/breaklinkshell

[Caerloc]

pay points*

 

[mdkuser]

If you just log on to cast lots on your items , even though you have the points, then it is no different than saying your LS members are slaves here to spend their gil, time, to reward just one person. That's unfair, everyone's subject to the same rules, no show= no cast lots. Those things arent very strange to celvantes anyway, thats how he got his Fort. torque and N.bdoy.

 

[Tomasello]

If you had to pay foints for it i certanly think he should have the right. Points are currency you already earned. A measure of how much you contributed to the group. If you have more points, you contributed more, no matter how many times you were late.

If you dont pay points for af1+1, then no, he shouldnt get to lot.

But if you dont want people who come late and miss runs to get tiems, then dont use a point system. I personally dont agree with point system in general, but if you use em, then you need to let people use their points.

He has a valid point. If Khajit had 100 more points then the next runner up then I agree he earned the right to lot even if he was late. He showed up to all those other runs other people didn't and that should count for something.

I do agree, however, them being on equal or lessor terms then yes he should not have been able to lot at all and that's what it sounds like in this case.

 

[Ewok]

If you had to pay foints for it i certanly think he should have the right. Points are currency you already earned. A measure of how much you contributed to the group. If you have more points, you contributed more, no matter how many times you were late.

If you dont pay points for af1+1, then no, he shouldnt get to lot.

But if you dont want people who come late and miss runs to get tiems, then dont use a point system. I personally dont agree with point system in general, but if you use em, then you need to let people use their points.

I would agree with you if he was like 10-15 minutes late, which my shell would already consider excessive. But 1 hour late? If he was going as THF, then they really didn't need him. But what if he had been a BLM, or RDM? What if he held people up, causing some to have to leave because they had other plans that couldn't be broken? There has to be a system in place to discourage people from being late, regardless of attendance points, to avoid that very kind of situation. It's no different then if you worked at a job for 15 years, in a position that you were needed in, then showed up late on the day a corporate exec was visiting (that you knew about), causing problems with shipping, customer orders, etc. You may not get fired, but you sure as hell will get bitched at afterwards (in this case, wasn't booted from shell, but was denied lotting rights). If you allow one person to be late and still lot, you are allowing everyone to be, and at that point, the scheduled time will all but disappear.

And, if not a point system, then what sort of system would you suggest to keep everything fair (keep in mind some of their problems stemmed from a "reserve list")?

 

[Hach]

No problem Arez, all good. I think this flameboard is being digress alot. <,<

 

[Caerloc]

If you just log on to cast lots on your items , even though you have the points, then it is no different than saying your LS members are slaves here to spend their gil, time, to reward just one person. That's unfair, everyone's subject to the same rules, no show= no cast lots. Those things arent very strange to celvantes anyway, thats how he got his Fort. torque and N.bdoy.

Why is it unfair? If someone has 100 more points then someone else, it means THEY where there 100 more hours (or however you give points) more then any other. So even if you are late you still spent more time in total in gaining said items. How is that a system that makes slaves out of members? It's a sytem that rewards the person who works the most. Plain and simple. Everyone's subject to the same rule, have the points, get your items. Now if there was tampering with the points and someone was getting points they didnt earn, id understand, but if he's earned all those points your just talking a load of crap.

If hi's tardiness becomes a problem you simply just get rid of him. You dont tell him to keep comming (even if is late) and then say he cant use his points. Thats a system that makes a slave out of him.

 

[Caerloc]

I would agree with you if he was like 10-15 minutes late, which my shell would already consider excessive. But 1 hour late? If he was going as THF, then they really didn't need him. But what if he had been a BLM, or RDM? What if he held people up, causing some to have to leave because they had other plans that couldn't be broken? There has to be a system in place to discourage people from being late, regardless of attendance points, to avoid that very kind of situation. It's no different then if you worked at a job for 15 years, in a position that you were needed in, then showed up late on the day a corporate exec was visiting (that you knew about), causing problems with shipping, customer orders, etc. You may not get fired, but you sure as hell will get bitched at afterwards (in this case, wasn't booted from shell, but was denied lotting rights). If you allow one person to be late and still lot, you are allowing everyone to be, and at that point, the scheduled time will all but disappear.

And, if not a point system, then what sort of system would you suggest to keep everything fair (keep in mind some of their problems stemmed from a "reserve list")?

