Requiem for a Flameboard

[Peregrine]

The people QCDN wanted around were the players on Quetzalcoatl. Taking away something that people wanted, as is obvious by the extent of it's use, without any attempts to fix it isn't an improvement. It's not like after over 2 years QCDN realized it didn't have the right people so it's changing.

The QCDN problemchildren aren't Quetza. This has become a bar with a bad reputation. Bad people come here. Bad people post here. They are not quetza. They are the worst of quetza, and they come here for the image. The image was wrong. That image is gone.

It IS like after over 2 years QCDN realized it didn't have the right people so it's changing. That's exactly what this seems to be.

 

[CubsWoo]

If that was his only reason, he wouldn't have succumbed. How many times does he have to say that QCDN will not cater to lynch mobs, no-contenters, petty cheap grudging vindictive flamers with too much memory and not enough talent to make use of it, popularity contests, and endgame superiority mentality before you start attaching his decisions to his primary motives instead of something minor?

If you don't have faith enough in admin to listen to what he's been saying, and then to put all your money into the lowest reason that can be percieved for his actions...then you put your eggs into the wrong basket in the first place and should have stayed KI.

Replace QCDN with Alla and the Flameboard with IGE and it's not hard to see the possibility of an admin saying one thing and doing another.

 

[Tec]

Think of QCDN as a Waffle House. (For those of you outside of the American south/southeast, www.wafflehouse.com ) You go to a Waffle House, what do you order most of the time?

Waffles, obviously. Sometimes with a steak or some grits or some fried chicken, but just about every time you go into Waffle House you get, suprise suprise, a waffle.

QCDN is kind of a weird Waffle House, though, where fights break out over plates of waffles. People order waffles and throw them on the walls. They steal the toilet paper. They don't tip well. But the waffles, well, they bring everyone back.

Now the waffles are gone. What's left? Why go to Waffle House when Denny's is right across the street, faster, cheaper, and easier? Sure, you deal with a lot of the dregs over at Denny's, but that Grand Slam is just as good as anything Waffle House ever offered. And don't go 'round asking for those waffles again, 'cause they ain't coming back and you can just take your business elsewhere.

That's the fallacy. It's not about it being Cubs' flameboard, or Sneaky's flameboard, or Peregrine's, or Keits', or Colbwa's, or anyone else's board.

It was the community's board. And now it's gone, and we have a community of people who loved and respected that board that have no place to call home.

That's why this post was made. If Sculli's vision of QCDN is the KI or Alla server-centric board, just hosted on his private server space, he's well on the way to accomplishing that.

I go to WH for the omelettes and you can smoke inside^^

 

[Sculli]

re: sponsors
I made some posts in Off-Topic over the past few months saying that several affiliates rejected QCDN based on their TOS. Without that any of them gave me specific reasons it was for the most part clear that the FB was the reason. Some of those who rejected QCDN were: EBGames and Yahoo Publisher Network. I think there were a bunch of others as well, I don't remember, search Off-Topic for it if you like.

Monetizing a forum such as this is difficult. It doesn't matter whether one is QCDN or any of the other sites that is not owned by a network. Most people see ads and assume I am enjoying lazy days on some beach in Hawaii with all the mad cash I am making from QCDN. The reality is far from that. The revenue is just enough to keep this place running. Look anywhere where forum admins get together (sitepoint, digitalpoint, TAZ), only rarely you will find people who actually make profit, and extremely rarely you find some who make enough cash to quit their daytime job.

The future of contests, the way I see it, is to find smaller companies such as GKWorld, who are willing to sponsor a contest a year and maybe one gigantic xmas one. GKWorld didn't have a problem with the FB, I have no way to know whether others would as I did approach more companies but have not heard back. Maybe it's because of the FB, maybe it's because of assumptions about QCDN demographics, maybe they don't sponsor contests at all, I just don't know.

The decsion to remove the FB wasn't financially motivated. Without the FB the traffic is likely to go down, less traffic = less visitors = less chances for ad revenue.

I feel so strongly that removing the FB was the right thing to do that I not only put my time where my mouth is, but also my money. I am willing to compensate for lesser ad revenue, I am willing to refund previous contributions (it would be bad if everyone would ask for their cash back, but I swear I would pay it out).

This isn't about cash or pleasing one group over another, or listening to someone's advice, or going nazi admin or any of those things. There comes a time for everyone, or at least I hope this to be true, where one asks oneself: What am I doing? How does what I am doing affect others? Am I doing the right thing?

