/breaklinkshell

[Celvantes]

Today I had to break a linkshell... something I never thought I'd have to do.

In October of 08, I returned from deployment to my limbus shell, which had been started by Quirien much earlier to find it in disarray. One lotting system was being replaced by another, runs weren't going well, and people weren't happy.

I offered to take over from Achates, eventually re-vamped everything, took what was a promised gear system and changed it to a purely attendence based lot system, and slowly but surely rebuilt the shell.

We went from not winning any bosses, to taking down 2-3 Omegas and 1 Ultima/month.

Then I deployed again, and found an able leader in Arezael, who had come in after his own shell broke. Arezael expanded the shell and ran it well while I was gone. I came back from this year's deployment to a linkshell that was stronger than ever, and I couldn't be happier.

On Wednesday, Khajit was afk for the first part of the run. It was an Omega, and he was near the top on the Homam tier. He got back mid-way through, and asked if he could come down to lot. I told him I'd decide and to get himself into zone so there was at least the possiblility.

This was in the middle of the fight, mind you, so I didn't exactly have the time or inclination to decide policy then and there. I thought about it, and decided not to give him the chance to lot due to being AFK, even though he was at the top of the tier. I didn't tell him to stay in Jeuno, because he d/ced anyway and I thought that was the end of it.

But, I didn't say to the shell that he wouldn't be able to lot, and that apparently is extremely bad. Bad enough to lose my shell today.

This morning, as we're getting ready for what was supposed to be an Ultima, I find out that Arezael has taken all his recruits and formed his own shell, because I supposedly wanted to 'steal' a drop from mdkuser, who was next down the Homam list.

Arezael was even nice enough to offer the same tier points and attendence to anyone in BK who wanted to come over and join his shell. Everyone, of course, except those who tried to steal from MDK... meaning myself and Khajit.

I was left with 10 people who apparently weren't invited over before the run. I've rebuilt BK before... but honestly, I did not feel like I wanted to rebuild it again, especially after coming down from where we were.

So, I told anyone who wanted to go, that they could keep all their attendence in Arezael's new shell. I even told Arezael that he could have all my folks, just give me a chance to explain that I really wasn't trying to steal anything...

Do you think I even got that chance to go into his new /ls chat and talk? Nope.

So here it is. I don't mind leaving... I was done with limbus drops months ago. I stayed because BigKahunas was my pride and joy. I loved running, and running with, the shell... it was fun and we did great things.

I hope my guys get their drops in whatever the new shell is named. I'd rather them be with another shell than lose such momentum becase some people couldn't be mature enough to say "Hey, Celv, what the hell was that with Khajit?" when the incident happened.

I would have been more than glad to explain, and set things to right.

But I was never given that opportunity.

So, good luck. I'm out.

 

[Makelith]

That's a shame that happened to you Celv. Even when we were both like level 60 and we were going through bastok missions together i got a pretty good sense of your character. It's a shame other people can't figure people out the same way.

 

[Rappa]

Homeless folk still wanting to do Limbus, come apply to Lamebus, we have a few spots open right now! You won't want to drop your pearl when you're in a shell this successful and awesome!

http://www.qcdn.org/ffxi/showthread.php?t=63562

 

[Halifirien]

Sorry to hear about it. I loved running with BigKahunas back in the old days, although to be honest I was so far out of touch that I thought the linkshell dissolved a long time ago. I had dinner with Quieren last weekend and couldn't tell him how it was going since he moved over to WoW.

 

[Celvantes]

Tell Q hi from me, Hali. *laugh* I remember calling him after we finally won our first Ultima after he left.

We had a spectacular run while it lasted.

 

[JP]

That sucks Celv =/, sorry to hear that happened to you man.

 

[pchan]

1) Khajit wanted to leave the shell after getting the hands a few weeks ago. He already has the best THF gear, and doesn't need lol-body.

2) The reason the shell was reformed is not due to this event with last omega. Arezael did a lot of recruitement to make it possible to double/tripple split runs, so as to maximise the rendement of chips, which we rarely did with you, even when we had 13+.

