Merit Parties

[Eulore]

That made me laugh a bit, nice chaos esp the rdm part and im suprised ppl think that about bst now, i thought people still believed that they hurt exp

Ask the cor what die he has, and if he has the exp one, at least then he is in.

Cor=another Brd, everthing else that brd doesn't do or just does well like a brd

If a 75 cor only has an exp die, he needs to jump off a cliff.

Cor's only get buffs, they don't get elegy which helps a lot with keeping up shadows, and they can't sleep mobs. The the main advantages of bard over corsair are debuffs, sleep, and consistant refresh. I don't think I'd invite a corsair to a merit party, a link or 2 that can't be slept could easily wipe a party.

 

[K. Ishitar]

/Face slap self

Dunes memory, I'm sorry. But all this cor had was ninja die and corsair die. ni

 

[Sharpe]

BRD > COR FACT! :bb:

 

[Vilurum]

a link or 2 that can't be slept could easily wipe a party.

While there wasn't a wipe the time I tried them, this is my #1 reason for not liking qutrub exp. Neither sleep nor lullaby (and we're talking heavily equipped/merited RDM and BRD here) works on these at all. Or if it does, they're as resistant as an HNM. When we got adds, someone had to voke them and just sit there getting hit (or blinking).

#2 reason is that half of them come in the THF+BLM (yeah, two jobs, or at least the spells of a BLM with the evasion of a THF ...) variety, meaning a. they cast painful spells (slows down pulls too) and b. they evade like mad. And the only way to tell which variety they are before pulling is to get way up close and look at their weapon. Which you so don't have time to do in merit parties.

#3 reason is that while they take a bunch of damage from everything, they have a *ton* of HP, so it ends up at least cancelling out compared to normal mobs, if not being worse.

when you can give a 24% haste and a 3 mp refresh and pull and sleep mob so the melee are never not attacking and hitting chain 50~150 They are wanted lol

Nitpick from earlier in the thread, but it's closer to 20% when stacked. Not to mention having them *stacked* means you either have 2 BRDs, or your melees are neither getting attack *nor* accuracy, though admittedly accuracy isn't often used in merit parties aside from THF mobs.

 

[Kire]

Nitpick from earlier in the thread, but it's closer to 20% when stacked. Not to mention having them *stacked* means you either have 2 BRDs, or your melees are neither getting attack *nor* accuracy, though admittedly accuracy isn't often used in merit parties aside from THF mobs.

10% per song and 2% for HQ insturment = 12% stack them 24% haste
what i have found best for DOT most WARs NINs MNKs i have lved with have PCC/PCA and sushi and rest attack and it kinda works

 

[Celvantes]

Read the rest of the sentance that you quoted. Here it is:


Getting TP fast isn't what I was talking about, I was talking about large DoT numbers in the process of getting TP quickly, which Samurai doesn't fall into. Later on in the sentance I specify further with jobs who's damage is mainly from weapon skills, which is SAMURAI, DRK, Thf, rng and jobs who's damage is mainly from the DoT while they're building TP for a WS, mnk, nin, war, drg.

I never said or implied that sam's gained TP slow, with a soboro or meditate no job can touch a sam's TP gain. The rest of the sentance is important, please read it.

I saw it, I just didn't consider it relevant because I don't typically see the DoT numbers (don't have a parser). Is the damage THAT significantly greater from DoT to overrule the WS (and potential skillchain and burst damage) damage that SAMs are spitting out at a greater rate?

I would love to see a total damage parse over the course of a 4+ hour tp burn party of a comparably equipped SAM/WAR (using GKT) and WAR/NIN (using 1h axes). If anyone has saved data, by all means post it.

I may be wrong, but my gut tells me that over the long run, their damage would be more or less the same. If a WAR/NIN could fire off Rampage as often as a SAM can WS... yeah, I'd agree that they would do more damage. But I think a SAM would be WSing at least 1.5-2 times more than WAR (discounting something like Ridill, which not everyone has).

 

[Gain]

10% per song and 2% for HQ insturment = 12% stack them 24% haste
what i have found best for DOT most WARs NINs MNKs i have lved with have PCC/PCA and sushi and rest attack and it kinda works

Saying Vilurum is wrong about BRD stuff... oh man are you gonna get served.

 

[Kire]

Saying Vilurum is wrong about BRD stuff... oh man are you gonna get served.

it is 10% per song but then if u got hq insturments it adds 2 and 24 seconds onto the songs a known fact lol

 

[Vilurum]

it is 10% per song but then if u got hq insturments it adds 2 and 24 seconds onto the songs a known fact lol

Advancing March is about 6.5%, and Victory March is about 7.75%, at 75 (note that Victory March is not capped at 75, so more skill can push it higher). Faerie Piccolo for March +2 is +3% per song. I'll spare you the math and statistics. (I can definitely say they're not, and are not required to be, integer percentages, but I'll spare you all the hair-pulling math that proves that.)

Play with recasts some time. If either song with the instrument gave +12%, you'd see a 52 sec recast on a 60 sec spell (such as reraise or mazurka), either via spamming /recast or looking at the number in the magic menu as the spell goes off. If the two of them stacked gave +24%, you'd see a 45 sec recast under the same test.

Advancing March with Faerie Piccolo gives 54 sec recast.
Victory March with Faerie Piccolo gives 53 sec recast.
Advancing March and Victory March together, with Faerie Piccolo, gives 47 sec recast.

Whatever the exact numbers are (I'm taking a break from throttling the haste formula to pin them down exactly), they definitely ain't 12% each, and Advancing is furthermore weaker than Victory (statement of obvious from me, as usual).

