Lv70 SMN

Have you ever done anything with NIN besides tank? I've partied with a NIN awhile back that didn't tank one second of a battle and they were awsome. I guess asking you to think outside of the box is a little too much. What's weird is the fact that a SMN actually doing the job that SE set them up for is thinking outside the box by most of the people in this game.
 
thinking outside the box is fun :p i saw a japanese player play pld/rdm while we had a ninja tank and i was blm, with a smn healer a sam and thf the go along with it. OMGWTF no refresh, we pwn'd them so fast magic wasn't the issue. thinking outside the box is fun, but for a majority of the time and parties it doesn't work that way. :roll:
 
Yes actually I've done Nin/Blm many times and it was very effective. I've heard also Nin/rng can be very effective. Both methods outspend RNG by a lot to live up to their potential by the way, which is why you rarely see them. However I dont refuse to tank as a result that I find other methods enjoyable because I'm not insanely selflish like 90% of the SMNs out there. As SMN I was asked to main heal maybe 30% of the time and found myself most effective not surprisingly on those 30% because there are only so many avatar related things you can do that are MP efficient and with good gear you can do them on top of healing.
 
...OK. First off. Just because a SMN does not have Fenrir or Carby mitts does not make them a gimp. I didn't get my mitts till I was Lv.53 and Fenrir till Lv.66. Also, if you're not going to level past 10 with Summoner just because you don't have all the summons, I just have to say, in my opinion, that you should not even bothe rpicking up the job then. The summons are almost useless in the dunes because people are not that reliable on SC's to MB with Lv.II nukes, trying to SC with Blood Pacts won't work out very well, and avatars at that low of a level suck up a lot of MP. The equipment thing, well, I get tired of poeple saying "I'm not leveling SMN until I have all the 'required' equipment." Let me tell you something, as a Lv.66 SMN, all that equipment you want for your higher levels almost goes down the drain because you don't get to use it because you're stuck main healing all the time. I am very passionate about SMN and feel very strongly towards it because, along with DRG's, we don't get very much respect when it comes to parties. As for if that guy was a gimp or not? No, I for one believe there is no such thing as gimp if you can do your job correctly and effeciently. Carby mitts are only really good for farming or soloing and Fenrir is actualy not THAT great. Sure he's fun, but he isn't THAT awsome.
 
Wataza said:
Also, if you're not going to level past 10 with Summoner just because you don't have all the summons, I just have to say, in my opinion, that you should not even bothe rpicking up the job then.
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ding ding ding we have a winner in my case!

I respect all smn's because i dont like playing it. i've tried many times and only made it the lvl 2 before saying f it i got better things the do :wink:
 
Mages should have all their spells. No spell is "luxury" for a mage. What's just as bad as summoners that refuse to main heal are summoners who forget they aren't just a /whm. Cure III spamming is the biggest waste of potential in the game. Sure, the rest of the party is happy, because it's not them getting the shaft in job duty, but make sure as summoners you call out your avatars, just to remind the party, "Hey, I'm not just the whm you couldn't find."
 
The only reason Ninja tank is because one guy tried it, and they all saw it and said "hey, that's a great idea". I don't disagree with the fact that NIN are good tanks, but it's not the only thing they can do. They only tank because they focus on AGI and Evasion equipment. If they had STR, DEX, Attack+, etc, then they'd be decent DD. If they had INT, they could enfeeble and sub-nuke. I'd rather have a PLD tank taking 5, 5, 5, 6, 5 damage. Than a NIN taking 0, 0, 0, 0, 40, 40, 0 damage.

Back on the topic of SMN: I get it a bit more now. Understanding that Fenrir is more of a want than a need, as are the Mitts. I just find it kind of lazy that some people spend months working hard for their stuff, then a guy like this Lv70 SMN comes on, gets parties, passes him, and thinks himself greater than the guy who works for it.
I know a WHM that I met early on in the game. I helped her out a little bit with getting spells and stuff. Later on, she ended up passing me because she did absolutely nothing but level, do quests, and do missions. she's now Lv75 in like 3 jobs, and rank 10, did every quest and mission in the game. I'm still Lv61, and she started like half a year after I did.
 
