Mages of Today

[Elysian]

A few things, brd and requiem, not needed unless you are in long fights, it's basically like saying a blm is a noob cause they don't cast poison II during fights that last less than a minute. And long fights with bard in exp aren't that common.

Why would a thief NOT use SATA 32 seconds before a mob arrives at camp? SA and TA are on a 60 second timer, so in a 50 second fight, if they wait til the mob makes it to camp, that's one SATA for the fight. If they use it 32 seconds before the mob makes it to camp, that's 2 SATA's they can land that fight.

The Requiem was a typo, that was supposed to be a Finale.

The SATA reference may just have been badly remembered reference to recast timers on my part. I thought they wear off after 30 seconds, and I have been in all too many parties with thiefs who continually SATA'd too early before the fight, then didn't have SATA up after the first voker had already voked. That annoys me, because as a WHM, it seems to take 10+ seconds for the tank to realize that SATA didn't go off, and attempt to grab hate from the DD who, at that point, is busy killing my mp.

Sorry for the mixup. '-';

 

[Mirewen]

Yay for totally generalized comments insulting everyone who plays a mage!

 

[Trippyhippy]

i think its funny that you think rdm needs a refresh order, and it has to be in that order or they suck ass.
when i play rdm i go down the line of party members, i start with haste on myself and then refresh and then haste the next person refresh the next, ect, ect. if they need haste they get if they need refresh they get it. i dont care if its a drk first they get refresh in the order of my party members. once its up it never drops, haste or refresh, unless there is a long down time in the party. so the whole rdm>pld>whm>blm>other makes me laugh cause if you keep up on refresh, the order shouldn't matter.

If I was in a party with you and saw you cast refresh on a Drk when the whm didn't have it, I would let you know you weren't performing your job optimally.

I guess it's not neccesarily the casting order as much as it is the order of importance.
Rdm first because you can't cast Spells with no MP
Pld next so he can keep hate without running out of MP
Whm next so noone dies.
Blm after that because it won't hurt for a blm to sit during a battle, it allows the tank time to establish some hate.
and noone else really maters as faras refresh goes. Give it to a Drk once every 3 fights or so.

 

[Cythe]

The order is important because when you're down to your last licks of MP, it's going to hurt you if the DRK got refresh and the WHM didn't. The order also keeps things flowing more efficiently when you start partying. DRK isn't going to use MP immediately, whereas PLD is. Refreshing the PLD second is a great help because he'll immediately expend the 20 something MP casting Flash if he's a good tank. Refresh helps him/her immediately.

 

[Thnikkaman]

Yay for totally generalized comments insulting everyone who plays a mage!

Dammit people. This is gonna be... what, the fourth time I've had to tell you all that I'm not flaming every single mage in the game. I'm a white mage. Who the hell flames themself? I'm flaming all the n00b mages in the game, which basically seems to be dramatically increasing these days. Hence the name Mages of Today.

Anyway, on the topic of the RDM refresh thing... Going down the list is kinda stupid. I like the RDM > PLD > WHM > BLM thing. But really, as long as my refresh is kept going moderately well, I like it. The real problem is more than half the RDM's I've partied with had to be told to refresh. I realise it's not their only job, but it's a big chunk of it. RDM can't really nuke well, and if there's a WHM in the party, the WHM is a hellova lot better healer than a RDM. RDM job is to enfeeble, refresh, and sub-heal/nuke.

I find that BRD cast Ballad very effectively and keep it on every mage very well, but the downside is it's AoE, and can't be used on the PLD and DRK very well. RDM can cast it on individual characters, so they can do it on every job, but they don't seem to keep it up very well compared to BRD.

 

[Trippyhippy]

I find that BRD cast Ballad very effectively and keep it on every mage very well, but the downside is it's AoE, and can't be used on the PLD and DRK very well. RDM can cast it on individual characters, so they can do it on every job, but they don't seem to keep it up very well compared to BRD.

I didn't have much of a problem with it for the short time I played bard.

Have your Pld stand with his back to the mages and have the other melees stand on the opposite side of the mob, that gives you enough space to get the pld inside casting range on ballad and leave te others out...if you are Spoony enough.

