Does it matter? His post didn't contribute to the flame at all, which Mdk's/Pchan's posts did.
Mansin's only objective here is to troll obviously, so he might as well stay out of the thread. If he want to read every thread Mdk/Pchan post in, I won't tell him not to. I just find it amazing that he manages to point out every time they mention Salvage in a thread.
Oh, and I'm neutral to this thread. I'm not in BK, so I don't know what has happened beyond what I've been told in LS and this thread. While I'm better friends with Arez, Pchan and Mdk for somewhat obvious reasons, I do know all three have a tendency to overreact.
That being said, Arez is probably one of the more fair people in-game, which can sometimes be a bad thing as he's sometimes a bit too fair.
When I'd joined this shell at the start, it had just gone through a change of leadership from Achates, who had been guilty of deciding who got boss drops on his own initiative. This of course was what I had be informed of by sever members present during that era.
This isn't entirely true. Yes it appeared that way, but infact I was using a list that Quieren had in the forums for some time with an order of who got what. Since I ran BK for exactly two boss runs (one omega, and one failed ultima) I saw no need in adjusting said list until a leadership team was formed. Part of the reason things went bad was because NO one wanted to lead and so I was stuck running something I knew nothing about at the time with 0 help. Once Celv asked for it, I had no problems giving it to him. I should have never offered to try when Quieren basically bailed on the shell.
And yes, I'm sure that flame still exists somewhere on the boards.
Does it matter? His post didn't contribute to the flame at all, which Mdk's/Pchan's posts did.
Mansin's only objective here is to troll obviously, so he might as well stay out of the thread. If he want to read every thread Mdk/Pchan post in, I won't tell him not to. I just find it amazing that he manages to point out every time they mention Salvage in a thread.
Rarely does MDK or Pchan's posts ever have anything relevant to the subject at hand other than "ZOMG SALVAGE IS UBER GOOD ESPECIALLY W/ KFC." So I don't think what mansin should have any differential treatment than how we treat Pchan.
In my eyes this is just araezael(sp) taking members because he was butthurt shit wasn't run his way. Someone got a taste of power in the shell and decided he would run it himself so his click could get the gear he wanted. So in the end in this case, 3-4 people of are's click will get the gear they want, and everyone else will get shit on... Sounds about right.
Rarely does MDK or Pchan's posts ever have anything relevant to the subject at hand other than "ZOMG SALVAGE IS UBER GOOD ESPECIALLY W/ KFC." So I don't think what mansin should have any differential treatment than how we treat Pchan.
In my eyes this is just araezael(sp) taking members because he was butthurt shit wasn't run his way. Someone got a taste of power in the shell and decided he would run it himself so his click could get the gear he wanted. So in the end in this case, 3-4 people of are's click will get the gear they want, and everyone else will get shit on... Sounds about right.
Rarely does MDK or Pchan's posts ever have anything relevant to the subject at hand other than "ZOMG SALVAGE IS UBER GOOD ESPECIALLY W/ KFC." So I don't think what mansin should have any differential treatment than how we treat Pchan.
In my eyes this is just araezael(sp) taking members because he was butthurt shit wasn't run his way. Someone got a taste of power in the shell and decided he would run it himself so his click could get the gear he wanted. So in the end in this case, 3-4 people of are's click will get the gear they want, and everyone else will get shit on... Sounds about right.
You do know the reason they mentioned Salvage in this thread is because Celvantes leads a Salvage shell as well, right?
And I highly doubt Arez remade the shell to give himself gear before everyone else. Arez is the kind of guy that don't put up with shit, and speak up if he think something isn't clean. While we're on the subject of Salvage, Arez has passed several pieces to other members even though he had every right to lot said piece, like my Morrigan 35 body. I highly doubt he would have done that if the only thing he wanted was more gear for himself.
The event of last wednesday isn't what make us break the ls. Although it surely shocked many members that you could let lot someone that didn't participate to the battle. You were told you stole from your members, thats related to the " reserved list". As a thief personally, iIm not very happy to see a homam body go to a pld, a job that can use haubergeon(+1).
I have gotten one homam piece in 14 month. ONE. This is worse than salvage... some people have gotten nothing.
There has been a growing unsatisfaction in the LS in the last year. I remember complaining in the LS chat that ruled sucked, and immediatly got tells from 4-5 members aggreeing with me ( including, if you want names, apu, jussy, gwathuial, arezael, pchan..).
