Final Fantasy 13 Hype Thread (the 2nd)

[Gerry]

1.3 million 360 units, so $78 million dollars. Based on the cost of FF12, most people are saying that the game probably cost between 60-70 million to make, even if they built it from the ground up for the 360, it'd still be profitable. But, since they didn't, the cost for the 360 version goes down enormously. It probably only cost them maybe 5-10 million max to port it to the 360; and that's being incredibly generous on the cost side.

The cost for translating and voice acting was nothing for the 360 version since they already had to do that for the PS3 version.

Actually they had two make two completely different engines for FFXIII, one for PS3 and the other for the port. Finally, let's put it as you say with the 360 version not losing them too much money (Considering that SE had to license out some kind of software for the 360 port as well as pay extra royalties to MS for multiple DVDs), the PS3 version still made them MUCH more money, especially in Japan with the price there being $100. Here's some further info for you which has an extensive in depth guide on the comparisons of each version:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-final-fantasy-xiii-face-off

Furthermore, I believe that with FF Versus XIII, Square Enix are UNDER CONTRACT to keep it exclusive to PS3, much like how Rockstar are under contract to make their upcoming game Agent an exclusive when they made GTA IV or L.A. Noire a multiplat instead of an exclusive (I forget which one it was, I know it was one of these two), after all, Sony owns a fair portion of Square Enix. If Wada decides to break that contract on a whim, SE, the whole company, will be in trouble, not just him.

I gotta say it, for 50 million (being generous there) it's a pretty shitty game. It's fun, well was, but 50 mil should and easily could make much, much better.

Most of the money probably went towards actually developing the actual engine rather than licensing other engines... 360 version software licensing aside, I think that FFXIII in the end was more about the tech than the actual game, it was made so that they would have a very firm grounding for future titles they make such as FF Vs XIII and FFXIV. Perhaps even FFXV, I think that's in pre-production, though no official announcement has been made.

 

[Xalioniaf]

I still don't get why it's ok for 360 to have exclusive third party games and not PS3 or even timed exclusive. I can't even really think of one at this point.

It's not about what is or isn't okay. Microsoft just likes to toss money at developers for exclusives and timed exclusives. It's business sense.
I think it works out, since companies like Namco Bandai have stated that they use the extra money they get from Microsoft to fund the expanded versions of their games that are released on the PS3.

EDIT: I don't think that Sony would've let the exclusivity of FFXIII drop in the first place if they owned "a fair portion of Square Enix".

 

[Gerry]

EDIT: I don't think that Sony would've let the exclusivity of FFXIII drop in the first place if they owned "a fair portion of Square Enix".

Let's put it this way then, Both Sony and MS own a portion of SE, MS asked for FFXIII, Sony were informed and made a deal to make Vs XIII a true exclusive in exchange for making XIII multiplat (Same thing happened at Rockstar). Does that seem a more sound way of putting this?

 

[Xalioniaf]

Not... really. I get the feeling you're just assuming what happened between the two companies.

 

[Tyrath]

Considering that out of the 5.5 million copies sold world wide, only 1.2 million were 360, I have serious doubts they made much of a profit on it, even with MS doing the advertising for it, completely ignoring the fact that it was on PS3. In terms of business, that screams extremely poor performance.

600k in NA and EU separately, give or take some thousand units, that's not really good, especially when it's FINAL FANTASY! Furthermore, what about the pirates who bit torrented the 360 version. That would contribute to sales and, and subsequently, money lost.

Like I said already. This was the fastest selling FF ever. SE just reported their best year ever with FF sales at the head of the pack. The numbers speak for themselves. You can argue all you want why 360 shouldn't get a port. But you honestly can't argue that they didn't make more money because of it.

Not... really. I get the feeling you're just assuming what happened between the two companies.

Also this.

 

[Dancingweapon]

@Gerry Still moaning about this? Can we move the hell on already. Also My Hands rocked.

 

[Gerry]

Not... really. I get the feeling you're just assuming what happened between the two companies.

And yet Michael Pachter gets paid to do the exact same thing, ZING!

