My Account was Hacked :(

Uzor said:
Well, it depends. Its part of Explorer, and Windows uses some of its files (rather then the other way around...) However, not using Internet Explorer to browse the internet is still safer, as IE is a piece of crap.
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It would be if not using it got rid of the vulnerabilities, but it doesn't. One program can be used to exploit another then another. If it is on your system, and it always will be, then it can be exploited.

There is actually a way to "uninstall" it, which I won't go through as it can seriously fuck up your computer. If you're interested in how to do it, google it. You could actually completely remove IE from your computer before XP, but as I stated, Windows XP now actually use parts of IE, rather then IE using parts of Windows.
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Yeah, I know you can remove it from XP and older, but on vista, IE7 is there and there is nothing you can do about it. You can't even "downgrade" to 6.

Also, like I said, you have to use IE to update windows. The windows update site uses IE only Scripts, so getting rid of it would actually cripple your computer.

Also, every program has security holes. All of them. If you have more programs you will have more security problems. You can have IE with no Firefox, but you can't have Firefox with no IE.
 
Trippyhippy said:
There are plenty of security holes in both of them. Firefox is only used by 35% of people browsing the internet while IE is used by 55% of people browsing the internet. Firefox is more secure in the same way Macs are more secure, no one cares to target a smaller group of people. Although, now that it is actually getting some attention from users, and getting to be famous for being more secure, more people will start using it, and more people will start writing malicious code to exploit it.

Or you could pretend like it doesn't exist and be lulled into a false state of security by using firefox. Even though IE is still on your computer, and still as vulnerable as it was before. So firefox users have to deal with vulnerabilities from 2 programs. How is that possibly any more secure?
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Uhm, no. Firefox is secure and popular because it's open source. Whereas an official update to IE might take weeks, or months, a security hole of equal vulnerability is likely to be patched by the end of the day, or the next day. Yes anyone can patch it, so there might be some dubious scripts that could be applied, the Firefox community is large enough that these tend to get weeded out.

And as for the second part of the quote, say you have a new Lan-Evo, and a 73 Buick. Are you twice as likely to get into an accident because you have 2 cars? No, because you only use one car. Visiting an infected site with Firefox, Adblock, and Noscript is not going to trigger some exploit in IE security. Going to somepage with these features enabled actually helped pin down what site(s) was/were infected. Instead of infecting the computer, nice big warnings pop up. Which you would not get while using IE. Which is why people are suggesting Firefox. Which has been a major point of the thread from page 1.
 
Falsey said:
I can list my POL ID all over the web and not get hacked.
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Brute forcing your password would be trivial, unless you change it once a ~month. Even worse, some idiot could keep failing your login every 6 minutes and you'll never login to POL ever again.
 
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There was actually a security issue in Firefox, between 2.0.0.0 and 2.0.0.5, which involved IE and Firefox. It was caused by Firefox, but only affected IE. Imagine that.
 
Malagra said:
Uhm, no. Firefox is secure and popular because it's open source. Whereas an official update to IE might take weeks, or months, a security hole of equal vulnerability is likely to be patched by the end of the day, or the next day. Yes anyone can patch it, so there might be some dubious scripts that could be applied, the Firefox community is large enough that these tend to get weeded out.
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And yet small enough to where they aren't the main target.

And as for the second part of the quote, say you have a new Lan-Evo, and a 73 Buick. Are you twice as likely to get into an accident because you have 2 cars? No, because you only use one car. Visiting an infected site with Firefox, Adblock, and Noscript is not going to trigger some exploit in IE security.
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Yes, but you don't have to be driving your car for it to be destroyed. What if someone gets their jollies from going around trashing peoples cars decideds to go trash your Buick that is parked at your house while you are out cruising in your Lan-Evo? Your Buick gets set on fire and it spreads to your house, totally gutting everything inside while you were out cruising and feeling safe.

You must have missed the part where I explained (in great detail) that you have to use IE for certain things as long as you are running windows. There is no way around it. So, instead of making IE secure, you use firefox, and when you go to use IE, you are in a world of shit because you have neglected security upkeep.

Going to somepage with these features enabled actually helped pin down what site(s) was/were infected. Instead of infecting the computer, nice big warnings pop up. Which you would not get while using IE. Which is why people are suggesting Firefox. Which has been a major point of the thread from page 1.
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The warning I got was "Please install activeX to use this control". I consider that a warning because I took the time to find out what activeX does, and how to disable it and now I know better. There are many firefox only users that have gotten their shit stollen in the exact same way you are saying firefox prevents. Why is that?
 
Trippyhippy said:
And yet small enough to where they aren't the main target.
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Security through obscurity. Not something to rely on, but certainly a handy side-effect.



