Nerf Treasure Hunter!!

Excim said:
Too true. To be honest, I almost miss the days when you had to be alert while XPing at the zone of an area and watch for mobs getting "zoned." It sucked, but certainly added some excitement to the drab XP party.
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It's not even XP, it's Missions where it gets exploited. You know that previously tough stretch on the 4th floor of the promies? Well now, just get a Thf to flee and PD to the zone. Mobs despawn, clear path is made. Hell I was reading about sewer syrup the other day. People are taking the approach to take him all the way to the Wron zone so that links depop and you can fight him in piece. Talk about a rediculous crutch!
 
Quieren said:
I just can't wait till war and mnk get their lil cannon party nerf'd also. All these people say they play fun jobs because they are "fun" are the ones bitching for a nerf on a jobs till it seems theirs is the elite job. We already killed everyone that lvl'd rng, why not, lets take out the blm next. Maybe by the time we're done, we can simply try to bore kirin to death. SE wants to fix the abuse of cannon party exp, put a fucking cap on the height of the chain you can go.
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It won't matter to me, honestly. I've been playing MNK since North American release. I find cannons boring as all fuck. Do away with them for all I care, I don't even party for exp these days when there are so many solo options through quests and ENMs, not to mention fighting EM-T mobs with my NPC.
 
Bajaratt said:
Black mages can get exp invites at 75, just most/all of them do manaburns to get exp. Black mages only getting exp through manaburn is as often as not due to the choice of the black mage more than the choice of the party. I've seen more black mages refuse non-manaburn parties than I have black mages who have accepted a 75 party invite. In several exp camps you can't do a cannon party, so a black mage is still useful, they can exp there. A lot of blm's just don't choose to get normal parties, so saying manaburn is the only option is just false.

I'm sure that it's not going to be a one blm cut-off point and then they're just useless; seriously stop making it out to be the end of the world. For big alliance fights, it will likely be 3 or so black mages (i.e. 1 per party) for completely unhindered damage. It will also likely be a diminishing returns based on the number of blm's you have in the alliance at a time. 2 in a party, they might be at 90% each, 3 might be 75%, who knows but it will be a system similar to that. If SE makes it so 2 blm in a single party reduces both to 50% strength, then I will agree with you that they're severely hurt.

The new spells are also included to deal with them being weaker in large groups. If the new spell is 20% stronger, but they are at 70% strength because there's 2-3 in the party, that's still 90% as effective as solo before the patch. That's a decent trade-off, they get weaker as a result of the patch but there's something so they're not totally useless.

As for the MPK patch, that wasn't targeted directly to BST's, so it's irrelevant. The patch was designed to hinder MPK attempts, and they most likely discovered the impacts on BST during the testing of the update. That would be why they implemented the changes in BST, because they saw the impacts that it would have on a job based on a descision they were committed to. As for it being the "lazy man's way" it was actually asked for by players. Stupid players, sure, but it's not like they decided to pick the one solution that woudl hinder a job the most.


Warrior and Monk aren't overpowered in endgame, and exp wasn't what SE meant by overpowered; so they're not likely to be nerfed.
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This whole thing is mostly crap. Tell you what, you level Blm to 75, seek a party, THEN tell me about invites.

Better yet, let me save you the time. I AM a 75 Blm. In the last month, I have tried to seek on several occasions. Do you know how many invites from "regular" parties? Exactly NONE. ZERO. ZILCH. It's not like my seek flag is up for a few seconds before I'm snatched up by one of the thousands of manaburn parties terrorizing Vana. NO NO! We're talking hours of LFG while farming or crafting, only to be invited to manaburns, only half of which fly because all the Brds are waiting for Mnk cannons to form. I AM a 75 Blm, don't to tell me how it is by passing off your speculation as fact.

And YES the Bst nerf WAS the lazy way out. The players didn't ask for it to work that way. If you were paying attention, the popular opinion was for a mob to walk back to his spawn point without aggroing others. That coding took much more work than the system they came down with though, hence the use of the word "lazy".
 