Yeah, it's like so totally cliche, but it's also true.

The FB served those who took joy in belitteling others, demonstrating in front of a receptive audience just how inferior someone is (it didn't matter what one was inferior at, when all else failed spelling of non-native English speakers was attacked). Mob rule all the way.

You all remember the Shaw, -Shaw- thing? Regardless on how -Shaw-'s post came about, everyone assumed right away it was Shaw, and for pages and pages people used no uncertain terms to let Shaw know what they thought of his action.

Then it turned out that -Shaw- and Shaw were really at least two different people. Did anyone who was part of the stoning apologize to Shaw? Not that I saw, I guess it just wasn't necessary.

The removal of the FB is not an attempt to cover up any conflicts that arise when a lot of people are concentrated in a small area, or to pretend those conflicts are not there.

Conflicts and disagreements will persist, and there is room to post and discuss them at QCDN in such a fashion that is favorable to conflict resolution. When one has a disagreement with someone in the real world, one doesn't go over to the other guys places and let's loose a FB-quality tirade. One tends to go over and say something along the lines of: Dude, here is the problem, here is why it is a problem, here is what we can do to fix is, what say you?

There are plenty of resources out there were people can "blow off steam" to varying degrees, Alla, KI, IGN, SA, Offtopic, everywhere you will find a receptive audience to whatever your beef is. You will also find a receptive audience at QCDN, if you are able to formulate your issue in a argumentativly sound way without the inclusion of the FB-standard-issue insults.

Just as violence begets violence, negativity begets negativity. Those who were at each others throats on the FB could not keep up a normal conversation in GD. This leakage affected the entire board. Could it have been contained with more moderation while keeping the FB alive? Perhaps, but that's really not the issue.

The issue is that people ought to treat each other with respect. On the FB this was not the case, thus it had to go.

Who am I to tell you how to behave yourself toward others?
No one. You can live your life any which way you like. However, as long you are here, you will extend a basic level of respect and courtesy to your fellow QCDN member.

I agree that there are difficult members, but just as the old FB rules said, one QCDN member has no authority over another, and ganging up on a difficult member rarely changes anything for you, or that member.

How many difficult members have left QCDN just because they were not liked? None.
How many diifcult members have been banned from QCDN after the FB crowd skillfully drove those members to the breaking point, at which they snapped, got banned, and the crowd celebrated? A few.

Some people are too limited in their ability to interact with others, those people will continue to have a hard time on this board, and will likely end up getting banned. QCDN isn't an asylum for those of limited mental capacity, it's beyond the level of assistance QCDN members are able to provide.

However, those who are willing and able to learn should not have to fear making an uneducated statement and being condemned for the rest of their FFXI life for it.

Make honesty safe!
No one should be afraid to ask a stupid question, for there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers. No one should be afraid to admit that he or she doesn't know how something works. No one should have to coat an event or a pending decision in some elaborate story just to gauge the opinion of others.

In the same time it takes one to tell someone else how stupid they are, the poster could have written a small blurb on how that someone else could improve, where to find resources, and how to go about it.
The difference? Attitude.

Why should you?
I don't know why you should, you tell me. I am doing it because I believe that it is the right thing to do.

 

[Dejavu]

I go to WH for the omelettes and you can smoke inside^^

heh the dennys i frequent when drunk has a smoking section. On a friday or saturday night around 2 or 3 am the glass room that is the smoking area has a waiting list and the rest of the resturant is pretty much empty. Nothing like being drunk, stoned or sleepy and eating a moons over my hammy.

Sorry for the derail

 

[Nicolette]

This isn't about cash or pleasing one group over another, or listening to someone's advice, or going nazi admin or any of those things. There comes a time for everyone, or at least I hope this to be true, where one asks oneself: What am I doing? How does what I am doing affect others? Am I doing the right thing?