Trippyhippy said:
You must have missed the part where I explained (in great detail) that you have to use IE for certain things as long as you are running windows. There is no way around it. So, instead of making IE secure, you use firefox, and when you go to use IE, you are in a world of shit because you have neglected security upkeep.
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Seeing how I missed this part to, I'm curious as to what these "certain things" are. Windows 98 (I think?) was the last version of Windows to have IE integrated quite as directly with windows, (due to one of the antitrust suits? It's been awhile...) and since I myself haven't laid a finger on IE in a very very long time, I'm curious as to what requires it...

...and quite frankly, any website that requires internet explorer doesn't follow standards set forth by the w3c, and is either not worth my time, or at best, not preferable.


Trippyhippy said:
The warning I got was "Please install activeX to use this control". I consider that a warning because I took the time to find out what activeX does, and how to disable it and now I know better. There are many firefox only users that have gotten their shit stollen in the exact same way you are saying firefox prevents. Why is that?
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It's a lot easier to stay safe if you are informed about things. Alternative browsers are a good aid for those who aren't or can't be, and a further boost to those who are.

As far as firefox only users getting infected in the same way... link?
 
Garvin said:
Seeing how I missed this part to, I'm curious as to what these "certain things" are.

Windows Update. You can not update windows without IE.

Windows 98 (I think?) was the last version of Windows to have IE integrated quite as directly with windows, (due to one of the antitrust suits? It's been awhile...) and since I myself haven't laid a finger on IE in a very very long time, I'm curious as to what requires it...
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Windows Vista, as I have mentioned many times now, will not even list IE7 in the add remove programs window. You can remove it from XP, but then you can't get updates, at least not with Firefox.

...and quite frankly, any website that requires internet explorer doesn't follow standards set forth by the w3c, and is either not worth my time, or at best, not preferable.
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See above. That's as far as I really needed to go to find out what sites use it exclusivly. The one site that matters above all else as far as security is concerned uses IE only scripts.

It's a lot easier to stay safe if you are informed about things. Alternative browsers are a good aid for those who aren't or can't be, and a further boost to those who are.
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As Uzor mentioned, there have been security holes that allow people to take control of IE with Firefox. So, in addition to having IE security problems that you must take care of no matter what, you also have to deal with Firefox security problems.

As far as firefox only users getting infected in the same way... link?
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I was thinking Marajade and Souljiro had said they were firefox only. My mistake. But then again, even the people that say they are, aren't really.

Like I said before, you can have only IE on your computer, but you can't have only firefox on your computer.
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Unless you speak of another one, it didn't exactly allow Firefox to take control of IE. It was actually due to a Firefox script being in the code on certain sites, that IE didn't pick up as dangerous for firefox, which made IE run it, and thus have your information compromised. You had to have Firefox started at the same time, though, as it would send the script to Firefox, basically. Or something like that. Firefox alone ignored it, as Firefox knew it was dangerous.

To be more precise, the issue had to do with IE picking up a "firefoxurl://" code while running Firefox at the same time. This allowed people to use the "Chrome" command, in order to put a non-viewable frame around its page display, in order to inject a code in to the user's system. Firefox would pick it up normally if running it alone, bue due to the "firefuxurl://" being run in IE, IE ignores the security breach, as it doesn't know what Firefox see as dangerous.
 
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jamal said:
If you're posting with a disclaimer or not, it doesn't matter. Don't discuss what doesn't involve you. That's as assanine an excuse as Talladega Nights when Will Ferrel says, "What, I said with all due respect". Your posts hold 0 value there. This is Final Fantasy XI GENERAL DISCUSSION. I AM INVOLVED IN FFXI. MY POSTINGS ARE RELEVANT.

I still haven't read a relevant word to where the discussion was. I don't need a disclaimer when you can't come up with a better example of how I'm wrong other than a scratched CD...

If you don't like reading my posts, by all means use the ignore function.
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It's not that I don't like reading your posts. I enjoy them, actually. However, let's get some shit straight.

First, please don't compare "don't take my word for it, this is only opinion" to "I can say or do what I want as long as I say 'with all due respect'", because they're completely opposing ideas. Truth be told, the latter argument there could really be applied to your personal brand of 'advice' if anything, but I'm not getting into that in this thread, or in any other thread. It simply isn't worth my time.


Second, customer service is customer service, be it for a scratched disc, a stolen account, a missing manual, or anything that takes away from your use of the product that you yourself purchased. The same checksheet used by a CSR for one incident is used for the other. The CSR takes your call, does what is in his/her power to rectify the situation, and if they haven't pleased the customer, then the issue gets passed up a notch in the chain.

