Phraust said:
Well..... Everybody gotta learn the hard way right? I"m sure before even this people where telling you THII was the way to go yet you still camped jaggy 95 times.
Give some of us a break.
Well..... Everybody gotta learn the hard way right? I"m sure before even this people where telling you THII was the way to go yet you still camped jaggy 95 times.
Give some of us a break.
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Please do not hyjack the thread... It was funny the first 30 times, but after that it gets kinda old. If you don't have anything to add, then please refrain from posting.
I mean shit... Even WSM had someting on topic to add...
WSM the only reason you generally hear this arguement from thieves is because they are the ones that have seen both sides of the coin. They have seen the drop rates with and without TH II, so they know the difference. For somone wo has never level thief to 45 or further, it seems like a moot point. But trust me, and all the other level 45+ thieves that have posted here... It does indeed make a difference.
In fact... Now that I think of it, I was leveling the Megamule's monk the other day in West Saratabaruta the other day and told my friend how nice it was to NOT have my inventory get all 'Junked up' with crap...
And I never said Not to hunt it. I said to quit bitching, and to accept the responsibility and repercussions of your actions.
If Valkrum emperor pops about every 3 hours, that is 8 pops a day or nearly 3,000 pops a year. If TH II adds even a 25% drop increase, and one in three kills result in a drop, that's 250 more pins/year. and we know how panicy undercutters can be... that kind of increse would definately drop the price a little. I mean look at the price of Water IV.... 3 on the AH consistant sales for 500k, one guy puts one up for 350k and everyone panics and slashes thiers down to 200k in the period of a week.. and there weren't many being sold.
I mean shit... Even WSM had someting on topic to add...
WSM the only reason you generally hear this arguement from thieves is because they are the ones that have seen both sides of the coin. They have seen the drop rates with and without TH II, so they know the difference. For somone wo has never level thief to 45 or further, it seems like a moot point. But trust me, and all the other level 45+ thieves that have posted here... It does indeed make a difference.
In fact... Now that I think of it, I was leveling the Megamule's monk the other day in West Saratabaruta the other day and told my friend how nice it was to NOT have my inventory get all 'Junked up' with crap...
And I never said Not to hunt it. I said to quit bitching, and to accept the responsibility and repercussions of your actions.
If Valkrum emperor pops about every 3 hours, that is 8 pops a day or nearly 3,000 pops a year. If TH II adds even a 25% drop increase, and one in three kills result in a drop, that's 250 more pins/year. and we know how panicy undercutters can be... that kind of increse would definately drop the price a little. I mean look at the price of Water IV.... 3 on the AH consistant sales for 500k, one guy puts one up for 350k and everyone panics and slashes thiers down to 200k in the period of a week.. and there weren't many being sold.
Actually you are right. But for some reason I don't believe it would increase the amount of treasure at the AH. I would think SE would even go far as to limit how many times it would drop per day also. But then I have no clue about that either.
Lavi has killed Argus before, I had it in my chat log one day. 8)
and yes, if you don't have TH2 ALL of you are pretty much wasting my time (the people who are prepared to actually get the drop) which I doubt you care about but most importantly,
YOUR time.
My THF is level 49, I might be able to solo Argus but I would rather take my chances with one, if not the best now, Argus camper on the server. In the last 2 weeks we have seen plenty and I do mean plenty of claims and charms drop in our hands. More than what I have reported on here that's for sure. Hell I don't even say shit anymore about our drops because I have seen so many people try to jump on the bandwagon who never camped Argus a day in their lives and now they are all doing it and doing it all wrong with no TH2 or THF buddy.
Better known as /sea all countercampers. They exist, it's annoying, I see now for myself what P had to go through in his glory days. But now I see fucking campers down at a 24-72 HOUR CAMP NM WHO DON'T EVEN HAVE TREASURE HUNTER 1!!!
People are idiots, that's all.
I brought it on myself for making a thread about my drop, now i realize why my partner tells me to keep my big yapper shut lol.
and yes, if you don't have TH2 ALL of you are pretty much wasting my time (the people who are prepared to actually get the drop) which I doubt you care about but most importantly,
YOUR time.