 

[Celvantes]

1) Khajit wanted to leave the shell after getting the hands a few weeks ago. He already has the best THF gear, and doesn't need lol-body.

2) The reason the shell was reformed is not due to this event with last omega. Arezael did a lot of recruitement to make it possible to double/tripple split runs, so as to maximise the rendement of chips, which we rarely did with you, even when we had 13+.

Before Arezael even joined, I did split runs whenever we had the numbers to do so.

After a couple of losses due to low manning, we started playing more conservatively, because we wanted to ensure one win instead of two potential losses. This is the time you're referring to.

HOWEVER, the moment we had the bodies to do more than one run safely, we started again. Anyone who has been in the shell since I took over (months before you joined, I might add), can attest to that.

Split runs had nothing to do with this. The debacle with Khajit on Wednesday is the reason behind it. Arezael told me himself, as did 1/2 the people who left this morning.

tl;dr - Shut up, Pchan.

 

[Gregedor]

1) Khajit wanted to leave the shell after getting the hands a few weeks ago. He already has the best THF gear, and doesn't need lol-body.

Your opinion on what someone needs/doesn't need is immaterial to his right and privilage to lot it under the LS system. Also Khajit wasn't allowed to lot and the item didn't even drop so this is a illegitimate reason.

2) The reason the shell was reformed is not due to this event with last omega. Arezael did a lot of recruitement to make it possible to double/tripple split runs, so as to maximise the rendement of chips, which we rarely did with you, even when we had 13+.

Um... we did a triple split run last week dude...

 

[pchan]

Um... we did a triple split run last week dude...

which proves my point

 

[mdkuser]

The event of last wednesday isn't what make us break the ls. Although it surely shocked many members that you could let lot someone that didn't participate to the battle. You were told you stole from your members, thats related to the " reserved list". As a thief personally, iIm not very happy to see a homam body go to a pld, a job that can use haubergeon(+1).


I have gotten one homam piece in 14 month. ONE. This is worse than salvage... some people have gotten nothing.


There has been a growing unsatisfaction in the LS in the last year. I remember complaining in the LS chat that ruled sucked, and immediatly got tells from 4-5 members aggreeing with me ( including, if you want names, apu, jussy, gwathuial, arezael, pchan..).

For people not members of this shell I'll point out what those rule were:

1. First, the so called "reserved" list. For some obscure reason, celvantes, Gregedor and a few other had Boss pieces reserved to them, whatever their attendance were. Seriously, how do you justify having 20+ member in a LS working just for one person, it's beyong me.

2. The system was a fake point system. Each boss drops costed 5 point, but you get 4 point for participating to the run... and like 10 point for farming the chips... so in practice someone earning a boss drops still stays on top of the list for the other parts... it's nonsense.

Consequence: no matter how often you attend, it is ALWAYS the same people that get items before others. How can you call this a point system ...

3. We farmed twice as much omega than ultima, this makes no sense. Had I been on the Nashira queue, I'd have left the shell long ago.

4. Before last summer, general suckage in the LS made it impossible to do dual farming runs, and we wiped to two of the few ultimas we did; I don't understand what's hard about ultima, but the low skill of certain members made it hard. Arezael's recuits improved the LS greatly.


You're a cool guy celvantes, but I don't think you realize how unfair the rules were and you've been literally using a whole ls to get a select number of people items. You were doing the same kind of things in your salvage, thats one of the reason me and others left

 

[Audino]

Its not the only shell where he used a system where things where "reserved." Its pretty bullshit imo and in the case that I came across it, it really didn't do anything but shy potential members away.

 

[Arezael]

Well, I can't say I'm surprised that you decided to make a flame about myself.

Just for the record this was handled entirely internally, and needed no place on the drama boards of a public forum.

However since you have done so I feel obligated to respond, not least because of what you state (as ever is with these flames) not everything is accurate.

There are a lot of behind the scenes things that contributed to today's moving of shells, but the final straw was indeed Wednesday's Omega run.

Khajit did indeed turn up late to the run, halfway however is not correct. He was in fact, 57 minutes late to gather together time, and by the time he would have gotten to Apollyon from Port Jeuno would have been easily 1 hour + in total.