:awesome:

In all seriousness though, considering with what Rockstar and Sony are doing with the Agent, wouldn't it be fair to assume a similar thing happened with SE on the ground with FF Vs XIII?

 

[JP]

@Gerry Still moaning about this? Can we move the hell on already. Also My Hands rocked.

Yeah, it's really not a big deal that it was on the 360. I wanted it to be on PS3 only too in the beginning but it really didn't matter to me. And whether they made a large profit or not, they made a profit.

 

[Strid]

And yet Michael Pachter gets paid to do the exact same thing, ZING!

Not to beat on a horse while it's down, but he gets paid to forecast off of what he knows, not off what he guesses to be happening. His little stop ins on G4TV are not his job.

 

[Elemmire]

I can see the point about people getting pissed on the development team if someone higher up goes "hey guess what, now we're developing for ANOTHER console" and delaying the release more and basically giving them more work without their approval lol. As for it going 360, I don't care. It'll annoy me off to delay another FF for 360 rather than just release the PS3 when it's done and work on 360 after and if the 360 version means the PS3 version loses some stuff, but oh well.

 

[Xalioniaf]

Well considering no real release date has been set, there's not really any room to complain about a delay.
I mean, unless you're working on FFvXIII's development. Which I doubt you are.

 

[Elemmire]

Well considering no real release date has been set, there's not really any room to complain about a delay.
I mean, unless you're working on FFvXIII's development. Which I doubt you are.

Think about it logically ffs, they're already quite along with the game, all of a sudden they're asked to make it for another system too. That's not really simple, it does take time. Which means that they either slow development on the one system or finish it on that, delay the release (even though the product is finished) and then they work on the other one. Now, it's more likely that while they finish one product and work on the other they are at least doing finishing touches (localization, voice work which can be used for both, done first on the one console then carried to the other) etc. I'm saying, it's far more likely adding consoles does delay the release date for the first system it was intended for. It's probably not as bad as I think (maybe a month or two), but it's still annoying. It just seems logical that adding more work will of course delay the release if they want them to be released at the same time like with FFXIII. And there were plenty of articles explaining how the 360 version did delay the PS3 a bit as well as remove some features the PS3 version had cause the 360 had less space. Again, they weren't what I'd consider important features (choice between English and Japanese voice tracks), but there were things removed.

I'm fine though if the 360 gets the game, I just wish they'd say "screw same release dates, whichever is done first gets released first" but ah well. At least considering they weren't developing the game on both systems from the start like other multi-plat games are planned to.

 

[Bajaratt]

Actually they had two make two completely different engines for FFXIII, one for PS3 and the other for the port. Finally, let's put it as you say with the 360 version not losing them too much money (Considering that SE had to license out some kind of software for the 360 port as well as pay extra royalties to MS for multiple DVDs), the PS3 version still made them MUCH more money, especially in Japan with the price there being $100. Here's some further info for you which has an extensive in depth guide on the comparisons of each version:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-final-fantasy-xiii-face-off

Furthermore, I believe that with FF Versus XIII, Square Enix are UNDER CONTRACT to keep it exclusive to PS3, much like how Rockstar are under contract to make their upcoming game Agent an exclusive when they made GTA IV or L.A. Noire a multiplat instead of an exclusive (I forget which one it was, I know it was one of these two), after all, Sony owns a fair portion of Square Enix. If Wada decides to break that contract on a whim, SE, the whole company, will be in trouble, not just him.



Most of the money probably went towards actually developing the actual engine rather than licensing other engines... 360 version software licensing aside, I think that FFXIII in the end was more about the tech than the actual game, it was made so that they would have a very firm grounding for future titles they make such as FF Vs XIII and FFXIV. Perhaps even FFXV, I think that's in pre-production, though no official announcement has been made.

Underline section: It's the same engine, it just had to be tweaked to work on the 360's architecture. It even says so in the article you've linked. Here:

Firstly, the Crystal Tools engine needed to be translated across to the Microsoft platform.

They ported it to the 360, they didn't build a new engine for it.

No one's arguing that the PS3 made them more money, it sold more units on the PS3, no kidding it made them more money. What you're erroneously assuming is that they lost money with a port that sold 1.3 million units, which is ludicrous.