Wherever you're getting your "known facts" from, I'd suggest finding a more informed source that isn't easily contradicted with an easily performed test.

 

[Kire]

Advancing

Advancing March with Faerie Piccolo gives 54 sec recast.
Victory March with Faerie Piccolo gives 53 sec recast.
Advancing March and Victory March together, with Faerie Piccolo, gives 47 sec recast.
P

60 seconds 10% is 6 seconds 60-6 = 54

Advancing March with Faerie Piccolo gives 54 sec recast.

idk about victory lol

 

[neophytal]

war mnk brd nin whm rdm onry <3

 

[Bajaratt]

I saw it, I just didn't consider it relevant because I don't typically see the DoT numbers (don't have a parser). Is the damage THAT significantly greater from DoT to overrule the WS (and potential skillchain and burst damage) damage that SAMs are spitting out at a greater rate?

I would love to see a total damage parse over the course of a 4+ hour tp burn party of a comparably equipped SAM/WAR (using GKT) and WAR/NIN (using 1h axes). If anyone has saved data, by all means post it.

I may be wrong, but my gut tells me that over the long run, their damage would be more or less the same. If a WAR/NIN could fire off Rampage as often as a SAM can WS... yeah, I'd agree that they would do more damage. But I think a SAM would be WSing at least 1.5-2 times more than WAR (discounting something like Ridill, which not everyone has).

Yes, it really is. Along with the very high DoT damage, the jobs are also putting out weaponskill damage which is not insignificant either. Also, with most of the merit parties, as someone already said, the fights last under a minute so unless the samurai is using a soboro or meditate they're not getting off 2 weaponskills in a single fight. So with the much higher DoT damage and the little less powerful weaponskills(maybe) war's trump samurai in overall damage. While samurai is a damage dealer their main purpose is skillchain versatility, not cranking out insane damage numbers like mnk or a war/nin can.

There's a reason why MNK is the strongest DD job in the game, and it's DoT.

 

[Vilurum]

60 seconds 10% is 6 seconds 60-6 = 54

Except you were saying it was 12% in that test you quoted (Advancing March *with correct instrument*), and was 10% normally.

Compare apples to apples please. You're hard enough to argue with as it is, without your completely going and throwing logic out the window like this.

More stats:
Advancing March "normally" (no March+ instrument): 56 sec
Victory March "normally" (no March+ instrument): 55 sec

 

[K. Ishitar]

The bards are meleeing at each other /runs for cover!

 

[Vilurum]

The bards are meleeing at each other /runs for cover!

/dies of boredom

Would be a more accurate response, considering how long it takes a bard to melee anything to death.

 

[Stouter]

If a 75 cor only has an exp die, he needs to jump off a cliff.

Cor's only get buffs, they don't get elegy which helps a lot with keeping up shadows, and they can't sleep mobs. The the main advantages of bard over corsair are debuffs, sleep, and consistant refresh. I don't think I'd invite a corsair to a merit party, a link or 2 that can't be slept could easily wipe a party.

Cor works great with a rdm lone healer. Cor buffs and pulls, rdm sleeps at camp. If you have a war heavy cannon warrior's roll is insanity. If you have a nin heavy cannon the thf crit hit one is nice. They can also boost attack.

Mages can get a pseudo ballad that's up to 4/tick, and get hMP or MAB at the same time. I could see COR as a decent brd replacement for manaburn, especially one with a rdm.

 

[Peregrine]

I'd invite a cor to a mire pt. Updates on armor will only strengthen their abilities, and while the fighter's roll is terrible (on my warrior >.<), the rogue's roll almost gets my drg killed.

Pure DoT'er monks should be drooling over a rogue's roll even without a thief I would imagine. Brd comes first, sure, but corsair is turning out to be a very nice support job.

 

[Tiael]

/dies of boredom

Would be a more accurate response, considering how long it takes a bard to melee anything to death.

Kire doesn't need to melee things to death, all he needs to do is argue things he doesn't know shit about to a highly respected player(BRD even) on the server, and everyone falls over dead from his bs.

 

[Kire]

just did reraise and recast was 53 so thats just over 10% around 11.5

 

[Vilurum]

just did reraise and recast was 53 so thats just over 10% around 11.5

Nice job saying under what conditions you did that too, though I'm suspecting Victory March with Faerie Piccolo (or an inability to note down the recast number before it's ticked down, in which case it could be either march, with or without the instrument, since in that case the test would be meaningless).

Summary of numbers - actual tested result (and possible haste range it *can* be) vs. my claim vs. your claim.

Advancing March, random instrument:
Reality: 0:56 (5% - 6.667%)
My claim (6.5%): 0:56
Your claim (10%): 0:54

Victory March, random instrument:
Reality: 0:55 (6.667% - 8.333%)
My claim (7.75%): 0:55
Your claim (10%): 0:54

Advancing March, Faerie Piccolo:
Reality: 0:54 (8.333% - 10%)
My claim (9.5%): 0:54
Your claim (12%): 0:52

Victory March, Faerie Piccolo:
Reality: 0:53 (10% - 11.667%)
My claim (10.75%): 0:53
Your claim (12%): 0:52

Advancing March and Victory March, Faerie Piccolo for both:
Reality: 0:47 (20% - 21.667%)
My claim (20.25%): 0:47
Your claim (24%): 0:45

This has been enough of a nerdfest for me. I have sufficiently proven you wrong to the point where I can't be bothered to repeat myself any further than I already have, whether you actually get it or not.