Painted

A

Alobont

Airship Passenger
Adventurer
Joined
Mar 12, 2006
Messages
168
Painted stole a 100cc from our Dynamis-Windy run. Up until that moment he has been a very good player, always did what was asked had zero problems for about a year.

Heres the back ground.

My Linkshells Rules: (Bolded for making a point)

1. Run time: Saturday 9cst / 10est

2. Attendance: 2 unexcused absences will result in a total loss of points. 3 excused absences in a 5 week period will result in a 50% loss of points. Emergencies will happen and we will handle things on a case by case. If you are in the game you are with us, no acceptions. EXP/Merits/NMs/Missions are not acceptable excuses for missing a run, that being said special permissions are allowed for missions and possible nms.

3. Lotting System: Everyone must have a wish list to be able to lot,there are no exceptions to this. Jobs on wish lists need to be a minimum of level 70. When you win a piece of relic armor, you will lose a total of points that is the differance between your point total and the person below you + 1. In the event of a tie both people will lot and, the winner will lose the points from the person who is second inline. Secondary lots only happen once there are no Main lots for that peice of relic, 2 points are deducted for a secondary lot.

You can lot either on 100cc or relic per run those on 100cc list are not in any order, and all on 100cc list can lot on it. If an item is going to be free lot it will be free lot 70+,50+,0+.
There are 2 seperate lists for points, one for dreamlands and one for City and Icelands, which means 2 seperate lot lists for those zones.

City and Icelands: 1 main lot and 1 sublot
Dreamlands: 1 Main lot, 1 sublot, 1 accessory or -1 af.

4. Points: 1 point will be awarded for being early(in the zone and ready to go 15 min early), 1 point for doing the run, and 1 point for staying to farm after the defeat of the mega boss. 3 points maximum per run.

5. Sponsoring: We will allow sponosring of runs only by those who are working on upgrading relic weapons. If we find a sponsor selling coins for profit, they will not be allowed to sponsor ever again. If you wish to sponsor a run please send Bankim or Alobont a PM or a /tell and we'll discuss it.

6. Drama: We want to have as little drama as possible, and we will not tolerate harrassment of any kind. We may take actions in the event of harrassment, but i hope we'll never have to this is not limited to a ban from the shell.

7. Jobs: We may ask you to go as a certain job you have leveled if needed, it may not be your favorite job, but it may be needed to win the zone. We thank you for not complaining about being asked to go as a different job.

8. Member Removal: This applies to Sacks only, only Alobont and Bankim can authorize the removal of a member. If a Sack removes somone with out authorization they will lose all points and lotting rights for 1 or 2 runs or possibly be kicked out of the shell.
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Now they way i do lot lists is as follows, it has been done like this since day Fucking one. Since some people dont grasp the concept of lotting 100cc or Relic I always put Relic as priority over the 100cc regardless of what order they put it in. You either have 100cc on your list and nothign else or you have a relic peice. Pretty cut and dry. If you put something like say DNC as your secondary and a 100cc as your main then you are put on DNC main lot.

What Happened:

We are in Windy and doing pretty good makin killer time seen some drops when a 100CC drops. I called out thsoe who were on the list to lot and they did. Painted proceeds to send me a tell saying he is on 100cc list. We are in the middle of a large pull so I give him the go ahead to lot, to just cover bases while I check his list. (We were getting coins in so fast that it was gonna drop sooner rather then later.)

Painted proceeds to lto and wins and the coin falls. As it turns out he had DNC on his list secondary and 100cc main. So that makes him DNC main following the rules above. He then proceeds to refuse to give the coin back after multiple attempts at being asked to do so politely. After several more attempts of getting the coin back and another 100cc falling in the lot pool, I tell him to leave and he warps and we break pearl accordingly.

I frapsed the entire run so i can put video up if anything needs to be proven.

Seriously watch out for him, learning the rules seems to hard of a task for this guy.
 