He informed the ls that he would be coming to Apollyon to lot on the Homam body, to which you replied "Just get yourself to Apollyon Khaj, I will decide whether or not to let you lot".

However, we have an attendance points system. If you don't come to a run, you don't get any points. If you don't come on the run, you don't get a share of the coins that drop. If you don't come on the run, you don't get to lot AF+1 materials. If you don't come on the run, guess what, you won't be getting boss drops.

There's no leeway for any member of the ls, be it a leader, a sackholder or in fact the shellholder to decide whether or not someone who followed the rules could lot on an item. The attendance sheet was available for all to see and it was a transparent system insofar that everyone knew who was going to get items, and in what order.

There was another incident with a member where this exact same thing happened in summer '08. In both cases the items in question did not drop, however that doesn't in any way mean as a shell holder you had any right whatsoever to decide who can and cannot lot, within the realms of those who had followed the rules of the linkshell.

When I'd joined this shell at the start, it had just gone through a change of leadership from Achates, who had been guilty of deciding who got boss drops on his own initiative. This of course was what I had be informed of by sever members present during that era.

Perhaps the flame still exists on Qcdn - I remember reading it at that stage.

Now fast forward to the present and lo and behold, we have the current linkshell holder back from his tour of duty a few weeks gone (mid January, I'm sure you can supply the exact date you returned to the US) and you're doing the exact same thing.

When you came back you immediately started to try and change things, despite the fact nobody wanted them changed. Specifically your second limbus day back, you put in the /lsmes that it would be a metal chip run. I was in the middle of my Salvage run, some 2 hours prior to the Limbus gather together time, and people were spamming me with tells, some stating in absolute clear terms they would fake d/c if we did them.

At this stage I'd spoken to you in /tell and stated with crystal clarity that you should speak to the member base before making changes.

I warned you that all the people I'd recruited into the ls were given a personal promise by me, that they would be treated fairly and given equal opportunity to obtain items. I will not stand by and allow someone to abuse their privileged postion as shell holder to obtain all items first. Ironically, in the past, I had (in my own mind) no control over this, and this is exactly what you have done.

You tried to change the current lotting system for Af+1 mats, where I had it that it was free lot to 75 Jobs first, those 1/2 on the set given priority. You wanted to make it so that people had to spend 30 points to get an Af+1 item set, in contrast a full Homam or Nashira set would cost 25 points. Perhaps you think I'm a moron, I don't really care either way, but the key of making the AF+1 mats available to people of any job level set off some alarms. Again clearly you were trying to weight it so that certain people could abuse this to make sure they would get all items first, since all attendance points were from the same pool. If you dropped 30 points just for an Af+1 item, you'd lose your place in the boss drop queue. This was especially true for the newer members, who now would only ever get coins from each run.

You posted this plan in the private forum as "New Af+1 lotting idea". Everyone who posted disagreed with this change. You even said that you expected people to not use points. So why change it? You stated you were going to do it anyway.

Apparently as the shellholder you can do whatever the fuck you want.

And so we're clear once more, this isn't the only reason I left. This was the last reason.

I don't see why linkshell leaders seem to think they're outside the rules of the linkshell, but I expect everyone to play fairly. It's really not hard.

My objective was simply to remove you from this false position of authority. Everyone was offered the choice to come across to my shell, with everything as it has been running the last 6 months staying the same. I simply used my own Ls as the medium to convey Limbus, it's actually the shell I use for Dynamis/Sea.

The proof is in the result, around half of the ls said they'd follow me when they learned I'd be leaving without me having to ask them. They know I'll treat them fairly, and they'll get what they work for.


Long story short, you were warned, and not just by me. You don't give a shit about your other members, which explains how there are people with 15+ months of stellar attendance who only have 1 boss drop. We're not here as slaves to get 3-4 people gear.



It's not really fucking hard to treat people fairly is it? Nobody should ever have to ask to be treated so, they should come into the Ls and be treated in that manner for the very moment they join.

Maybe you're not used to doing things that way, in the end I don't really care.






