Flaming the flameboard - [Moved by Arc]

Malagra said:
And again, I bring up the point that if they're going to die anyway, what's the harm in locking them? If the issue is dealt with, and it's basically over, why not lock it, if it's just going to die anyway? At the very least, it'd prevent necro'ing.
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Most retarded argument ever... if the thread is over on its own what is the fucking purpose of locking it... it will die on its own... if it gets necroed sure lock it but we are not talking about the validity of locking threads that are one year old we are talking about locking threads that have been around for at some times hours.

Lets take a probability perspective on your argument... which is more likely that someone may find something that they want to post in a thread that is a day old and seems otherwise resolved... or that someone is going to go and look for a post that is over a year old and bump it to be a dick bag... Or even worse there is the possibility that people are just waiting to write a well thought response to a thread on the flameboard instead of an emotional one that will later come back to make them look like an idiot.

Malagra said:
From another perspective, if you had a thread about something like AV strategies, and there was a 3 page interlude about Chocobo Racing, the thread would (and should) be moderated in a fashion to either remove the irrelevant posts, or make them their own thread. Works in a similar fashion in the FB. Really don't see how or why this is even an issue.
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If the thread is going slow enough that there can be a 3 page interlude about chocobo racing what is the problem... it is the flameboard and if the OP topic was good enough the thread will come back anyways.

Malagra said:
Seriously, can someone please present their arguments about this in a clear fashion that explains and supports their initial arguments? So far, the only actual argument I've seen against the current moderating in the FB that isn't just random thoughts put together in a disorderly fashion is Dejavu, whose entire argument and support is "no moderation ftw!" and that's about it.
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1. We are all adults and sometimes we need to get our feelings hurt or we dont learn from it.
2. Just because one person believes that an issue is resolved does not mean that everyone does.
3. Not everyone lives on this site and it sometimes is a few days between when people are able to check the site.
4. People should be held accountable for all their actions... The flamers and the douchebags they are flaming. (ie stop deleting posts)
5. The world is not all sunshine and daisies and blocking conversations about topics that appear to be touchy is not the correct way to address this problem.

Basically if a person deserves a flame about them.. let it happen and see where it goes. If the flame is not warranted the community will respond and judge the OP accordingly. Stop editing .. stop deleting.. the board will fix its own problems if you let it... much like the economy... oh wait... giant pork filled stimulus package.
 
I agree with deleting useless "pc+1" posts. I agree with splitting a thread rather than locking it when the topic takes a legitimate turn, but ideally, nothing would be done at all in this case. I disagree with locking changes in topic that seem to be the majority flow. This is natural and should be encouraged as healthy conversation. If someone makes a wildly off topic post, I'd say split it or delete it. It's gotta be on a case by case basis, though. There's a happy medium between unmoderated Flameboard and overmoderated Flameboard. I think we're almost there. Just need to fine tune things a bit.
 
Pompidou said:
I agree with deleting useless "pc+1" posts. I agree with splitting a thread rather than locking it when the topic takes a legitimate turn, but ideally, nothing would be done at all in this case. I disagree with locking changes in topic that seem to be the majority flow. This is natural and should be encouraged as healthy conversation. If someone makes a wildly off topic post, I'd say split it or delete it. It's gotta be on a case by case basis, though. There's a happy medium between unmoderated Flameboard and overmoderated Flameboard. I think we're almost there. Just need to fine tune things a bit.
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This.

Conversations will branch off onto other related topics, it's a completely natural course.
 
Bavaria said:
There was a thread there about the same topic, which I don't think went anywhere either.

Isn't there a way to just not add posts made on this board to someones overall post count? That way the people who seem to think post count means anything won't cry? Then people can derail a "flame" into whatever it ends up being as long as its an entertaining conversation, and no one really gives a shit either way?

I can't speak for the server as a whole, but I don't come to the flame board looking for on topic, information rich, overall useful threads. If it starts out flamming someone for a bot, and ends off with people talking about pink rabbits, at the end of the day, who cares as long as the people posting on the thread were entertained?
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I agree and disagree with this line of thinking. I think a loose stance on modding should be maintained, but I still think one thread should maintain a reasonable focus on the OP. It doesn't have to be a strait line, but within the scope of it. If people are talking about pink bunnies and the OP wasn't, I want it moved into its own space (but not deleted, so long as it fits the format of a flame-like debate).

Lavi said:
You're acting like the FB has improved and it obviously hasn't. All you've managed to do is clean up PC+1 which really wasn't a huge issue UNTIL people started fucking moderating the FB and I don't think it's coincidental either. You're trying to class up the flameboard and expect/want people to write flames like they're Harvard Grad's Dissertation when really, it's just a FB that needs no cleaning up. What you're constantly doing is equivalent to classing up a porn shop hidden off a damp, poorly lit back alley. Leave that shit be and stop meddling.
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I was going to make my own comments, but Arct was spot on and I couldn't have said it any better (especially the bolded part). Well, I have two things that need to get out there.