Of course, there is a statute of limitations involved here, in that a person cannot simply nitpick something inane and expect to speak to the CEO of SE America. However, Customer Service is where any company's real front is given. Sales, design, and any other department are for nothing if they cannot back it up with valuable service to their buyers. It sounds in this case like Jussy's gotten the veritable shaft in customer service, and it's wrong. It's almost as wrong as having been hacked in the first place.

Now that that's all over and out of the way, I feel I'm finished on this issue entirely. It's becoming circular reasoning all over again in the 'which browser is superior' argument, and that kind of mess isn't constructive at all anymore. Points have been made, userbase; take them or leave them.
 
jamal said:
They could have sure, but they're not obligated to. Would it be nice for them to have a more investigative stance? Yes. But they haven't in 4 years, and have made tons of money from user subscriptions of those who are somehow dissatisfied. Customer Service is just one part of business...and by continuing paying for the product, you are proving to them that the service they are giving is adequate.
If you really want to make a point, stop paying for services, and put your account on hold. I'm sure everyone signing the petition would agree with you to do it. In the grand scheme of things, it will be what, 100 people that would actually try to do this? SE won't flinch at that number. So why would a petition make anymore difference.
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Most of us on here would argue that they are obligated to. According to running a business by incorporating morals and virtues (i.e. kindness and responsibility), they are most definitely obligated to do what they can to solve these problems. However, if you just look at it from the narrow-minded business world view of things, they aren't obligated to, because there are no Benjamin Franklins smiling at them on the other side.
 
jamal said:
If you're posting with a disclaimer or not, it doesn't matter. Don't discuss what doesn't involve you. That's as assanine an excuse as Talladega Nights when Will Ferrel says, "What, I said with all due respect". Your posts hold 0 value there. This is Final Fantasy XI GENERAL DISCUSSION. I AM INVOLVED IN FFXI. MY POSTINGS ARE RELEVANT.

I still haven't read a relevant word to where the discussion was. I don't need a disclaimer when you can't come up with a better example of how I'm wrong other than a scratched CD...

If you don't like reading my posts, by all means use the ignore function.
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You both have made good points. Neither of you knows nothing, nor everything. Yes, Jamal has a lot of information about end-game, and perhaps Tristram doesn't, however Tristram is just as much a human being with experience in living life. So while Jamal may know how to do the most damage, perhaps Tristram knows how to have more fun. It just involves two different mindsets, therefore, though Tristram's posts in an end-game topic may be less considered, they are by no means worthless.

Jamal, you want him to use the ignore function, which you stated yourself that you cannot do twice in a row... practice what you preach. It doesn't matter how much end-game experience you have, recurring inconsistencies and overexaggerations do diminish credibility.

Crap, I've said too much and kind of derailing. Just please keep it civil and accurate so that this doesn't go to the flameboard.
 
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Why even keep talking to him, some people are going to think certain ways others don't.

Apparently committing a crime is bad but in the opinion of some, oh well, the victims are worse because crimes can't be committed if criminals aren't given chances.

But whatever, just keep up the fight Jussy, I'm sure it will eventually work out. I'm looking forward to doing some BS and KS runs with you when you get back, I got some seals burning a whole in my mog :)

Just keep with the updates.

Plus I'm tired of doing your work in Rawr, hurry up :)
 
Aaleel said:
Why even keep talking to him, some people are going to think certain ways others don't.

Apparently committing a crime is bad but in the opinion of some, oh well, the victims are worse because crimes can't be committed if criminals aren't given chances.

But whatever, just keep up the fight Jussy, I'm sure it will eventually work out. I'm looking forward to doing some BS and KS runs with you when you get back, I got some seals burning a whole in my mog :)

Just keep with the updates.

Plus I'm tired of doing your work in Rawr, hurry up :)
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lol sorry for the load, I hope to be back soon!! I'll try harder not to let this stuff get me fired up, because, you're right, I don't seem to be getting anywhere by arguing atm.
 
I'm just wonderin' What was the outcome of all this? Jussy did you get Jussy back? I was looking all thru the 30 pages and then got tired :)
 
Yeah, every so often, I see Jussy on Asura. He's not on for that long, maybe about once or twice a week. He's obviously an idiot for not deleting people off his Friends List.
 
Still nothing so far. TheEye is working on the subpoena thing still though. Hoping for a win there; he seems pretty confident about it.
 
neophytal said:
alwaysalwaysalwaysalwaysalwaysalwaysalwaysalwaysalwaysalwaysalways
alwaysalwaysalwaysalwaysalwaysalwaysalwaysalwaysalwaysalwaysalways

format hd's when you buy them
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Also for good measure, if you get a new computer, format it's HD and reinstall everything. My new laptop had a virus on it right out of the box. :omg:
 
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