It's all about communication with bard.

As far as Drk goes, just give it to him/her in between fights. they don't use all that much mp anyway.

 

[Stouter]

I find that BRD cast Ballad very effectively and keep it on every mage very well, but the downside is it's AoE, and can't be used on the PLD and DRK very well. RDM can cast it on individual characters, so they can do it on every job, but they don't seem to keep it up very well compared to BRD.

I never had trouble keeping ballad on a pld that was able to position themself with their back to the mages. All songs played with a wind instrument have the exact same range, and since there is no ballad+ instrument, there is no reason not to play ballad with a horn in exp. Picture the pld on one side of the mob, and the other melee on the other side. Picture the distance between them, that's how much room for error the bard has to work with, it's a lot.

It's not that a bard can't keep ballad on a pld, it's that most bards are unwilling to learn how to do it, and would rather get into a party with a ninja tank or rdm and avoid it. This goes to your crappy mage point, and yes there are so many of them, they just stick out more than the crappy drk that engages then goes afk, popping back in to see if they have enough TP to skillchain.

 

[Bluefrost]

Have your Pld stand with his back to the mages and have the other melees stand on the opposite side of the mob, that gives you enough space to get the pld inside casting range on ballad and leave te others out...if you are Spoony enough.

But I don't like the mob facing the mages in case there are some nasty AoE's. :-(

 

[Stouter]

But I don't like the mob facing the mages in case there are some nasty AoE's. :-(

Then direct it at an angle, it doesn't have to be direct, here's a nice diagram for you:

---melee
----mob
--------pld




mages

How many exp mobs have a directional attack 55+? Raptors, flies, crawlers, tigers, anything else? This isn't an issue for most of the mobs you'll face; crabs, lizards, pugs, cockatrices, gobs, dhalmels, weapons, golems.

Even when directional attacks are an issue, the conical area is fairly narrow, so it's very possible to give your bard an easily doable setup. I had one party where the positioning was as follows:

drg
mob drk
pld

mages

Mages and pld got double ballad, drk got ballad 2 and madrigal, drg got madrigal and minuet. Distance is not a difficult thing to get down if you're willing to try.

 

[Uzor]

It's also making me feel strange seeing nothing but Elvaan BLM's leveling up now. Elvaan have the worst INT, and second-worst MP in the game. Compared to a Taru, who would do like 10x the damage that an Elvaan would do. Especially when seeing that Elvaan BLM's don't go for any other equipment other than DEF equip.

I don't know if I should take offence to this or just laught it off. While it's true that Elvaan BLM have worst INT and second worst MP, it's something that's easily fixed... I outdamage most other BLMes my level as it is, unless they use the same equipment I use (haven't seen it yet though) and HQ staves instead of NQ staves. Granted, Tarutaru BLMes might do slighly more damage then me because of the naturally high INT, but even then it's only by a few points. And I can still outdamage them by using my MP more wisely.

You see other Bards there that use Ballad, then maybe at the most would use Spirited Etude on the WHM (which still awes me because MND is damn useless for cures).

This is only partly true. Pre-61 Spirited Etude might be overrated, but at 61 you get Cure V, which is effected by MND by a lot. Although, at that level I would prefer Ballad since I rarely use Cure V other then after a high-damaging WS <.<;

Even then, the first priority of Refresh is themselves, then the BLM, then the PLD, then the DRK, then the WHM.

Considering I have RDM75 WHM73 and BLM68, I have to say that Refresh, in most situations, are highly overrated for all jobs but PLD (although, I can't really say since my PLD is 24). And there is no "ideal" Refresh-chain, it changes from situation to situation. And tell me, why is it so bad to start the refresh chain with yourself? You know what? it's not. Refresh should be started with yourself for several reasons.
1) it's easier to see when you need to recast Refresh by casting it on yourself first (although, if you know that Refresh lasts exactly 1hour and 7 min game-time, that's another story...)
2) if you don't start Refresh with yourself, you might find that in a bad situation, you have 39 MP, Refresh just wore off, and Convert is at a 1 min timer still. This is not something you want.