Skaw said:
It won't matter to me, honestly. I've been playing MNK since North American release. I find cannons boring as all fuck. Do away with them for all I care, I don't even party for exp these days when there are so many solo options through quests and ENMs, not to mention fighting EM-T mobs with my NPC.
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Your the exception, not the standard.
 
alanon said:
Better yet, let me save you the time. I AM a 75 Blm. In the last month, I have tried to seek on several occasions. Do you know how many invites from "regular" parties? Exactly NONE. ZERO. ZILCH. It's not like my seek flag is up for a few seconds before I'm snatched up by one of the thousands of manaburn parties terrorizing Vana. NO NO! We're talking hours of LFG while farming or crafting, only to be invited to manaburns, only half of which fly because all the Brds are waiting for Mnk cannons to form. I AM a 75 Blm, don't to tell me how it is by passing off your speculation as fact.
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I haven't gotten a party in a while either. Know why? Because of MNK cannons. KRT is a shitty fucking zone. It can only hold two cannon parties. lol12people.

But seriously, I'm up for exping anywhere, try making your own parties?
 
Odon said:
Your the exception, not the standard.
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No, I'd be willing to bet that Skaw's opinion of indifference IS the majority one. You just never hear it because, well they're indifferent...

As per the norm, the few who whine the loudest are the ones who are heard and end up speaking as if they were the majority.
 
Bajaratt said:
Black mages can get exp invites at 75, just most/all of them do manaburns to get exp. Black mages only getting exp through manaburn is as often as not due to the choice of the black mage more than the choice of the party. I've seen more black mages refuse non-manaburn parties than I have black mages who have accepted a 75 party invite. In several exp camps you can't do a cannon party, so a black mage is still useful, they can exp there. A lot of blm's just don't choose to get normal parties, so saying manaburn is the only option is just false.
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90% of the exp invites I get as BLM are cannons. Regular merits don't normally want BLMs, and for good reasons. The mobs are all VT at that level so melees are stronger comparitvely. Spike damage pulls too much hate. BLM take too much damage when they pull hate. BLM need to rest MP. The best xp I've gotten is up in sky with a bunch of Nins and Wars, a rdm and a brd.

Bajaratt said:
I'm sure that it's not going to be a one blm cut-off point and then they're just useless; seriously stop making it out to be the end of the world. For big alliance fights, it will likely be 3 or so black mages (i.e. 1 per party) for completely unhindered damage. It will also likely be a diminishing returns based on the number of blm's you have in the alliance at a time. 2 in a party, they might be at 90% each, 3 might be 75%, who knows but it will be a system similar to that. If SE makes it so 2 blm in a single party reduces both to 50% strength, then I will agree with you that they're severely hurt.

The new spells are also included to deal with them being weaker in large groups. If the new spell is 20% stronger, but they are at 70% strength because there's 2-3 in the party, that's still 90% as effective as solo before the patch. That's a decent trade-off, they get weaker as a result of the patch but there's something so they're not totally useless.
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Any spell that's going to deal more damage is going to cost more MP. The fact remains,, Squaresoft always screws up their balancing. It's either unnoticable or totally dibilitating.

Bajaratt said:
As for the MPK patch, that wasn't targeted directly to BST's, so it's irrelevant. The patch was designed to hinder MPK attempts, and they most likely discovered the impacts on BST during the testing of the update. That would be why they implemented the changes in BST, because they saw the impacts that it would have on a job based on a descision they were committed to. As for it being the "lazy man's way" it was actually asked for by players. Stupid players, sure, but it's not like they decided to pick the one solution that woudl hinder a job the most.
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Law of unintended consequences. Coordinated MB is damaged, BLM is damaged. BLM is out of the alliance. The melees who make the skillchains are out of the alliance. All that's left are the SMNs.


Bajaratt said:
Warrior and Monk aren't overpowered in endgame, and exp wasn't what SE meant by overpowered; so they're not likely to be nerfed.
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Did you pull that hard hitting investigative reporting... out of your ass? Squaresoft said they think the manaburn is overpowered. That's a term for an exp party.
 
i have to put in to disagree with the title... just to derail the thread of course. thief is a job that exists purely for self gain. everything a thief can do revolves back to self gain and any aid derived to a party or alliance is an extension of the self gain, that would be taking refresh away from rdms. leveling thief as a main job is the ultimate act of greed and self-centeredness.
i can't see how they would nerf blm without nerfing it worse than BST, tp return and and rng put together. i think they're gonna try and nerf it, mess it up irreperably, the whole solution to most of the end game will be damaged and in their pride they will deny that it has been and then a few months down the road undo the changes...
 
