they should be hittin anything during XP fights.
 
Darklion said:
RDMs have quite a bit of more skill then BRDs in Dagger and Sword. Allowing us to hit harder and much more then Brd even with songs. All depending on gear ofcourse, But I still don't think they should be hittin anything during XP fights.
Click to expand...

Ah, thanks for the correction. Though I do think BRD's songs would give them more of an edge over RDM's haste/enspells...but sortof a meh point, neither should really ever be meleeing in parties. =P
 
Mishaela said:
but sortof a meh point, neither should really ever be meleeing in parties. =P
Click to expand...

Yes we can agree to that. :biggrin:
 
jamal said:
I can call what mobs you will lose your chain on with that setup. The THF and MNK/NIN mobs have high evasion, and with 3 melee you're asking to lose your chain...I've seen it happen with 3 elite melee. If you're only gonna use 3 melee, then use 2 brds, don't have 2 healers.
I said both jobs CAN do it, its just easier for WHM...RDMs that are with my cannons run out of mp MUCH more often then WHMs.
I already said hell that Divine Veil is a 10 minute recast, but it saves chains. You're fighting wyverns and paralyze hits everyone @75% HP, you're SoL. A WHM also enables BRDs to sub rdm, which cuts their cast time even more.
Having 2 Healers in a party will NEVER enable quicker kills then another melee, how can you argue that?
Also, as Uzor pointed out earlier, don't forget the Buffs that WHM gives are much more mp efficient AND stronger then a RDMs buffs. If you don't know why this would matter, then don't argue anymore. I know RDM CAN land PRO/SHELL IV on everyone, but the mp spent on it while keeping up with other buffs and cures drains MP quickly...
RDM CAN'T SUB BLM, RDM CAN'T SUB BLM. RDM CAN'T SUB BLM. Read my posts please. When you're spam casting spells, Conserve MP is HUGE.
Cure V is NEVER overkill, read when I said to use it. You fight a BLM mob that opens up Diaga II before silence hits (since you debuff the mobs), then rushing drubs 10 seconds later...you're gonna need a Big cure. A THF mob triple attacks, then does the dancing edge type move right afterwards...LIKE I SAID...2x's Cure IV is a loss of mp and time you could be resting. A WHM resting ISN'T a waste of time, its good play...Resting 1 tick here and there to keep your MP up isn't a waste by any means, I'm not saying full heal when I say "rest"...
Will, it wasn't a bash on you, you've admitted how hard you have to work to keep up sometimes, rappa doesn't and rarely drops below 600 mp lol ;;
Please, read the posts in their entirety, I'm tired of explaining things like you're a kindergartener (edit: I meant this to Hellstorm not you will lol)
Click to expand...
first off thf mobs there this little spell I like to call gravity it allow you to eva down mobs. Secondly with whm in a party with a rdm this allow rdm to help brd sleep adds with sleepga if /blm or help whm cure when freak accidents happen. Protect/shell who need them it not like the melee get hit much anyway with the shadow fad, unless you have a careless warrior or a over zelish mnk. Whm has to manage there mp at all times and if they run out mp there in touble party has slow down, rdm only concern is keeping mp manage for 10 min once that 10 min is up he converts and clock starts agian, we also have this nice little techneque call fast cast which make paralyna near instant cast can have it of the entire group in about 3-4 sec longer then it would take divine veil. sub blm, sub blm, sub blm agian this is the handy thing about the 10 min window we dont need conserve, but my magnetic earring also is nice in these cases. For same reason a whm dont drop below 600 mp is same reason a rdm make it 10 min window with ease with time to spare most the time. Might I add this is with having less then 1k mp, but my rdm/whm can get over 1k mp easy and I have not even caped mp yet. Heck most rdm dont even try wear mp gear in merit parties why because it not needed.
 
Mishaela said:
I entirely agree with Darklion, not to mention that
1. RDMs melee just as well as BRDs...actually, they don't have access to songs that can give them massive att/acc boosts as well as more speed. So they're pretty much worse melee than BRDs. And I don't see any melee BRDs, so...well...yeah.

