Flaming the flameboard - [Moved by Arc]

[Nyett]

Idk why but this quote made me laugh, a lot.

I laughed too, but I know why.

 

[Makelith]

That quote only applies because you deleted a number of posts, I don't seem to be getting my point across very well, so i'll stop trying and post in S&F if i find a better way of putting what i mean into words.

The quote applied before i deleted them, and it still holds true. Arc and I are more than happy to address any questions anyone has in the S&F section if they aren't just whining.

I do get your point, the main problem is, is that your point doesn't apply. If i didn't feel there was a happy medium where people can stray off topic but still talk the last few pages of this thread, including my replies would all be deleted, but they aren't.

 

[Bladewind]

Arc and I are more than happy to address any questions anyone has in the S&F section if they aren't just whining.

Was that directed at me? I didn't realize voicing an opinion was whining.

I do get your point, the main problem is, is that your point doesn't apply. If i didn't feel there was a happy medium where people can stray off topic but still talk the last few pages of this thread, including my replies would all be deleted, but they aren't.

Why then, is this discussion more appropriate than a discussion about how salvage duping, which is what inspired this flame, affected more people than just the person who obtained the "duped" item?

 

[Miros]

Was that directed at me? I didn't realize voicing an opinion was whining.

Why then, is this discussion more appropriate than a discussion about how salvage duping, which is what inspired this flame, affected more people than just the person who obtained the "duped" item?

You really should just consider bringing this to SAF instead of here. Normally things don't get solved in the FB at least board wise.

 

[Bavaria]

You really should just consider bringing this to SAF instead of here. Normally things don't get solved in the FB at least board wise.

There was a thread there about the same topic, which I don't think went anywhere either.

Isn't there a way to just not add posts made on this board to someones overall post count? That way the people who seem to think post count means anything won't cry? Then people can derail a "flame" into whatever it ends up being as long as its an entertaining conversation, and no one really gives a shit either way?

I can't speak for the server as a whole, but I don't come to the flame board looking for on topic, information rich, overall useful threads. If it starts out flamming someone for a bot, and ends off with people talking about pink rabbits, at the end of the day, who cares as long as the people posting on the thread were entertained?

 

[Miros]

There was a thread there about the same topic, which I don't think went anywhere either.

I can tell what I'm about to say is going to probably spiral into another flame but it's ultimately unavoidable.

The other thread about the same topic was what Make probably considered "whining". The basic part of that post that can really just prove it's whining instead of bringing up a solid issue is the

Why cant the moderators just keep their damn hands off the buttons and let the board live... that is really all i want for Christmas.

Isn't there a way to just not add posts made on this board to someones overall post count? That way the people who seem to think post count means anything won't cry? Then people can derail a "flame" into whatever it ends up being as long as its an entertaining conversation, and no one really gives a shit either way?

It's not the post count that is trying to be avoided here. PC+1 is just the term that has been coined to the posts that serve little or no purpose at all. Basically the only thing that comes out of the post is their post count was raised.

What the moderation team is avoiding when they deal with the "PC+1" in the flameboard is the posts that we saw that were along the lines of "/gets popcorn" or "lulz(letters)" and posts along that line. They add nothing to the thread and if I'm going to read up on a thread I would rather read the posts that added to it instead of have to skip over 5 pages of PC+1s that derailed into a "Hey, I haven't seen you in forever!" etc etc

I can't speak for the server as a whole, but I don't come to the flame board looking for on topic, information rich, overall useful threads. If it starts out flamming someone for a bot, and ends off with people talking about pink rabbits, at the end of the day, who cares as long as the people posting on the thread were entertained?

When Dino and I were on staff that was exactly what we were trying to get people to change. People saw the flameboard as a place to come and act fairly retarded and act witty and end up making almost every thread about your pink rabbits.

A good flame can get 30-40 people on here at the same time reading up on it. It doesn't take the PC+1 posts to get those users here reading up on it, it takes a decent, well thought out flame. That's what we had always thought and I still hope that people continue to bring them here. A great story along with evidence to back it up makes the flame in my opinion.