Bold section: where does this belief come from? There's been absolutely no word about a contract regarding exclusivity. And you're forgetting that the CEO of SE himself has said that nothing is set in stone. He wouldn't be saying that, or even announcing his company entertaining the idea of going multi-platform if he was under contract to only develop it for the PS3.

 

[Xalioniaf]

Wasn't Crystal Tools made with cross-platform compatibility in mind?
I'm sure I read that somewhere. It even's being used for the Wii.

 

[Elemmire]

If it was, I don't recall it and I could be wrong but far as I knew they did set some time back for the PS3 release (as originally FFXIII was going to have a worldwide release as well, Japan, America, Europe, etc all at once) and it did remove some of the features. Nothing too big mind you. A few months wait and a few minor features gone I don't really mind (that is the features lost I don't mind, time waiting was a bit boo), but it was what it was.

 

[Xalioniaf]

Wikipedia tells me back when it was still called The White Engine, it was a PS3-only engine. When they announced the name change, they also announced that it was cross-platform.

 

[Bajaratt]

If it was, I don't recall it and I could be wrong but far as I knew they did set some time back for the PS3 release (as originally FFXIII was going to have a worldwide release as well, Japan, America, Europe, etc all at once) and it did remove some of the features. Nothing too big mind you. A few months wait and a few minor features gone I don't really mind (that is the features lost I don't mind, time waiting was a bit boo), but it was what it was.

You don't know it caused a delay, they didn't have a release date until after they announced the 360 version. They were likely working on the 360 version for a while before the announcement, so there's no proof of a delay. Also, nothing was removed from the game; there were no "features lost" due to them making the game multi-platform.

 

[Tyrath]

You don't know it caused a delay, they didn't have a release date until after they announced the 360 version. They were likely working on the 360 version for a while before the announcement, so there's no proof of a delay. Also, nothing was removed from the game; there were no "features lost" due to them making the game multi-platform.

Oh come on. They started the 360 development after they finished the ps3 one. So obviously it would've come out earlier had there been no port. More work = longer development time = later release. I don't really care that they did port it, but it's foolish to say a port doesn't delay a game just because no release date was given prior to the announcement.

As for the features lost, I agree with you. They cut out a lot of content from the game, but I don't think it was because of the port. The game was already 60+ hours. It was one of the biggest bang for your buck game I've played in the current gen. If a port didn't stop them from making the game so big, I doubt it would've affected anything else that wasn't already going to get cut out.

 

[Bajaratt]

Oh come on. They started the 360 development after they finished the ps3 one. So obviously it would've come out earlier had there been no port. More work = longer development time = later release. I don't really care that they did port it, but it's foolish to say a port doesn't delay a game just because no release date was given prior to the announcement.

Yes, it obviously took longer to make both games, but that doesn't mean that it caused a delay in the game's release. It could have come out earlier, but since there wasn't a stated release date, there's no proof that it was going to; they could have used the extra time for more polish on the game. You don't know what they were doing with their time; and unless you have proof that they stopped working on the PS3 version entirely after the 360 version was announced, then there's really no proof of there being an actual delay. As long as they were still working on the PS3 version at the same time as the 360 version, then there's no delay.

They didn't start the 360 version after the PS3 one was complete; they would have had to have started working on the 360 version long before they announced it, if only to make sure that they could port it successfully and not have to retract their announcement. It's true they would have been mostly finished with the PS3 version before starting on the port, but that's because they'd have nothing to port otherwise. Ports don't take that long, nor do they add that much to the workload; and that's coming directly from people I know working in the industry; and that's not even taking into account the resources that SE has at their disposal, which would significantly reduce the time/effort needed to successfully port the game.

It's foolish to cry delays when there were none announced. When the release date is "it'll be out when it's done" there are no delays possible.

 

[Airou]

Why are you guys arguing over this, who cares? Its on two platforms, does it really matter to you, the consumer? Are you not going to buy it anymore because it isnt PS3 only? The only people imo, that have a right to bitch about exclusives being scrapped for multi-platform are the people that buy both platforms for the exclusives (Like me), and I dont even care.