philosophy of suicide.

Point being there are other alternatives to suicide that can end others suffering and have a less dramatic way of ending things. Its like drug addicts, the only way to change is to take yourself out of the environment that is making you do the things you do.

this has been said a couple times in different posts in different ways, but i'm particularly fond of how you phrased this.

thanks to the majority of posters for making this a constructive discusion. I appreciate it.
 
If you want to kill yourself ... go for it... its your choice... i like most others probably agree that it is a horrendously bad one but it is still your choice to make.

This is extremely bad advice for one important reason: Most suicides are comitted by people who have mental issues such as depression, the reasoning is commonly that they're a burden to others. If you're a billionaire and you lose it all and are now homeless, then okay, it works, bad choice but still your choice. It's when you think you're doing something that you're not that it's bad, it's akin to the people who jump off buildings that think they can fly (more common than you'd think) you wouldn't tell them it's their choice, you'd tell them, no, they can't actually fly. When you think you're helping loved ones but only end up causing more harm, then you should tell them that it's not what they should do.

Basically if a suicide is a very very rational choice that looks at all aspects "I'll never be able to remake my billions, and all I cared about was money, and I don't really care what my friends+family will think or feel after I'm gone, so here it goes", then your advice applies, but more often than not, it's broken logic that causes a suicide (I'm being helpful, I can fly, etc...)

---

Also to everyone who react angrily to the idea of suicide, tell people they're selfish, and such, you must consider the causes of suicide. When it's a clinical condition causing the suicidal feelings, normal logic doesn't apply, and telling someone that they're selfish (whether or not it's true) is NOT a good thing, you make them feel guilty for wanting to kill themselves and being selfish, so they'll see themselves as even more worthless, and causing more grief to their loved ones, making suicide seem even more like they're "relieving a burden" (It doesn't matter that it doesn't make sense that killing yourself will relieve the burdern caused by wanting to kill yourself, that's how many people will think).

A fatal mistake many people think is that suicide is done by perfectly "sane" people. More often than not there's an underlying condition causing such feelings, as such, the normal rules of argument don't apply. You try attacking the problem logically, and you'll end up being frustrated, telling these people that their life isn't even bad doesn't work either. Most suicides are caused by people with perfectly nice lives with little to no "real" problems.

The fact is, life isn't easy. No one gets a free ride. Even the people that seem like they have it all have problems, have sorrow, and have angst. But you have a little respect for yourself, and the people who love you, and you suck it up and live another day. If you don't like your life, you change it. And don't give me "it's too hard" or "I don't have the means." If there is a will, there's a way.
Quotes like these make perfect sense, and seem like the right thing to say, but when someone is depressed, something like this can be deadly. It's important to realize without medication and/or professional help, they can't help but to feel suicidal. A quote like this makes the person then feel guilty for not being strong willed enough to do something about it, or guilty about how their life isn't as a bad as a hungry kid in africa yet can't handle it, which just feeds into their self guilt, which amplifies the problem.

It's a very difficult problem to talk to someone who's suicidal, normal arguments and rules may not apply. I don't have a good method for helping someone out, I wish I did, I'd say what I tried to do, but more often than not my attempts at helping were met with utter failure (person was either angry at me after, or even more sad+guilty). At best I can say what doesn't seem to work, or what doesn't seem to be good things to say/attempt.
 
Sorry, but I have to question the sincerity of the OP's desire for discourse into this topic, when a response of

i was seeking a discussion, not help. and i posted in the RL section, not the game section. but thank you for taking the time to give a predictable response.

ended with a ;)

is given to a reply of

i highly suggest seeking professional help, in lieu of "philosophical discussion" on a gaming-related message board concerning this extremely sensitive and inflammatory topic.

I wasn't suggesting that the OP seek help; I would have said "I highly suggest *you* seek professional help . . ." if that were the case.

It seems to me that the OP made his mind up about the entire thing prior to posting, and simply wanted to gauge how many people shared his sentiments. The answer to that gauge is "hardly any" as far as this thread's contents go, and that's expected 100%.

