Mages of Today

[Peregrine]

I've never seen a mage insist on getting any drops before. I've people from any kind of job ask a party if they can lot on one drop to help their crafting, but never anyone forcing a party to give them drops.

I'm not disputing that some mages are like that, I'm just saying that most aren't and it's not only the mages. One of the black mages in my party(which I'm posting right now while his replacement ges here), Sofuton, overnuked and pulled hate on a Greater Cockatrice. The Cockatrice then used Hammer Beak and one-shotted him, and the prick just warped after he got raised.

That most aren't is a GIVEN. It's time to move on from being able to point out generalizations to actually being able to not only point them out, but to recognize that they serve a purpose. A 55 year old with chest pain and fatigue is not a 23 year-old with chest pain and fatigue. Generalizations serve roles within a useful context. You haven't seen people demand drops. I HAVE, and it was a white mage, and that he was a white mage was ENTIRELY significant. It's time to mature and move on from the middleschool mentality that talking about a group in a general way=teh bad. Sometimes it is a most useful tool.

 

[alanon]

Yeah, and that's probably why they got nerfed. When I leave groups out, it's because they're not on the discussion table, not because they don't exist. There are meleers behaving badly, but if you try to claim that there aren't stuck-up mages out there playing mage because of the attention and accomodation that it gives, them...well you can't. If you try to claim that a mage can't get by and get up by being absolutely terrible...we all know it happens. It's definitely a factor that some play blm and rdm and whm for--to get well in the game without being exceptional, because the job is inherently exceptional with no effort required.

You can't leave it up to the fanbase to not flock to imbalance. They can't refrain as a group. The prize is too large. That is why balance is so important. It has nothing to do with being jealous. I've know for over a year that the best moneymaking job isn't thief. It's blm. Blms get KS and BC invites when thieves are left to sit on their seals if they don't create their own opportunities. Blms get invited to group campings while crickets chirp when a thief asks to go. Blms will hit 75 before thieves hit 35. They get a LS vermillion cloak and god gloves when the thief is still out in the dunes camping their pin alone. I've known that the fastest way to L75, merits, and endgame success is...blm, whm, rdm, brd, rng. I've known that if you want the most attention and the most pandering with the least amount of work, you don't level what I've leveled. I'm not jealous. That's just how things work with this player population and these types of games. I would never play blm for the stool to stand on. I don't need a stool to stand on.

Again, there are offenders everywhere all across the boards, but this is a topic about mages being mages because they know they can be invitable and includable no matter how mediocre they are in terms of tactic and merit. There is nothing wrong with generalizations so long as they don't progress to stereotypes. One gives you a good frame of reference for basic probabilities. The other impedes your judgment to the point of hurting you and others.

There are good mages, and there are bad mages. Some bad mages are use their job as an excuse to be elitist and stuck up when they're really nothing impressive. They just chose the imbalanced job. To wave it off as people making a generalization about your job is the cowardly way out. We all know there are players who play their job for one reason: it gets them the most attention for the least amount of effort. There's nothing wrong with that generalization, because you can't sit there and claim that that generalization doesn't specifically and credibly apply to mages, black mages especially.

Are all black mages stuck up job-users? No, welcome to highschool-level grade discussions where people don't hawk the hack stereotyping bit, and where making generalizations has merit in discussion. You don't see a samurai insisting that they lot all the silk and coccoons that the party gets in the nest. You see a white mage doing it. Are you going to negate an entire discussion as to why that happens just because it's a generalization? I hope not, because to do so is naive.

Pere, you are so close to being right it almost hurts me to admit it. Only a couple of things I disagree on. First, this isn't happening because "fanboys" are flocking to an imbalance, it happens because of a lack of people playing the job. For instance, when I leveled my first job, you were at the mercy of the Whm till lvl40ish, then to the mercy of the Rdm/Brd 40-75. Mainly becaause there were very few playing those jobs and party leaders were litterally camping the search function looking for one. Most put up with the attitudes because they felt they didn't have a choice. I have felt for a long time that SE could fix a lot by giving a refresh pact to Smns. The table is starting to turn though. I've noticed a lot lately that a healer has been easier to find than a tank job. Unfortunately, I've now met some Nins with the old Whm attitude.

Secondly, thieves are almost always looked for when camping stuff.

Lastly, I agree with your list of jobs that quickly get to 75, but you need to add Nin and Pld to that list.

 

[Davion]

So... you said you were pissed off at my rant, yet you basically agreed with everything I said.

On a completely unrelated topic, what do you Americans do for your "Veterans' Day"?

Apparently you read something in my reply I didnt. I wasnt mad, I was merely stating what I stated.

 

[Peregrine]

It doesn't happen because of a lack of a job. It's because the "in" jobs perpetuate the wrong idea that you "need" a red mage. You "need" a blm.

 

[Peregrine]

Check the last census on POL. It has a nice breakdown of main jobs played controlling for mules. It pretty well reflects how useful each job is seen, proving that it is not a lack of people who play the job (except bard and smn) IIRC

 

[hellstorm]

Where do I begin. This is like the 129301701750175th post about what mages should be doing.