My THF is level 49, I might be able to solo Argus but I would rather take my chances with one, if not the best now, Argus camper on the server. In the last 2 weeks we have seen plenty and I do mean plenty of claims and charms drop in our hands. More than what I have reported on here that's for sure. Hell I don't even say shit anymore about our drops because I have seen so many people try to jump on the bandwagon who never camped Argus a day in their lives and now they are all doing it and doing it all wrong with no TH2 or THF buddy.
Better known as /sea all countercampers. They exist, it's annoying, I see now for myself what P had to go through in his glory days. But now I see fucking campers down at a 24-72 HOUR CAMP NM WHO DON'T EVEN HAVE TREASURE HUNTER 1!!!
People are idiots, that's all.
I brought it on myself for making a thread about my drop, now i realize why my partner tells me to keep my big yapper shut lol.
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Darkdante said:
Exactly... And I will say this, just to add some frosting to that very incident...
The very day I got my Rabbit Charm, was the day I hit 45. I hit 45, Died, Duoed a couple crawlers with the WHM to get my 45 back, walked to pashow, killed a couple goobbues, didn't notice any difference, walked all the way to West Ron because I was going to camp for a bit and go to sleep. Waited for an hour, said to myself "One last widescan and I go to bed." Open the map, no Jaggedy. Close the Map, and he's right in front of me... Throw my boomerang.... sit there a sec... throw another boomerang and get the drop. then proceed to shit my pants and go absolutely apeshit in my LS.
However... I am on #108 now and have not seen another dropp off the fucker.
Just speaking in terms of a reality check here, everyon'e can't have a level 45+ THF until everyone else levels many different jobs to 45.
We all know you're willing to be the THF slot in a party, leveling a job that's beneficial to making gil, but how many tank, main healing black mage, and MP healing jobs have you leveled Phraust? It's just a question of mathematics. That's why so many hate leveling up thief, because there's so many damn people who want to level their thief. Maybe of some people who play DD jobs only filled some other slots then after playing mage and tank jobs nonstop I wouldn't have to seek for hours as a thief cause so few others are willing to.
And before you say it's off topic, it's a root cause point.
We all know you're willing to be the THF slot in a party, leveling a job that's beneficial to making gil, but how many tank, main healing black mage, and MP healing jobs have you leveled Phraust? It's just a question of mathematics. That's why so many hate leveling up thief, because there's so many damn people who want to level their thief. Maybe of some people who play DD jobs only filled some other slots then after playing mage and tank jobs nonstop I wouldn't have to seek for hours as a thief cause so few others are willing to.
And before you say it's off topic, it's a root cause point.
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Firestreak said:
/search all thf 37-75
/search all mage 37-75
and while you're at it... I like that you have 4 level 65+ jobs... the 4/5 top invite jobs in the game... the 4 jobs.. that if you went out naked wielding nothing but a toothpick, would still get overwhelmed with invites... What's next? Bard?
There's always a trade off...
What does my having no experience in leveling other jobs have to do with anything? What relevance does that even have? That I don't understand what other jobs have to go through? Well.. I know how much easier other jobs are... Playing Summon, i was soloing T, and VT mobs for ~150 exp a pop. As a Whm i was getting invites at level 10 while i was in a party... Went form level 28 to level 38 in about 2 days with Ninja, and had to stop because I wanted to finish leveling thief.
And yes it was totally off topic.
Take notes here Phraust:
These jobs are high demand because NO ONE PLAYS THEM. I get invites while I'm not seeking in West Saru with level 1 MNK sub because PEOPLE NEED TANKS. This is just reality. More people are playing DDs than tanks, do you think tanks are high demand because of all those parties with 3 paladins in them? It's cause there's always an abundance of melees. What you are trying to say is that the standard of NM campers should be high level THF only, and if you're not a THF, you shouldn't complain about the drop rate. I'm trying to say is that standard is impossible until we can all solo our thieves to 45 or until everyone who levels THF to 45 then levels 5 other jobs to 45 partying with a thief all along the way. Until then, accept the fact that by playing thief, 5 other people are not leveling their thief today. And until you want to buy those 5 people all their gear, they're going to camp NMs with Treasure Hunter 1 or even 0.