Man, this discussion gets me riled up.

Why should you have to have all +1 staves on your first run through as smn and not your first run through the game as say rdm, blm or whm? HQ staves are far more useful for a rdm and a blm than smn anyway - why not wait until you get them to try to level those jobs? The minute I dinged 51 I had all my staves and austere on my first time through to 50, on SMN, granted they weren't HQ but oh well. Fenrir doesn't even really do much until 43 to boot...you're better off doing Aerial Armor or Earthern ward along with other BPs until he gets Growl/howl.

I do main heal as a summoner...serisouly what the hell else am I going to do during that one minute cool down on my BP timer? Stick my thumbs up my ass and do one blood pact every fight? *sarcasm* Yeah I'd really be carrying my end in a party situation that way....*/sarcasm* I may not have all HQ staves (I've got 2 and am working on saving for my 3rd) nor +1 gear but almost everytime I play SMN I get compliments on the way I play. "Wow you're a good smn" because I"m keeping up with my duties as main healer and keeping my party buffed with the appropriate blood pacts. I've got gear appropriate and even a bit higher than what I'm expected to have but it's definately not the best.

A good party member brings as much as they can into a party and does their best - going out of the way to make their PARTY better. That's right, their party! not themselves. If you want to be selfish and do whatever you want sub blm and go solo smn to 75, or better yet go level beast. The biggest problem I find with most summoners is they're in this game for themselves and god forbid you should tell them what to do that would help the party (and in turn themselves) get more xp/hr and in the long run have more fun.

This is a party based game - like it or not, if not, go play WOW.
 
Sabia said:
Man, this discussion gets me riled up.

Why should you have to have all +1 staves on your first run through as smn and not your first run through the game as say rdm, blm or whm? HQ staves are far more useful for a rdm and a blm than smn anyway - why not wait until you get them to try to level those jobs? The minute I dinged 51 I had all my staves and austere on my first time through to 50, on SMN, granted they weren't HQ but oh well. Fenrir doesn't even really do much until 43 to boot...you're better off doing Aerial Armor or Earthern ward along with other BPs until he gets Growl/howl.

I do main heal as a summoner...serisouly what the hell else am I going to do during that one minute cool down on my BP timer? Stick my thumbs up my ass and do one blood pact every fight? *sarcasm* Yeah I'd really be carrying my end in a party situation that way....*/sarcasm* I may not have all HQ staves (I've got 2 and am working on saving for my 3rd) nor +1 gear but almost everytime I play SMN I get compliments on the way I play. "Wow you're a good smn" because I"m keeping up with my duties as main healer and keeping my party buffed with the appropriate blood pacts. I've got gear appropriate and even a bit higher than what I'm expected to have but it's definately not the best.

A good party member brings as much as they can into a party and does their best - going out of the way to make their PARTY better. That's right, their party! not themselves. If you want to be selfish and do whatever you want sub blm and go solo smn to 75, or better yet go level beast. The biggest problem I find with most summoners is they're in this game for themselves and god forbid you should tell them what to do that would help the party (and in turn themselves) get more xp/hr and in the long run have more fun.

This is a party based game - like it or not, if not, go play WOW.
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Right once again. Would Swishiee be mad if we made out?
 
Sabia said:
A good party member brings as much as they can into a party and does their best - going out of the way to make their PARTY better. That's right, their party! not themselves. If you want to be selfish and do whatever you want sub blm and go solo smn to 75, or better yet go level beast. The biggest problem I find with most summoners is they're in this game for themselves and god forbid you should tell them what to do that would help the party (and in turn themselves) get more xp/hr and in the long run have more fun.