Raesvelg's response of
To say "my suicide would be best for everyone" is just self-justification for selfish gratification. You're not committing suicide to please other people, you're committing suicide because you don't want to deal with the problems you perceive yourself to be causing, intentionally or inadvertently.
was incendiary compared to mine, and I won't even get started on what Myrrh had to say, as he and I have been discussing it since yesterday. Suffice it to say, Myrrh is holding himself back and showing a large amount of tact that he normally wouldn't, considering this thread's topic.


In conclusion: responses ended with a "wink" emote indicate, at least to me, a level of snobbery on the part of the person replying towards the views expressed in what they're replying to.
 
I'm not trying to press this Uzor but since I don't know the entire situation at all by any means I will tell you what my mind wandered about the 1st instance.

What if you were part of the reason behind this? Was you and your peers "dislike" and "hatred" a contributing factor? We have these problems here in the states and it's people like this that normally lead to Columbine or Virginia Tech..

What about them? The parents could of been a high contributing factor of stress and anger and depression. They could have been physically and mentally abusive to the girl no?

Like I said I don't know the whole story but those were just some of the thoughts that peaked into my mind. If indeed she was just little sally I love the world, bang, fuck this I'm out. Then I'm wrong but then again why should anyone have to justify their suicide to our society who isn't very tolerable of the subject in the 1st place
The reason I disliked her wasn't really the reason you think. She was rich, had many friends that all acted the same way she acted, and I was myself. I didn't pretend to be someone I wasn't, and for that reason, she didn't like me and took every chance she could to make fun of me. On the other hand, I made fun of her back. I wasn't exactly innocent, no. She was the bullier, kind of, and I fought back. You know how I am, on here too. I say what I think, and don't try to change myself to please someone else. And I love to argue, so I argued with her.

So yes, I could have been part of the contributing factor, which is one of the reason I, too, were affected by her suicide.

As for her family, it is the typical "Child don't feel love" situation. She was the only child, however, her parents worked too much, which ment she had to entertain herself a lot. Which I personally believe lead to her depression.

Most persons that contemplate suicide are normal people which seemingly normal lives. The most common factor of those not suffering from a clinical depression where their brains don't produce enough "happy drugs", is that they act completely normal so that their family and friends don't notice anything is wrong, and they don't talk about it. They keep it inside and don't share with others, and thus get depressed. They don't seek out help for their problems and try to solve them themselves, but don't see an easy, obvious solution for their problems. Eventually it becomes too much, and suicide seem like the easiest solution to the problem.

At first it can be like a joke, but eventually evolves in to something more serious, until they actually contemplate it. However, even then, it takes a lot for them to actually go through with it.

In the case of my classmate, as I mentioned earlier, her parents worked a lot. She's had no one to really talk to through her childhood, and didn't get enough stimulation as a child. She felt bad, sad and depressed, and took it out on others.

By the time a person contemplates suicide, doesn't mean they're anywhere near actually committing suicide. In most cases when a person commits suicide, they've usually been depressed for years until they build up the courage to commit suicide. A temporary depression lasting a few months isn't enough for a person to actually commit suicide in most cases. And in the case of the columbine shootings etc. I'd venture a guess and say said people are the quiet ones that don't speak a lot and keep to themselves mostly.

Either way, Kohra, if you're depressed and actually contemplate suicide, talk to someone. If you can't build up the courage to speak with a friend or family, and don't want to go to a psychiatrist or something, seek out someone else. Can be a teacher or someone at school, like the school nurse. Its better to talk about it with someone, even if they can't give you any tips how to solve your problems, its always good to speak out about it and have someone just listen, anyone.

Also, its always good to have goals in life. Doesn't have to be anything huge like "Become president", but small achievable things to fight for, and constantly set up new goals in life which you then struggle for. Can be something small at first, like "Get an A on my next test", and build from there. And don't be saddened if you don't reach your goal at first, its ment as a goal to struggle for, so keep going at it. Although you need 1 big long-time goal to struggle for.