These jobs are high demand because NO ONE PLAYS THEM. I get invites while I'm not seeking in West Saru with level 1 MNK sub because PEOPLE NEED TANKS. This is just reality. More people are playing DDs than tanks, do you think tanks are high demand because of all those parties with 3 paladins in them? It's cause there's always an abundance of melees. What you are trying to say is that the standard of NM campers should be high level THF only, and if you're not a THF, you shouldn't complain about the drop rate. I'm trying to say is that standard is impossible until we can all solo our thieves to 45 or until everyone who levels THF to 45 then levels 5 other jobs to 45 partying with a thief all along the way. Until then, accept the fact that by playing thief, 5 other people are not leveling their thief today. And until you want to buy those 5 people all their gear, they're going to camp NMs with Treasure Hunter 1 or even 0.
In addition: It has nothing to do with gear or player skill. I know there's lots of shitty Nin and Pld and Blm and Whm, afterall I don't play all 4 jobs simultaneously and party with myself you know? But the fact remains. I don't think I have EVER heard a party leader say "well we can't find a thief, time to disband." You can ALWAYS find a THF to party. And just because you're good at the job, and justify your slot, and have great gear, doesn't mean the others all are.
Firestreak said:
Hey, it's their right if they want to, I'm just trying to point something out here.
Is it possible for every person in the game to level thief to 45 without everyone also leveling whitemage, ninja, paladin, blackmage, bard, redmage, ext, ext, ext, all the other needed jobs for a party function... forgetting Treasure Hunter, are these parties going to yield any exp?
it's a mathematical impossibility for everyone to level up to treasure hunter 2. Bitch all you want about high demand jobs getting parties fast, but by playing these high demand jobs, more low demand jobs get parties. Think about it for a second.
Therefore, until every thief levels all the other jobs to 45 as well, you can't claim your drop rate should be the standard. If you think more people should have 45+ thfs, stop playing your THF and level more jobs up.
It's not off topic, it's just common sense.
Is it possible for every person in the game to level thief to 45 without everyone also leveling whitemage, ninja, paladin, blackmage, bard, redmage, ext, ext, ext, all the other needed jobs for a party function... forgetting Treasure Hunter, are these parties going to yield any exp?
it's a mathematical impossibility for everyone to level up to treasure hunter 2. Bitch all you want about high demand jobs getting parties fast, but by playing these high demand jobs, more low demand jobs get parties. Think about it for a second.
Therefore, until every thief levels all the other jobs to 45 as well, you can't claim your drop rate should be the standard. If you think more people should have 45+ thfs, stop playing your THF and level more jobs up.
It's not off topic, it's just common sense.
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Firestreak said:
No, really, your rant is in fact off topic.
I was simply asking people to not bitch, when they waste a kill that could have had a better chance at actually producing an item, or leaving it for somone that has the ability to enhance the drop rate.
I never said you needed to level thief. Sit.
Firestreak said:
1) Everyone that wants to, yes...
2) No one's bitching about 'high demand jobs' but you kid. Chill. This is why I say you are way off topic.
Listen I didn't say not to hunt the Monsters. I said quit bitching when you are directly adding to thier level of rarity...
Nope, son, you're the one who brought it up.
The reason it's on topic is that I am proposing their level of rarity is that of the drop rate to ANYONE who wants to hunt it. You can't claim that the THF drop rate should be the standard until it's possible for everyone in the game to level their thief up. No one is arguing that TH increases the drop rate, and personally that's why you never see me running around trying to claim NMs with Stun or Flash.
I'm trying to say, you're looking at it from the perspective of a thief. I'm trying to say, look at the perspective of the rest of the population. that's their drop rate. Has nothing to do with your drop rate unless you want to join part with em and camp together.
This whole post of course would be on the idea that "those that farmed was the ones bitching". Which might not always be the case. If your farming you prob don't want to pay for it and are not bitching anyway.
These guys are prob bitching about the drop rate and didn't learn the value of THII yet.
Thus they have yet to reach there number "95".
These guys are prob bitching about the drop rate and didn't learn the value of THII yet.
Thus they have yet to reach there number "95".
I guess what I'm trying to say is that "They are the same as you guys".
Its just they a little lvls lower.
Its just they a little lvls lower.