This is a party based game - like it or not, if not, go play WOW.
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If i'm stuck being the party WHM my party will get nothing out of me other than Cures and Prot/Shell. I'll Earthern Ward and Aerial Armor them in the begining but after that is nothing unless there is a break because apparently they wanted a WHM not a SMN so thus I just give them what they want. Any good SMN knows that a Blood Pact does better with TP, so therefore instead of shoveing your thumbs up your ass, you kinky bastard o.O, time your BP's so that your Summon has 100%+ TP and do good damage or otherwise for that matter a good Magic Burst. This being selfish thing you say kinda ticks me off because last time I checked the job I chose was Summoner and not White Mage. Sure my sub is WHM but you don't see BST's main healing or for that matter you don't see many BLM's doing it either! So why give Summoner the shaft?! Oh, I know, because we have a lot of MP. So what! if we had a lower Max MP would we be stuck healing as often? Most likely not. You think that because we have a lot of MP means we can keep a party alive with just Cure III, well, you got another comeing. PLD tanks are very hard to keep alive sometimes because of only haveing Cure III when a mob hits faster than you can cast your Cures. NIN tanks offer the best with a SMN healer because at least then you can summon and throw in a BP while the mob hacks away at shadows. Sometimes I've even had Fenrir use Eclipse Bite to take hate while the NIN catsed Uts. again then just voked it back and I would dismiss and rest or Cure. You say to bring your best to the party. Well, my best isn't sitting back keeping people alive with Cure III slone. My best is summoning and useing Blood Pacts to damage the enemy, enfeeble the enemy in some way, or help the party by providing a good buff to them.
 
Wataza said:
If i'm stuck being the party WHM my party will get nothing out of me other than Cures and Prot/Shell. I'll Earthern Ward and Aerial Armor them in the begining but after that is nothing unless there is a break because apparently they wanted a WHM not a SMN so thus I just give them what they want. Any good SMN knows that a Blood Pact does better with TP, so therefore instead of shoveing your thumbs up your ass, you kinky bastard o.O, time your BP's so that your Summon has 100%+ TP and do good damage or otherwise for that matter a good Magic Burst. This being selfish thing you say kinda ticks me off because last time I checked the job I chose was Summoner and not White Mage. Sure my sub is WHM but you don't see BST's main healing or for that matter you don't see many BLM's doing it either! So why give Summoner the shaft?! Oh, I know, because we have a lot of MP. So what! if we had a lower Max MP would we be stuck healing as often? Most likely not. You think that because we have a lot of MP means we can keep a party alive with just Cure III, well, you got another comeing. PLD tanks are very hard to keep alive sometimes because of only haveing Cure III when a mob hits faster than you can cast your Cures. NIN tanks offer the best with a SMN healer because at least then you can summon and throw in a BP while the mob hacks away at shadows. Sometimes I've even had Fenrir use Eclipse Bite to take hate while the NIN catsed Uts. again then just voked it back and I would dismiss and rest or Cure. You say to bring your best to the party. Well, my best isn't sitting back keeping people alive with Cure III slone. My best is summoning and useing Blood Pacts to damage the enemy, enfeeble the enemy in some way, or help the party by providing a good buff to them.
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I"m level 68 and I keep parties alive with cure III....even with a pld. Plus I keep my party buffed with Ecliptic Howl/Growl. Eclipse bite is just too fuckin unreliable to be any good, it misses like 50% of the time.

Frankly unless you're level 70 someone can invite ANY other DD to a party and they'd out damage you.

And you're absolutely right, you are a summoner but guess what sweety, you're not the summoner that Yuna was. Your avatar Melee damage is shit and costs you a ton of mp to do, your IV spells suck ass and make BLMs laugh, Eclipse bite is like playing with a DRK that has no Acc gear and sure earthern ward and howl/growl rule but those don't prevent you from doing cure III inbetween that one minute timer that SE gave you.

Summoners may of been DDs in other FF games but this is FFXI, not FF9, FF7, FF6 or any other game with a summoner in it. In FFXI you're a buffer/healer and a damn good one at that.

Are you guys really so dense as to why RDMs and BLMs don't heal and summoners do? It's because they can cast more than one spell every minute. BLMs do damage that is worth the MP it takes to do, RDMs have refresh and dispel (that can be used more than once a minute), they have debuffs and all that other great jazz, plus their MBs do more than ours.

If you want to be a DD summoner play the job the best way that would benifit your party until 70 and then play DD or shut down the game and go play FFX.
 