While I know someone is going to be like "oh well you told him to lot it, so it's ok" which is bs. Even if you did, any decent person would of given it back to the person who rightfully won it. I'd agree, avoid him, doesn't sound like he can be trusted.
 
What a dick, never did like the guy to be honest.
 
You told him to lot, just sayin'. You should've had told him to lot without checking first. Even if he was right and the coin dropped before you could check, he could've just /random'd to see if he beat whatever the highest lot was. Sorry, but he isn't the only person at fault here, and making a whole thread about it and expecting everyone to avoid the guy because of a mutual fuck up is a bit silly. Sure, he should've passed, but you shouldn't have told him to lot either.
 
Rappa said:
You told him to lot, just sayin'. You should've had told him to lot without checking first. Even if he was right and the coin dropped before you could check, he could've just /random'd to see if he beat whatever the highest lot was. Sorry, but he isn't the only person at fault here, and making a whole thread about it and expecting everyone to avoid the guy because of a mutual fuck up is a bit silly. Sure, he should've passed, but you shouldn't have told him to lot either.
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Yeah, I was thinking this same thing last night. I decided not to post until later. I'm not saying I disagree with this complete flame because I agree that he should of gave it back, since it's actually trade-able. But you did tell him to lot, which I'd rather have someone on the list to not lot something than someone not on the list to lot something.

Also, I don't know if this is just me but I don't see a clear "relic can only be primary" in the rules. I see 100cc or relic, but his primary is 100cc. By just reading your exact rules, I would still assume that 100cc would be his primary. Reading the rest of your post, I understand that if relic is your secondary and 100cc is your primary then the relic becomes your primary.

Bottom line of what I'm trying to say is:

He's a dick for not returning it, but at the same time you did tell him to lot and your rules aren't really clear enough.
 
Well, after me and Justin debated this over skype, I kinda agree with him now. Your rules are really odd? I don't think I've heard of having something primary and not being able to lot it, I can see why he maybe felt cheated out of an item. And what Justin said above is also true, your rules are kinda distorted and maybe you should clear them up a little so it's easier to understand. That way covering your back for future instances.
 
Yeah, to throw in another point after discussing it more, I would call this guy a complete dick if the flame was like "You can only have 100cc or Relic. He had 100cc as Primary and Relic as secondary and Relic dropped and he lotted it and won it. But relic was his secondary and others had it as their primary so he stole it." The whole Relic becomes your primary thing is so odd to me. Why not just tell him "if you lot the 100cc you can't have Relic as your secondary so either switch Relic to primary or just lot the 100cc." Personally, I would of gave it back if it would of cost such a problem but I would of still been upset about the situation. But if I wasn't such a nice guy, I would of kept it as well.
 
JP said:
Yeah, to throw in another point after discussing it more, I would call this guy a complete dick if the flame was like "You can only have 100cc or Relic. He had 100cc as Primary and Relic as secondary and Relic dropped and he lotted it and won it. But relic was his secondary and others had it as their primary so he stole it." The whole Relic becomes your primary thing is so odd to me. Why not just tell him "if you lot the 100cc you can't have Relic as your secondary so either switch Relic to primary or just lot the 100cc." Personally, I would of gave it back if it would of cost such a problem but I would of still been upset about the situation. But if I wasn't such a nice guy, I would of kept it as well.
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I think the point of it is is to give people that already have their relic gear incentive to stay in the shell. In lamens term, I think it means we'll supply you with gil or currency for relic weapon if you stay despite having your AF2.
 
Romper said:
I think the point of it is is to give people that already have their relic gear incentive to stay in the shell. In lamens term, I think it means we'll supply you with gil or currency for relic weapon if you stay despite having your AF2.
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I know the purpose of getting 100cc, I've been in Dynamis shells that do that. The actual rule is what gets me. Relic becomes your primary if you set it as your secondary if 100cc is your primary. I understand saying you can only have one, but if 100cc was his primary, then that's his primary. There shouldn't be any "well you set Relic as your secondary so you can't have it."
 
