PLD Pro's and Con's, negating weaknesses and how to improve further your strengths

[Tribalinius]

9/10? C'mon... Xemo, Ramp, Gali, Kono, sorry if I forgot anyone, have been eating those stones like their Wheaties for breakfast.

I like my Ramp with milk and strawberries, it's delicious

Joke aside, I'm more and more interested to try dynamis in /NIN. There is nothing to really do when you have 15 SAM/WAR/DRG/etc. bashing the same mob and it goes down in 2 seconds anyway. Correct me if I'm wrong but Can I assume that /NIN have a better crowd control in a shorter period than /WAR since you have more tools at your disposition? I figure the timer on tools would be back up by the time mobs wake up. I've yet to try /NIN but I'm going to check if I can sneak my way through Dynamis-Bastok on PLD/NIN tonight for a change ^^.

Any gear setup suggestion Diabllos on /NIN for Dynamis? ^^

As for PLD/DNC, well I'm concerned about the TP gain/usage and the reliability of certain moves. I'm still in the process of leveling the job, but my principal fear is about the Steps/Finishing Moves. If for any reason you miss Quick/Boxstep and you run out of Finishing Moves, besides Flash, what other viable options do you have in reserve (by the time you do that, I'm guessing timer would be back up for any step but it's just theory for me)? My guess is /DNC would work well if you have just like 1-2 mobs at camp, but things could start to get rough with more mobs than that. In my opinion, on paper, it lacks the crowd control reliability of /WAR or /NIN. All thing said, I have yet to finish to level /DNC, so it's just an outside point of view and extrapolations for now ^^.

@Hexx: I would be very interested to hear what gear setup you use as /DNC sir ^^.

 

[Bladewind]

As for PLD/DNC, well I'm concerned about the TP gain/usage and the reliability of certain moves. I'm still in the process of leveling the job, but my principal fear is about the Steps/Finishing Moves. If for any reason you miss Quick/Boxstep and you run out of Finishing Moves, besides Flash, what other viable options do you have in reserve (by the time you do that, I'm guessing timer would be back up for any step but it's just theory for me)? My guess is /DNC would work well if you have just like 1-2 mobs at camp, but things could start to get rough with more mobs than that. In my opinion, on paper, it lacks the crowd control reliability of /WAR or /NIN. All thing said, I have yet to finish to level /DNC, so it's just an outside point of view and extrapolations for now ^^.

I don't really understand here, what enmity tools does /NIN offer over /DNC?

 

[Diabllos]

Any gear setup suggestion Diabllos on /NIN for Dynamis? ^^

Well Tribalinius, it's mostly for northlands and dreamlands. If you're headed to cities, you might as well sub WAR just for claiming. It really doesn't matter in cities if you can teach your melees to grab the mobs you claim though e.g. WARs voking the mobs you target. Make sure to save Sentinel for monk types, and it should run smoothly. As long as melees are controlled, and balance their offensive and defensive traits to maximise MP efficiency and minimise deaths.

As for PLD/NIN in northlands, I can strongly recommend it. Especially if you're dealing with the Demon bosses you'll want two tanks, namely PLD/NIN and/or NIN/DRK.

Gear setup? Well, you'll want a few. You'll need a haste setup to blink into for Utsusemi, an enmity build for cures (possibly switching some HP pieces in and out during cast), a shield build for casting or when your shadows are down, and a mix of enmity and haste gear for Flash. Just remember that Shield skill does nothing while your shadows are up, and that your cures are your main source of hate. Cure bomb anyone in your alliance, preferably your co-tank or healers if possible.

If you want some more advice i'd be happy to talk to you in PM or in game.

 

[Tribalinius]

I don't really understand here, what enmity tools does /NIN offer over /DNC?

Basically anything you have on hand and available in your inventory? I would take any ninja tools you can use over a not necessarily 100% reliable 2008ish Provoke. Simply speaking, I would rather have hate even if it's paper thin than a chance of having no hate at all ^^. Inventory wise it could take some space to stack ninja tools I guess though I concede you that. As I said I've yet to test those 2 sub to get conclusions.

That or I don't understand the meaning of your question. ^^

 

[Tribalinius]

Gear setup? Well, you'll want a few. You'll need a haste setup to blink into for Utsusemi, an enmity build for cures (possibly switching some HP pieces in and out during cast), a shield build for casting or when your shadows are down, and a mix of enmity and haste gear for Flash. Just remember that Shield skill does nothing while your shadows are up, and that your cures are your main source of hate. Cure bomb anyone in your alliance, preferably your co-tank or healers if possible.