Correct me if im wrong, but dont you already get a penalty for being late? A point deduction? The way i see it, if you wanna compare to real life, is that if i'm late for something, my boss wont pay me for the time im not there. He wont let me work and
just say he's gonna keep ALL my money. That's what you are doing when you dont let him spend points.

There is no perfect system. They will always be flawed in some way or another. But i prefer to have leaders i trust and simply let them decide. Doesnt work for everyone, and surely doesnt work in shells where you dont trust your leaders.

But personally i would stay away from a point-system best i can.

 

[Celvantes]

Replying to page 4:

I wasn't in BK for long, only about 2 months infact, so I can't really comment on a lot of what's been said because I wasn't around to see it. However when you made the thread about the new AF+1 lotting rule, the bottom line (literal, not figurative) was "I'll be using this rule on Wednesday" (our next run, the thread was posted on a Sunday i believe).

There was several negative replies to the thread, that you had no idea about when wednesdays run came about so you clearly had not checked the thread since posting it. How is it a discussion when you declare what will be happening and then ignore any response? Once people voiced there concern in /l chat on the run you agreed to postpone implementing it, that much is true. But the fact is you blindly threw out this "new idea" with no discussion prior, in /l or with the other leaders and just expected people to like it, you seemed genuinely shocked when people objected before the run.

You're right, the bottom line did say that, and that was the result of me writing it very early in the morning. I had meant to say 'if its agreeable, then we'll implement it Wednesday.' The end result, however, was that I never did implement it, especially after the discussion.

The reason I seemed shocked was because the people I brought it up to on Sunday after the run (a lot had already left /ls) were generally enthusiastic. Arez even said he thought it was alright, at first. That's why I was kind of taken aback by the negative response later.

However, the end result is that nothing was changed, regardless of what was discussed. Yet, I'm being raked over the coals for changing rules at a whim, when in fact nothing was every changed.

As far as the Omega/Khajit decision went last week, it's all well and good to say now "I had no intention of letting him lot", but look at it from everyone elses perspective. Khajit arrives over an hour late and asks to lot the body, you immediately say "get to apollyon and then I'll decide", I understand you say you were trying to avoid the distraction but Khajit wasn't in the alliance how hard would it have been to say "/p He wont be lotting but everyone needs to stay focused" or something similar? As it turns out the body didn't drop so you never had to make the decision but all anyone in the shell saw was you telling Khajit to get into position to lot it.

Point. I clearly see, now, how everything looked. But I didn't then.

And in hindsight, like I've said before, I should have just stopped everything after the run and clarified what was going on. However, because Khaj never ended up coming, I thought the matter was closed. Had a single person asked the question, after the run was finished, I would have answered with what I've said in this thread.

However, no one deigned it necessary to ask, and instead just decided to jump ship on the shell.

At the end of the day this argument could go on and on, but the fact that over 50% of the people present were willing to drop BK and join a new shell after a single /t should tell you that a lot of them were unhappy long before any of this.

And that's their decision to make, however, any leader, be it in FFXI or in real life, cannot make changes if a problem isn't brought to him. Good leaders can sense problems, and while I did my best to do so over my time leading BK, sometimes things are invisible unless they are brought forward.

Sorry to see that happen Celv. Sadly I was less than happy to see certain people invited in that shell, ultimately the same people who are the reason you were *unable* to join the new shell. You're a great tank and a good person, don't let it get you down.

Thanks, Mire. I hope your new shell is doing well. By all accounts, I've heard it is.

I remember complaining in PT chats when you clearly said in LS you would let him lot on armor, that he earned his point etc... Keep in mind that was at a point where I had been 7 months in LS and still didn't get anything. So this justifies him loting over all 18 members that made the effort to log on time and spent 30k gil+60 minute of their time killing the NM. And the reason hach was late was because he forgot to wake up. Everyone forgot this incident now cause said items didn't drop

Says you. I remember in the case of Hach, I checked with the top Nashira tier folks, and they were fine with letting him in. Regardless of the reason, it was deigned good enough for them.

Here's the reason why you spent 7 months in the shell without getting anything:

THE PEOPLE ABOVE YOU HAD MORE TIER POINTS. Why? BECAUSE THEY HAD BEEN IN THE SHELL LONGER.

You read the tier system rules when you joined. If you didn't like it, you didn't have to stay. You chose to spend those months with us, and right before this all happened, you were 2nd in line for pretty much everything.

As I've said many times before. I was not going to allow Khajit to lot. I'm not explaining the details again. It is a foul for you to complain about not getting any drops, when the tier system was followed and the *only* reason you didn't get anything was because you weren't at the top. It wasn't me being unfair to you, and yet you paint it that way.