Censorship always seems like a good idea to the censors, and and as we've seen already the only people who disagree with censorship are the ones who stand to be affected by it. The outspoken majority as you call it, or the people with opinions and the wit and courage to express them. The problem is in where you draw the line. I've seen it happen on other boards, where the admin decides to take the board in a new direction and i'll give you an example.

diaboloworld.com used to be like qcdn is now. it had a loosely moderated general discussion forum called.. ehh.. something clever.. (had to go look it up) the Steam Room. It was the FB equivalent, and there were plenty of debates and such. Now everytime something political or taboo or contraversial came up, the admin would get barraged with PMs from the "silent majority" about why the whole thread should be censored or stopped or better moderated or w/e, and eventually she caved in. Mods who didnt enforce strictly conservative viewpoints left or were replaced and the board steadily dropped in activity and usage. Diabloworld was then sold (citing out of date statistics) and approved users were invited to the admin's new site karmicpower.com where you think alike and behave or are not welcome.
Their highest user activity was more than 2 years ago, and they have dropped from several thousand users to currently 244, probably 1% being active, posting membership.

But at least its orderly.

 

[CubsWoo]

The problem, Sculli, is the 'community standards' make it an unfit place to have any form of negative feelings or thoughts. There was a lot of fear in my original post - criticism is, after all, a bannable offense.

It's foolish to think that people will join hands and share this utopian vision you've suddenly decided this board should be. In fact, muliple people in this very thread should be banned/made examples of for violations of your new guidelines (perhaps myself as well.) As has been said many, many times both on the old Flameboard and in other forums:

FFXI is not real life. Real-life situations do not apply here. Well, before today, they didn't.

The board, as a whole, now lacks content. As I said earlier, aside from 2, perhaps 3 boards where zero-content posts are all but encouraged, this forum does nothing that multiple other forums don't do better. Why would a potential member come here asking a question that Alla, KI, BG Forums, etc has already answered?

Like it or not, Sculli, this forum was known for the Flameboard. Now that's gone, and the forum is quickly losing an identity. What are your plans to reinvent the forum?

 

[Sculli]

approved users were invited to the admin's new site karmicpower.com where you think alike and behave or are not welcome

No one is asking QCDNers to think alike in any other aspect than how to treat each other on the forum. Treating each other with respect doesn't seem such an outlandish or unreasonable request. Controvery is still welcome, insults are not.

I thought about this after reading some of the replies, and I don't fully understand what the complaint of those who didn't want the FB gone is. Is the inability to insult each other the main point of contention?

I understand that the FB was entertaining to some. Can the same level of entertainment not be achieved in other areas of QCDN, without the gladiator arena in which the beast always dies?

Here's a question for you; How come those pay sites (MPS, whatever else there is), do not tolerate disrespect among the user base? Is it really just that members fear they will get banned after forking out the cash to join? Could it be that one of the reasons that pay sites tend to produce content worth paying for through mutual respect, collaboration, and interest to succeed as a group regardless of which server one is on?

Pay sites live off of regular users providing quality content. Very rarely do they employ full time staff that researches and writes exclusive content.

The notion of mutual respect will never be the downfall of an online community.

The problem, Sculli, is the 'community standards' make it an unfit place to have any form of negative feelings or thoughts. There was a lot of fear in my original post - criticism is, after all, a bannable offense.

I admit, I borrowed the TOS from elsewhere, and while I did my best to adjust them to QCDN, the criticism thing slipped by when I posted it.

Not being able to criticise is not a reasonable TOS. That phrase was since removed in one of the dozen or so revisions the standards have gone through since I posted them. Constructive criticism will always be welcome here. What makes it constructive? Factual arguments, an acceptable resolution, and a clearly defined way on how to get there.

FFXI is not real life, but people are still people, and ought to be treated as such. That's the bottom line that I have on endless replay.

You may say I am a dreamer, but I am not the only one. It may seem foolish to you to think that people will join forces, but in the end people help those who help them. There is no logical reason why they wouldn't, as it would make for a better forum and a better game experience. Would you rather have 50 people pissed off at you, or 50 people like you? Would you rather hear 'go screw yourself' when you are asking someone for a port, or would you rather hear a "sure, hang on a sec, be right there"?

re: lacking content
Others have said in this thread that they find content in the current areas of QCDN. I am sorry to hear that you do not share their sentiment. You have the option to create content for others, and maybe learn something yourself along the way. If you are unable or unwilling to do that, then you will just have to sit back and wait for someone else to do it for you. If that never happens, then QCDN is doomed!

If the FB is the only thing that sustained QCDN, then I would rather see the board die than continue on with people treating each other in the way they did.

 

[kaikyaku]

FFXI is not real life. Real-life situations do not apply here. Well, before today, they didn't.

I dunno… I highly disagree with your statement. Any offline game and this rule applies. In an online game you’re dealing with real people with real feelings. It’s ignorant to think you can say what you want at will and not have it affect anyone.

