Failure Rates

Firestreak

Solid Zoid
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Well I've been ridiculed here for stating I believe that the 360 Failure rate is higher than Microsoft's claim of 3-5% and people have come at me with some dumb logic, such as claiming my sample sizes are too small or biased. Well this is Gamestop's numbers based on their sold warranties against their used warranties.

30-33% failure rate.

Nearly one in every three Xbox 360 consoles fail, according to retailer reports

By several metrics, the Xbox 360 is the most successful console so far of this generation. Despite the startling pace of the Wii, the Xbox 360 still has the most consoles sold worldwide and the longest list of games and exclusives. For a gamer looking for online-enabled high-definition gaming today, the Xbox 360 appears to satisfy those needs.

One often overlooked factor when considering a console purchase is reliability, an area that is becoming apparent where the Xbox 360 falls short. Anecdotal evidence is heavily pointing to Microsoft’s latest console as being significantly more prone to failure than what consumers are accustomed to.

Microsoft has said before that its Xbox 360 failure rate falls within three to five percent, what it believes to be well within industry standards. Internet reports from Xbox 360 owners, however, suggest that the failure rate is much higher than that.

In an effort to gain a more accurate picture of Xbox 360 failure rate, DailyTech decided to poll retail outlets that sell the Xbox 360 and with it the option to purchase an in-store extended warranty. Out of all Xbox 360 extended warranties sold, we wanted to know how many were claimed by consumers with defective consoles, thus giving us a more accurate failures percentage.

After contacting several retailers from various regions in North America, the responses were unanimous: the Xbox 360 is the least reliable gaming console in recent history. Current EB Games or GameStop employees who offered information did so under strict anonymity, as it is against company policy to reveal such information to the public. Furthermore, our sources confirmed that EB Games revised its Canadian warranty policies during early 2007 for consoles solely due to the failure rate of the Xbox 360.

EB Games held conference calls for its Canadian stores informing them of the new policy changes and revealing alarming failure rates of the Xbox 360. “The real numbers were between 30 to 33 percent,” said former EB Games employee Matthieu G., adding that failure rate was even greater for launch consoles. “We had 35 Xbox 360s at launch I know more than half of them broke within the first six months (red lights or making circles under the game discs). Two of them were dead on arrival.”

Interestingly, Microsoft has acknowledged that the initial batch of Xbox 360 consoles made during the launch window suffer from below average reliability. In response to an overwhelming defect rate of launch consoles, Microsoft agreed to repair all machines manufactured in 2005 free of charge, and issue a refund for those who already paid for repairs of launch units up until January 1, 2006.

The three flashing red lights – commonly referred to in gaming communities as the “Red Ring of Death” – is a sign of an Xbox 360 hardware failure. The sign is apparently common enough that Microsoft has added an option to its 1-800-4MY-XBOX support line that names “three flashing red lights” specifically.

As a result of the high failure rate of the Xbox 360, EB Games corporate nearly doubled the prices of its one-year, over-the-counter warranty. While the previous warranty would give a customer a brand new console in exchange for the broken one, the new policy now states that the customer will receive a refurbished console instead. The move was made because it was becoming too costly for the retailer to give the customer a brand-new machine, which still carries a store cost close to the MSRP. The price increase and policy change wasn’t exclusive to only the Xbox 360, however, as it also applies to all other Sony and Nintendo consoles sold.

The failure rate nearing a third of all Xbox 360 consoles was found at other retailers too. A Best Buy customer service department manager, who wished to remain unnamed, said that failure rates for the console were “between a quarter to a third” of all units sold.

“We see a ton of [Xbox 360s] come back all the time. We strongly push our customers to buy our service plans no matter what they buy, but it is especially important for them with the Xbox 360,” said the manager. “It’s a lucky thing for us that Microsoft extended the factory warranty to one year, because we were having a hell of a time dealing with the launch units. Now we don’t have to deal with those broken [Xbox 360s] until their second year, for those who have purchased the two year plans.”

In late 2006, Microsoft boosted the warranty of all Xbox 360 consoles to one year, up from 90-days previously. For gamers who are out of warranty, however, a replacement or repair will cost Xbox 360 customers $140.

When compared against other systems, the Xbox 360 is failing at higher rates than its current competitors and predecessors. Former EB Games worker Matthieu G. said that the failure rates for all other consoles were not high enough for the retailer to consider revising its policies, and guesses that that most other console systems have a failure rate of less than one percent, including the PlayStation 3. Another EB Games manager, when asked if the store warranty was worth it, conceded that in the hundreds of Wii units sold at that location thus far, zero have come back as defective.

Despite the overwhelming evidence that the Xbox 360 is a relatively unreliable games machine, Microsoft officials refuse to comment on its failure rate. Peter Moore, VP of Microsoft’s entertainment division, said to the Mercury News, “I can’t comment on failure rates, because it’s just not something – it’s a moving target. What this consumer should worry about is the way that we’ve treated him. Y’know, things break, and if we’ve treated him well and fixed his problem, that’s something that we’re focused on right now. I’m not going to comment on individual failure rates because I’m shipping in 36 countries and it’s a complex business.”