1) I think the moderating has come a long way since it started. If you followed anything but the flameboard, you'd see that at the very least locked flames can be made reopened if you take one little extra step, and I think the board has a log of deleted posts and they can be restored. (If not, maybe there is a hack/function that will mark a post for deletion within 24hrs so people can report why it should stay... of course your PC+1 "/eats popcorn" posts should be insta-deleted).

2) Speaking of Porn shops, if you haven't had the chance, find a "Castle" store. If Walmart were to make a porn store, they could look similar. I have never seen such a clean and well organized porn shop. Anyhow, this is just to show how silly arbitrary comparisons are so easily debunked. Have a nice day ^^

Arctyrael said:
Its a monthly cycle.


Eh, Lavi doesn't give a shit about anyone unless the person is a yes-person. That means Lavi doesn't give a shit about you. Don't give a shit about Lavi.


I dunno...


It is the FB, but you took the time to post so unless you consider your time worthless...
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(yuh, all said above, just quoted mostly for pure win value)

Malagra said:
And again, I bring up the point that if they're going to die anyway, what's the harm in locking them? If the issue is dealt with, and it's basically over, why not lock it, if it's just going to die anyway? At the very least, it'd prevent necro'ing.

From another perspective, if you had a thread about something like AV strategies, and there was a 3 page interlude about Chocobo Racing, the thread would (and should) be moderated in a fashion to either remove the irrelevant posts, or make them their own thread. Works in a similar fashion in the FB. Really don't see how or why this is even an issue.

Seriously, can someone please present their arguments about this in a clear fashion that explains and supports their initial arguments? So far, the only actual argument I've seen against the current moderating in the FB that isn't just random thoughts put together in a disorderly fashion is Dejavu, whose entire argument and support is "no moderation ftw!" and that's about it.
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The reason I would say to not lock it, is how can you be sure that a flame is done? What if people get bored of your flame after two weeks (for the sake of argument, say it was a decent flame). Well, in another two weeks the exact same thing happens, I'd feel better about continuing that flame than making a whole new post because someone else decided I was done with it. If all it was doing was collecting garbage (ie PC+1 or irrelevant info/flames) then lock it and be ready to reopen upon my request (or the request of anyone who has a reasonable addition the post).

I think what most people want is along these lines. Let us decide when we're done. One argument people have made in this post was that it saves on forum space (to avoid lagging it down with huge abundances of posts). Well letting us continue another flame could do that, rather than having to repeat all the information on two, three, five posts over the course of time (but I also admittedly don't know if there is a limit to how long individual threads can get).

Your other perspective is sound, for that perspective. The Flameboard is a whole other beast. While I don't have an issue using some of the same concepts, I don't think any of this is the real problem. The problem is people think that post that are more relevant are being deleted along with PC+1 and/or causing the thread to be prematurely locked. This is also Dejavu's argument (but Dejavu would take it to the extreme and says 'just don't mod it at all.).

I even think this is Lavi's point, she just can't get over (him?)herself in what (s)he has to say. Thus we have the 'if the cube doesn't fit through a circular hole, keep bashing them together until it does' level of arguing. Even though you can articulate, it doesn't mean the base mentality is much beyond that.


Ultimately, I still think we could loosen up the moderating, but I have to say that I appreciate that imo the Admin/Mods are making an effort to take a step closer to the middle ground, instead of being close minded power mongers (and this includes Miros despite him stepping down).

<.< and incase that reads wrong, that's a compliment to you guys >.> just don't get used to it.
 
It's such a shame that the "flameboard" was neutered in to the "slightly heated debateboard" it is today.
 
I'm starting to get more and more confused wondering why some people seem to think just because an issue is brought up that its going to be resolved in the exact way that they desire.

I'm also confused why some people swear off the flameboard and declare it the bane of Quetz, yet can't help but to make meaningless contributions every couple weeks now.

Javir said:
then lock it and be ready to reopen upon my request (or the request of anyone who has a reasonable addition the post).
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That sounds really arrogant and demanding. I think some users are starting to rub off on you. However, I can't see how any objection would be possible for re-opening a flame if it was noted you had something to add two weeks later. No one has ever done this though. Its a grand idea, but more people are just content to bitch.
 
is this thread for realsies?
 
Falsey said:
is this thread for realsies?
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No for "falseys".. heh

Yes apparently we should either dump mod of the flameboard all together and allow for crazy trolling or.. continue with a "Nazi regime" that's in place.

Really I'm just stuck on allowing the natural progression of conversation itself. The bullshit we can lose, no one will miss it.

I don't see any other need for further dissection of the practices of moderation. Everything else seems great imo.
 
Audino said:
That sounds really arrogant and demanding. I think some users are starting to rub off on you. However, I can't see how any objection would be possible for re-opening a flame if it was noted you had something to add two weeks later. No one has ever done this though. Its a grand idea, but more people are just content to bitch.
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You're right, it does. I didn't mean in that way, I only put it that way because it was more or less said that it could happen. In saying "me" I mean me perspective to whoever me happened to be at the time, not specifically me as in Javir.