For people not members of this shell I'll point out what those rule were:
1. First, the so called "reserved" list. For some obscure reason, celvantes, Gregedor and a few other had Boss pieces reserved to them, whatever their attendance were. Seriously, how do you justify having 20+ member in a LS working just for one person, it's beyong me.
2. The system was a fake point system. Each boss drops costed 5 point, but you get 4 point for participating to the run... and like 10 point for farming the chips... so in practice someone earning a boss drops still stays on top of the list for the other parts... it's nonsense.
Consequence: no matter how often you attend, it is ALWAYS the same people that get items before others. How can you call this a point system ...
3. We farmed twice as much omega than ultima, this makes no sense. Had I been on the Nashira queue, I'd have left the shell long ago.
4. Before last summer, general suckage in the LS made it impossible to do dual farming runs, and we wiped to two of the few ultimas we did; I don't understand what's hard about ultima, but the low skill of certain members made it hard. Arezael's recuits improved the LS greatly.
You're a cool guy celvantes, but I don't think you realize how unfair the rules were and you've been literally using a whole ls to get a select number of people items. You were doing the same kind of things in your salvage, thats one of the reason me and others left
1) Khajit wanted to leave the shell after getting the hands a few weeks ago. He already has the best THF gear, and doesn't need lol-body.
2) The reason the shell was reformed is not due to this event with last omega. Arezael did a lot of recruitement to make it possible to double/tripple split runs, so as to maximise the rendement of chips, which we rarely did with you, even when we had 13+.
The only thing I flamed, you might notice, is your unwillingness to let me talk to those who left, to explain what had happened.
I even called you 'nice,' for your willingness to take on members and keep their points.
I am attempting to remain civil, Arezael, even though this could have easily been a page long diatribe on betrayal.
My point in creating this thread was to state my side of the story, which none of the people who left with you today heard.
Just for the record this was handled entirely internally, and needed no place on the drama boards of a public forum.
However since you have done so I feel obligated to respond, not least because of what you state (as ever is with these flames) not everything is accurate.
The moment you kept me from clearing my name, it became a public matter. How else, was I supposed to reach those who either sent me /tells, or said in LS before leaving, that they no longer trusted me?
I've worked hard on my reputation, and I will not let a misunderstanding brand me as yet another linkshell leader that attempts to screw over his members.
'Handling this entirely on this inside' would have involved asking me, in /ls, what the deal was, and clearing up any misunderstandings instead of just tearing the shell in two without any warning.
You sir, are the one who could have kept this all internal with a simple question.
Hell, if you had asked to takeover the shell in light of what had happened, I would have given it to you. I trusted you enough to give you the shell when I deployed. I would have gladly passed leadership. But no, you just decided to tell everyone that I was a liar, and a cheat, and tear apart what was a well-oiled machine.
There are a lot of behind the scenes things that contributed to today's moving of shells, but the final straw was indeed Wednesday's Omega run.
Khajit did indeed turn up late to the run, halfway however is not correct. He was in fact, 57 minutes late to gather together time, and by the time he would have gotten to Apollyon from Port Jeuno would have been easily 1 hour + in total.
He informed the ls that he would be coming to Apollyon to lot on the Homam body, to which you replied "Just get yourself to Apollyon Khaj, I will decide whether or not to let you lot".
However, we have an attendance points system. If you don't come to a run, you don't get any points. If you don't come on the run, you don't get a share of the coins that drop. If you don't come on the run, you don't get to lot AF+1 materials. If you don't come on the run, guess what, you won't be getting boss drops.
Acutally, if you go into the rules on our forum, it doesn't actually say that. I know this, because I wrote those rules, before you even joined the shell. The rules don't specify what happens when someone shows up late, even though they may be at the top of a tier.
I've included them here:
Spoiler:
Lotting rules:
Tier System: There are two separate tiers, Homam, and Nashira. You can only pick one at a time. Position on tier is dependant upon attendance. Points are awarded as follows:
1. Run attendance within your set's zone (i.e. Apollyon for Homam): +2
2. Run attendance outside your set's zone (i.e Temenos for Homam): +4
3. Boss run on your set's boss (i.e. Omega for Homam): +4
4. Boss run on the opposing set's boss (i.e. Ultima for Homam): +8
5. Recruiting a member who is approved after their trial run: +2 after two weeks of attendance.
6. Run attendance where both zones are done at once: +3
7. Showing late for a run: -2 (unless you only get 2 points for the run in which case it is -1)
8. Showing after 12:00 Central on a Sunday run: -1/2 of total run points (assuming you run at all).
Changing tiers requires the loss of 1/2 that player's accumulated points. If someone wants to stay on tier in order to keep all their points for coin lotting (see below), they may do so. However, when they actually want to jump tiers, they will need to forfeit half their points.
