Lyndis: the after-action report

[CubsWoo]

Remember Lyndis, that charming little RDM/DRK that told me I "Wasn't open to alternatives" and was rebelling against the cookie-cutters?

Fortune smiled upon me, as I was able to see this combo in action. Guess what, folks?

I was RIGHT. Hot damn was I right. Lyndis is an embarassment to quality RDMs and I would suggest anyone in the 50s keep her away from your parties.

Gear choices: MP was around 420, if I remember it right (Hume 52RDM/DRK). My girlfriend's RDM (Mithra 50 RDM/BLM, Silvereyes) has 542.
MND boost was around +9 - compared to +22 on Silvereyes.
INT boost was MINUS TWO (+1 from gear and -3 from the Bison Steak [w t f] she ate. Compare this to +20 on Silvereyes.
No Dark Staff for healing. No staves or clubs of any kind. Sword all the way!

Playstyle: Refresh cycle seemed decent, I'll give her that. Of course, this proved me right in the sense that the party told me 'well, she has Refresh so who cares if she melees.' Enfeebles looked like this:

Dia II (normally hit for 0 and wore off fast)
Paralyze (~35% stick rate)
Slow (~30% stick rate)
Blind (only saw her cast this 2 or 3 times, stuck once)
Gravity? Poison II? Never. Magic bursts? Nope. I'm really glad we didn't go to Kuftal and do crabs, because adding in Dispel to the mix may very well have caused her brain to shut down.

And that meleeing. Oh, the meleeing. Her swings, admittedly, did more than I expected (20-35, and no en-spells.) But this doesn't matter much since she had no +accuracy gear and parsed between 140-250 damage per fight. You know what else does 200 damage a fight?

1 MNK weapon skill
1 BLM nuke
1 bursted RDM nuke
1 unbursted RDM nuke + Bio II
2.5 rounds of MNK combat

We got about 2k/hr, if that. Mostly because the other members (aside from the WAR) were no prizes either (BLMs that overnuked; a WHM that meleed, nuked, and had the WAR pay for his chocobo; a 54DRK with only a Life Belt for +acc that I beat in TP despite being 2 levels below.)

So, now that I've experienced your breed of RDM, Lyndis, I can repeat with pride:

YOUR SUBJOB IS BAD, YOUR PLAYSTYLE IS BAD, AND YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD.

But 'meleeing is fun,' right? Be very, very glad you fell ass-backwards into RDM and the Holy Grails of Refresh and Dispel, because without them you'd never have leeched this kind of XP.

 

[Anderithe]

Damn... I knew Red Mage and melee was bad, but not THAT bad.

 

[deathsvengeance]

lol you mean she stopped subbing Ninja?

I was going to be in a party with her as rdm/nin as main heal. I was rdm/blm... I opted out of that party.

I later saw her playing DRK/NIN in yhoator jungle.. I figured all she ever did was sub /nin lol :roll:

what a disgrace to red mages

 

[Marael]

she was Sam/nin for me, stupid thing was we were in valk where none of the benifits of NIN sub were available yet, no dual weild or utsusemi.

 

[wolfskymoon]

I'm a very good rdm/war :lol: ,. Trust me i never let anyone die till my mp is wiped out.

 

[Uzor]

I'm embarrased -.-
I'm lvling my WHM now, and she won't ever get to join my parties if she ever catches up to me -.- The sad part is that 14/15 RDMes at my lvl (57) sucks. And they won't even accept critisism ; ; They just use the old "You're a WHM. What do you know? So shut up".

 

[Lyndis]

first of all i don't play sam, second nin is a fesible sub for drk, because you can pull enough hate off the tank to blink tank a little, which will lessen downtime. and cubswoo i don't know when you saw but i stand by my opinion of you being mentally challanged. i'm lvl 54 with almost 500 mp. and i'm trying to figure out if you are insinuating that i have partied with you. cause i never have. besides the fact that i haven't partied rdm in over 2 weeks, because i a have been doing quests, missions, etc... and who ever the whiner was in between about me main healing as rdm/nin, your just another ass who judges ppl by there sub jobs. Anderithe your an ass as usual. that about covers you guys. o and cubswoo you discredit your cubswoo>johnny cocrhan praise with this thread. because you didn't see me, but then again i'm sure johnny lied his ass off to get O.J free

 

[Lyndis]

ok, cubswoo. i had a friend tell me you also use jadey. as far as mnks go you were pretty disappointing. but hey you were to busy supposedly paying attention to me. first of all i was only there for the xp. cause you know what walking into a party, and getting called an idiot doesn't make you care a whole lot about the ppl there. so you wanna knock everything i did thats fine but maybe you should mention how much of the healin i ended up doing. instead of making it all a one sided bash, my enfeebs stuck more often the you "figures" represent. maybe if the tank coulda held on to aggro, i wouldn't have had to focus so much on healing. do you see that side of it no all you can say is how i didn't enfeeb enough. looking back on it i'm really glad now that i didn't die when i had to pump out all the cure 3's and 4's for you ppl. and did you also notice that i was hitting harder then the tank. wow maybe that was the problem. hum hate control problem solved. so lets blame the rdm :twisted: . and after you left and the tank left things actually got better. i thought the job of rdm involved more then just enfeebling guess i was wrong.