In regards to me sounding more like certain someones..They might have rubbed off on me a bit, and after talking with Miros I agree I got carried away playing out that perspective, but I hardly agree in this post. If I didn't know "them" at all, I can't say I wouldn't still think that the moderation couldn't back down further... but I might be less vocal about it. At any rate, I could same the same about a few of you who formerly bore the "2nd biggest clique" titles. Honestly, I've also since stepped back and decided to reevaluate my thoughts this group as well, hoping I may have been too harsh... But if you really want to discuss this, PMs or a separate post might be more appropriate.
 
Well there's two ways to look at this..
You have people who are looking for the real deal, the actual fact flames where people don't just yell 'Hey you, you ass fuck you suck at gaming!"and that happens pretty frequently with the insults. You have people who derail on the flames who just want to get a good laugh which, sometimes is nice, but, sometimes it's just plain annoying and you want the issue to be effective and not an entertainment. You can pretty much say that 75% of posts are either two people who are not involved in the situation battling out in garbage or just people posting in randomness.
But the other side is, why shouldn't they? It's a forum, you can do whatever you want in a forum, who cares? Why should a moderator (one person-three alone!) decide when a thread is locked? Do they really have that much power to do what they want? Is it fair that you have no say to a person who simply decides what's right and what's wrong? Also, as Dejavu stated people don't read these 24/7 they should have the opportunity if they come on the following week to comment on something they believe could bring an important opinion and maybe sway an arguement.
 
Sorry for the giant chunk.. forgot to add spaces
Also I don't really have an particular view, those are just two sides of the arguement that seem to sum up what peoples beliefs are.
 
Javir said:
In regards to me sounding more like certain someones..They might have rubbed off on me a bit, and after talking with Miros I agree I got carried away playing out that perspective, but I hardly agree in this post. If I didn't know "them" at all, I can't say I wouldn't still think that the moderation couldn't back down further... but I might be less vocal about it. At any rate, I could same the same about a few of you who formerly bore the "2nd biggest clique" titles. Honestly, I've also since stepped back and decided to reevaluate my thoughts this group as well, hoping I may have been too harsh... But if you really want to discuss this, PMs or a separate post might be more appropriate.
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Lol, its not that important to me to discuss things in PMs or another post. Especially since aside from being a waste of time, I really don't care. Nitpickers will nitpick, those that think they're on a higher level than others will always fool themselves thinking they're on that level, those that have nothing better to do than to criticize moderation on a dying site will continue to do so. And its pretty funny how people are building the 2BC into something bigger than it ever even was months and months after it first appeared, lol.
 
Audino said:
Lol, its not that important to me to discuss things in PMs or another post. Especially since aside from being a waste of time, I really don't care. Nitpickers will nitpick, those that think they're on a higher level than others will always fool themselves thinking they're on that level, those that have nothing better to do than to criticize moderation on a dying site will continue to do so. And its pretty funny how people are building the 2BC into something bigger than it ever even was months and months after it first appeared, lol.
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Much of this is true for us both, and given your view I don't understand why you bother at all if that's the case. And regarding the 2BC thing, it means nothing to me other than a way to identify a handful of people collectively.
 
I was never intending to "flame the FB", and I have never said the flameboard should be un modded. Some people have misunderstood, some have just chosen to be ignorant and see another "mod bashing", I wasn't trying to be disrespectful to anyone, mod of otherwise. I was trying to have a conversation with Make that obviously didn't go very far and yes, i know it was in the wrong place that's been established.

Honestly I give up, trying to have a sensible discussion was a mistake on my part. Go ahead and think i was "trolling" or "flaming the mods" all you want, anyone who has actually read my posts should be able to see otherwise.
 
I used to come to QCDN and I could spent a LONG time just catching up on the flameboard. A lot of the threads were pretty funny, a lot were pretty informative (so and so screwed over such and such yay). In this day and age, seeing as FFXI has been around so long, there really isn't a flame we, here at QCDN, haven't seen in one form or another. Its pretty redundant and most responses consist of "blah blah get over it" "seen it before, don't care" etc. Thinking about it, the flameboard isn't that active now, not just because of the moderation, but because there are less and less topics that make a good flame at this stage in the game. The reason for this is experience.

The reason probably, for the threadcrapping and PC+1 hijacks is due to this reason. So more power to the mod team. Even if they were to stop moderating the way that they are, or even if they returned to leaving the FB "hands off" like it used to be, the glory of the flameboard shall never return!
 
Just to be devil's advocate here Eilistrae.. and I'm sort of curious myself, What makes a good flame? How can a couple people decide it's a good flame? Maybe the rest of the community thinks it's good while a certain few think it's garbage or vice versa.
 
In an indirect fashion Lego, your posts are on topic lol.
 
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