The overall “feeling” of this messageboard was not comradery or friendship. I think Mokk said something that stuck in my head

“You’re on the Flameboard. If you want a nice happy response go to the F*cking Goodtime’s board”

… he also mentioned something along the lines of, if you don’t have the thick skin and balls to reply here your better off going some place else.

That pretty much summed up the way I felt about this whole place. I agree that the flameboard mentality seeped over into all the other boards.

Welcome to post here and ask questions? Not really.

I pm’d Sculli when the question on changing first came up. He was adamant that when he created this board it was not to have his work be known for players trying to destroy players. I don’t think it has jack to do with money, I think it has to do with what little of a legacy he can leave behind… internet wise.

 

[decidence]

If the FB is the only thing that sustained QCDN, then I would rather see the board die than continue on with people treating each other in the way they did.

Thank you, oh wait theirs a button for that now.

 

[CubsWoo]

I understand that the FB was entertaining to some. Can the same level of entertainment not be achieved in other areas of QCDN, without the gladiator arena in which the beast always dies?

There's a very specific reason the reality show "8 guys live together in harmony" isn't a blockbuster hit.

Here's a question for you; How come those pay sites (MPS, whatever else there is), do not tolerate disrespect among the user base? Is it really just that members fear they will get banned after forking out the cash to join? Could it be that one of the reasons that pay sites tend to produce content worth paying for through mutual respect, collaboration, and interest to succeed as a group regardless of which server one is on?

Pay sites live off of regular users providing quality content. Very rarely do they employ full time staff that researches and writes exclusive content.

Go look at SA's GBS forum - half of the most viewed threads are either e/n or rantings. The only difference is that those rantings are based on people not privy to the board. Does knowing the person you're flaming may never read what you're writing make it any better?

The notion of mutual respect will never be the downfall of an online community.

Respect is earned, not granted.

You may say I am a dreamer, but I am not the only one. It may seem foolish to you to think that people will join forces, but in the end people help those who help them. There is no logical reason why they wouldn't, as it would make for a better forum and a better game experience. Would you rather have 50 people pissed off at you, or 50 people like you? Would you rather hear 'go screw yourself' when you are asking someone for a port, or would you rather hear a "sure, hang on a sec, be right there"?

I've played a heel for most of my life. Both through acting/theater work and because I was something of a black sheep in my formative years for the crime of being smart enough to skip a few grades. Truly, I understand that people, for the most part, inherently want to be liked. They want the admiration and love of everyone around them, because we are by nature narcissistic.

I don't want people to like/respect/admire me because that's what someone says they should do. You can tell an Israeli and a Palestinian that they should join hands and sing in harmony, but history has shown that's not always possible. I want them to respect me for my accomplishments instead out of some sense of entitlement.

re: lacking content
Others have said in this thread that they find content in the current areas of QCDN. I am sorry to hear that you do not share their sentiment. You have the option to create content for others, and maybe learn something yourself along the way. If you are unable or unwilling to do that, then you will just have to sit back and wait for someone else to do it for you. If that never happens, then QCDN is doomed!

If the FB is the only thing that sustained QCDN, then I would rather see the board die than continue on with people treating each other in the way they did.

You misunderstand. If I want information on, say... Blue Mage. I can go to:

Alla, where I will find people from 32 servers.
KI, where I will find people from 32 servers.
QCDN, where I will find people from 1 server.

Most of the 'content' in those threads are links to other forums anyway.

Re: Creating content. Again, should I have that content where one server's population can view it, or where 32 can? Content on this board is best suited to server-specific content, because that's who views the site. The brunt of server-specific content came from the Flameboard (in fact, the number of posts in Event Sched/AH/CC/GoodTimes/TT/FanWorks combined don't come close to matching the posts in the Flameboard.)

What do you suggest fills that void? What can QCDN now offer the userbase to keep users coming here instead of other sources?

 

[Zodiaque]

The flameboard was great because it was about FREEDOM to express yourself. I think it is disappointing and sad that this is yet another example of how freedom is no longer respected anymore and was completely abolished.

I'm honestly disgusted that there are not more people concerned with the fact that the freedom to speak your mind whether you agree or disagree is not here anymore, not completely.

I feel betrayed, and cheated.

When are we going to stop catering to people and where is Carlos Mencia when we need him??!!