Its done that way because, he apparently wants DNC relic, but eh can enver lot of hes on 100cc list. Lotting the 100cc completely removes you from the relic list. So ahd DNC relic dropped and no one was maining it and he was up to lot he couldnt lot it because you cant lot relic and the coin.

Hence why ive always put relic first. I will clear up the rules as I see where it can be confusing. Im more mad at the fact that there was no reasoning with him. He refused to give the coin back and let us sort out and explain things. Hes a decent player but its just gil in the end, he was selling the coin for gil.
 
Ive also explained this in the linkshell several times, sorry forgot to mention that.
 
That still doesn't really clear it up for me still really. I'm not trying to be negative in anyway, if I see "Main:100cc Sub:DNC" then he's on 100cc unless he tells me otherwise.
 
Because an idiot decided to point it out, I meant, Sub: DNC
 
That's the way my shells have always done it too - if main is 100cc, rot is relic, and they both drop - but nobody's on relic, yea it'd be completely within the rules to get both if that's how the cookie crumbled. I mean, if the piece was gonna rot and NOBODY was on it - why the hell not give it to someone that can use it? The rules stipulated though if *other* people had that piece as their rot item and wanted to lot it, and the dude already got the 100cc piece, the others lotting it would get preference and he wouldn't be able to lot it in that situation. Make sense?
 
I guess I don't understand. The guy obviously wanted the coin more. In his comment he had the coin as his main lot. At that point it would make sense to just ignore his secondary lot. I've been in shells so many times that had random secondary lots. Hell, when Rappa and I ran dumbamis people did that all the time and we didn't even have a system where secondary lots mattered. I just told people to get rid of it. It's annoying that he took the coin, but the rule doesn't make sense. He had it as his main lot. Secondary shouldn't have mattered. You should just say "If you're lotting a coin you can't have a secondary lot" and call it a day. That will save you big headaches in the future with people who don't really understand the rules. If I were in this guys position, I'd be pretty upset that my search comment didn't matter and I got screwed out of a coin. I get why he kept it.
 
Is that to me Shady? Because I get the whole lotting system. I understand his rules for the most part. I had tons of Dynamis shells so I know how it works. What I'm pointing out is, why is there a Relic over 100cc priority if you have them both set? If he has 100cc main then that's what his main should be. This is why most of the shells I was in had us set our stuff before we entered and they looked at everyone's seacom to make sure there would be no conflicts.
 
JP said:
I know the purpose of getting 100cc, I've been in Dynamis shells that do that. The actual rule is what gets me. Relic becomes your primary if you set it as your secondary if 100cc is your primary. I understand saying you can only have one, but if 100cc was his primary, then that's his primary. There shouldn't be any "well you set Relic as your secondary so you can't have it."
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That's not what I meant? I'm saying that they'd rather not have AF2 just bye dropped if someone could use it even if it's not your primary. I think the rule means if you DON'T have a NEED for AF2 than you can have primary lot on 100cc; otherwise if you can primary the 100cc and secondary the AF, and no one is on that AF list except you you're already getting that loot. Is it fair for a person that won their AF2 to also be rolling on 100cc? Imo, no because they already got something desirable. Again, I think the 100cc primary is only there for people that really don't need to be there; which is why I said "I think it means we'll supply you with gil or currency for relic weapon if you stay despite having your AF".
 
Romper said:
That's not what I meant? I'm saying that they'd rather not have AF2 just bye dropped if someone could use it even if it's not your primary. I think the rule means if you DON'T have a NEED for AF2 than you can have primary lot on 100cc; otherwise if you can primary the 100cc and secondary the AF, and no one is on that AF list except you you're already getting that loot. Is it fair for a person that won their AF2 to also be rolling on 100cc? Imo, no because they already got something desirable. Again, I think the 100cc primary is only there for people that really don't need to be there; which is why I said "I think it means we'll supply you with gil or currency for relic weapon if you stay despite having your AF".
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wow.. That made no sense at all.
 
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