So anywho, the reason why I think Bladewind should bring it to SAF is because he may be able to bring forth evidence, suggestions, and a decent argument for the mods to review and actually think instead of telling them to change it cause you want it for christmas...<_<;;

 

[Lavi]

A good flame can get 30-40 people on here at the same time reading up on it. It doesn't take the PC+1 posts to get those users here reading up on it, it takes a decent, well thought out flame. That's what we had always thought and I still hope that people continue to bring them here. A great story along with evidence to back it up makes the flame in my opinion.

This is where you're wrong. Flameboard posts do not need to be well thought out, they don't need to even be thought out in the slightest, just illicit a visceral response. The best flames were mostly based off pics, not even text. Threads like "BoL ;|" and "OH stealing Kirin" were fucking pure epic hilarity, but the crap we see today gets forgotten like a fart in the wind.

 

[Rappa]

Remember during the "carebear regime" of Sculli when the flameboard (along with the rest of the site, really) was actually moderated in a manner that was less to help keep a topic on-track and more to keep the site clean of anything remotely offensive? Remember how much more that sucked than the current moderation which is actually helpful?

Remember how a large number of users got fed up with the "carebear regime" and created their own moderation-free flameboard forum called QCNN? How long did that last again? I think it was a month? After that, everyone came back to the "carebear regime" and the whole thing was forgotten. Even when moderation was FAR worse than it is now, people stayed here rather than going to a moderation-free alternative. Moderation is fine and it's here to stay. Whether you personally like it or not, the community of Q in general does. Feel free to create QCNN v.2.0 or whatever you'd like, but in a month you'll just be talking to yourself.

 

[Makelith]

Why then, is this discussion more appropriate than a discussion about how salvage duping, which is what inspired this flame, affected more people than just the person who obtained the "duped" item?

Already answered.

You act like me going through a thread and deleting every even slightly offtopic post is the norm, which it very much isn't. I was already cleaning up the thread of the 30 some posts about "I'm glad i'm his friend and not his friend" and decided to knock out the whole supply vs. demand on ingots since:

If i have to do a major PC+1 clean up of this thread again (unless i just lock it of course) you can bet that this whole topic of conversation will go away with it.

Also, just read Miros' post for everything else.

 

[Bavaria]

This is where you're wrong. Flameboard posts do not need to be well thought out, they don't need to even be thought out in the slightest, just illicit a visceral response. The best flames were mostly based off pics, not even text. Threads like "BoL ;|" and "OH stealing Kirin" were fucking pure epic hilarity, but the crap we see today gets forgotten like a fart in the wind.

I don't recall the threads, probably before my time, but I still agree with the post. Sometimes a screenshot will say a thousand words.

Sometimes me saying "Bladewind is an asshole: Discuss" could turn into a 25 page long hilarious thread. (Example of course, Galka's don't dislike Galka's. It's like a code somewhere.)

Remember during the "carebear regime" of Sculli when the flameboard (along with the rest of the site, really) was actually moderated in a manner that was less to help keep a topic on-track and more to keep the site clean of anything remotely offensive?

Nope, before my time. Just commenting on how this board is now really. I agree, if you had a mod in the past that would get rid of anything offensive, even from this board, then that mod was probably an idiot and the site is better off without them. But just because a policy is better than it was, doesn't mean its as good as it could be. That's all some folks are saying.

 

[Miros]

This is where you're wrong. Flameboard posts do not need to be well thought out, they don't need to even be thought out in the slightest, just illicit a visceral response. The best flames were mostly based off pics, not even text. Threads like "BoL ;|" and "OH stealing Kirin" were fucking pure epic hilarity, but the crap we see today gets forgotten like a fart in the wind.

I think you may want to re-read my thread instead of saying it's where I'm wrong. Evidence would be pictures in my opinion. Take a look at Dino's Ferque'd thread which I don't think people will forget like a fart in the wind. He tells the story, and he backs up what he said with pictures (evidence) to make the story more compelling.

The best flames do need to be thought out in these days. The ones who don't think about it usually find themselves being on the receiving end of the flame instead of the spearhead. I'd say users these days are looking for pure epic ownage. You don't get the ownage by just making a flame without thought. Most of the stuff we see today may possibly get forgotten, but that's only because we've lost the people who know how to make a good thread.

If you want to see good flames, then meeze, jamal, Colbwa, Windaria, Kinkerbelle, Peregrine, Blazn all need to come back and jump start the flameboard. Most people these days don't know how to do it.