And you still don't see how unfair this is? So basically, people on top of the Homam/nashira list, after getting priority on every single boss drop without spending any point, because as I posted earlier, boss drops cost absolutly nothing, would ALSO be given priority to AF mats ...

Does it matter now? The rule was never implemented, and I wouldn't have forced it if the shell didn't want it. So I came up with a bad idea, is that such a horrible thing that you turn around and break up the shell over it?

I see how you justify the reserved list, which is probably the main reason people have been unhappy imo. I can understand your reasonning man, but hell, if the shell you had before was crap, break it , make new rules fair to everyone, but don't make "Leader gets everything first" kind of rules you see in those shells with greedy leaders. All we saw is that your old LS had bad leadership and unfair rules, so you decide to take it over and... make rules just as unfair...

No, that's YOUR solution to things, and that right there is the crux of the problem. The shell we had before WASN'T crap, and every original member of BigKahunas would agree. The problem was that Quieren quit the game, and the people in the shell wanted to continue.

The rules weren't 'leaders get everything first.' Except for myself and Greg, no one else on the list was a leader, and guess what? Save Homam hands... we weren't first for anything. Mirewin/Otak, Kougaiji, and Apu were. Why?

BECAUSE THEY WERE IN THE SHELL BEFORE WE WERE.

And did I make rules that were just as unfair? The shell didn't seem to think so. As soon as we got off of the reserved list, which was damned fast I might add, everything was on a 100% tier based system. Your attendence earned you the lot to right.

Finally - YOU READ THE RULES WHEN YOU JOINED. I didn't force you to stay. If you didn't like the way things worked, you could have left at any time.

Also you keep saying that people on top of both list were those that worked the most. It's just not true. As I pointed out earlier it was damned impossible to progress on the list, unless someone misses a lot of run. If a homam piece costed like 50+ points , then yes, that'd be a fair system. And 50 point isn't exagerated, I mean, you earn 15 pt just for farming chips+ killing the boss. And there is like 10 people waiting on a queue for an item... Even 100 points per item isn't exagerated. 5 point is just ridiculous...

I sent that system up in October of 2008. It existed before you joined and has served the shell since I took over. If you didn't like it, you didn't have to join our shell.

Again, not me attempting to screw someone over.

 

[Celvantes]

Replying to page 5:

I will also correct some of you in various issues. At the point in time that we were doing Omega, Mdk and Khajit were level on points at the top of that tier. the only difference between the two was one turned up on time, tanked the mob, did their work. The other did nothing and if there was no other difference between them, that will always be enough for me.

According to the latest attendance post, Khaj was on top. If they were tied, and one was late, the other would have pulled ahead when it came time to lot, however, that is not the issue at question.

The bottom line is that you accused me of attempting to 'steal' Mdk's drop when in fact I was doing no such thing, and in the end, no such thing happened (couldn't have, because it didn't even drop from Omega). Who happened to be on top that particular day doesn't matter one iota. The point is that you tore our shell literally in two for something I never did.

At the point in time Gregedor obtained the Nashira manteel and seraweels, he was 3rd and 4th place on the Nashira tier respectively. He did not have enough attendance points to obtain either item from anyone above, who all needed those items. Your own "reserved list" rule made sure he got those items without having had to do the work necessary. Three of the people on that list above Gregedor had been in the ls for less time than he, and had accumulated points over him for simply having attended runs. This is just one such example.

The reserve list existed, as I posted before, for a very good reason. It existed before you even joined the shell, and if you didn't like it... nothing was making you stay. I asked you to stay, after the problems with Cookamungas and the run balancing fiasco, becase you were a damned fine player and a capable leader, but you didn't have to.

If you didn't like the reserve list, which was explained in black-and-white on our rule thread, you could have left after your first run.

Sunday (yesterday) I decided to make the change of linkshell. I'm sure you're really trying your best to be civil, but if you think that I have had the time to speak to all 22 other members of the ls then you're mistaken. I no longer possessed the BK pearl, and you and I spoke as soon as I'd logged in, minus the 10 mins I was afk. I left it to you to tell the rest of the ls my offer of them joining us while keeping their attendance points etc. I'm sure this was an unspoken agreement between us, because that's what you did, and I duly waited for you to speak to them, as you'd asked. A few replied to me.

No, you didn't 'make a change', you grabbed 1/2 our membership and formed a new shell. Dress it up how you like, you destroyed something that was working fine, due to grievances that could have been addressed with a single question and a single answer.