At the end of a boss run when the armor drops, the person at the top of that tier will lot on their armor piece of choice. You can only lot one piece of armor per boss fight. After that, the next person down the list will pick and so on. A player is allowed to pass if they want. When a player gets a piece of armor, they lose 5 points. The reason for this is to allow other players a chance at armor while still keeping those with good attendance within striking distance of lotting rights. I anticipate that the rarer pieces will go to the first or second places on the tier, whereas the more common drops could potentially fall as low as 5 or 6.
There is one exception to this rule. If no one wishes to lot points for an item that's not really worth it (i.e. Homam Zucchetto), it will then go free lot to the entire tier. The winner will not lose points when he or she receives the item.
Because the rules don't specify that, it falls to me, as the leader of the shell, to make a decision.
Common sense would dictate that if someone doesn't show up on time, he doesn't get to lot. This is what I had ended up deciding.
HOWEVER, to forestall an emo fit from Khajit, and to simply put the matter on the back burner while we were fighting Omega, I told him to come down. That would keep him busy, and let us focus on the run. Drops could be sorted when the dust had settled.
Did you ask me what I was thinking?
Did you once ask what I was going to do?
No, you didn't. Because if you did, I would have told you.
There's no leeway for any member of the ls, be it a leader, a sackholder or in fact the shellholder to decide whether or not someone who followed the rules could lot on an item. The attendance sheet was available for all to see and it was a transparent system insofar that everyone knew who was going to get items, and in what order.
According to the rules you are so flagrantly touting, Khajit had priority on the drop, since, last I saw, he was on the top of the Homam tier. Of course, mdk, and the rest below him, didn't want him to be able to lot... had he shown up on time, he would have had priority over them, due to having more attendence points.
However, he was late, grossly late, and I wasn't going to let him lot. HOWEVER, because it doesn't specifically say on our forum that you can't use your tier points if you're not inside the run on time, I couldn't just shut him down then and there. I had no leg to stand on, so to speak.
This is why I told him to come down, as a way of forestalling any argument in /ls that would have been a detriment to the run.
Again, you never asked what I was doing. You just assumed the worst and destroyed the linkshell because of it.
There was another incident with a member where this exact same thing happened in summer '08. In both cases the items in question did not drop, however that doesn't in any way mean as a shell holder you had any right whatsoever to decide who can and cannot lot, within the realms of those who had followed the rules of the linkshell.
Considering how long ago this was, I have to admit I can only vaguely remember the incident. However, as I recall, Hach, who was at the time near the top of the Homam tier (well above the next person down), was slightly late. We had just entered when he arrived. If I remember correctly, it was due to circumstances beyond his control. That is why I let him enter zone and lot after the fight. This was for two reasons:
1) He earned his spot on the tier by having given more time to the shell than those below him.
2) His tardiness was not his fault.
To have kept him from lotting at that point, would have gone against the spirit of the rules, because, someone much lower on tier than he would have gotten a drop before him.
So, if I did that with Hach, why wouldn't I have done it with Khaj? Well, Khaj was a hell of a lot later, and he didn't come in saying "hey, I got stuck at work, etc." Instead, he just came in and bitched to me in /tell about us not waiting for him.
In any case, the point of our tier system is to reward first those people who have given the most to the shell. Because there is no rule stating that one can't lot if they're late to a run, it falls to the leader to make that judgment call.
In hindsight, I should have made a rule pertaining to this. Obviously I didn't, but it certainly was not malicious. In over a year of running this shell, this situation has come up twice.
When I'd joined this shell at the start, it had just gone through a change of leadership from Achates, who had been guilty of deciding who got boss drops on his own initiative. This of course was what I had be informed of by sever members present during that era.
Perhaps the flame still exists on Qcdn - I remember reading it at that stage.
