Ok tell me why...

Shaidalyn said:
I did not say "do enfeeble only" I said thats the only job OF a Rdm, rest is a perk. Your response shows youre a fucking idiot. If I have to buff other people the WhM sucks and would be kicked, or I'd warp. Whoopie fucking do.
Stop being so fucking dense and read.
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I apologise so what you are saying is that "RDM only HAVE TO enfeeble" the rest is a "perk", just like you said "WHM only HAVE TO cure" the rest is a "perk". But if the WHM doesn't take advantage of the "perk" they are shitty. So therefore if a RDM doesn't take advantage of the "perk" then they must also be shitty. Which is conveniently exactly what if just fucking said, and i'm the idiot who needs to learn to read?

And also your attitude of "i'm a rdm they won't kick me even if i suck" isn't going to get you anywhere except shitty parties, because it takes 6 people to make a party 1 idiot to break it. Also i would be suprised if you managed to get into a static like that.

Now for the love of god realise that you are wrong or at least stop contradicting yourself and present a reasonable arguement.
 
My goodness, you would think that after 2+ years red mages (and up and coming rdms) would just figure this all out. Its not a matter of being able to do everything including meleeing, its where your priorities should be: to kill mobs fast and continue killing mobs fast, even moreso, killing NONSTOP. Ask yourself, how do you do that?

Will your sword with enspell be more effictive doing 30 dmg vs a hasted melee that can do that by considerably more per hit? Or did you waste enspell mp, or opportunities to Regen MP in which you couldve used on something else like a MB, dot, enfeeble, or haste?

IMO SE should just nerf swords for PLD/RDM, that way plds will just use a staff and the TP issue becomes less for the Rdms to complain about (lol staff), and rdms dont waste time engaging a mob during an XP PT.

My thoughts - If you're happy with a 3k an hour pick up PT with a meleeing rdm that can do everything, thats fine, but not everyone is. Even at 6k an hour, I myself playing as rdm, found it pointless (quite early on) to do anything but enfeeble/haste/heal/rest mp. I also believe RDM meleeing is a fad from the allakazham board that people seem to deem as truth, and continue to. [Not to say they can't, rather, why bother]

If there is a WHM in the PT, the RDM should be helping to hasting the melees, because the WHM need time to Regen MP... You're not given haste to benefit yourself. Think logically for a minute, will the WHM get much time to rest during a fight? With a NIN tank I could see a dedicated WHM (and I have) that likes to haste everyone and has no problem with it. But, Haste is usually cast near the end of fights, and between pulls so it lasts the duration of a fight, but between pulls is prime time for WHM will rest their MP... 4-5 people to haste is not always an easy load on a WHM's responsibilities. RDM usually stands so the winner is. . . quite clear IMO where priorities are in who can help haste - to partially help out to be a more efficient and effective party member.

And if you have a Bard rather than WHM, Rdms will usually haste people on their own, so in other words... YOU HASTE. I'm sure some people here have no problem booting RDM's that get prissy, and will boot before you even get the satisfaction of warping out on them. It's also quite easy to say you do your job well, even I can say that for a job I've never levelled: "I can play DRK really well, my ABSORB-CHR makes me a valuable PT member so I'll always get parties!" Not true is it?

I've met only two bad WHMS, ten-fold that at least on RDMs.
 
I'd like to add that last night I gained the refresh spell on my rdm. We didn't have a whm, so it was me and another rdm... The other rdm didn't manage to hit 41 by the time I left.. so he acted as the main heal.

My duties last night were enfeebling, refresh, and mb... (and backup cures) I missed a few mb's because I was mid cast on another spell. I'd like to say, that I don't see how "I" can jump in and melee just now.. I'm just getting used to the refresh cycle, and I have no real experience with what is coming.. Last night's party was really quick at finishing the mob. So, before I could sit down and try to catch one or two ticks.. There as another target for me to "enfeeble". After last night's experience with refresh as an addition to my duties, I don't see how I can jump in and melee.. the mobs were to short lived for me to give my attention to anything other than the fight. That might change as I get more accustomed to Red Mage's routine.. we shall see. I'm still not going to bitch at a rdm that parties with my whm or blm that jumps in to melee, so long as they keep me refreshed along with their other responsibilities.