As regards "assigning boss drops". No, just shut the fuck up. The attendance spreadsheet was available for everyone to see, this has been made clear a million times before. I read out names from the top to the bottom of that posted sheet. I wasn't present on every boss run, because if you were honest you'd say we split nearly every run we've been on, including boss fights. I gave up my place in the Omega fights to anyone on the tier so that they could obtain items should the chance befall them. The list of who was to obtain what, was as I'm repeating again, available for anyone to call out, and had no possibility of input or interpretation for change from anyone, leader or otherwise.

By assigning boss drops, I meant that you were the one who read off who was at the top of the attendence tier, and thus who was entitled to the drop. I never implied that you were doing something illicit, rather, I was responding to your accusation about me.

You have stated that it was my rules that unfairly gave drops to some people and not to others. I was merely pointing out that I didn't give a single drop to anyone... the tier system I established on day one, based on attendence, dictated who got what, and for the past four months, you've been the one executing that system.

You could have changed that whole system any time you wanted to while I was gone. I said as much before I left. But, you followed it, designating who got what in the dozens of boss runs while I was gone.

I was only saying that it's extremely dishonest of you to say that I was cheating people, when you've been the one executing my tier system, without change, since September.

Still to this day, you believe being an Ls holder accords you some right to do whatever the fuck you want.

No, but it does give me the power to create the rules of the shell as I see fit. Rules which, by the way, you agreed to when you joined.

The fact that you think it's ok for someone to be over an hour late to Limbus, have the same points as another, and not contributed to the run (Khajit had also missed 2 of the farming runs for that Omega set) in any way whatsoever, compared to the other having been on time, done their share of the work, yet still have the rights to lot tells me everything I need to know about you.

As I have said a dozen times in this thread, I did not think it was OK, and I was not going to let him lot. All of what you have said is an assumption on your part that you never bothered to clarify with me.

There wasn't a rule written anywhere about people Ninja lotting items or stealing of any kind.

Why should there have to be?

Being at the top of the tier doesn't give you carte blanche to skip runs, skip boss fights, but only turn up at the very end and expect to be invited in to lot the drops. It's clear that you and I differ on this viewpoint, but one of us is right and fair, the other is not.

Again, I didn't think it was fair either. If you bothered to read my original post, you would have seen how I felt about Khajit pulling what he pulled.

Bottom line: I wasn't going to let him lot. But because you assumed that I was going to bring him in and have him take "mdk's" drop without ever asking me. Because of this assumption, you destroyed the shell, and with it, took a major shot at my reputation, which is the entire reason this thread exists.

As Celv and a few other people mentioned, the reserve list was used to transition the shell into a point system from what had previous to Celv's leadership a system of the leader just deciding who got what.
It was everyone's best attempt at moving from one system to another without screwing people who had been next in line for a piece of gear.

I know that I haven't played in a while but I can say that Celv was always a nice person and in my experience, a good leader. I think that this is probably something that could have been discussed within the shell and resolved. Instead, it sounds like a faction ( or clique) in BK did not like losing control of the shell after Celv got back and found an excuse to make their own shell to keep that control.

Sorry that this happened Celv, I don't think that you deserved it and I think it was a chickenshit way for them to do this. The fact they couldn't even be bothered to discuss their issues on the BK board first shows that they didn't even want to give you the opportunity to explain. Good luck and I hope you find a better class of players to run with.

Thanks Kero, we certainly missed you, Otak and the rest of the original BLM crew.

 

[Celvantes]

Page 6/7/8

At some point a portion of this board is going to have to focus on some of the things being said. I've read through this a few times and some of you are clearly commenting without having any clue of what went on, despite evidence to the contrary.

Nobody had power when I ran the shell, the last 6 months.

Everyone was treated fairly. Everyone want uniformly subject to the same rules. Nobody had any right to change anything. Every decision was made with the entire group's consent. This is why nothing changed.

Alright... and how is that different than what I did?

The system you used to pass out drops was the same system I designed. So how is it that you were treating people fairly and I wasn't?

Run selection was done the same way I did it... i.e. filling out sets as they were made.

The bad things you say I did, changing rules and runs, never actually happened:

I wanted to do something fun for a change (the metal chip run), but we ended up not doing it when people complained.

I suggested a new rule, but I never implemented it.

So where exactly is this unfair, heavy handed abuse of power that you say I did?