The problem is that your cure 3 does the same as a WHM's cure 3 for the same MP. However if you want to talk about dealing damage the SMN is thoroughly outclassed until only the highest levels.

You're trying to think in terms of "well I'm in this party, how do I put the most out of my job?"

However you should be thinking, "Well I'm leading a party and want the most amount of XP possible, what should I invite SMN to do?"

If the answer is anything but main heal, the question becomes "Why?" As much as you may enjoy those BPs they are going to be used once per fight. Then all you can do is take a step back and look how much dmg the other people do as other jobs. Check how much a dark knight will parse for throughout the course of a fight when you add up all their attacks. And for all those lucky BPs that = 2 or 3 whacks of what a drk can do, there's at least as many duds that hit 100 dmg. Then you're costing MP and they don't.

Now if on the other hand, I can main heal and spam eccliptical howl and growl, I take the spot of the WHM and add something unique they can't give, making me as a SMN superior to a WHM for, for example a ninja tank where the WHM will keep everyone alive so easily they have nothing to do. The important distriction is... in this scenario, the dark knight is still in the party because I take the WHM's slot not his. If I have to gimp myself a LITTLE by holding back on the most MP intensive and inefficient BPs to allow an entire other party member to join I'm WELL ahead of the game. It's the difference between inviting a SMN out of guilt because they been seeking all day long and inviting a SMN to actually get some seriously good xp.
 
Pompidou said:
Mages should have all their spells. No spell is "luxury" for a mage.
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You haven't really looked at what Light Spirits and Dark Spirits actually DO, have you? The only possible use for those wastes of data are for skilling up Summoning Magic and even then skilling that up is basically worthless anyway.
 
Light can cast raise at lvl 25 i believe. But that said its pretty pointless considering that RDM get it at 37...And there is the flaw that you will have to sit on your ass waiting for it to decide to cast it :P...Hping to windy from qufim at rank 3 would probably be quicker.
 
CubsWoo said:
Pompidou said:
Mages should have all their spells. No spell is "luxury" for a mage.
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You haven't really looked at what Light Spirits and Dark Spirits actually DO, have you? The only possible use for those wastes of data are for skilling up Summoning Magic and even then skilling that up is basically worthless anyway.
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hey hey hey D: light spirit can cast those shell spells (I think all) at later leveling :P kinda nice for a solo-ing SMN that needs buffs. I think one of them (I think light as well) has protect. Not sure what dark would have. They must be useful for something :P where's Svina? he could say better than I XD or liefe. Or does Sabs know too?
 
Yeah, they CAN cast those things. But it's random. And you're sucking MP up every tick you HOPE they MIGHT cast what you want. Even if they were able to cast Raise I/II/III on people (as many have claimed but has never been proven in any way) even then it wouldn't really be worth the X00,000 gil they cost.
 
Cubs does have a point they are well and truely useless...i mean they cost more than the avatars despite being worse than them. The only time i have ever summoned one was as a quick distraction for something i aggroed whilst i got a head start on it :P
 
Rinoah said:
Light can cast raise at lvl 25 i believe. But that said its pretty pointless considering that RDM get it at 37...And there is the flaw that you will have to sit on your ass waiting for it to decide to cast it :P...Hping to windy from qufim at rank 3 would probably be quicker.
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Just to note, RDM get raise at 38 not 37. We don't want people getting all excited thinking they can reaise with their RDM sub yet. :D
 
Sabia, I'm not saying it's required to have all the +1 ele staves, and everything else. I'm asking an opinion of the other SMN guy. Like I said, my equipment isn't the greatest either. But I have every WHM spell (up to 61) and play to my full potential.
And I'm not getting my WHM past Lv67 until and if I get a Noble's Tunic. In my opinion, a WHM Lv68+ without that IS gimp. It's by far the best body armor for WHM I've ever seen. 10% Cure Potency plus the 10% with Light Staff, and also 3 hours a day, 10% for Lightsday equals 30% extra. With Cure IV doing like 400, that's an extra 120 HP for free! On top of that, it also has 40 defence (decent), Refresh effect (amazing, even if it is only 1 MP/T), and MP+17.
 
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