Skaw said:
I haven't gotten a party in a while either. Know why? Because of MNK cannons. KRT is a shitty fucking zone. It can only hold two cannon parties. lol12people.

But seriously, I'm up for exping anywhere, try making your own parties?
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WE GOT 2!

Blm - Alanon
DD- Skaw
DD- ??
Tank - ???
Healer - ???
Refresher - ???

Who's up for it?

I'm serious by the way. Like you I too prefer the standard parties. I live to MB. Cannons are a novelty and are fun at first, but I definitely prefer the standard setup given the choice. However, in the absence of that, I'll take a cannon for a quick shot of XP.

When you wanna go Skaw? I wouldn't mind xp'n with ya at all.
 
alanon said:
This whole thing is mostly crap. Tell you what, you level Blm to 75, seek a party, THEN tell me about invites.
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I really don't have to. I've tried building parties where a bl would be useful only to have most blm's turn me down because it wasn't a manaburn. I'm speaking from my experience in trying to get blm's for exp parties, your experience is different, fine. That doesn't mean that no blm ever gets invited to a non-manaburn party.
 
Firestreak said:
Squaresoft said they think the manaburn is overpowered. That's a term for an exp party.
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Yeah, I do think SE fully intend to end all Black Mage related Manaburns one way or another, experience points parties and mission/KS/BCNM's. I thought that was pretty clear in that interview report.
 
Firestreak said:
The fact remains,, Squaresoft always screws up their balancing. It's either unnoticable or totally dibilitating.
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QFT!

This is the heart of the matter for me. My fear is that SE will go overboard as they have proven they are prone to do.
 
Firestreak said:
90% of the exp invites I get as BLM are cannons. Regular merits don't normally want BLMs, and for good reasons. The mobs are all VT at that level so melees are stronger comparitvely. Spike damage pulls too much hate. BLM take too much damage when they pull hate. BLM need to rest MP. The best xp I've gotten is up in sky with a bunch of Nins and Wars, a rdm and a brd.
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There are still camps with IT's where you can't cannon your way through. Blm are still useful there, just as I said, people just don't use them.

Firestreak said:
Did you pull that hard hitting investigative reporting... out of your ass? Squaresoft said they think the manaburn is overpowered. That's a term for an exp party.
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It's also a term for using primarily blm's to do anything at all. If exp was the only consideration, then monk and warrior cannons would be on the chopping block. The fact that they're not means that exp behavior isn't the primary concern, it's events and endgame.
 
Firestreak said:
Did you pull that hard hitting investigative reporting... out of your ass? Squaresoft said they think the manaburn is overpowered. That's a term for an exp party.
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Blm Manaburned Ks99 Sign Ups

Manaburn sure doesn't seem to be just an exp party, unless KS99's give experience.
 
I thought I'd clarify, I was on my Ninja for that party not my BLM. I've had a similar setup up in the northlands, making 40k exp in a few hours, once again no BLM.

BLM are limited by MP concerns. If you haven't played BLM, you don't understand how serious this is. We are spike damage, that doesn't mean we have the best damage over time. We can't keep up MP consistantly enough to have unending chains.

BLM is in many ways UNDERPOWERED. All we have in spike damage. We need good strategy to make ourselves effective. On some mobs other DDs are weakened more than us. And in a few fights we can stack our spike damage together enough to make the fight not a challenge of the fight itself, but a challenge of gathering all the BLM.

Take away what makes us good, and all that's left is something second rate.
 
Firestreak said:
Looks to me like a misuse of the word for comprehension ease. And wow, a whole 10 BLM signed up, one of whom that was one of the 2 who supported the nerf. Interesting.
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Then, um... what would be the proper term for it? And how do you know that SE isn't doing the exact same thing, misusing the word for ease of comprehension?
 
Firestreak said:
Blackmage alliance?
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But that's two words, and I'm lazy. What's a shorter one?
 
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