If you want some more advice i'd be happy to talk to you in PM or in game.

Thank you for the insight, very appreciated. I'll take those advices into consideration and work toward the completion of my /NIN set with that in mind ^^.

 

[Bladewind]

Basically anything you have on hand and available in your inventory? I would take any ninja tools you can use over a not necessarily 100% reliable 2008ish Provoke. Simply speaking, I would rather have hate even if it's paper thin than a chance of having no hate at all ^^. Inventory wise it could take some space to stack ninja tools I guess though I concede you that. As I said I've yet to test those 2 sub to get conclusions.

That or I don't understand the meaning of your question. ^^

I can't think of any Ichi spell that would actually generate more enmity than a single sleep/2 from the blm or rdm, sure if you're in a long fight and all timers are down i guess it doesn't hurt to spam something, because as you say a small amount of hate is better than none, but i can't see it helping much in dynamis.

 

[Bladewind]

in fairness to Dia, swapping in Gigant + Bomb queen ring is +155Hp, cure II cap is 90, so he could easily have said cure III instead, while it's true it caps at 190(? i think) if used in dynamis which is being discussed it's double dark weather and often gets a negative bonus, same for limbus and einherjar.

Back on topic of pld/war vs pld/nin for dynamis (wanted to be clear so people don't quote this later implying i claimed pld/war > pld/nin or the other way around) I don't see /nin being that useful outside of Xarcabard, i've got more experience in Einherjar than Dynamis as pld and i've found keeping hate on multiple mobs immensly easier /war, but even so i've started going /nin to higher tier wings (and obviously Odin) purely because it makes tanking/kiting the boss so much easier and more survivable (t4 nukes from Motosigner(sp) are no fun, trust me).

To sum up, pld/nin is not impossible in cities, but it's alot harder to be effective at your job than /war, in my opinion at least.

I've lost track of who's arguing which side of pld kiting stones/ blm kiting there own, but as i mentioned earlier it's not hard to do as blm and i see no reason you should take more than 1 or 2, at most, pld into a zone. (in fact i've been arguing with my shell to let me go war/pld instead of pld/war and take the place of the "back up" tank, better DD same hate tools, much the same armour etc.)

Edit: couple of posts made since i started typing so sorry if any of it is repeated, phone rang while i was typing got distracted etc. etc.

 

[Hexx]

I like my Ramp with milk and strawberries, it's delicious

Joke aside, I'm more and more interested to try dynamis in /NIN. There is nothing to really do when you have 15 SAM/WAR/DRG/etc. bashing the same mob and it goes down in 2 seconds anyway. Correct me if I'm wrong but Can I assume that /NIN have a better crowd control in a shorter period than /WAR since you have more tools at your disposition? I figure the timer on tools would be back up by the time mobs wake up. I've yet to try /NIN but I'm going to check if I can sneak my way through Dynamis-Bastok on PLD/NIN tonight for a change ^^.

Any gear setup suggestion Diabllos on /NIN for Dynamis? ^^

As for PLD/DNC, well I'm concerned about the TP gain/usage and the reliability of certain moves. I'm still in the process of leveling the job, but my principal fear is about the Steps/Finishing Moves. If for any reason you miss Quick/Boxstep and you run out of Finishing Moves, besides Flash, what other viable options do you have in reserve (by the time you do that, I'm guessing timer would be back up for any step but it's just theory for me)? My guess is /DNC would work well if you have just like 1-2 mobs at camp, but things could start to get rough with more mobs than that. In my opinion, on paper, it lacks the crowd control reliability of /WAR or /NIN. All thing said, I have yet to finish to level /DNC, so it's just an outside point of view and extrapolations for now ^^.

@Hexx: I would be very interested to hear what gear setup you use as /DNC sir ^^.