Similar questions regarding the Xbox 360 hardware met with the man responsible for the design of the console, Todd Holmdahl. He too sidestepped the issue with the Mercury News, saying, “I would say we don’t have a high defect rate. The vast majority of people are really excited about their product, and that we are targeting profitability for next year.”

Asked differently about whether or not the Xbox 360 falls into the ‘normal’ three to five percent return rate, Holmdahl said, “We don’t disclose the actual number,” and “We don’t comment on that.”

No piece of technology, no matter how well designed, should be expected to completely free of failure. The key metric is whether or not a product falls within industry standards of acceptable failure rates – and from findings based off retailer-supported warranty returns, the actual rate of failures could be six to ten times greater than what Microsoft is letting on.

Regardless of what the actual failure rate is, there is consumer perception that the Xbox 360 is a less reliable machine than its competitors. That fact alone should encourage Microsoft to do more than just avoid all comments on failures and only preach on the wonderful experience of its consumer base.

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=7892

This is a large sample with no bias, it's all 360s under warranty so no one is more or less likely to report a failure.

From what I hear there's a hardware revision in the works that'll have better systems out by the end of the year, seriously it's worth just waiting for them to fix it.
 
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Something I find even more entertaining than the topic of this post is that people would still rather chance a 360 than buy a PS3.

(I have a bunch of these laying around so let's keep it up)
 
No one ever doubted it was above what Microsoft said, people called you an idiot for thinking that it was 60% based on an unregulated internet poll. Congratulations on proving what was never in question in the first place.
 
Considering Microsoft lied about their failure rate the internet poll was all that there was to rely on. Never said I believed it was actually the 60%, merely that the poll sways me to believe it was far above the claims on MS part.

Way to ignore my actual statements and argue against what I wasn't exactly saying though, kudos, you must feel smart. lol
 
My piece of shit xbox isn't reading my game, so I figure the percent to be 100. My study says so, fuck MS, I want to do AN!
 
Considering Microsoft lied about their failure rate the internet poll was all that there was to rely on. Never said I believed it was actually the 60%, merely that the poll sways me to believe it was far above the claims on MS part.

Way to ignore my actual statements and argue against what I wasn't exactly saying though, kudos, you must feel smart. lol
Bullshit. YOU were the one who kept throwing around the 60% figure like it was gospel. If all you had done was just say that Microsoft was lying about their failure rates no one would have disagreed.
 
Something I find even more entertaining than the topic of this post is that people would still rather chance a 360 than buy a PS3.

(I have a bunch of these laying around so let's keep it up)

quite true. while mine is still working, it is banned from xbox live. my friends is what i used to play on live, his was used 80% less than mine was and was newer than mine, mine got played day in day out for longer than his lived and is still being played on, offline of course.
we are sending his in this week to get that 2nd GPU HSNK installed so it wont die again.

in the future ill be buying a new 360 myself...and modding it right when i get it home with the new Ixtreme FW. If they ban me again...ill just buy another. cant really afford it like that...but cant live without the awesomeness of the 360, guess thats why people chance it rather than buying a ps3. something about it makes us keep coming back.
 
Alot is people either panic or just lies also fire. I had an xbox freeze on me, MS gave me new one. Then i got gamestop deal. Heard a noise and felt my 360 was dirty.. i kid you not.. brought it back for new one and renewed warrantee. Atm i am planning something different. I plan to renew this 360 now and sell it on craiglist to buy an elite... thats 1/3 failure rate, but will be counted as 3/3 for me. And i believe there are thousands of these same cases going on. Hell my friend told me to do it, since he had. In my honest heart warming opinion.. i dont give a shit what their % is lol. Long as my shit works.
 
Alot is people either panic or just lies also fire. I had an xbox freeze on me, MS gave me new one. Then i got gamestop deal. Heard a noise and felt my 360 was dirty.. i kid you not.. brought it back for new one and renewed warrantee. Atm i am planning something different. I plan to renew this 360 now and sell it on craiglist to buy an elite... thats 1/3 failure rate, but will be counted as 3/3 for me. And i believe there are thousands of these same cases going on. Hell my friend told me to do it, since he had. In my honest heart warming opinion.. i dont give a shit what their % is lol. Long as my shit works.
This was brought up before, but that got ignored.
 
This was brought up before, but that got ignored.

Well its a huge point. And tho we cant prove anything i am beting most the failures are bs. like 2 of mine are^^

Edit: and even with the majority of failures in my opinion being BS.. The failure rate is still rediculous. I give them credit for their support and adjusting warrantees tho.
 
ive had mine for a few months now, the first one gave me a few dre's during the first week i had it. so i took it back and got a new and have had no problems since. like osyris said, they can fail all they want but aslong as mine works who gives a shit.
 