I want to add, my highet job is a whm, I'd like to think I do really well at it, I've not had any complaints. My routine is this: I haste the tank, but only because I want to make sure it's done, I don't personally feel every situation warrants the dd's to be hasted... Sometimes the tank is having a hard enough time holding hate, so haste becomes a tool for the tank to hold hate better.. (if the rdm isn't I'll also haste anyone that's subbing nin as well) I regen the tank, and anyone that isn't getting hit regularly and only needs to be "capped off". Also, often times I'll paralzye the mob, or pick an enfeeble I don't see the rdm doing... I flash the mob when they're trying to get off a cure IV, or an utsusemi.. I do status removals... I buff the party before fights, or after.. not during.. I try got my bar-a spells done as soon as the puller gets back within range.. all this while I cure like mad on whoever needs it. Rarely does a rdm have to help me cure. I don't generally run out of mp during the first 3 fights unless the puller has close mobs to draw off of. If I have a good refresher, I don't have to worry about MP. As a 65 Taru whm/smn I have a pretty decent mp bank. I use a seer's Tunic, reverend sash, and dark staff as a macro to rest every chance I get... not like I have to worry about tp... LoL then I use my other macro to equip my normal gear. Here of late I've stopped using pies, or mushroom stew as I've found I do just as well without it. I use cookies now to boost my mp recovery.

There's my two gil, hit me back .. appears I may be changing my viewpoint on melee'ing rdm's... I hope I get good enough as rdm to be able to smack the mob once or twice though...
 
I had a really long reply to this thread but accidently hit the back button on my browser and it was lost. ;( Maybe it was for the best.
 
reply

can you give us a quick synopsis ?

I'm up in the air still on melee'ing rdm.

after getting refresh last night and seeing firsthand how much casting I'll be doing.. I've resolved to sit in the back in decent exp pt's and stay safe away from AOE's...

BUT, if I get in a bad sloooow pt.. I might still ask if I can jump in and throw a couple swings. But I somehow doubt that I'll be doing that unless I get really bored, or have some wild hair up my tail pipe...

so, I guess I'll withdraw from this argument and admit to being wrong in my initial opinion. I said I wasn't certain, and didn't have the experience, but I am convinced that a rdm before dispel, and refresh has all the right to jump in with their sword.. if they jump in with a club.. I'll laugh..

after refresh and dispel and all the other enfeebles that come into play at that time.. melee'ing is increasingly difficult to do, and most situations warrant that it is more beneficial to the party and gained exp to stand back.

That is all... I'm thank you all for the advice you've given. We should have more civil debates such as this one, instead of all the mudslinging I see in so many other threads.
 
Shaidalyn said:
I'm a RdM, in all honesty I can do whatever I want and still get invites.
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As a 72 bard this makes me want to kill myself a little.

Learn to play your job.
 
Gir is either talking about a different Cinder or he was in a skill-up party with him....He was a member of my static for over a year and we got great XP when we went out. I suppose you could argue that with a static you get used to dealing with the member's individual style so you learn to compensate for one-another to some degree. Suffice to say I don't agree with Gir at all on the Cinder issue. Thank you.
 
This is the most A.D.D thread i have ever read in my entire life.

and I have been alive for 19 years.
 
dedalius said:
As a 72 bard this makes me want to kill myself a little.

Learn to play your job.
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Thats not what its about. Its about others thinking they're so enlightened that they know what you can and cant do in any given situation, even when they're proven wrong. Insecurity, basicly.
 
Darkstar said:
This is the most A.D.D thread i have ever read in my entire life.

and I have been alive for 19 years.
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It's the flameboard. Shit almost never stay on topic.
 