2. Most all mobs in the endgame cannons have AOEs that are incredibly mage-unfriendly. By even being in melee range you're potentially eating a Silencega, AOE knockback or other hazards that will nomatter what, slow down your progress. And pre-endgame there's the whole thing regarding RDM not doing enough damage for their TP given to be worth it. PLD get away with it since, you know, they're tanks. (abridging this explanation since you can use the search function and probably see this exact same arguement show up at least fifty times before me.)
Click to expand...
Did you know on other servers rdm are actually used as tanks in alot situations. Now I myself have not melee in party since about 60, but there is alot gear out there like pahluwan set which can rdm melee a visible option. There no way that rdm could can compete with other dd and in no way could they be main healer, but they could take spot of a stunner as /drk and be able enfeb, refresh back up cure. It would be similar as to having a blu in the party.

**Although to me it would seem be alot work and expensive gear in order pull it off**
so id advise against meleeing in parties, but would say there nothing wrong with it if the right situation arises.
 
Last edited:
hellstorm said:
first off thf mobs there this little spell I like to call gravity it allow you to eva down mobs. Secondly with whm in a party with a rdm this allow rdm to help brd sleep adds with sleepga if /blm or help whm cure when freak accidents happen. Protect/shell who need them it not like the melee get hit much anyway with the shadow fad, unless you have a careless warrior or a over zelish mnk. Whm has to manage there mp at all times and if they run out mp there in touble party has slow down, rdm only concern is keeping mp manage for 10 min once that 10 min is up he converts and clock starts agian, we also have this nice little techneque call fast cast which make paralyna near instant cast can have it of the entire group in about 3-4 sec longer then it would take divine veil. sub blm, sub blm, sub blm agian this is the handy thing about the 10 min window we dont need conserve, but my magnetic earring also is nice in these cases. For same reason a whm dont drop below 600 mp is same reason a rdm make it 10 min window with ease with time to spare most the time. Might I add this is with having less then 1k mp, but my rdm/whm can get over 1k mp easy and I have not even caped mp yet. Heck most rdm dont even try wear mp gear in merit parties why because it not needed.
Click to expand...
Breaking it down further, christ:
Goal #1 -- Keep chain alive. Gravity isn't going to lower the evasion of a mob that drastically that will make up for ANOTHER melee in the party. Gravity has a high recast time, if you're killing efficiently you're not gonna have it ready for consecutive MNK/NIN and THF type mobs...
Goal #2 -- Killing mobs ASAP. To get max exp/hour, not only do you have to keep the chain alive, you also have to kill the mobs ASAP. With puks you could use your pt and kill mobs very quickly. With higher hp mamools, Gravity and Dia 3 is NOT going to make up for another 800+ points of damage per fight (assuming that the 4th melee is even a piss poor one).

PT kills mob faster = More EXP per hour AND faster repops.

A couple of questions (you can lie on the answers, I'm sure you will):

In the North Mamool Camp, how far to the south do you go before you have to turn around because mobs have repopped in the small path to the north?

Also in this camp, when you return from killing the 3 Mamools + 2 puks that appear on the path and the small opening near the zone, how many mobs are up in the southern opening?

In response to the shadows issue, yes they will take damage. Its a TP-Burn party, so how could anyone be a "Careless Warrior" or an "Over-zealous" MNK. Besides WSing with 500hp left and no shadows, I have no idea how you could be careless in a TP-burn.
Again, you're just arguing to argue, and not reading my entire posts. RDM 'CAN' make it work, but WHM is more efficient because of what I said.

Freak accidents like too many links DO NOT HAPPEN after the first pull if you're killing fast enough. You're admitting how slow you kill if you are justifying using another mage JUST incase it happens. If it is happening, then gtfo of the North camp, and go party in mire with the rest of the people that shouldn't be wasting that camp.
 
If you're smart as a RDM, a link isn't bad.

Hell, even a NIN one isn't bad. You can just banishga and then sleep it.

And if there's 3 mobs, you can haste yourself, then Sleep 1 mob, Sleep II another, and bind the third. Its really not that hard. But most of the time in a TP burn, even the bad ones, you won't EVER get more then 2 links. And hell, the BRD can sleep shit too.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top