:: takes a breath::

1. Maybe those WHMs didnt know INT doesnt help them, giving them the benefit of the doubt. White Mages that wear 99% or more of only INT equips to a party need to quit now. I've seen that about 5 times. You WILL NOT BE NUKING with your BLM sub job. You are in that party to heal and buff. I'll have to admit when I'm on my WHM I will Magic Burst with Banish III for the sake of dmg and raising my shitty Divine Magic skill but I only truly do that during an EXP party with a NIN tank cause I dont have to focus on curing that much. Just Haste and Regen and a few Curagas.

2. On my RDM, my refresh cycle is usually, RDM, PLD, WHM, BLM, DRK. Where you got that cycle from beats the hell out of me. This is the cycle other RDMs have given me to use.

3. Not to sound heartless but no mage in this game is obligated to Raise you or cure you if they see you dead, but you're right it's the nice and right thing to do if they can do it. I've been in parties where I"ve seen lots of dead ppl and my party leader told me not to do it cause 1 it was too dangerous for me to do it cause of magic aggro and sight aggro and we didnt have time for me to stop cause I need to be on the bird for where we were going and it would otherwise take forever by foot. Yall know me I throw Cures everywhere and Raise all the time if I see you.

4. MND, that a debatable topic, I dont care about MND unless I"m RDM, that's what effect enfeebling I hear. My MP is what I care about on WHM.

5. Dont hate on Elvaan BLMs. I know serveral really good Elvaan BLMs (ex. Crosis, Heilger, Caerloc, Calbrone, Aldiel, Emperordragon) With the right equipment Elvaan BLMs are formitable in EXP parties. I'm a Hume BLM myself, I have more MP that Elvaan BLMs but I've been i parties where they had better gear than mine and outdamaged me by a few 20-30 points. Now as far as that Elvaan BLM Passions mentioned casting Thundaga II and Burst, that's just plain stupid. 3 Pages worth of spells in the BradyGames guide and that's all she's casting? that's dumb.

Have a nice day !

Lemme just say as a Blm, I don't believe i need to be anywhere near the front of a Refresh Cycle Priority. I would personally think Rdm>Pld>Whm>Blm>Drk. But I don't have refresh, so I wouldn't know.

1) most game int is magic attack mind <or wisdom which it called in many games> is magic def. this could just be a simple oversite by them or they either 2 lazy or broke to buy armor for there whm sub.

2)the cycle you have up there is normally the cycle i do to unless the whm is having trouble keeping mana and the pal is not then i switch macro around. Rdm will always refresh them self frist reason why they are just wating mana if they dont also give you a landmark of time when you need to start the refresh cycle over agian. now the rdm mension above could only mean 2 thing either [a] he didnt bother to propare macros so he casteing refresh on all the magic users in order of his list or he just does not understand the consept on mana prioity. As far as not getting to the person quick enough to there delite tough, if a rdm is lagging on his refresh it useally because he busy doing something else or refreshing someone else, telling them to refresh you 20 time in 30 period will not make his spells go any faster.

3) the obligation to help. You are piss because someone did not jump off there chicken while running though dunes. you are pissed because you died and he didnt raise you or didnt cure you. well tough me being a rdm I try help other but im not going to get of my birdy that i just payed abou 2k for to help a lvl 12 war that decided not to hp in dunes. there be time ill get a tell saying why didnt you help me. ill be like i did not see you. never occured to you maybe the person did not see you fighting that mob or you laying dead but if you give me a tell and im not to far away most time raiser will be happy to help. what that old saying "ask and you shall recive"


4) you try to keep 7 diffent set of armor and see if you wont make sacrifices here and there. At lower lvl it dont really make to much a diffent. ive seen whm sub war why because more def mean they will stay alive alittle longer same reason the blm was wearing def gear. also money a big issue not everyone buy gil or have the load of time to farm.

5) the race thing is THE BIGGEST COPout ive EVER SEEN!!! A taru should not be a war, a mithra should not be a pally, a galka should not be a whm, and elven should not be a blm. are you serious >.> Ive seen some great elve blm
some fantastc galka whm. and some the best pally i know are mithra. There is + and - to every race so elven dont have great int or mp they make gear for that. Some people choice to have 5 diffent char me I want to lvl every job with my mithra. If you got a problem with that tough. Just dont start crying when a taru nin or a mithra pally start whoopen that a$$ better then you ever could Xp

 

[Kensou]

1) most game int is magic attack mind <or wisdom which it called in many games> is magic def. this could just be a simple oversite by them or they either 2 lazy or broke to buy armor for there whm sub.

MND is to Divine Magic as INT is to Elemental Magic, so more MND = better banish, Holy..., I've seen some near 900 Banish III MBs on IT mobs

my 2 cents

 

[hellstorm]

MND is to Divine Magic as INT is to Elemental Magic, so more MND = better banish, Holy..., I've seen some near 900 Banish III MBs on IT mobs

my 2 cents

I know that was making the point that if someone was to start the game without any help it real easy to think this. Ive played rdm long time
I have balance of int and mind items along with +enfeb items

 

[Malagra]

Isn't this something like the 6th time Thnikkaman has made a post, said one thing in the initial post, and then went on to say something like "you're obviously not understanding me" and go on for something different?
Anyone else recognizing a pattern here?