Well, again, I dont use PLD/DNC for campaign, since I am the main tank of my shell atm. In campaign however I tend to keep any shield skill + gear (Shield Mastery FTW) to help generate TP. My Joyeuse helps a lot also (due to the lack of double attack from /war) I increse my AGI to also help my shield proc more often (two drone earrings will cover this). With that in mind, I tend to keep hate by spamming cure waltz. I rarely use my MP save for Flash, Reprisal, and the occasional Cure IV in case I get hit by a nuke or big TP move. Keep Drain Samba II up at all times unless you start running out of MP in which case you switch to Aspir Samba to help replenish it. My overall set up is the following:

Weapon: Joyeuse
Off-hand: Koenig Shield
Ammo: Bibiki Seashell
Head: Either Koenig Schaller or Valor Coronet
Neck: Chivalrous Chain (macro in Parade Gorget when MP starts running low)
Earrings: Pair of Drone Earrings for the AGI boost (keep Stoic Earring on hand for Stun resist)
Body: Adaman Cuirass
Hands: Koenig Handschuhs (Dusk Gloves also good here for the Haste)
Rings: Ecphoria Ring and Hercules Ring
Back: Knightly Mantle or High Breath Mantle (depending on whether u are soloing or tryin to keep hate from a bunch of DDs)
Waist: Potent Belt (Macro in Warwolf Belt for Animated Flourish and Cures)
Legs: Iron Ram Hose (for Mag. Def. Bonus and emnity)
Feet: Gallant Leggings (for Shield skill, macro in Valor Leggings for Sentinel).

So thats my setup for soloing in campaign. Keeps me alive, and helps me keep hate when DDs jump in the fray. I can usually take on two, maybe three mobs (depends on the type of mob) with this setup. You got any more questions send me a PM

 

[Diabllos]

Weapon: Joyeuse
Off-hand: Koenig Shield
Ammo: Bibiki Seashell
Head: Either Koenig Schaller or Valor Coronet
Neck: Chivalrous Chain (macro in Parade Gorget when MP starts running low)
Earrings: Pair of Drone Earrings for the AGI boost (keep Stoic Earring on hand for Stun resist)
Body: Adaman Cuirass
Hands: Koenig Handschuhs (Dusk Gloves also good here for the Haste)
Rings: Ecphoria Ring and Hercules Ring
Back: Knightly Mantle or High Breath Mantle (depending on whether u are soloing or tryin to keep hate from a bunch of DDs)
Waist: Potent Belt (Macro in Warwolf Belt for Animated Flourish and Cures)
Legs: Iron Ram Hose (for Mag. Def. Bonus and emnity)
Feet: Gallant Leggings (for Shield skill, macro in Valor Leggings for Sentinel).

I'm just going to offer some suggestions for changes here, if you're talking PLD/DNC solo or in campaign. I won't put down what I use exactly, but there are some cheap upgrades you could do to that setup to improve it a lot (changes in bold);

Weapon: Joyeuse
Sub: Koenig Shield
Range: Lamian Kaman
Head: Walahra Turban or Koenig Schaller
Neck: Chivalrous Chain (macro in Parade Gorget when MP starts running low)
Earrings: Attack earrings until you can pickup Suppanomimi and/or Brutal and/or Loquacious.
Body: Haubergeon
Hands: Koenig Handschuhs (Dusk Gloves also good here for the Haste)
Rings: Ecphoria Ring and Hercules Ring
Back: Amemet(+1)
Waist: Swift Belt, Potent Belt (Macro in Warwolf Belt for Animated Flourish and Cures)
Legs: Iron Ram Hose (for Mag. Def. Bonus and emnity)
Feet: Gallant Leggings (for Shield skill, macro in Valor Leggings for Sentinel).

 

[Caerloc]

I would probably rather go PLD/BLM then PLD/NIn in citys, just to get acess to a -ga spell that doesnt DoT. Sleepga -> Fake cureIV macro and your golden. That way you build up hate on every mob in camp just by curing yourself from dmg on the mob your currently fighting.

 

[Hexx]

I'm just going to offer some suggestions for changes here, if you're talking PLD/DNC solo or in campaign. I won't put down what I use exactly, but there are some cheap upgrades you could do to that setup to improve it a lot (changes in bold);

Hmmm sounds good, the only thing that worries me is the W.Turbans lack of a def stat. Everything else I have save for the swift belt (no access yet ; but the rest seems to fit a lot better. Thanks for the info Diabllos! :biggrin:

 

[jamal]

Hmmm sounds good, the only thing that worries me is the W.Turbans lack of a def stat. Everything else I have save for the swift belt (no access yet ; but the rest seems to fit a lot better. Thanks for the info Diabllos! :biggrin:

Next time you campaign, wear a head piece. Write down the amounts of the hits.

