Nerf Treasure Hunter!!

Lavi said:
This debate, if you can call it that, has nothing to do with melee jobs or even thief. It has to do with the abuse of manaburning in the eyes of SE. KS30 ODS and DM are just two of probably a few things SE sees wrong with manaburning. To me they are the main problems of manaburns. I have no problem with manaburn exp parties, they are in my opinion no different than a melee cannon party. What I do think is it's unfair that BLMs can win DM with one press of the keyboard. You might as well just skip the BC, the CS and hand the earrings to all BLMs as soon as they reach level 73. There was no effort or worked involved and I do not see how they earned that earring. By default, KS manaburns are the same. No effort for a huge payout. Someone providing an orb spends countless hours farming seals versus a BLM who spends 5 mins of their time pressing enter a couple of times. I do not see how any job should be rewarded for no effort.
While we're at it we should make every single job 5x stronger so people can actually kill the Absolute Virtue, because when a certain fight's broken we have to change the jobs not the fight!

(as opposed to, I dunno, use one of like 50 different suggestions to fix these fights individually)
 
Shaidalyn said:
I love BlM.. they kick ass.. they make some pt's really nice... I agree the instant kill is BS but ..... make the mobs harder, dont rape BlM.

I know i replied real late cause i just saw this post.
Making the mobs tougher wont balance out anything, a Manaburn BLM pt will still be able to kill them easily and poor melees who need shit to be done are always outcast.

BLM: DM <Looking for Members> <Black Mage> <Can I Have It?>
SAM/DRK/THF/RNG/DRG/MNK: Melees <Can I Have It?>
BLM: <No Thanks> Melees <Too Weak>

This is what will continue to happen to some ppl.
 
Just delete the aga spells altogether. It's pretty apparent SE doesn't know why they gave Blms the spells. Are they useful in EXP parties? Only in secluded zones with no other mobs in AOE range. God forbid an AOE spell hit multiple mobs to good effect - AOE means PT wipe. Are aga spells good for farming? No, apparently SE nerfed the drop rates on AOE farming some time ago because that would be making aga spells useful. Right now, aga spells have a niche usefulness in manaburn style activities and it seems SE doesn't like that either. Just delete the spells. Giving Blms a whole line of spells that they disapprove of every concievable use for is mindboggling. Just make all of our nukes single target. Granted the numbering scheme would have to be reworked, and we'd end up with nukes 1-9 if all the agas were mixed into their appropriate places, but it'd be better than having an entire genre of spells that noone wants us to use.
 
Daveman said:
While we're at it we should make every single job 5x stronger so people can actually kill the Absolute Virtue, because when a certain fight's broken we have to change the jobs not the fight!

(as opposed to, I dunno, use one of like 50 different suggestions to fix these fights individually)

Fixing the fight doesn't necessarily correct the problem nor is it neccesarily the easiest solution. If nerfing BLM is the quickest solution to removing manaburns or lessening the imact into the game then that is what SE will do. Take DM for instance, the only real modification to it that is neccesary to remove manaburn is to increase the HP of the AA or lessen magic damage. If they did that, then it manaburning it near impossible, but by changing the BC it increases the difficulty of already difficult fight for the non-manaburn type fight. In that case, they have to also modify it so that a normal setup will be more effective to compensate for the increased HP or magic resistance. The simplest solution is to simply correct the key problem. In most instances, -ga spells are not necessary at all. Aspid, Nidhogg, you name it, any mob out in the open shouldn't be nuked with -ga spells and can be killed regardless of SE nerfing it or not. This will effect gods where they are in secluded areas, but really, no one considers them an incredible challenge anymore. Will this make some fights impossible? I highly doubt it.
 
I think the reason that aga farming was nerfed was because of BLMs abusing the their power/griefing other farmers. Before the aga farming nerf all a blm had to do was follow around a farmer and aga his prey and/or train. I know that everyone had to deal with some bastard of a BLM that did that before.
 
Pomp, the reason I feel aga spells exist, and I think it might be the only reason they do exist is to get you in trouble. It is like having a higher teir magic before you can use it, but since you are unpracticed in it, you are innaccurate. Like before a BLM is able to learn the focused attack of fire 2 they get firaga which does similar damage, unfocused for more MP. It really seems like SE put them in there to kind of mimic the learning curve of magics. If you look at it from a sort of RP perspective it actually makes alot of sense.

That's how I've always thought about them anyways. I could just be totally wrong, but thats the sort of logic I could see them using.
 
Lavi said:
Fixing the fight doesn't necessarily correct the problem nor is it neccesarily the easiest solution. If nerfing BLM is the quickest solution to removing manaburns or lessening the imact into the game then that is what SE will do. Take DM for instance, the only real modification to it that is neccesary to remove manaburn is to increase the HP of the AA or lessen magic damage. If they did that, then it manaburning it near impossible, but by changing the BC it increases the difficulty of already difficult fight for the non-manaburn type fight. In that case, they have to also modify it so that a normal setup will be more effective to compensate for the increased HP or magic resistance. The simplest solution is to simply correct the key problem. In most instances, -ga spells are not necessary at all. Aspid, Nidhogg, you name it, any mob out in the open shouldn't be nuked with -ga spells and can be killed regardless of SE nerfing it or not. This will effect gods where they are in secluded areas, but really, no one considers them an incredible challenge anymore. Will this make some fights impossible? I highly doubt it.

Again, it boils down to jealousy. nerf blm b/c they cant do DM quicker. Nevermind that other set ups will not be changed at all, and it will still take them as much time to do the quest regardless.
 