Now fast forward to the present and lo and behold, we have the current linkshell holder back from his tour of duty a few weeks gone (mid January, I'm sure you can supply the exact date you returned to the US) and you're doing the exact same thing.
Unlike Achates, I wasn't making a list of drop orders out of thin air, and telling new people that they would be next on certain drops. I set up the tier based attendence system when I took over, and it hasnt' changed since then.
So no, I'm not doing anything like what Achates did. You are wrong.
When you came back you immediately started to try and change things, despite the fact nobody wanted them changed. Specifically your second limbus day back, you put in the /lsmes that it would be a metal chip run. I was in the middle of my Salvage run, some 2 hours prior to the Limbus gather together time, and people were spamming me with tells, some stating in absolute clear terms they would fake d/c if we did them.
In hindsight, I shouldn't have just put that in /lsmes, especially since not all the shell knew me.
HOWEVER, had anyone bothered to ask, at the start of the run, why we were doing a metal chip run, I would have gladly told them the reason:
From what I had heard when I got back, the shell had been grinding pretty damned hard on the normal runs, and I thought everyone could use a break and try something new. It was supposed to be FUN. But, everyone assumed the worst and started the drama to which you are referring. Had a single person said, hey, I really thing we should keep grinding, I would have said 'no problem.' It was no skin off my nose.
But no one asked, no one said anything, they just sent angry /tells to you, and all I got from you was a /tell threatening to quit and take your people with you.
That's a hell of a response to me just wanting to have the shell do something for fun.
At this stage I'd spoken to you in /tell and stated with crystal clarity that you should speak to the member base before making changes.
I warned you that all the people I'd recruited into the ls were given a personal promise by me, that they would be treated fairly and given equal opportunity to obtain items. I will not stand by and allow someone to abuse their privileged postion as shell holder to obtain all items first. Ironically, in the past, I had (in my own mind) no control over this, and this is exactly what you have done.
Saying that we're doing something different on a run is not a 'change.' It's akin to a dynamis leader saying that they're doing Dynamis-Qufim instead of Dynamis-Windurst on a given night. It was supposed to be one fun run, not changing the entire run scheme of BK.
You tried to change the current lotting system for Af+1 mats, where I had it that it was free lot to 75 Jobs first, those 1/2 on the set given priority. You wanted to make it so that people had to spend 30 points to get an Af+1 item set, in contrast a full Homam or Nashira set would cost 25 points. Perhaps you think I'm a moron, I don't really care either way, but the key of making the AF+1 mats available to people of any job level set off some alarms. Again clearly you were trying to weight it so that certain people could abuse this to make sure they would get all items first, since all attendance points were from the same pool. If you dropped 30 points just for an Af+1 item, you'd lose your place in the boss drop queue. This was especially true for the newer members, who now would only ever get coins from each run.
First of all, you didn't even get my proposed lotting system right. Using points on AF+1 mats was an *option,* you didn't have to use points under the idea I proposed. Using points only gave someone priority.
The reason the point value was so high was so that only those who *really* wanted the AF would even consider using points. Ideally, no one who was still in the running for Homam/Nash would do so, meaning that most AF+1 drops would go along the old 1/2, 70+, free lot route.
Again, you never bothered to read what I posted. All you saw was "YOU MUST USE POINTS TO LOT AF+1 MATS," no matter how many times I explained to the contrary.
The title of the thread is "New AF+1 Lotting Idea"
Not "New Rule," and certainly not me re-writing the rules, even though I could have done so.
Instead, I started a discussion on it. I wanted to see what everyone thought. Like you said earlier, I was checking with the shell before I made a change.
Re-reading the post I made, I can see how you might think I was changing things. I was excited about a new AF+1 lotting option, thinking it would better clear out the congestion on the sought-after +1 items like BLM and NIN.
BUT, I didn't just out-and-out make the change. I was consulting, not dictating.
Bottom line, I didn't try to change anything. I didn't have to 'try' I could have just changed the rules. I was *discussing* an idea.
You posted this plan in the private forum as "New Af+1 lotting idea". Everyone who posted disagreed with this change. You even said that you expected people to not use points. So why change it? You stated you were going to do it anyway.
Apparently as the shellholder you can do whatever the fuck you want.
I never stated I was going to do it anyway. I never did it. Read the rules... AF+1 lotting never changed. Hence the term IDEA.