Grab another mob, don't wear a head piece. Write down the amounts of the hits.

It's a very small sample size, but you'll even see there that the dmg reduction done by a negligible amount of defense in one slot isn't going to make a big difference, especially with all the benefits Haste+5 brings.

 

[Hexx]

Next time you campaign, wear a head piece. Write down the amounts of the hits.

Grab another mob, don't wear a head piece. Write down the amounts of the hits.

It's a very small sample size, but you'll even see there that the dmg reduction done by a negligible amount of defense in one slot isn't going to make a big difference, especially with all the benefits Haste+5 brings.

Is 40def and +10 VIT negligible? Hmmm ok, ill test this out tonight as well, thx Jamal.

 

[jamal]

Is 40def and +10 VIT negligible? Hmmm ok, ill test this out tonight as well, thx Jamal.

It's up to you. A defensive holding set really only works if you're going all out vit or def to pass caps, as in everything else. HNM's it never works because of their boosted attack. Defense is only really helpful when loaded on against EM or lower, and even then a haste set would well outperform it.

To note, mixing sets doesn't help in many situations at all. Specific gear sets that highlight strengths or negate weaknesses will be the most beneficial.

 

[Nicholette]

It's up to you. A defensive holding set really only works if you're going all out vit or def to pass caps, as in everything else. HNM's it never works because of their boosted attack. Defense is only really helpful when loaded on against EM or lower, and even then a haste set would well outperform it.

To note, mixing sets doesn't help in many situations at all. Specific gear sets that highlight strengths or negate weaknesses will be the most beneficial.

I used to think this was true... then I saw Deltoid tank Khimaira /war stacking vit and def, not taking much damage ever and not a single time losing hate except to I think relic rng, even kept hate over a benediction. Not saying this is the smartest way to tank nor that everyone can do it but in some rare circumstances going all out def/vit seems quite functional. I was shocked by it for sure.

I have a question for the PLD's that have tanked Tia and Khimmy, for your flash macro are you doing full enmity, full haste+enmity where there isnt haste, or some sort of mix? These are the two HNM's where I have tended to lose hate as a PLD whereas any others it has never been an issue. I currently do full enmity and its fine at first but then when I see Tiamat fly towards a blm and flash still has 15secs on the timer I am wondering if having haste wouldnt be better.

 

[LadyKiKi]

Deltoid has an Aegis though, doesn't he? I'd imagine the increased block rate + massive damage reduction from blocked actually helped more than his DEF/VIT.



And lolDEF/VIT (for HNM/high level mobs), until they fix it. Otherwise for other weird stuff like super tanking in DM or CoP Airship it'll hold some merit.

 

[Caerloc]

I used to think this was true... then I saw Deltoid tank Khimaira /war stacking vit and def, not taking much damage ever and not a single time losing hate except to I think relic rng, even kept hate over a benediction. Not saying this is the smartest way to tank nor that everyone can do it but in some rare circumstances going all out def/vit seems quite functional. I was shocked by it for sure.

I have a question for the PLD's that have tanked Tia and Khimmy, for your flash macro are you doing full enmity, full haste+enmity where there isnt haste, or some sort of mix? These are the two HNM's where I have tended to lose hate as a PLD whereas any others it has never been an issue. I currently do full enmity and its fine at first but then when I see Tiamat fly towards a blm and flash still has 15secs on the timer I am wondering if having haste wouldnt be better.

I use haste for flash, and flash every 22 seconds.

 

[Caerloc]

Deltoid has an Aegis though, doesn't he? I'd imagine the increased block rate + massive damage reduction from blocked actually helped more than his DEF/VIT.



And lolDEF/VIT (for HNM/high level mobs), until they fix it. Otherwise for other weird stuff like super tanking in DM or CoP Airship it'll hold some merit.

Fygla tanked out last Tiamat /rdm, and he hits a great deal harder then Khima, specially during mighty strikes. I couldnt even pull hate off him with invincible. Fygla doesnt have a Aegis, and no, we didnt pussysleep him, even once.

 

[LadyKiKi]

Oh ok.

 

[jamal]

Physical damage % down is a lot different than a pure def+ vit+ build. Fygla doesn't have an Aegis, but he does have a d.ring + Hauteclaire.