I don't recall the threads, probably before my time, but I still agree with the post. Sometimes a screenshot will say a thousand words.

See above. As for not recalling the threads, they were before your time.

Sometimes me saying "Bladewind is an asshole: Discuss" could turn into a 25 page long hilarious thread. (Example of course, Galka's don't dislike Galka's. It's like a code somewhere.)

If that's the case, and you and Blade are just joking around then move it to a forum where it makes sense. Go to the lounge and make funny pictures or share your funny stories. This isn't the correct forum for posts like that.

Nope, before my time. Just commenting on how this board is now really. I agree, if you had a mod in the past that would get rid of anything offensive, even from this board, then that mod was probably an idiot and the site is better off without them. But just because a policy is better than it was, doesn't mean its as good as it could be. That's all some folks are saying.

And it's like I said in the other post. If they could give good reasons and backup as to why the PC+1s should stay, I say go forth to the SAF and give them good reasons. Don't just go "whining" as Make puts it. Solid evidence, respect for the other parties involved, and a helpful tone are what moves this site forward. I'm pretty sure the period where whiners got what they wanted on this board is over.

 

[Makelith]

but the crap we see today gets forgotten like a fart in the wind.

I don't exactly understand what you're getting at here. I'm sorry nothing totally awesome happens in game anymore. The day that a post i deleted is the reason a thread didn't become instant awesome drama wonderfulness is going to be quite a day.

Nope, before my time. Just commenting on how this board is now really. I agree, if you had a mod in the past that would get rid of anything offensive, even from this board, then that mod was probably an idiot and the site is better off without them. But just because a policy is better than it was, doesn't mean its as good as it could be. That's all some folks are saying.

And all folks are saying is that we should go back to how things were before. We've had a completely unmoderated flameboard before, and quite frankly, it was a joke. Threads would go very quickly from legitimate topics to sudden bear attacks at a moments notice. So we refined the flameboard guidelines, and are going from there.

 

[Tristam Green]

This is where you're wrong. Flameboard posts do not need to be well thought out, they don't need to even be thought out in the slightest, just illicit a visceral response. The best flames were mostly based off pics, not even text. Threads like "BoL ;|" and "OH stealing Kirin" were fucking pure epic hilarity, but the crap we see today gets forgotten like a fart in the wind.

This is where you're wrong.

You can elicit a visceral response by posting pics of 2girls1cup. That does not mean it's Flameboard material.

 

[Bavaria]

Solid evidence, respect for the other parties involved, and a helpful tone are what moves this site forward. I'm pretty sure the period where whiners got what they wanted on this board is over.

Just curious, was that directed at me? I didn't think I was whining, just trying to help clarify what people were saying. I suppose this would depend on what ones definition of whining is though. Disagreeing with a point of view doesn't always = whining though.

 

[Miros]

Just curious, was that directed at me? I didn't think I was whining, just trying to help clarify what people were saying. I suppose this would depend on what ones definition of whining is though. Disagreeing with a point of view doesn't always = whining though.

No, it was not pointed your way. Back when I started as admin, I did my best to take people's ideas and try to work with everyone I could. Basically anyone who disagreed I tried to make them happy. It didn't work to say the least. Towards the end of my adminship, it was only the people who could provide good solid evidence and reasons why something should be changed instead of just changing it.

There were a lot of whiners in my time. While disagreeing is not considered whining, you should always present an argument to persuade the other side to see your point. Telling them "I disagree" will not get you far. "I disagree, and here is why ..." is more likely to get a response. Of course, assuming the reasons you give aren't along the lines of "Because I said so"...

 

[Morcheeba]

Is it just me or does it sound as though some people want troll friendly threads??

Really that's what all this verbal diarrhea sounds like to me. Plain and simple?

FB with open trolling allowed. Because a Troll board wouldn't allow for flaming.

Bavaria was right in saying although policies may work better than prior policies, it doesn't mean the best policies have been found and established. Are we afraid of change? Yes and No.

TG/Miros/Make etc.. say bring the suggestions to S&F where they belong. Make your suggestions solid. Give back up as to how they may be a better solution to the current issues. How are they more efficient? Remember it's the admins/mods doing the legwork here =)

BW says back off the FB a bit.