Again, Are, you made assumptions about to very minor events, and decided to nuke the shell over it. Congratulations, you've got your own group, and I don't mind that. I do mind you calling me a shitty leader when I busted tail for over a year for the sake of BK.

Did you read this thread and did you understand how he manipluates the rules to his advantage, and how he abuses the time of 20+ ls members to reward him and his own friends? Also the small clique is actually 2/3 of the LS...

Um... where is the rule manipulation? I set the rules long before you even joined, and I only added to them once when some people on the reserved list weren't showing up.

How exactly were myself and my own friends rewarded? The people who were rewarded were the members of the shell that had been there the longest.

I'll remind you that while you may have had months in the shell, the people above you on the Homam tier could count their time in years.



Raesvelg, Ewok, I thank you guys for your support.

I was in the shell for that wednesday when we were told that khajit was to come to the zone "in case" he could lot. I also was in FallofOdin. When the members of FoO were informed of the "special" list well over half quit. At the top of the list was Arthur and Celv. A. body and Odins valhalla. No one was aware of these promises prior to the announcement, which did not come from Doth. So the average player saw new leaders placing themselves at the top no matter the points of others. When members stated in the LS they did not like this, they were not given any choice. "but Doth promised" was all we got. There was no real discusion, it was simply how it would be done. The next run well over half of the ls just failed to come. Doth's promises had nothing to do with the members. We did not agree to it, yet we were expected to get them their odin drop. In return they would not lot any of the other abj. Last check Odin droppped items a lot more often than the tier bosses. I do events for fun, so I stayed. Eventually the shell broke because we could never get more than 22 people to show up.

I've said it before, the FoO thing was a fiasco. In my defense, I literally had the shell dropped in my/Lyrai/Arthur's lap one fine Sunday morning with no warning.

That reserve list was a dumb idea. I'll admit it. That said, given that Doth had straight up enticed people to come to the shell with promises of being first on a specific drop kind of backed us into a wall. In hindsight, we should have just started over, but, hindsight is 20/20.

That being said, FoO has exactly jack squat to do with BK. The reserved list was formed for a different reason (the previous shell had fucntioned since Limbus' release on such a system), and it was ended as soon as possible.

I never knew of the reserved list in BK. Mind you I joined while Celv was deployed. I never even bothered reading the forums as no one told me the password to get in. So while farming chips we get told about these +1 lot ideas. Only one person in the LS liked it. I don't even do limbus for the +1. I think I have lotted on only 1 material because I had the other half drop to me. MIND YOU when Celv started about the idea it was stated something he wanted to start on wednesday. There was no lsleader meeting or an after run meeting with the LS to talk about this. It was smack in the middle of a triple farming run. So distracting the LS obviously was not a major concern.

You needed to browse the shell forum more often. The idea was pitched at the *end* of a run, posted on the forum and discussed *prior* to the next run. We may have discussed it during, but when we did, as I recall, it was during lull points during the run (as I remember it, when two groups were already outside).

Then the run with omega. The run was going very well. We waited for some late people, then went to kill us Omega. During the run Khajit gets on and asks if he can come lot the body. Celv says come to zone. NOTHING about thinking about it. I spoke up and said he is not here and should not get to lot. If I missed a run I would not expect to lot. Others spoke up as well. Then Celv said come to zone and I will let you know if you can lot. <paraphrased> To me it was come and lot by his inital response to khajit. Then to appease the rest he said "in case". Who gives a damn if Khajit throws a fit because he missed his drop. It would have served him a lesson to be on time.

I direct you to my original post. Every issue you raise here has been addressed by me already.

I understand why you have your perspective, but in the end, it is still wrong. Had you asked me about it, I could have clarified what was going on. But no, the next thing I hear from you is 'I'm quitting the shell' on Sunday.

As a leader you can not please everyone. I have been in shells that have had "good old boy" systems. I left them. I did speak to Celv. I went on the shell and told him why I was leaving. I spoke to him in /tell after and listened to his explinations, and I felt the reasons he was giving was bullshit. It was ass covering. Hell he had people gathering for a boss run we did not even have chips for.

We did when the chip holder logged in.

He had a chance that wednesday to speak up and correct his mistake. He had all the way until sunday to put something on the forums, but he did not. I had decieded to leave the shell wednesday. I only wanted to tell the LS why I was leaving as I hate it when leaders hide the fact someone left.

Again, I would have gladly said something had I thought it was an issue. But since Khaj never showed up, and not a single person EVER said anything post-run, I didn't feel the need.