As for your problems, don't know what they are, but problems have a bad tendency to get solved eventually. Don't take them all on at once, you'll find yourself overwhelmed, which will lead to depression eventually. But them all on hold and deal with 1 problem at a time. Take one day at a time, and find something in life that makes you happy and that you enjoy doing. Be it football, poker, FFXI or ballet.
 
Take one day at a time, and find something in life that makes you happy and that you enjoy doing. Be it football, poker, FFXI or ballet.

FFXI is horrible for suicidal people lol. This game is one giant ball of disappointment =P Unless a person is suicidal due to a lack of social contact I guess.
 
The fact of the matter is you shouldnt even be considering suicide as an option. Period.

There are ALWAYS solutions to any problems, even if it means moving to a different country and completely starting over, there is happiness out there for every single human being.

If you are having trouble finding it, fucking look harder.

I believe everything happens for a reason, and your unhappiness has logic behind it as well. You just need to really look at yourself analytically and figure out the true reasons behind your depression and peruse these issues.

Be it friends or family that are causing any problems, or a fucker of a boss, ANYTHING, go directly to that source and confront it.


I hardly ever come on these forums, so i doubt ill be back to read the thread.

But truly...best of luck to you.
 
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after all the bullshit is said and done it's your choice, just like any other choice in life

just know that suicide is the coward's way out, and no one respects a coward. everyone will remember you for killing yourself and nothing else
 
i havent read all of the posts within this thread, however, my take on this as well as my experience is....

through my 30 years of existance, i have been through the ups and downs of my personal emotions. also, over that period of time, i have come to have a sort of epiphany. this theory or sort that i have come to believe is that everything happens for a reason. good or bad, it happened to create the history of the world/a single person/a group of people/ etc. example: (personal experience) person A joins the military, person B also joins the military. 3 years from that point, they meet, get married. a year later, a child is born that both love dearly. where the twist comes in, is that without those 2 people choosing to join the military, the exact child that was born would not have ever come into existance.

along with that, since that was one of my personal experiences, my wife at the time couldnt get along. we got divorced. would i want to take back at the bad idea that i had of getting married to her....absolutely not. if i took that back, my son wouldnt have been born. and thus history for me from that point would have changed drastically.

same thing goes for anyone that thinks suicide is a viable option. by taking the big decision of suicide, that ends all possible options/choices from that point forward. if a person that chose suicide took back that choice and replaced it with the gift of life, a great something could have happened for them in the future. whether its a great career, true love, a great family, great experiences...whatever.

problem with people that think suicide is the way out is because they think they have so many problems and they have it oh so hard in life. there is always someone that has it just as hard if not harder. if that person thinks that nothing is going for them, at that time, it may be true. but everyone gets their own turn.

my personal opinion states that suicide is a rediculous option that is self centered. those people dont "think" that anyone cares for them or whatever. most threaten it for attention. but when i have known people that commited suicide, it impacts more people than they originally would have thought.
 
People always use someone has it harder out there but what about those people that actually have it the hardest >.>
 
I have it pretty hard, Grand. I'll never kill myself no matter how sad my life gets. I will see every last miserable day to the end. Things can always get better. Granted, they can always get worse but I will still wake up the next morning. Life is short and very precious. It should not be wasted.
 
Simple formula, really.
If you have internet, then that means you either have some form of income or you have some sort of transportation to access a computer. Some people have no income, or access to technology. You're better off than them.
If you're posting on a message board, you are, for the most part, literate. You're better off than a lot of people.
Hell, if you're typing you're better off than people who are missing their fingers or hands.
So yeah, it's easy to say on the internet because it's more likely than not true.
 
What about that guy in Zimbabwe that's always sending me e-mails that says he has no legs and arms and is a blind deaf mute with aids that's going to kill me if I don't repost this message in 10 minutes he seems pretty bitter..
 