As shellholder, please note, I didn't do whatever the fuck I wanted. I didn't do anything. I made a proposition.
And so we're clear once more, this isn't the only reason I left. This was the last reason.
I don't see why linkshell leaders seem to think they're outside the rules of the linkshell, but I expect everyone to play fairly. It's really not hard.
My objective was simply to remove you from this false position of authority. Everyone was offered the choice to come across to my shell, with everything as it has been running the last 6 months staying the same. I simply used my own Ls as the medium to convey Limbus, it's actually the shell I use for Dynamis/Sea.
I would like you to point to one thing that I have *done* unfairly.
You say I was going to give a drop to Khajit. Nothing was given to him. And had you asked me, you would have known that nothing would have been given to him.
You say I was changing the rules of the shell. Look at our old forum. Nothing has been changed.
Not.One.Damned thing.
So in the end? What did I do? I changed an lsmes, wanting to do a run we never ended up doing.
I put up a post about a rule change idea, one that never happened.
And no, not everyone was offered the choice to come along to your shell, as evidenced by the 10 people sitting in BK with me this morning, who didn't know what was going on. You didn't ask Orta, Gregedor, Nyosan, or Kurohaemi, or any of the others to come join you.
The proof is in the result, around half of the ls said they'd follow me when they learned I'd be leaving without me having to ask them. They know I'll treat them fairly, and they'll get what they work for.
Long story short, you were warned, and not just by me. You don't give a shit about your other members, which explains how there are people with 15+ months of stellar attendance who only have 1 boss drop. We're not here as slaves to get 3-4 people gear.
Really? Arezael, YOU were the one keeping attendence. You can see how every boss run we've ever done resulted in the person with the most points getting the drops. Often times, drops went down 10 to 13 names on the list becaue people already had them above.
NEVER ONCE HAVE I CIRCUMVENTED THE TIER LIST.
The only exception to this was the reserved list at the *very* beginning of the shell. For those reading who don't know, Quieren and Achates had a set list of people who were supposed to get a certain drop next.
When I changed the lotting system from this list to the attendence based system we have, I created a very small reserve list to bridge the gap from the old system to the new system. On the Homam side, this list was worked through and done away with long before I ever deployed, and it was certainly not favoritism. The people on the list were those with over a year in the shell before you and anyone who came after you joined, and had we kept attendence from back then, they would have gotten those pieces first anyway.
Also, for the past 6 months, YOU'VE been assigning drops at every boss run. You've followed the same tier-points system I set up, so YOU explain why people with 15 months of attendence aren't getting drops. Last I saw, the top 6 people on the Homam list had 3/5 or 4/5 piecs.
You blame me for foul play... Ach, you've been running the shell since I deployed. All I've done since I got back was lead, I haven't touched shell admin or attendence. YOU'VE been the one responsible for handing out boss drops.
So explain how exactly it is that people are getting screwed over by me, when you've been the one handing out drops.
It's over, I'm done. But I will NOT be accused of doing something I didn't do.
Its not the only shell where he used a system where things where "reserved." Its pretty bullshit imo and in the case that I came across it, it really didn't do anything but shy potential members away.
I would be more than glad to illuminate the reserved system:
Currently there are piece reservations in order to transition from the old lotting system to the new. There are no more than 2 reservations on any given piece, and after those players are awarded the armor, future drops will go completely off the tier system.
Just a reminder, the reserved list below is only to serve as a transition from the way we used to do lots to the current tier system. The one piece per run restriction still applies. Reservations are not set in stone - if a tiered individual has twice the attendance or more than someone on the reserved list, they will co-lot on the armor in question. Once the reserved list is exhausted, drops will be done according to the tier system only.
The below reservations were done according to a number of criteria.
1. Time in shell
2. Attendance
3. Who Quieren promised gear
4. Who has been waiting the longest for a specific piece/any piece
As for the Einherjar reserved list, Audino, I would agree, it was a complete fucking debacle, one I'm not proud of. It was a direct result of who Doth promised what gear to, and when we looked at it after he bailed, it was clear he made a bunch of promises that he never intended to keep.
We should have just started over and not bothered with any kind of list. But hey, I'm not perfect, and it's a mistake I won't repeat.
THAT SAID, the reserve list in BK, which was done away with a long time ago, was nothing like the one in FoO. It reflected the requirements I detailed above, which is a direct copy/paste from the BK rules.