Now,, the basic refresh-chain is usually RDM -> PLD -> WHM -> BLM. Why is that? Let me tell you why.

the further you go in the chain, the higher the delay between the refreshes will be (unless you recast it before it wears off, in that case it doesn't matter). When you come to the BLM, the delay will most likely be around 2 sec, this offcourse isn't a whole lot, but nyway... Another reason is that PLD just simply need refresh more then the WHM and BLM in most cases, because BLM (and WHM to an extent) can just sit down and heal whenever they wish during battle. This is something a PLD and RDM can not, and should not do. There is, however, some special situations when they, too, can heal during battle. And believe it or not, RDM is a highly MP-dependent job, which is one of the reasons we have Refresh and Convert...

Anyway, your original post is bullshitting and great generalization... /disgusted

 

[Direwolf]

In response to the elvaan vs taru BLMs. Taru have more base INT and MP. This makes them incredibely lazy and sloppy as a whole. Most mages I have met that truely suck a cock outside of the dunes and qufim (We are talking boyhoda tree here and no idea how to land a MB) have almost universely been taru. And we are not talking sucking any kind of cock here, but a horse cock, with buckets of cum all over their faces.

The last 4 BLMs my static has invited (4 man static we get a healer and nuker) count them FOUR where all tarutaru and NONE of them could land a MB, I take that back one MBed TWICE. The WHM MBed more then them. Before you ask we had a standard SC call out that was not hard to miss, wearing a headset I actualy wince every time I hear my <call>

 

[Peregrine]

Elvaan blms are fine if they're correctly utilized by a party and not this imbalanced, skewed mentality that infects some of the the taru-only population insists on enforcing. It doesn't take much to be a great blm in a party that uses blms how blms were probably meant to be used. It certainly doesn't take a taru, and it certainly doesn't take millions in compensation if you're not a taru.

My only beef with a few players that seem to flock to the mage class is that Square compensated for 10 FF's worth of mages being almost completely unnecessary to making up for that in a single attempt. People see that. They know that. They play that because they like how that makes them feel when they log on. If you want to be treated like royalty while wearing crap, being lazy, and a shoe-in for everything endgame, you level black mage. And so they do. The minority, sure, but I wouldn't call this stereotyping. It's just playing the law of averages that if you were to repeat the server again and again, you'd see it again and again--mages behaving badly.

 

[Bajaratt]

Elvaan blms are fine if they're correctly utilized by a party and not this imbalanced, skewed mentality that infects some of the the taru-only population insists on enforcing. It doesn't take much to be a great blm in a party that uses blms how blms were probably meant to be used. It certainly doesn't take a taru, and it certainly doesn't take millions in compensation if you're not a taru.

My only beef with a few players that seem to flock to the mage class is that Square compensated for 10 FF's worth of mages being almost completely unnecessary to making up for that in a single attempt. People see that. They know that. They play that because they like how that makes them feel when they log on. If you want to be treated like royalty while wearing crap, being lazy, and a shoe-in for everything endgame, you level black mage. And so they do. The minority, sure, but I wouldn't call this stereotyping. It's just playing the law of averages that if you were to repeat the server again and again, you'd see it again and again--mages behaving badly.

You could say the same thing about ranger before the nerf.

 

[Mirewen]

I take offence to that considering the time and money I've put into my gear. Wth is up with the generalizations? Sounds more like jealousy.

 

[Uzor]

In response to the elvaan vs taru BLMs. Taru have more base INT and MP. This makes them incredibely lazy and sloppy as a whole. Most mages I have met that truely suck a cock outside of the dunes and qufim (We are talking boyhoda tree here and no idea how to land a MB) have almost universely been taru. And we are not talking sucking any kind of cock here, but a horse cock, with buckets of cum all over their faces.

The last 4 BLMs my static has invited (4 man static we get a healer and nuker) count them FOUR where all tarutaru and NONE of them could land a MB, I take that back one MBed TWICE. The WHM MBed more then them. Before you ask we had a standard SC call out that was not hard to miss, wearing a headset I actualy wince every time I hear my <call>

However sad it might be, it's true. Not to everyone, but a lot. There are some great tarutaru BLMes out there (Firestreak, Daveman, shuichu etc.), but most of the ones I've partied with plain out sucks, it both "skill" and "equipment", just because they know they can be lazy when it comes to equipment. Most elvaan mages, however, know that their race isn't the "ideal" one when it comes to magery, and thus spend more time trying to be better in order to make up for lost... things...