 

[Excalibur]

I'm not reading all the pages in this thread, mainly because I just don't want to. All I'm going to say is I probably wont visit this site save once a month now - if that. I respect Sculli and think he's an awesome guy, but this, in my opinion, was a big mistake. What I would have done, instead of replacing the FB, is just add the NW as a new forum. One where all the PC and PG people can go, and leave us FB trollers to ourselves.

 

[Nicolette]

No one is asking QCDNers to think alike in any other aspect than how to treat each other on the forum. Treating each other with respect doesn't seem such an outlandish or unreasonable request. Controvery is still welcome, insults are not.

I thought about this after reading some of the replies, and I don't fully understand what the complaint of those who didn't want the FB gone is. Is the inability to insult each other the main point of contention?

Theres a difference between stopping people who habitually insult each other, and the requirements you have put up for your new vision. Ive seen in the past how you personally have taken a hand into censoring things you disagreed with but are not insults (and refused to donate to the site accordingly), and fear that this is the same on a larger scale... and I dont think i'm alone. You can point at flaming, and insults and such all you like, you dont kill the patient to cure a rash.

 

[asiamise]

A Eulogy to one of the weirdest responsibilities I ever had:

Over a year ago, our then Admin Pupusa had left this forum to go the way of The Lord of the Flies.
Lines were drawn, sides were taken, and people like Seppeku were trolling away uninhibited in the FB, which then was modless.
The arguement was brought to light that the FB should be modded due to our lack of an active Admin. I personally lobbied for it to take care of trolls like Seppeku and his like which were turning the art of the flame into utter dribble before our eyes and allowed to do so for many weeks.

Then Pup finally showed up, and decided it was in the boards best interest to make Cubs and I mods to look after the board in his absence. He then magically faded away (*poof*) and left us both to our very opposing ideas on moderation and to jointly take a load of flack from the community for watching over the land of where "anarchy rules supreme" Our combination of different ideals worked well together, almost like the old" You got Chocolate in my Peanut Butter" commercials from the 70's ^.~

Many thought that we were'nt needed, others did. Eventually though, the FB did benefit from our presence. While Pupusa was gone Cubs and I managed to basically maintain what we set out to do. To keep the trolls at bay and control topics gone out of control.

*(While it has been argued that this did'nt really happen, keep in mind that Cubs and I had no ability to ban/remove people from the board, and until Sculli's return, our PM's to Pup regarding trolls that needed banning often went unread, hence the appearance of "nothing done" on our parts).*

All the while anger and unrest bubbled due to our lack of an Admin. We were a board full of mods and users raising our fists and pitchforks, torches ablaze, demanding that we have order.

Then Sculli came back. His return was welcome. This board had an active admin that would actually check it everday, answer PM's, and ban trolls.
Over this time FB evolved into a new breed of monster. It had evolved into something else that no longer resembled itself. A time for change was at hand, and that change involved putting this monster out of its misery for good. End the beast's suffering. End the monster's pain.

Goodbye old friend, while I enjoyed and will miss your forum for clever debate and rapier wit / top drawer humor, I will rejoice in the fact that I will no longer watch the clever art of flaming be destroyed in the hands of immature poo-flinging miscreants pointing fingers and casting stones at each other, usually over nothing at all.

All in attendance are invited to a lovely brunch of champaigne, cantaloupe and conversation at the lovely "Chateau De Snooty JP" in RuLude Gardens immediately following todays service.

I'm going to hold off on prophesizing the boards future till the changes have time to take full effect. I look at it this way, IMHO, I'd rather have an Admin willing to shake things up and apply changes than an Admin who pops in once every 3 months and makes no changes at all. I may or not agree with his decisions, but those decisions are ultimately his to make. Maybe these changes will incite others to start their own endeavors?

In closing, its been a pleasure and an honor to do what I could in the FB during my term of mod.

/sniff XD

 

[Bangalor]

I, myself, have read over many of the posts in this forum and what I have gotten out of it is it's a fight about expressing, and the extent of the expression. The only plausable way to solve the want of the flameboard is to add a allakhazam rating system, so people will not post useless bullshit about he said she said..but i know many people do not want to do this...

From how I see it, there is no way for everyone to be happy..so Sculli has the main decision, and thats how it should be. Leaders do stuff like this. Just like Bush invading Iraq..bad example, but you get the idea.

 

[Sculli]

Respect is earned, not granted.