He's a limbless deafmute though. Just like... poke him with a fork until he bleeds. Problem solved. Just don't touch the blood :<
 
People always use someone has it harder out there but what about those people that actually have it the hardest >.>

but to determine who has it hardest, you have to define hard.
everyone has to deal with hard things that someone else may not. and vice versa. some have to deal with multiple hard things. personally, compared to everyone i know, i have it much harder than all of them. however, i believe things get always get better in some aspect.
 
It's not even about who has it hard, harder or hardest. Life isn't easy. For anyone. There's no manual, there's no perfect path... None of us asked to be brought here, but we are here. It's bumpy and it's messy, and for every beautiful, incredible moment you can experience, there may be an awful, tragic one somewhere down the line as well. The harsh fact is that life is what you make it. What you do with it, choosing to dwell on the negatives and sorrow or clawing your way through the muck and yuckiness to something better, is your business. You can spend your time pissing and moaning about how terrible it is and how you hate it, or you can pick yourself up, forgive yourself for not being perfect and not having all the right answers, and move on.
 
Thanks Zyn. Very contructive post. (and free of condescention (sp?) :thumbsup:)
 
but to determine who has it hardest, you have to define hard.
everyone has to deal with hard things that someone else may not. and vice versa. some have to deal with multiple hard things. personally, compared to everyone i know, i have it much harder than all of them. however, i believe things get always get better in some aspect.


also to add, a few months ago, i had seen a post on another site stating that age doesnt determine life experience. in some cases, its true. some of the younger crowd may experience deaths in the family before the older crowd such as myself. however, for those that are younger, a majority of them live an average life with no drastic changes of the norm for growing up. blah blah blah...ya. ive realized im blabbering atm. so, here is the point, straight up. the younger crowd believes they have had seen so much heartache or heavy issues. but they dont realize that most of the older crowd has already been there and done that. some of that older crowd being through more or even less for that matter. point being, someone has already filled a suicidal persons shoes and outwore them.

questions can be brought up to all QCDN members and you will see who has lived through what and everyone would probably be in shock to see some of the answers. no one has it easy by any means. people will always have their own personal crutch. depending on how well they cope with it determines how they want to deal with it. its typically the weaker minded people that use suicide as a way out. and i use "weak minded" lightly. by this, i mean they dont handle pressure well, i guess you could say. it is because of this that psychiatrists and counselors are holding jobs.
 
also to add, a few months ago, i had seen a post on another site stating that age doesnt determine life experience. in some cases, its true. some of the younger crowd may experience deaths in the family before the older crowd such as myself.

Too true, MO. At age 26, I've been to *attempts counting in head* 7 funerals personally, one of which was a suicide, and was a pallbearer for my great-aunt at age 16, and have had to deal with a good number of family deaths. I won't say that my life's harder because of it, just that it prevents a desensitization from death and what it does to "those who are left behind".

so, here is the point, straight up. the younger crowd believes they have had seen so much heartache or heavy issues. but they dont realize that most of the older crowd has already been there and done that. some of that older crowd being through more or even less for that matter. point being, someone has already filled a suicidal persons shoes and outwore them.

This might be a bad analogy, but I've used it before and it made sense. I recall at age 19, after being at my first job for about 4 months, talking in the office to my General Manager, and I was sighing and fretting about the state of affairs with my girlfriend of 2 months. I said something along the lines of "dammit this sucks, I just don't know how I'm going to deal with all this stress", and he (a fifty-five-year-old man) looked me dead in the eye and said, "it must be a bitch to be 19 years old, with no bills and free room/board, working part-time saving the money, whose primary concern is going to school." It definitely brings things into perspective, when laid out like that.

it is because of this that psychiatrists and counselors are holding jobs.
I laughed because it's true. Half of those yahoos aren't worth their salt, too.
 
honestly the psychiatrists and counselors dont do jack other than sit and listen. hmm kinda like a good friend.
 
honestly the psychiatrists and counselors dont do jack other than sit and listen. hmm kinda like a good friend.

Except...psychiatrists and counselors never say words of encouragement, just "I see", "how does that make you feel?", and "this is probably stemming from some long-repressed animosity towards [x person]."

Yeah, I have a very dim view of counselors.
 
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