 

[Zaltana]

I'm a very good rdm/war :lol: ,. Trust me i never let anyone die till my mp is wiped out.

/slap

 

[Uzor]

ok, cubswoo. i had a friend tell me you also use jadey. as far as mnks go you were pretty disappointing. but hey you were to busy supposedly paying attention to me. first of all i was only there for the xp. cause you know what walking into a party, and getting called an idiot doesn't make you care a whole lot about the ppl there. so you wanna knock everything i did thats fine but maybe you should mention how much of the healin i ended up doing. instead of making it all a one sided bash, my enfeebs stuck more often the you "figures" represent. maybe if the tank coulda held on to aggro, i wouldn't have had to focus so much on healing. do you see that side of it no all you can say is how i didn't enfeeb enough. looking back on it i'm really glad now that i didn't die when i had to pump out all the cure 3's and 4's for you ppl. and did you also notice that i was hitting harder then the tank. wow maybe that was the problem. hum hate control problem solved. so lets blame the rdm :twisted: . and after you left and the tank left things actually got better. i thought the job of rdm involved more then just enfeebling guess i was wrong.

First of, I can barely read what your writing =/

Second, hitting harder then the tank is not impressive. Not at all actually. Especially not a PLD, because they focus on defence, Not attack. I could probably hit harder then the tank as a WHM if I had club/staff lvled =/

 

[Uzor]

And another thing, at lvl 50, your enfeebles should stick atleast 75% of the time. Heck, at 74 I have a better stick rate then you supposedly do.

And not dispeling is really not an excuse. When you melee it's even EASIER to notice when the mob buffs up, so why wasn't you?

Now, on to enfeebles. Any RDM that does not cast slow and paralyze (and dispel/silence. Not all mobs need those though), which are our single most important enfeebles, should be shot on sight. They are way overpowered when you consider how much MP they save.

Now, if you can explain to me why you had such a horrible stick rate on your enfeebles, I'll give you a cookie. Because my theory is that you never bothered capping enfeebling magic from all your meleeing.

And no, I don't usually flame people, but your reaction, terrible way to type, and supposedly terrible play style, is upsetting me.

 

[Farys]

(...)Second, hitting harder then the tank is not impressive. Not at all actually. Especially not a PLD, because they focus on defence, Not attack. I could probably hit harder then the tank as a WHM if I had club/staff lvled =/

The boy is right, Lynn. Next time watch your PLD's dmg ratio.
Now maybe, MAYBE it's a disadvantage to have Jadey in a so-so party because he hits so freaking hard, I don't see an ok pld or nin holding hate around him

 

[CubsWoo]

ok, cubswoo. i had a friend tell me you also use jadey. as far as mnks go you were pretty disappointing.

I dealt as much damage as either of our BLMs, hit every skillchain (even Detonation and Fusion ones nobody asked me to do, because I was getting enough TP to handle it) was able to Counterstance tank when the WAR needed shadows, and out-TPd people 1 and 2 levels above me - and I'm pretty disappointing. OK! (P.S. That's what 7 million in gear do for you. You might want to look into investing in some good stuff of your own.)

but hey you were to busy supposedly paying attention to me. first of all i was only there for the xp. cause you know what walking into a party, and getting called an idiot doesn't make you care a whole lot about the ppl there. so you wanna knock everything i did thats fine but maybe you should mention how much of the healin i ended up doing.

You mean the multiple (yes, multiple) times the tank or myself had Regen II on them and you went ahead and wasted 15 MP to have Regen I not stick on them? All the times you dumped multiple Cure IVs on, well, everybody and stole the hate? You're damn lucky you never died.

instead of making it all a one sided bash, my enfeebs stuck more often the you "figures" represent. maybe if the tank coulda held on to aggro, i wouldn't have had to focus so much on healing.

Do you honestly expect a WAR/NIN to hold hate against:

A DRK that pulled with Stun
A WHM that dumped Cure IVs at the same time he nuked with Holy
BLMs that can't understand the meaning of 'restraint'
And, well, a MNK that did more damage in one fight than you did the entire XP session.

do you see that side of it no all you can say is how i didn't enfeeb enough. looking back on it i'm really glad now that i didn't die when i had to pump out all the cure 3's and 4's for you ppl.

How hard is it to start a fight with the 3 major enfeebles (Gravity, Paralyze, Slow?) You certainly could have pulled those off before the WAR/NINs shadows started falling.

and did you also notice that i was hitting harder then the tank. wow maybe that was the problem.