This has nothing to do with Celv as a person, but everything to do with his actions as a leader. Leaders are held to the highest standards. It is important that they follow the rules and ethics of systems we use. The followers take lead from you. So when the leader does not give a shit, the followers then carry the same attitude.

Believe me, I know. In real life, I'm a military officer. And while leaders are held to a higher standard, they are not omnicient or infallible and shouldn't be expected to be so. When they make mistakes, good subordinates support their leader by raising questions and/or pointing out things he or she may not see.

Did I make mistakes? Yeah, but in my eyes, they were pretty damned minor ones:

I put a run in /lsmes without running it by the shell.
I put up a suggested rule change that no one liked.
I told Khajit to come down to zone in an effort to forestall an argument in shell during a boss run.

These mistakes could have been easily rectified had someone just asked a simple question. The first two were dealth with and never once impacted the shell. The final one ended up destroying it.

Rather than use that group and fix the errors in the system to make a better shell, he broke it and moaned here.

I had far fewer than 11 people left, and after rebuilding the shell once, I had no desire to do so again, especially when there are so few endgame players already divided among many endgame shells. Instead, I sent my existing players to Are's new shell, where (I thought) they would be welcome.

You need mass to make Limbus work. I was not going to punish my remaining people by having them limp along in a weakened shell when they could be cruising in an existing one.

I did not feel I had a voice in how things were run. Wednesday made it pretty clear when he insisted even after people said don't have him go to the zone. I like both Celv and Khajit and hold nothing against them. I just could not stay in a shell where the leader would allow someone to zone in for drop when they did not bother to do the fight.

As I have said many times, I would not have allowed Khajit to lot. This is an assumption you made on your part.


Veralynn and Ewok, again, I thank you guys for your support.

 

[Arthur]

I was in the shell for that wednesday when we were told that khajit was to come to the zone "in case" he could lot. I also was in FallofOdin. When the members of FoO were informed of the "special" list well over half quit. At the top of the list was Arthur and Celv. A. body and Odins valhalla. No one was aware of these promises prior to the announcement, which did not come from Doth. So the average player saw new leaders placing themselves at the top no matter the points of others. When members stated in the LS they did not like this, they were not given any choice. "but Doth promised" was all we got. There was no real discusion, it was simply how it would be done. The next run well over half of the ls just failed to come. Doth's promises had nothing to do with the members. We did not agree to it, yet we were expected to get them their odin drop. In return they would not lot any of the other abj. Last check Odin droppped items a lot more often than the tier bosses. I do events for fun, so I stayed. Eventually the shell broke because we could never get more than 22 people to show up.

This is almost entirely incorrect. "Well overhalf" did not quit because of the wistlist. People were quiting way before and after because of the losing all the time/times changes/getting the ichor items they wanted/doth leaving/ ect...

These promises was not secret. Doth announced them after he left. Nothing was secret, we learned about it the same did every member did. He asked Me, Celvantes, Lyrai what we wanted and we said it. Me ,Courtney, Lyrai, Galiant, Celvantes and you had the most points. I think he made the reservations because we were leading and had most attendance, so it was for hard work to be garuntee something. It wasn't a horrible thing because we already had the points to get everything and nobody else came close. But yes, it wasn't a good system.

You didn't even bother to mention that Celvantes took months off the game not long after that. And then we droped all the reservation stuff to join up with Einherjartards. I wanted to break the reservations at that time and you know it. Lyrai wanted to stick with it, which is why she didnt join the merge. AND the ls did not even end as a 22 person thing it ended after both linkshells couldn't go on anymore.

Alot of people didn't want the linkshell to break at all. I even still get tells about reforming and such, but I already go with limitless. Hell you were of the main people who didn't want the linkshell to break at all. So, if you dont remember something clearly, dont bother posting it.

 

[Keryan]

Doth did not announce the list before or after he left to the LS. It was his brother, you and celv <lol his brother left FoO that day or the run after >. AFTER doth left we the shell were informed <hey doth went to ivy league school btw.....> We were not given a choice in it. I most certainly did not see a vote proposed on it. Most of the people who ran had more attendance in than Celv. You being one of them with more points. Yes HALF or NEAR TO HALF the remaining people did leave after this. I had a ton of people talking to me in tells about how the list was unfair and that they would just get another shell. I was asked to form a shell by a few. I already run one LS, I do not need to run another :shok: They wanted me to go with them, but I liked FoO so I stayed figuring once we got to odin, gear would drop fast. <it does in other shells>

Yes Celv was deployed AFTER half of the shell left. Be honest even if he stayed the shell still would have broken. Many of his limbus players left the shell, they made up a good number of sunday runners when we started FoO. <not progressing> We never recovered from the players leaving after the list was announced. Others left because we could not get past tier one. Everytime a new member joined another left. Right after the merge we won a tier one. Then people just stopped showing "again". But the day we were told of the list is when we lost the LARGEST group of people. I did not remember it wrong, you only know the side from leadership <aka you already knew of the list>.