Shroud said:
Thats not what its about. Its about others thinking they're so enlightened that they know what you can and cant do in any given situation, even when they're proven wrong. Insecurity, basicly.
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I'm not making a commentary about what people can and can't do. But what Shaidalyn is saying is what gives bards and rdms bad reps. While I've never played rdm myself, I know what to expect from a good rdm. What Shaidalyn does is not even close. Not hasting? That's like a bard refusing to minuet.

Then she goes and makes this statement about she can do whatever she wants becuase she'll get invites anyway. It just makes me want to cry that the job of refresher has shitty players like this infesting it.
 
Uzor said:
No, a RDM's job is to decrease downtime, we're the "Jack of all trades", not "Masters of one". Enfeebling is one way to decrease downtime, helping out the other jobs is another, and refreshing is another one too. They are all tools we use in order to utilize our job.

A WHM's job is to heal? Then who is supposed to cast raise and protect/shell/bar-spells etc.
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Right, thats what I am getting at RDM primary job is to enfeeble the mob, all the other thing we do are added monus to assist with decreasing downtime. But they are not the primary function of the RDM. That is why we dont specialize in anything except enfeebling.

Also, I haste other members of the PT, usually the WHM will send a /tell and ask which ones I want to haste, and we go about doing our thing, and help and SUPPORT one another in the pt. For instance, Say the tank is in yellow and WHM has uber hate, Ill toss the Cure III or IV to help out, thats just one example of support. But getting back on topic I do not see how swinging a sword would inhibit a RDM from doing all of the above lol.
 
Padington said:
Gir is either talking about a different Cinder or he was in a skill-up party with him....He was a member of my static for over a year and we got great XP when we went out. I suppose you could argue that with a static you get used to dealing with the member's individual style so you learn to compensate for one-another to some degree. Suffice to say I don't agree with Gir at all on the Cinder issue. Thank you.
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What I'm talking about is an old issue back when I pt'd a handful of times with him on my whm in the 40's. Hope things have changed since then, though he was bad enough at the time for it to leave a mark.
 
Rdm meleeing doesn't inhibit the rdm from doing rdm duties, but It also doesn't do much for the pt if your swinging enough times for ws/sc's. Throw a nuke or 2 and you will do 3x the damage than trying to hit the mob for 1-XX damage meleeing. I was in a pt (VoS) with a blm that thought it was cool todo vorpal scyth, rather than just magic burst and rest mp.

Rdm's should at the least be swapping out a dark staff and sometimes your light staff. I normaly use dark/light/thun/ice/wind and earth if I have that staff.
 
Nifal said:
But getting back on topic I do not see how swinging a sword would inhibit a RDM from doing all of the above lol.
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Because most stop being effective enough for the reason we invited them out for. I really don't care what anyone does as long as the reason we invite them is getting done.

The RDM I had earlier tonight en-whatevered his sword and aggro'd a water elemental nearby. He was still doing his job, although we did notice his dispelling and enfeeb was a little bit slower.

Hell I partied with a bard who was hitting crabs with his staffs, he was fucking amazing, we didn't say anything and let him have his fun.

For every one of you RDMs who say you can melee and be awesome the rest of us encounter 10 or so shitty ones that can't do it.

Although I have a hard time debating whether the AFK monk, the slow SATA setup THF or the meleeing RDM is a bigger pain in the ass of late.
 
GhostinmyShell said:
Although I have a hard time debating whether the AFK monk, the slow SATA setup THF or the meleeing RDM is a bigger pain in the ass of late.
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i hate that guy.
 
This topic emerges every 6 months. Someone will post, and everyone will come to the sme conclusion again and again.

Best to just let them get it out of thier system now.
 
They got it out last time. I personally feel, let people play the way they want to, but you know everyone is a paying customer and they will bitch and moan about everything. like Darwin said "the internet is like gravity...no matter what you do there will always be someone to hit you on the head and tell you it's wrong" I like that.
 
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