Bullshit. YOU were the one who kept throwing around the 60% figure like it was gospel. If all you had done was just say that Microsoft was lying about their failure rates no one would have disagreed.

Bullshit on your bullshit. I threw the number around but when we talked over its credibility I didn't say I believed it was actually that high, only higher than 3-5% which some people on this board claim it's actually at. If I recall I estimated the actual rate to be around 25%. According to EA, for their 360s that they had in house.. 50% failed. But they were all launch 360s and I believed the rate had gone down, so I guessed a conservative 25%.

As for people returning shit that still works. Sure. But you also are gonna have people who have the gamestop warranty and mail their shit to Microsoft so they don't have to lose their warranty. It's like saying people pirating console games actually affects the sales of games. People who abuse the system are a relatively small number, way more people who just plain forget they even have an in-store warranty. Hell do you know how many people have high def TVs, 360s and/or PS3s and put in the old red/while/yellow plugs and don't even realize they aren't watching in HD? People are fucking retarded, I don't assume people who know how to and simultaneously would abuse the system make up a greater percentage than the retards running around like headless chickens.

PS: I think the most significant question is, if 1 in 3 break, how many working 360s are actually out there? I know they don't count fixed consoles as new sales, but I wonder how many people just went out and bought a new 360? Could be 500k easy.
 
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How much of that 33% are claimed by people who played off their system breaking through normal wear and tear, when they actually did something themselves to it(Dropped, Nyko coolers, poor set up conditions?) There is no differential listed, so theres still no actual record of truly failed 360s.

I know for a fact that in-store extended warranties generally don't require any kind of proof that the system doesn't work or even a story as to why it doesn't, atleast in Best Buys case.
 
Bullshit on your bullshit. I threw the number around but when we talked over its credibility I didn't say I believed it was actually that high, only higher than 3-5% which some people on this board claim it's actually at. If I recall I estimated the actual rate to be around 25%. According to EA, for their 360s that they had in house.. 50% failed. But they were all launch 360s and I believed the rate had gone down, so I guessed a conservative 25%.

As for people returning shit that still works. Sure. But you also are gonna have people who have the gamestop warranty and mail their shit to Microsoft so they don't have to lose their warranty. It's like saying people pirating console games actually affects the sales of games. People who abuse the system are a relatively small number, way more people who just plain forget they even have an in-store warranty. Hell do you know how many people have high def TVs, 360s and/or PS3s and put in the old red/while/yellow plugs and don't even realize they aren't watching in HD? People are fucking retarded, I don't assume people who know how to and simultaneously would abuse the system make up a greater percentage than the retards running around like headless chickens.

PS: I think the most significant question is, if 1 in 3 break, how many working 360s are actually out there? I know they don't count fixed consoles as new sales, but I wonder how many people just went out and bought a new 360? Could be 500k easy.
Yes, the number of people who would know how to abuse the system would be smaller than the morons; but that's the point. The morons don't know the first thing about caring for the system, so they break it and then just blame Microsoft. A dead system is a dead system, they don't ask how it died or if you did anything, they just take it and sell/give you a new one. Yeah, the Xbox was rushed to production and has problems, but a pretty sizable portion of that 30%, I'm guessing at least 10% and maybe even closers to 15%, is due to people being idiots.
 
Yes, the number of people who would know how to abuse the system would be smaller than the morons; but that's the point. The morons don't know the first thing about caring for the system, so they break it and then just blame Microsoft. A dead system is a dead system, they don't ask how it died or if you did anything, they just take it and sell/give you a new one. Yeah, the Xbox was rushed to production and has problems, but a pretty sizable portion of that 30%, I'm guessing at least 10% and maybe even closers to 15%, is due to people being idiots.

Percentage of failures caused by idiots is irrelevant, since idiots are a constant everywhere. Much like percentage of 'failure' caused by what are essentially scammers, since they're everywhere too. All that matters, ultimately, is the relative failure rates. If 360 is, in fact, roughly 10 times what the other consoles are, that's an obvious design flaw.

I remain indifferent to all the various consoles, but it's important to be objective.
 
Percentage of failures caused by idiots is irrelevant, since idiots are a constant everywhere. Much like percentage of 'failure' caused by what are essentially scammers, since they're everywhere too. All that matters, ultimately, is the relative failure rates. If 360 is, in fact, roughly 10 times what the other consoles are, that's an obvious design flaw.

I remain indifferent to all the various consoles, but it's important to be objective.
Percentage-wise, you're likely correct. However, 10% of 10 million is much larger than 10% of 5 million.

The amount of 360's bricked because of idiot users IS relevant, because the figure being cited is the total number of 360's that were returned claiming to be defective. Any amount of idiot usage or lying is inflating those figures, making it seem worse than it really is. The point of the figure is the 360 is an unstable system that was rushed to production; but any bricked systems that were NOT caused by manufacturing/design error should not be included in those figures, because those aren't indicative of a flawed/rushed design.
 
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