Hell the leaders gave up on FoO. Lyrai, Galaint, the leaders from the merge wednesday runs. All you did was put the shell out of it's misery. Yet when a shell loses 10+ people at one time in an event that needs 36 you tend to screw yourself. When that shell only had 24 before that....well you get the idea. You and I both know we only averaged 18-26 per run most times. Maybe you should take your own advice about posting. Remember you were on the damn list and knew about it. We the members expected to get you that armor got told AFTER the deal was made. Kinda makes one wonder if you would skew things a little just to look better. It is easy to point and say they are wrong when you were to gain by it.

I would also point out that sunday runs got so bad ,we had somedays where only twelve showed up .<lol we almost won with 12 too, oh yeah you skipped those runs>. Merged Wednesdays near the end, we were lucky to break our old average of 24. The shells Morale was broken with that wishlist, so people did not want to stay to get other people their wish list gear first, or stay in a shell that could not even beat a tier one consistantly. Damn I almost forgot some people left because the leaders BITCHED and yelled even when they did nothing wrong. The pointing fingers thing was a bit childish. We lost because <insert name> DID NOT <insert reason>. Arthur did not do this, but other leaders did. I know of atleast three members who left because of that. After FoO broke many got into some very nice shells. Let this be a lesson~ Placing a handful of people ahead of the shell is a good way to lose the shell. Especailly <sp> when you do not include the linkshell members in the decision to create the list. /sidenote ~ Doth did not keep very good records of the runs before he left. Many people were not even given their full points for runs. This also was a factor in people leaving that day. If you have to start behind someone might as well be in a shell that wins.

 

[Keryan]

Almost forgot! We were told the list was there because certain people were promised it if they took over the shell. I was not on the list so it had NOTHING to do with having top points. It was announced by the new leadership that they DID NOT EVEN KNOW the accurate point tally because Doth did not keep good records. I am sorry if you disagree with what I have said, but it is the truth. When you have multiple people seeing something, you get mulitple points of views.

 

[Arthur]

Almost forgot! We were told the list was there because certain people were promised it if they took over the shell. I was not on the list so it had NOTHING to do with having top points. It was announced by the new leadership that they DID NOT EVEN KNOW the accurate point tally because Doth did not keep good records. I am sorry if you disagree with what I have said, but it is the truth. When you have multiple people seeing something, you get mulitple points of views.

First of all I did not say there was a voting. Your talking to the person who took attendance EVERY flipping day, I know when there was attendance swings. Yes, Doth failed to take attendance all the time, because he didn't care for anyone or the linkshell. Im willing to bet he only made us priority so we will stick to the shell longer(Which only worked on lyrai obviously). I'm sure probably some people said it was unfair to you but half the shell did not vanish after that. I probably can bring it up now, but this is off topic anyways. I did not ask to lead the shell and I did not ask to have any priority. Infact i was totally leading when he asked but I sucked it up since Celvantes and Lyrai was going to be helping. My point is the shell was not some evil dictatorship like your saying it is. Everything happened because of DOTH and only DOTH. You liked the shell and wanted it to keep going, while im the one who wanted to disband or merge.

I never said the shell was good, I agree with you it was bad. All we did was recycle members, you being the main person recruiting people. But, I find it hard to believe people were telling you they wanted to branch out and you didn't say anything or do it. Explain that if you can.

Again, your saying stuff I never said. I already knew we were low on members. We considered the runs "ichor farming". I don't even know why you are even doing this, I did not ask for anything, I don't know how you can even say I was planning on hording up the gear or something. I knew we were not going to kill odin after Doth left, it was an impossible goal. You honestly think I was going to get an A body with a 18-24 linkshell?

No, its not the truth. As I said before he did it for the people who he wanted to lead the shell. That is why he didn't go for the other higher points people like you. It was NOT announced by leadership in general. It was announced by doth or his brother.(I still think thats bs and hes just 1 person lieing all the time) HE WAS THE ONLY PERSON WHO WAS LEADING THE SHELL. I was just a regular member, so its a lie to say I or anyone discussed the priority crap.