The reserved list for FallofOdin was made by Doth. Nobody asked for it, he just did it as a part of him leaving for the "hard work" the leaders have done. The rest is off topic so i'll leave it out.
First of all, you didn't even get my proposed lotting system right. Using points on AF+1 mats was an *option,* you didn't have to use points under the idea I proposed. Using points only gave someone priority.
The reason the point value was so high was so that only those who *really* wanted the AF would even consider using points. Ideally, no one who was still in the running for Homam/Nash would do so, meaning that most AF+1 drops would go along the old 1/2, 70+, free lot route.
Again, you never bothered to read what I posted. All you saw was "YOU MUST USE POINTS TO LOT AF+1 MATS," no matter how many times I explained to the contrary.
The title of the thread is "New AF+1 Lotting Idea"
Not "New Rule," and certainly not me re-writing the rules, even though I could have done so.
Instead, I started a discussion on it. I wanted to see what everyone thought. Like you said earlier, I was checking with the shell before I made a change.
Re-reading the post I made, I can see how you might think I was changing things. I was excited about a new AF+1 lotting option, thinking it would better clear out the congestion on the sought-after +1 items like BLM and NIN.
BUT, I didn't just out-and-out make the change. I was consulting, not dictating.
Bottom line, I didn't try to change anything. I didn't have to 'try' I could have just changed the rules. I was *discussing* an idea.
I never stated I was going to do it anyway. I never did it. Read the rules... AF+1 lotting never changed. Hence the term IDEA.
I wasn't in BK for long, only about 2 months infact, so I can't really comment on a lot of what's been said because I wasn't around to see it. However when you made the thread about the new AF+1 lotting rule, the bottom line (literal, not figurative) was "I'll be using this rule on Wednesday" (our next run, the thread was posted on a Sunday i believe).
There was several negative replies to the thread, that you had no idea about when wednesdays run came about so you clearly had not checked the thread since posting it. How is it a discussion when you declare what will be happening and then ignore any response? Once people voiced there concern in /l chat on the run you agreed to postpone implementing it, that much is true. But the fact is you blindly threw out this "new idea" with no discussion prior, in /l or with the other leaders and just expected people to like it, you seemed genuinely shocked when people objected before the run.
As far as the Omega/Khajit decision went last week, it's all well and good to say now "I had no intention of letting him lot", but look at it from everyone elses perspective. Khajit arrives over an hour late and asks to lot the body, you immediately say "get to apollyon and then I'll decide", I understand you say you were trying to avoid the distraction but Khajit wasn't in the alliance how hard would it have been to say "/p He wont be lotting but everyone needs to stay focused" or something similar? As it turns out the body didn't drop so you never had to make the decision but all anyone in the shell saw was you telling Khajit to get into position to lot it.
I regret the way all this went down, I don't really think it was the best way to split into a new shell and I'm sorry BK has been broken but what's done is done. I only joined BK because Arez was leading it, and I've been friends with him for a long while so when he approached me and said he was making a new shell of course i said I'd follow, I am a loyal person, but when it came to a choice between a friend I've had for years or a shell I've been in for 2 months well, there was no choice.
At the end of the day this argument could go on and on, but the fact that over 50% of the people present were willing to drop BK and join a new shell after a single /t should tell you that a lot of them were unhappy long before any of this.
I dont know the internal situation here at all but my only input is, in my opinion, when someone in a position of leadership, or more so for the sake of this topic, a person who is THE leader. When they have an extended absence from the shell, and their duties, chances are someones gonna take over if the shell is meant to keep going. Upon returning, i believe that the leader should come back as a regular member and work his way back up, adjusting to any change that was made during the leaders absence. Im not speaking for this situation specifically, but in general.
If i ran a shell, even a social, and had to leave for several months and someone took over, in a position of leadership, I wouldnt expect to come back and be handed the leadership role. Theres going to be new/different people in the shell, and its obvious changes will occur because its not the same exact person running the show.
If what people are saying, about you comming back and implementing certain rules without room for debate, is true, i think its kinda unfair to do that and will likely be met with general opposition.
I say this a bit from experience, before i took a year off i ran a small social with some good buddies, funny enough Arez was included. I kinda was gone without much warning and well i was the shellholder so it eventually broke. When i came back, (I didnt try to remake the shell) i contacted many of the good people from that shell, and chatted with em a bit letting em know im back and what not. However, i couldnt expect them to talk to me, or act like i was never gone. Were all friends, but of course its not the same like it was before i quit.