This is an out-and-out lie. The tank was dealing ~500-600 a fight minimum, not counting skillchains. You were dealing 140-250. I think you got 'does more damage' with 'occasionally had a single hit go for more.'

hum hate control problem solved. so lets blame the rdm :twisted: . and after you left and the tank left things actually got better. i thought the job of rdm involved more then just enfeebling guess i was wrong.

From what I saw, your party turned into PLD RDM WHM BLM BLM DRK. If that's the case, you either cannoned your way to 2.1k/hr instead of 2k or you're lying - again. But that's ok, you had a chance, without knowing who was watching, to prove to me and the rest of QCDN that your job/sub combo is just as effective as a RDM with a more 'traditional' sub.

YOU FAILED. If I were you, I'd go level up a WHM or BLM sub, buy a shiny new club (and a Dark Staff at least,) and learn how to be a good little backline RDM. But then again, if I were you, I would have been backline the whole time, helping my party get meaningful experience.

 

[CubsWoo]

I think you got 'does more damage' confused with 'occasionally had a single hit go for more.'

Bolded in correction.

 

[Uzor]

I have to admit though. I did party with a grear RDM/NIN yesterday, or if it was 2 days ago. I don't remember the name, sadly. but it wasn't you.

However, he/she didn't melee. He used the dual wield from NIN sub to dual-wield 2 +1 wands in order to stick his/her enfeebles.

 

[Direwolf]

RDMs should not melee because all they do is give the mob TP, or they are letting their far more important roles in the pt suffer. If you want to debuff the mob and whack it be a DRK that is what they are for. Being a RDM drk is a stupid ass idea end of story, what does DRK give the RDM that /BLM or /WHM does not? Beyond less of the stats that count. Arhue with th numbers all you like but they are the facts and show the true weakness in the playing style.

 

[Elemmire]

RDMs should not melee because all they do is give the mob TP

YAY!! somebody gets it^^ Attacking monsters melee = more TP for monster = more painful SC like sickle slash = death. That's why on things like King Behemoth you DON'T have all the melee fight it you kite it and have melees get TP in the caves on too weak monsters and then the only contact melees have with KB is a SC and that's that. That's also how I've witnessed Tiamat taken down by the JP.

 

[Uzor]

RDMs should not melee because all they do is give the mob TP, or they are letting their far more important roles in the pt suffer. If you want to debuff the mob and whack it be a DRK that is what they are for. Being a RDM drk is a stupid ass idea end of story, what does DRK give the RDM that /BLM or /WHM does not? Beyond less of the stats that count. Arhue with th numbers all you like but they are the facts and show the true weakness in the playing style.

For the sake of both sides arguents, I just have to say that this argument is not 100% true.

Yes, it does give the monster TP. However, it does not really increase the ammount of TP moves a monster do.

all magics that do any form of damage give the mob 10% TP. I do not, however, know if Dia and Bio gives the mob TP too, I'll have to try that sometime. But lets say that too gives the mob 10% TP.

Also, physical damage that a mob takes gives the mob the mmount of tp you give +3%, which means that in reality, low delay weapons give mobs the most TP. So THF's gives the mob the most TP.

Now, if we do a little test.

Start of the fight;
PLD hits the mob. 6,5+3 TP = 9,5 TP
DRK hits the mob. 12+3 TP = 24,5 TP
THF hits the mob twice. (5+3)x2 = 40,5 TP
Mob hits tank once. 15 TP = 55,5 TP
RDM casts Bio II. 10 TP = 65,5 TP
BLM casts any spell. 10 TP = 75,5 TP

As you can see, mob TP is built up very fast, so in 2 rounds, the mob will have over 100% TP. So it really doesn't matter weather or not the RDM melees.

But something is wrong then, a mob could just simply spam TP moves all the time. Which is why the popular belief is that SE put in a little script that stops mobs from spamming them, by giving the mob the ability to
a) use them on a set timer
b) use them on special HP marks, so that when the mob HP drops below x% HP, the mob can use another skill.

This, offcourse, depends on mob to mob. Some mobs don't apply to the rule, an examlple of this is the god pop item mobs, who generally just loves to spam once particular move, like Despot or Faust.

You can try this very easy yourself by subbing BST and use the <pettp> command.

 

[Uzor]

oh, and I would also like to point out that I still don't like melee RDMes, but not because they "give the mob TP". It's because most of the time, they tend to forget their true job

 

[Mishaela]

Dia, from what I've seen, gives about 3% TP (to players, at least) =P

RDM/NIN is good, but in very few cases (primarily if they're the tank at 74+, and even then...)

RDM/DRK is good, but also in very few cases (only once they have acess to stun/absorb spells)

RDM/BST <3 so overlooked despite the massive CHR bonuses RDM get + Ogre Mitts ;-; nooooooooooo


But really though, if you're under 70 and using any of those, please, go play supermachoman and solo in Uggalepih or something.