Firestreak said:
Hi Phraust Sr., I just wanted to point out that your son never said a thing about leveling THF. The whole point of Phraust's post was to tell people to STFU with their hypocritical bitching about inflation and then going out to camp an NM and wasting kills.
Then again I went off topic with my previous posts in the thread aswell, but I'll admit to it.
Well Tiya what I'm thinking right now is more universal than just the Argus camp. Like look at Proflix fora sec and the Moldevite Earring.
Now I camped it as a BLM, and I had no treasure hunter. Then one day I came back helping a friend and we had a thief. Now I looked at all those people camping with no treasure hunter at all, and knew, they'd claim it, not get the earring, log off, come back in an hour and change, and repeat the process. I thought at first they were wasting my time by not getting the damn earring and leaving, but instead sucking up endless Profblixes. But that's from MY perspective only. From their perspective... I've got a higher drop rate, so what? Does it matter if I get the earring and leave or they just get the claim now and make me wait? Not a damn bit. They need the earring too.
Now you're thinking of Argus I'm assuming here, and there your drop rate has even LESS affect on the other campers. You've all gotten the peacock charm and you keep coming back for more.
Here's where I'm not off topic in the slighest bit. Pay close attention...
You say: You guys lower the drop rate by camping with TH1 and wasting NMs.
I say: You raise the drop rate by camping NMs, but you raise it from MY standard of TH1.
By saying Th2 is the standard, all you're really saying is, level up thief or don't camp NMs. I don't know any other way to interprete this rant. My drop rate is my drop rate, regardless of your drop rate. If I didn't have better way to make moeny than camping NM with my drop rate, that's what I'd be doing.A long while back, I camped NMs with TH0, and then with TH1, and eventualyl I found better ways to make money. But when I was back in the day with my TH1, and I got a claim, I wasn't taking anything from the other campers. Merely you added something by getting the claim yourself.
Now I camped it as a BLM, and I had no treasure hunter. Then one day I came back helping a friend and we had a thief. Now I looked at all those people camping with no treasure hunter at all, and knew, they'd claim it, not get the earring, log off, come back in an hour and change, and repeat the process. I thought at first they were wasting my time by not getting the damn earring and leaving, but instead sucking up endless Profblixes. But that's from MY perspective only. From their perspective... I've got a higher drop rate, so what? Does it matter if I get the earring and leave or they just get the claim now and make me wait? Not a damn bit. They need the earring too.
Now you're thinking of Argus I'm assuming here, and there your drop rate has even LESS affect on the other campers. You've all gotten the peacock charm and you keep coming back for more.
Here's where I'm not off topic in the slighest bit. Pay close attention...
You say: You guys lower the drop rate by camping with TH1 and wasting NMs.
I say: You raise the drop rate by camping NMs, but you raise it from MY standard of TH1.
By saying Th2 is the standard, all you're really saying is, level up thief or don't camp NMs. I don't know any other way to interprete this rant. My drop rate is my drop rate, regardless of your drop rate. If I didn't have better way to make moeny than camping NM with my drop rate, that's what I'd be doing.A long while back, I camped NMs with TH0, and then with TH1, and eventualyl I found better ways to make money. But when I was back in the day with my TH1, and I got a claim, I wasn't taking anything from the other campers. Merely you added something by getting the claim yourself.
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OK Chief... Listen up..
Said Quote was in your lashing out at me:
When you started off saying that No one could have a level 45+ thief until every one levels the main needed jobs. WHich had no relevance because it was never stated that it was a requirement. Yes it was suggested as a possible way to increase your chances.. But this post was more about the dipshit fools that go out and camp something and don't come prepared. Then bitch when they fail. It's like a WHM going out as a tank and getting mad when they die. This irritation is only furthered when it;s somone camping something thier job doesn't need. Like a WHM camping Peacock Charm, or a MNK Camping Emperor's Hairpin. It's jsut an irritation to see: "Damn VE didn't drop again. that's # 10 for me with no drop.. I'm never going to get this thing blah, blah, blah.." And I think to myself well... in that time I could have gotten 8, refering back to my history...