So it's ok that anything in this game can be accomplished by throwing BLMs at it until it dies? No strategy or team work in a team based game? Nevermind the fact that an entire BLM alliance doing what takes the standard party setup countless deaths and retries before they manage to defeat DM with no effort. That diminishes the accomplishments of anyone who put an effort and is proud they won that fight.

"Omg, I finally won DM and got my earring after 10 attempts and 20k exp loss and countless deaths"

BLM: "Whoopie!~ It took me 5 seconds"...

What next? Hand BLMs any end game item because they can do everything better in manaburns? Seriously, if SE meant for all fights to be that simple, they should just hand those DM earrings to BLMs for a congratulations on getting level 73. What reward is there in playing a game, when some other job can do everything and I mean everything a 100 times better? Maybe we should all just quit our jobs and play BLMs since it's obvious BLMs don't care about things being too easy. Everyone should take advantage of it while we can. We can all be the same and all just cast Thundaga III and kill everything. Wheee! Fun~ You know why everyone who left FF went to WoW and comes back? Because WoW is too easy. Level 60 in a week. End game done in a month. If you want an easy game then go to WoW, leave FF to the actual people who want a challenge.
 
When it comes to the issue of BLMs, I agree with everything your saying Lavi. I would put in my 2-cents as well, but you pretty much covered almost every aspect, and for me to add on to that would just lead to everyone running in circles.....which is what I think is already happening now, lol.
 
this happend to rdm lv 73 rdm had c5 and then got taken away of lack of invites on wh only thing whm had was barspells etc and some teles and r2 r3 rr2 rr3 i will find a scanner and scan in this rdm guide has c5 on it
 
Lavi said:
So it's ok that anything in this game can be accomplished by throwing BLMs at it until it dies? No strategy or team work in a team based game? Nevermind the fact that an entire BLM alliance doing what takes the standard party setup countless deaths and retries before they manage to defeat DM with no effort. That diminishes the accomplishments of anyone who put an effort and is proud they won that fight.

"Omg, I finally won DM and got my earring after 10 attempts and 20k exp loss and countless deaths"

BLM: "Whoopie!~ It took me 5 seconds"...

What next? Hand BLMs any end game item because they can do everything better in manaburns? Seriously, if SE meant for all fights to be that simple, they should just hand those DM earrings to BLMs for a congratulations on getting level 73. What reward is there in playing a game, when some other job can do everything and I mean everything a 100 times better? Maybe we should all just quit our jobs and play BLMs since it's obvious BLMs don't care about things being too easy. Everyone should take advantage of it while we can. We can all be the same and all just cast Thundaga III and kill everything. Wheee! Fun~ You know why everyone who left FF went to WoW and comes back? Because WoW is too easy. Level 60 in a week. End game done in a month. If you want an easy game then go to WoW, leave FF to the actual people who want a challenge.

Sure if my life's ambition was to have an abyssal earring you might have another point, otherwise your entire post is just a wate of space because it assumes 1 BC is the same as 100s of endgame things to do.

And who the hell takes 10 attempts to beat DM and 20k exp? If that was you, then you don't even deserve your DM because you suck and should just delete yourself.
 
Firestreak said:
Sure if my life's ambition was to have an abyssal earring you might have another point, otherwise your entire post is just a wate of space because it assumes 1 BC is the same as 100s of endgame things to do.

And who the hell takes 10 attempts to beat DM and 20k exp? If that was you, then you don't even deserve your DM because you suck and should just delete yourself.

And a shitty LS that can't even MB on Kirin because it's a "waste" should leave sky permanently... :ph34r:

Those aren't real numbers but simply an exaggeration to prove a point. BLM = Sureshot. Anyone else = effort and possible failure.
 
if you take away blm power what are they left with...
that right nothing the only thing that blm has is there power.
 
hellstorm said:
if you take away blm power what are they left with...
that right nothing the only thing that blm has is there power.
what about the pimp af hat?
 
Lavi said:
And a shitty LS that can't even MB on Kirin because it's a "waste" should leave sky permanently... :ph34r:
I couldn't tell if that statement was sarcasm or not, but it's most definitely a waste of time to MB Kirin. Zerg with melee, and Blm dump all thier MP on it. Real DoT comes from melee, not the group of extraordinary gentlemen.
 
_Neosquall_ said:
I couldn't tell if that statement was sarcasm or not, but it's most definitely a waste of time to MB Kirin. Zerg with melee, and Blm dump all thier MP on it. Real DoT comes from melee, not the group of extraordinary gentlemen.
Conjecture. Both strategies work well, neither one is inherently better than the other, unless you just have an overabundance of people to throw at Kirin.
 
_Neosquall_ said:
I couldn't tell if that statement was sarcasm or not, but it's most definitely a waste of time to MB Kirin. Zerg with melee, and Blm dump all thier MP on it. Real DoT comes from melee, not the group of extraordinary gentlemen.

ES is 10 mins. You and another melee can't be bothered 4-5 times during the fight to save TP, make a SC and let the BLMs unload? Heck, you can do it "manaburn"(not really, but you get the idea) style, load the alliance with BLMs and see the HP bar drop and it will, I guarantee you that. A MB adds what, 20-30% damage to a single spell? Add that to the fact BLMs are resisted almost every spell and only once every 10 mins with ES do they do really do the amazing damage that brings a grin to every BLM. No no, that would be a waste...
 
Kirin is a pussy, he can be killled either way easily. DM is nothing, you are obviously an idiot to have had so much trouble with it in the first place.

Beat something that someone actually gives a damn about and then talk down to me, you fucking noob.
 
And what shitty BLM can only do damage with Elemental Seal? Christ merit some elemental magic. Use your AF hands if you gotta. It's called adapting, as opposed trying to stick your dick in a light socking and keep humping over and over.
 
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