So the analogy here is, you cant take an extended leave and assume that when u come back, everything will be the same as the way you left it. Good luck to you both, and i wish you all well.
Sorry to see that happen Celv. Sadly I was less than happy to see certain people invited in that shell, ultimately the same people who are the reason you were *unable* to join the new shell. You're a great tank and a good person, don't let it get you down.
Considering how long ago this was, I have to admit I can only vaguely remember the incident. However, as I recall, Hach, who was at the time near the top of the Homam tier (well above the next person down), was slightly late. We had just entered when he arrived. If I remember correctly, it was due to circumstances beyond his control. That is why I let him enter zone and lot after the fight. This was for two reasons:
1) He earned his spot on the tier by having given more time to the shell than those below him.
2) His tardiness was not his fault.
I remember complaining in PT chats when you clearly said in LS you would let him lot on armor, that he earned his point etc... Keep in mind that was at a point where I had been 7 months in LS and still didn't get anything. So this justifies him loting over all 18 members that made the effort to log on time and spent 30k gil+60 minute of their time killing the NM. And the reason hach was late was because he forgot to wake up. Everyone forgot this incident now cause said items didn't drop.
From what I had heard when I got back, the shell had been grinding pretty damned hard on the normal runs, and I thought everyone could use a break and try something new. It was supposed to be FUN. But, everyone assumed the worst and started the drama to which you are referring. Had a single person said, hey, I really thing we should keep grinding, I would have said 'no problem.' It was no skin off my nose.
But no one asked, no one said anything, they just sent angry /tells to you, and all I got from you was a /tell threatening to quit and take your people with you.
That's a hell of a response to me just wanting to have the shell do something for fun.
When I saw the lsmes I immediatly informed arez. I thought it was pretty bullshit to do those useless metalchip runs, when most of us still had nothing from bosses, after going for 15 month to gear up select people.
The reason the point value was so high was so that only those who *really* wanted the AF would even consider using points. Ideally, no one who was still in the running for Homam/Nash would do so, meaning that most AF+1 drops would go along the old 1/2, 70+, free lot route.
And you still don't see how unfair this is? So basically, people on top of the Homam/nashira list, after getting priority on every single boss drop without spending any point, because as I posted earlier, boss drops cost absolutly nothing, would ALSO be given priority to AF mats ...
I see how you justify the reserved list, which is probably the main reason people have been unhappy imo. I can understand your reasonning man, but hell, if the shell you had before was crap, break it , make new rules fair to everyone, but don't make "Leader gets everything first" kind of rules you see in those shells with greedy leaders. All we saw is that your old LS had bad leadership and unfair rules, so you decide to take it over and... make rules just as unfair...
Also you keep saying that people on top of both list were those that worked the most. It's just not true. As I pointed out earlier it was damned impossible to progress on the list, unless someone misses a lot of run. If a homam piece costed like 50+ points , then yes, that'd be a fair system. And 50 point isn't exagerated, I mean, you earn 15 pt just for farming chips+ killing the boss. And there is like 10 people waiting on a queue for an item... Even 100 points per item isn't exagerated. 5 point is just ridiculous...
Homeless folk still wanting to do Limbus, come apply to Lamebus, we have a few spots open right now! You won't want to drop your pearl when you're in a shell this successful and awesome!
Shameless PLUG maybe. There's nothing wrong with capitalizing on a situation shitty for others. Hell, the job I got now I got it because someone I knew lost his license after two DWIs. I took his job and do I feel bad? Nope.
Arezael, I respect your desire to handle the shell's affairs in the manner which you believe is the most fair to everyone. You've done a great job of handling the shell since you assumed leadership after Celv's departure. I know there comes a time when one must break off and start anew because of perceived injustices. I hold nothing against you for your choice to do this.
However, your timing and the way in which you went about it were pretty disappointing. I think you could have accomplished your goals while avoiding much of this discontent.
Rather than waiting until the Ultima set you were holding was complete and simply not showing up in the linkshell on the Sunday it was planned to be used (while leaving a fair portion of the shell in the dark), you could have utilized the BK forum to discuss your intentions after the use of the boss set. This would have allowed input from all of the members in the shell and give a chance for the desired changes to be put to everyone there.