I don't even understand what you mean about "Arthur did not do this, but other leaders did".Explain that too. And I hate how you use the word "leaders", that means your targeting me. And you know I did not bitch at anything. If I did tell me specifically. I assume you mean Lyrai which I agree was useless arguement that made the shell just lose more and more people. And yes people did tell me they left because of argueing with her.

Now your just exagerrating. I did not miss "runs" with low members. I know what day your talking about too. The day i canceled the run and had to go do RL stuff. But people still wanted to go and someone(totally forgot who) was ok with sponsering. That run didn't even have an attendance it was a free day.

Short Summary: I did not ask to lead the shell, I did my best with our low numbers. Nobody created the list but Doth and he ruined the shell when he left for many reason. The Wishlist was not the reason, people who left talked to ME and explained. I had a roster and took attendance everyday. I know why people left not you. If someone didn't show up it was me or galiant who talked to them. I have no idea why your even trash talking me and a linkshell you liked.

 

[Arthur]

http://corsairdoth.proboards104.com/index.cgi?board=general

I change my mind, you can check link for proof. I assume Doth left on August since there is no attendance before that date. He told us that he took track of that and had notes but obviously not good notes. I took out the roster after the merge because the other ls was doing points and such. We agreed to break the system and I was very happy about that. Im sure Einhertards III can back me up for that. I wanted to merge very badly, but Lyrai did not because of the priority and the linkshell time change. It was so bad that I was told lies about Audino views. Like how they did not like most of our members and they were not willing to merge at all. But in the end we did and both shell did the best with limited people. Its funny how you don't mention that still. Only the negatives are ok I guess since this is the flameboard? :wacko:

 

[Mirewen]

Thanks, Mire. I hope your new shell is doing well. By all accounts, I've heard it is.

Silly man, I quit the game over a year ago and haven't played since.

Mirewin

All this time and I'm still full of win.

 

[Galiantaru]

Hell the leaders gave up on FoO. Lyrai, Galaint, the leaders from the merge wednesday runs.

Um...pardon me? Some of the officers (especially the Einhertards ones) might have stopped caring and stopped coming, but I sure as hell didn't. I stuck with both shells both days until the VERY end. I didn't give up a damn thing, and was quite pissed off to discover that both shells were being broken. I busted my ass to try and lead whenever Arthur, Lyrai, or Celv was not there. So please don't slander my name with something that is untrue.

 

[Arthur]

Um...pardon me? Some of the officers (especially the Einhertards ones) might have stopped caring and stopped coming, but I sure as hell didn't. I stuck with both shells both days until the VERY end. I didn't give up a damn thing, and was quite pissed off to discover that both shells were being broken. I busted my ass to try and lead whenever Arthur, Lyrai, or Celv was not there. So please don't slander my name with something that is untrue.

Exactly, Galiant wasn't even on reserved list but he lead alot. He did parties and a big part of getting members to attend.

 

[Arezael]

I don't really know what your point is, but there are some glaring holes in what you keep repeating. Kindly read what I have to say and think about it before you go posting anything else.

If I wanted to sully your reputation, I would have started a flame on Qcdn. Did I? No.

You mentioned in your posts that there were plenty of people who had absolutely no idea what was going on, that Sunday. That was because I hadn't said a word to them. How does that coincide with your theory of my speaking ill of you? It doesn't.

Of the 10 people that joined me, 2 of them I also did not speak a word to. Three of the remaining 9, I simply told I was leaving and going to start my own runs. I can only assume one of them told the former 2 I mentioned regarding my plan.

Not a single person was coerced into joining us, they were simply given the choice to if that was what they wanted. These are people, many of whom were present on the Omega run you keep whining about, who made up their own opinion of what you said, and chose to leave of their own free will.

If they didn't want to join us, then I respected their decision and left it at that.

There's an absolute litany of things that I think you did wrong that I simply can't be bothered to bring up here, or in fact anywhere. I don't care about your reputation enough to post about it, or make up lies to people about it.

If you didn't like the way things worked, you could have left at any time.

Read what you keep posting for once.

 

[Xalioniaf]

Can't say much concerning BK. During my short time there I got to know the reserve list. Kinda shitty for a shell on a point system, eh, but if you didn't like it you could leave, which is what I did.
It is pretty dick to just up and rob a shell of its members without warning, though.