Lemme see.... You're a WHm camping VE.... You could run off and do like 5 BCNMs in the time it takes VE to spawn and not even have to use any seals. And get garunteed Money, or something you can use, while in the meantime letting the thief do thier job, Get the mob, kill it, increase the chance of a drop, so you can buy the drop with the money you got from BCNM'ing. Or... You can camp it, claim it, reduces the chances of gettign the drop, meanwhile there's no more BCNM items going up. SO in the end, you are out a Hairpin, and 5 BCNM runs worth of Items..... See the ripple effect? Everyone has a role.
But yeah. By all means. Camp it. But again. Don't whine when you don't get the drop when you knew there was a better way. Don't complain that the Peacock Charm is 20,000,000 G because there are five RDM/WAR's Camping it getting 5-10% drop rates at best... And killing something that already only pops about 150 times a year.
I don't care what Job you go as. Just stop bitching.
Firestreak said:and while you're at it... I like that you have 4 level 65+ jobs... the 4/5 top invite jobs in the game... the 4 jobs.. that if you went out naked wielding nothing but a toothpick, would still get overwhelmed with invites... What's next? Bard?
Nope, son, you're the one who brought it up.
The reason it's on topic is that I am proposing their level of rarity is that of the drop rate to ANYONE who wants to hunt it. You can't claim that the THF drop rate should be the standard until it's possible for everyone in the game to level their thief up. No one is arguing that TH increases the drop rate, and personally that's why you never see me running around trying to claim NMs with Stun or Flash.
I'm trying to say, you're looking at it from the perspective of a thief. I'm trying to say, look at the perspective of the rest of the population. that's their drop rate. Has nothing to do with your drop rate unless you want to join part with em and camp together.
Said Quote was in your lashing out at me:
Firestreak said:
When you started off saying that No one could have a level 45+ thief until every one levels the main needed jobs. WHich had no relevance because it was never stated that it was a requirement. Yes it was suggested as a possible way to increase your chances.. But this post was more about the dipshit fools that go out and camp something and don't come prepared. Then bitch when they fail. It's like a WHM going out as a tank and getting mad when they die. This irritation is only furthered when it;s somone camping something thier job doesn't need. Like a WHM camping Peacock Charm, or a MNK Camping Emperor's Hairpin. It's jsut an irritation to see: "Damn VE didn't drop again. that's # 10 for me with no drop.. I'm never going to get this thing blah, blah, blah.." And I think to myself well... in that time I could have gotten 8, refering back to my history...
Lemme see.... You're a WHm camping VE.... You could run off and do like 5 BCNMs in the time it takes VE to spawn and not even have to use any seals. And get garunteed Money, or something you can use, while in the meantime letting the thief do thier job, Get the mob, kill it, increase the chance of a drop, so you can buy the drop with the money you got from BCNM'ing. Or... You can camp it, claim it, reduces the chances of gettign the drop, meanwhile there's no more BCNM items going up. SO in the end, you are out a Hairpin, and 5 BCNM runs worth of Items..... See the ripple effect? Everyone has a role.
But yeah. By all means. Camp it. But again. Don't whine when you don't get the drop when you knew there was a better way. Don't complain that the Peacock Charm is 20,000,000 G because there are five RDM/WAR's Camping it getting 5-10% drop rates at best... And killing something that already only pops about 150 times a year.
I don't care what Job you go as. Just stop bitching.
Faedryth said:
Someone may have already done this, but I haven't finished reading through the entire thread...but you're wrong on your probabilities...
This is what is known as a disjunction (an and/or statement). In this case it is a special disjunction which only refers to the "or" statement. What it means is this person A has a 1/100 probability OR person B has a 1/100 probability, ad nauseum. In the case of a disjunction, you add the probabilities of each individual disjunct. So it would be 1/100 + 1/100 + 1/100 ad nauseum for however many party members there are. If the rate of TH2 is, for example, 4/100 then you would add that in in place of a non-TH2 member.
Now I doubt that the game program code calculates drop rates with a simple disjunction probability calculation, if that were the case then you would not have people who are like 0/50 on some not-quite-uber-rare drops. More likely, the alogrithim used to calculate drop rates takes in a number of variables that we are not able to really factor in with TH2 and what not. For example, moon phase, day of the week, number of previous drops in a given time frame, etc. All we can say for certain is that TH, TH2, and TH3 INCREASE drop probabilities.