I think back off a bit sure, don't let go the reins completely, but don't baby it either. Allow there to be some natural flow. Conversations DO have a natural flow where they tend to go slightly off topic, or lead onto other topics but with a relative base. Think about a discussion or disagreement over coffee with a group of friends, how does it progress?

Simplify your thoughts for crying out loud, not everything has to be a damn analretentive debate.

 

[Makelith]

No one has been whining yet. Let's just get that out there right now. No, voicing your opinion isn't whining. I shouldn't have to explain the definition of whining to people, so don't do it. If you ask a question with a cool head, present your arguments in a logical way, and have your mind opened to listening, and can accept rejection should it happen, you can expect the same attitude from anyone on staff.

 

[Audino]

Threads would go very quickly from legitimate topics to sudden bear attacks at a moments notice. So we refined the flameboard guidelines, and are going from there.

And one person highly responsible for that during the noted era is now a QCDN "liason." Lets hope we don't have to suffer through that again.

the crap we see today gets forgotten like a fart in the wind.

Which is kinda what you see here. Anyone else remember this thread was about Meastoso and him still being better than everyone else even though his cheating ass got banned? I do... sort of.

I don't really see the problem with locking a thread when it becomes consistently off topic. If someone in the off topic discussion was really generating conversation, give it its own spotlight in another thread and/or area. If not, lets just reduce the flameboard down to one thread and everyone can just use that thread for everything.

The thing that I think a lot of people that got tired of was the same people over and over again coming into the FB to purposely derail and to shit all over threads by turning them into groping fests or "hai lyke we kin typez silliez heer." Room for decent and somewhat relative off-topic discussion was allowed in the guidelines. It wasn't absolute. But when you have a thread and in the middle of it someone asks "Hey, how much are dusk gloves?" who really gives two fucks if that stays or goes?

 

[Airou]

No matter what state the boards are in, there will always be atleast one unsatisfied group complaining about something, ALWAYS. Seriously complaining and calling out mods is getting old, regardless theyre going to do whatever they think is best for the general community and theyre always constantly doing things to better QCDN as a whole.

It is what it is, so just deal with it, or make your own boards with your own rules. Its like complaining about your boss or someone above you at work, though its more extreme. No one is forcing you to work here, but if you would like to work here, you gotta follow their rules.

 

[Lavi]

This is where you're wrong.

You can elicit a visceral response by posting pics of 2girls1cup. That does not mean it's Flameboard material.

You're an idiot. We're in the FB which is meant entirely for FF related topics and... well, seriously, you're an idiot.

I think you may want to re-read my thread instead of saying it's where I'm wrong. Evidence would be pictures in my opinion. Take a look at Dino's Ferque'd thread which I don't think people will forget like a fart in the wind. He tells the story, and he backs up what he said with pictures (evidence) to make the story more compelling.

The best flames do need to be thought out in these days. The ones who don't think about it usually find themselves being on the receiving end of the flame instead of the spearhead. I'd say users these days are looking for pure epic ownage. You don't get the ownage by just making a flame without thought. Most of the stuff we see today may possibly get forgotten, but that's only because we've lost the people who know how to make a good thread.

If you want to see good flames, then meeze, jamal, Colbwa, Windaria, Kinkerbelle, Peregrine, Blazn all need to come back and jump start the flameboard. Most people these days don't know how to do it.

You're telling me a flame which consisted of a pic with ";| BoL" in /say was evidence? Not that that's even the issue. A thread in which the perpetrator is clear cut and blatant provides nothing for the audience. There's no room for a response, nothing to say besides "That sucks", "I'm sorry to hear", etc. That's not entertainment, that's a fucking funeral for me to express my condolences. You want a place for that? Go make a new forum called "Bad times", people can post all the shitty times that happen and people can spam the PC+1 "that sucks" crap all day.

The reason Dino's thread was popular wasn't because it was well thought out, it was the douchebaggery that followed. You had dozens of morons shouting in whitegate trying to get their rocks off by harassing some tard thief. Congrats, a group of players made an idiot look like an idiot all the while showing they're just as much an idiot. This is your improved QCDN? Yah, that sure sounds like an improvement to me...