I disagree. Respect is granted based on the fact that we all share the same passion for the game, based on that we are humans, basic human decency doesn't need to be earned. Respect then can be lost by certain actions, and then, and only then, people will have to earn it again.

The notion that one will not respect another until the other has done something to impress one is flawed. Based on that you would live your life disrespecting 99.99999999999% of all people you ever meet.

If two people can find 1% of things they have in common, then it is worth to put in 100% effort to make that relationship work. We already have lots of common ground, we are for the most part MMO players, FFXI players, QCDN users, that's way more common ground than one would have with just some random dude on the street. Yet some find it acceptable to treat others on here disrespectfully, while the random dude on the street doesn't have to endure insults just because there is a small detail about him that doesn't look right.

I don't want people to like/respect/admire me because that's what someone says they should do. [...] I want them to respect me for my accomplishments instead out of some sense of entitlement.

The respect that the Community Standards speak of is a basic level that dictates that people can't be pricks to each other on here. It doesn't mean people must get together for a group hug, or build altars for each other. There is still plenty of room to grow.

I am no expert, but I am not sure whether you will be able to receive the kind of respect you are looking for, anywhere. End-game accomplishments are generally only seen as such by other end-game enabled players. Very few other players have a clear picture of what it takes to succeed in the end-game. That's not good or bad, it just is, only those who have been there for real know what it is like and can possibly appreciate the effort that goes into it.

Be that as it may, I would like for people to respect me for who I am, how I deal with others, and based on my character. Different people have different needs, who's to say which is better.

re: content
Yes, QCDN was never meant to be a content site, I had no illusio ns of grandeur that a site with a very limited number of users can possibly compete with well established content providing sites out there that draw from thousands and ten thousands of users. As screwed up as the Alla boards may be, Alla quest info and such is good, no doubt.

I sincerely hope that a revamp of the AH, an expansion of Event Scheduling to make it easier to schedule and find events that are specific to an area or expansion, as well as an effort to bring end-game shells together and have them work out scheduling issues will become the new mainstay of the board.

The AH needs some serious work, and it won't happen till the end of the month, but I do have some ideas on how to make it more useful and I do welcome everyone's input.

I would like to bring back board-wide events such as the lottery, I would like to either pick up Kolid's idea of the ballista league, or have him do it.

Look at it this way, yesterday I set out some 3,200 newsletter emails, about 70 or so bounced, the rest has a potential of being read. All that is needed now is creativity and a climate that fosters it, there is no limit as to what this group of QCDN users could do. It takes leaders, visionaries, to look beyond XP/hour and do something that is truly extraordinary, something that will put Quetzalcoatl on the FFXI server map. Not a kill of some mob, anyone with the right gear and a small group of people could do that.

What about an event where 200 players show up, what about 500 players? Think BIG. Write IGE SUCKS in the sand, recreate the battle of gettysburg, whatever, you have theater background, there must be grand things that can be done in FFXI with a large number of people.

Yes, the individual will just be a small dot in that screenshot, but will it not be an accomplishment not paralleled by any other server nonetheless?

I'm honestly disgusted that there are not more people concerned with the fact that the freedom to speak your mind whether you agree or disagree is not here anymore, not completely.

Freedom is an illusion. There is no place where you are free to do as you please. Anywhere you go you are limited by laws, laws created by men, or laws created by nature. Freedom of Speech never applied to QCDN in the first place, as this is a privately owned site and constitutional rights do not apply here.

Maybe it's just me, but the more I think about it, the less of an issue removing the FB is becoming. And I can't help but ask, what's the real trouble, removing the FB, or requiering people to treat each other decently? Because those two are really totally different issues.

 

[CubsWoo]

I think we're confusing respect with courtesy. I don't have to think what you're doing is admirable to not treat you like a jerk. Courtesy can be expected and implied, but respect is another thing entirely.

 

[Sculli]

I think we're confusing respect with courtesy. I don't have to think what you're doing is admirable to not treat you like a jerk.

I can agree to that. No one is required to admire someone else on here, but everyone is required to not treat another as a jerk.

I am heading out of the office now, if someone would take the time to reword the current community standards to reflect the above, that would be great, PM to me or post here, either way. Thanks.

 

[Prothall]

I understand why sculli wanted to get rid of the FB, and do not fault him for deleting it. I do however miss it sorely, as it amused me so much. I am especially upset that I wasn't able to post more about a certain member who i have unsaid flames for.