 

[Uzor]

Just to add something. That doesn't apply to all elvaan mages either, because I have met some that seriously suck ass too. And when they suck just as bad as a bad taru BLM, they suck even worse because of the tarus slight advantage

 

[Peregrine]

You could say the same thing about ranger before the nerf.

Yeah, and that's probably why they got nerfed. When I leave groups out, it's because they're not on the discussion table, not because they don't exist. There are meleers behaving badly, but if you try to claim that there aren't stuck-up mages out there playing mage because of the attention and accomodation that it gives, them...well you can't. If you try to claim that a mage can't get by and get up by being absolutely terrible...we all know it happens. It's definitely a factor that some play blm and rdm and whm for--to get well in the game without being exceptional, because the job is inherently exceptional with no effort required.

You can't leave it up to the fanbase to not flock to imbalance. They can't refrain as a group. The prize is too large. That is why balance is so important. It has nothing to do with being jealous. I've know for over a year that the best moneymaking job isn't thief. It's blm. Blms get KS and BC invites when thieves are left to sit on their seals if they don't create their own opportunities. Blms get invited to group campings while crickets chirp when a thief asks to go. Blms will hit 75 before thieves hit 35. They get a LS vermillion cloak and god gloves when the thief is still out in the dunes camping their pin alone. I've known that the fastest way to L75, merits, and endgame success is...blm, whm, rdm, brd, rng. I've known that if you want the most attention and the most pandering with the least amount of work, you don't level what I've leveled. I'm not jealous. That's just how things work with this player population and these types of games. I would never play blm for the stool to stand on. I don't need a stool to stand on.

Again, there are offenders everywhere all across the boards, but this is a topic about mages being mages because they know they can be invitable and includable no matter how mediocre they are in terms of tactic and merit. There is nothing wrong with generalizations so long as they don't progress to stereotypes. One gives you a good frame of reference for basic probabilities. The other impedes your judgment to the point of hurting you and others.

There are good mages, and there are bad mages. Some bad mages are use their job as an excuse to be elitist and stuck up when they're really nothing impressive. They just chose the imbalanced job. To wave it off as people making a generalization about your job is the cowardly way out. We all know there are players who play their job for one reason: it gets them the most attention for the least amount of effort. There's nothing wrong with that generalization, because you can't sit there and claim that that generalization doesn't specifically and credibly apply to mages, black mages especially.

Are all black mages stuck up job-users? No, welcome to highschool-level grade discussions where people don't hawk the hack stereotyping bit, and where making generalizations has merit in discussion. You don't see a samurai insisting that they lot all the silk and coccoons that the party gets in the nest. You see a white mage doing it. Are you going to negate an entire discussion as to why that happens just because it's a generalization? I hope not, because to do so is naive.

 

[Thnikkaman]

I take offence to that considering the time and money I've put into my gear. Wth is up with the generalizations? Sounds more like jealousy.

Don't dis teh Black Mage.

 

[Bajaratt]

I've never seen a mage insist on getting any drops before. I've people from any kind of job ask a party if they can lot on one drop to help their crafting, but never anyone forcing a party to give them drops.

I'm not disputing that some mages are like that, I'm just saying that most aren't and it's not only the mages. One of the black mages in my party(which I'm posting right now while his replacement ges here), Sofuton, overnuked and pulled hate on a Greater Cockatrice. The Cockatrice then used Hammer Beak and one-shotted him, and the prick just warped after he got raised.

 

[Thnikkaman]

Rather than starting a brand new thread for this, I just wanna say that the linkshell Constantine is shit. I was in it, and I was friends with the members of the linkshell for a long time. Then everyone started getting sour, and if you didn't listen to everyone's every demand, you were kicked out. Namely Pauge, though. A few people quit the LS after I was kicked out, and now like half of them are pissed off at the leaders. Feels good to be loved.