NB: Keep on flaming me if you like, I've got Salvage now, I've got plenty more to say if you want to go down this road.

 

[Tymon]

I don't usually poke my nose in other people's business but if this is really how it went down (Are/MDK's side) then I'm a bit surprised that such a well known shell on the server internally worked this way.

Guess internal drama happens inevitably these days.

 

[Arezael]

As a point of principle, I invite anyone in the Ls to come here and say if the factual information I presented above is false. Since I play on X360 the vast majority of my time, I don't have screenshots, perhaps someone else took some?

 

[mdkuser]

Its not the only shell where he used a system where things where "reserved." Its pretty bullshit imo and in the case that I came across it, it really didn't do anything but shy potential members away.

refering to a certain einherjar shell?

 

[Audino]

refering to a certain einherjar shell?

Maybe!

 

[Khajit]

1) Khajit wanted to leave the shell after getting the hands a few weeks ago. He already has the best THF gear, and doesn't need lol-body.

Gotta clear this up. I was considering leaving the shell after homam+coins for a different reason.
Look back to the lold flame.
Now consider that Kohra is in the same salvage ls that celv lead. Now consider that I was told I "handled things wrong" with lold(aka me getting pissed off).
Then consider that I was expected to HELP Kohra to get his salvage gear. Then consider that he had stated that he didn't actually bother reading said flame to find out what happened which would have meant anyone could have seen me quitting woa after that when I had everything I wanted in salvage for thf and they avoided anything I was actually after like the plague(probably coincidental due to them focusing on other pieces which isnt wrong in itself but clearing out the entire ares tier in SILVER SEA before killing the skadi NM even once is a tad excessive even if I do admit skadi hands suck).
Then consider that changing tiers(even after you complete a set) would result in a complete point loss when I hadn't spent any points in the shell history(due to being the only one that actually could use the skadi) making me literally a points Juggernaut. (and to boot I technically got less salvage 35 from woa than the people I would have skipped ahead of so it wasn't like hoping for a shot at a drop could be considered greedy)
And to top it all off anyone that got into the ls so much as 1 day before the tier change would have priority over me putting me 3~5 spots behind the rest of the ls on the good pieces meaning that any future (and alot of the past)attendance was simply a waste of time when it came to benefiting me which I actually had no problems large enough to quit over until they expected me to waste said time/effort on a jackass like Kohra without caring to even read what happened while using the whole "what happened in Vegas stays in Vegas" line to say that no matter what someone does to you outside of ls you're supposed to give them happy Carebear smiles in an event they're in. As a result of this the length of my stay in BK went from "stay forever"(Limbus also my favourite event so staying for the fun of it is a valid option to me) to stay until I get my gear and evaluate if i want to stay or not.

Also. the homam body wasn't for my thf. It was for my drg so I did have a valid reason for it since capped weapon merits is technically impossible at this time plus shit is situational.(It's not like there isn't a single high eva monster in the game and even then i was still unsure which of the 2 bodies would win for tp on thf during high eva situations)

Oh yeah and I didn't say I was coming into apol to lot as if I was commanding all to pass to me. I was ASKING if i could to which a simple no would have sufficed and I could have simply done something else. due to conflicting reports from the 2 main people in charge I took the "better safe than sorry route."

 

[Arezael]

Excuse me for stating that I'd be doing Salvage, and therefore not be able to respond immediately. That would make including this post, about the second time, in ~5 years of being a Qcdn member I've mentioned it on the public forums. I'm a serial poster, obviously.

Now if you have a point to flame about that event, go ahead and start your own. This is about Limbus.

If this is all you have to say, then fuck off wanker.

 

[rampagesama]

Excuse me for stating that I'd be doing Salvage, and therefore not be able to respond immediately. That would make including this post, about the second time, in ~5 years of being a Qcdn member I've mentioned it on the public forums. I'm a serial poster, obviously.

Now if you have a point to flame about that event, go ahead and start your own. This is about Limbus.

If this is all you have to say, then fuck off wanker.

He was refering to Mdk/Pchan most likely, not you.