Anyway, there isn't a lack of people playing BLM, it's that ingrained thought that you NEED a BLM to do well. Admittedly, it does go a lot smoother when there is a MB-er, but it's not necessary.
It's like ranger pre-patch. To be a good ranger, it still took some still (not as much as it does now, but it did take skill), to be a decent ranger it took 0-very small amounts of skill. Rangers did/do lots of damage, and can skillchain with most of your typical DD. So it was generally a preferred slot in a party.

Black Mage does take skill to be a good BLM. To be a decent BLM you have to.... cast spells. Forgive me, but that doesn't sound like it's particularly challenging or takes a lot of skill. Now that Ranger requires some skill to be decent, people have moved to BLM, and are just throwing money at it the same way people used to throw money at rangers.

I wonder though, if any of the people Thnikka is complaining about are people he's PL'd. Wouldn't that just be poetic justice?

 

[Thnikkaman]

3) the obligation to help. You are piss because someone did not jump off there chicken while running though dunes. you are pissed because you died and he didnt raise you or didnt cure you. well tough me being a rdm I try help other but im not going to get of my birdy that i just payed abou 2k for to help a lvl 12 war that decided not to hp in dunes. there be time ill get a tell saying why didnt you help me. ill be like i did not see you. never occured to you maybe the person did not see you fighting that mob or you laying dead but if you give me a tell and im not to far away most time raiser will be happy to help. what that old saying "ask and you shall recive"

It's one thing to hop off a chocobo you got at like the Crag of Mea or something for like 3000g, it's another to simply run past a guy resting at like 10% health. What's it gonna hurt to give a guy a Cure or Cure II, if it's gonna take no more than like 3 seconds of your time and (oh no!) 24 mp.

And Malagra, I notice how you're right about how I say that, it's because people don't read all of what I post, just the stuff they want to or don't want to hear. Maybe I should start talking in a more primitive means of typing then? Maybe making my posts like 2 lines long? Hmm?

 

[Shaunessy]

Personally I feel that BRDs and THFs are more stuck up than any mage in the game, and why can't WHMs lot on drops? I'f I'm ever involved with some sort of camping and they say I can't lot cause I'm a WHM I just disband right there. It's horseshit to say that type of thing to someone helping you camp something.

 

[Bluefrost]

So when the taru pulls hate with his 1300 damage nuke over the elvaans 1250 nuke and dies, who is still standing to cast another spell? Granted you were comparing low lvl blms, but dont fault the race just because they were stupid to not wear the right gear for the job.

What low level black mage can deal that kind of damage.

 

[Uzor]

Another example would be Kirin the other day.

What kind of taru-BLM can survive a 900 tail smash? I know Elvaans can, and did

 

[Blabj]

There's also some around the ant that drops shaman cloak, but there is a link risk there too, and only one or two good spots without ants.

The less said about that guy the better.... We were there a long time, about 30 seconds before I was gonna warp II everyone that was helping me try to get his cloak (it looks sexay, allright?!), the placeholders were due to spawn, so I held out just incase.... Well, the pic says the rest:

 

[Blabj]

Ew, no edit button:

Thanks for everyone that came by the way, Grifftron, Badger, DT, X while he was there I owe you guys

 

[Thnikkaman]

Another example would be Kirin the other day.

What kind of taru-BLM can survive a 900 tail smash? I know Elvaans can, and did

I've never fought Kirin (Lv61 WHM still), but something along the lines of "Tail Smash" sounds like a one-target attack. If it's an AoE, it shouldn't hit the mage anyway. If everyone's good in the party and does their jobs correctly, the BLM shouldn't get hit anyway. That's where you Elvaan people come in. Hit the mob, keep the hate.
(...It's why I still say that PLD are the best tanks in a party with a BLM. Not only can they hold hate like 10x better with cure and damage, but they can also Cover for when the BLM does like 1300+ damage.)

 

[Mirewen]

Kirin can bind and Stonega IV. Mages get hit at Kirin all the time. I got bound (on my BLM/RDM so no erase) and he then Quake'd me. Didn't die, but that's because I have over 900 HP.

 

[Mirewen]

Edit: He is also known to Astral Flow... man, that one is a bitch.

 

[Fellina]

Standard XP party rules for hate and such don't hold for most gods and HNM's. After all, how many xp parties have their tanks kiting the mob, or MNK's charging up Chi Blasts with like 20 boosts? heh

 

[Thnikkaman]

I wouldn't know, I've never done a God or HNM, and I don't plan to for a long time. And even though a Taru BLM might get owned versing Kirin, he wouldn't be the only one to die. Every race has it's upsides and downsides.
Hume: Moderate all-round stats, ridiculously high CHR
Elvaan: Great STR and MND, though low MP and INT
Taru: High AGI, INT, MP, low STR, VIT, and HP
Mithra: High all-round stats, low CHR
Galka: High VIT and HP, low MP, DEX, AGI, and pretty much everything lol