The worse RPGs?

[Lanien]

Oh and I don't hang off Sephiroth's balls, Cloud is much cooler.

Because Cloud is much better? His friend dies a few years earlier right infront of him to an entire army of Shinra troops, and Cloud just steals his sword and starts living his life. He really worked his way to the top. Then to top it off, he spends the better part of a disc sitting in a wheelchair with his head flopping. Great main character.

In the end, Cloud is such a dick for stealing the identity of Zack. If you play Crisis Core, you will know that Cloud didn't just think he was Zack. He knew full well what he was doing.

 

[Bajaratt]

I didnt try the Japanese version. I was like 30 hours into the English version and I just didnt feel like going back through it. Hindsight, wish I would've.

I don't think its bad you like it though. I mean, I did put 30 hours into it; that counts for something right? lol

You would have had to start all over? I thought you could just change between them like all of the other RPG's with multiple language tracks I've played.

I can understand not wanting to play with horrible voice acting, I wish I could just delete Marumaro's dialogue from the game entirely.

 

[Elemmire]

FF7 is not a horrible RPG, it's just popular to dump on it because so many people consider it the epitome of RPG's. At the time it was incredible, but now it's fairly average; it's just receiving extra hate because it helped spawn the emo trend and because of it's rabid fanbase, most of which never played the much more timeless SNES RPG's. It's basically the halo of it's time.

A whole horrible series is SE's Saga series. Saga Frontier 1 and 2, and unlimited saga all sucked.

hehe, Cloud wasn't emo though, he was just Apethetic. However they made him emo in FFVII: AC and Kingdom Hearts >.> and then after Aerith's death he was upset but who the hell wouldn't be after the death of someone close to them? I'm kinda getting sick of people throwing emo around when they don't seem to get what emo is Squall might be the closest to emo but I don't even think he really is "emo" either. He doesn't go around complaining about his problems or being alone. That's usually what the typical "emos" do XD complain about being alone, write poetry or whatever about it and ya.

Besides, it was only really Squall and Cloud that were really not so high spirited in the hero department. Apathetic or just ya.. but I wouldn't really classify them as emo exactly. Zidane was a happy funny dood (and it's why I like him ) that only got depressed when he found out he learned where he really come from and what he was supposed to do. Tidus was a bit more whiney/cry baby than other heroes but he was still mostly positive about things, even when he found out his father was Sin and such he was upset but he still tried to keep Yuna happy it was only when he found out he was a dream he got really upset I think and even then he kept a pretty positive attitude.

Now back to FFVII, is it still a good game? yes. Is it over hyped? perhaps. But ah well. I don't think any FF really deserves "worst RPG evar" except for Mystic Quest XD that was so bad... big mistake on Square's part for making it for the NA audience and assuming that it'd be best to dumb it down and make it as bad as it was lol.

 

[Makelith]

Normally i would fully agree with you Baj, but not with something like video games, and especially RPGs. All things held constant in RPG's (which is usually the case, save for battle system) the only thing that differs between RPGs are the aesthetics. On a 3 dics RPG if i can't stand the voice acting or the way the things look, and especially the boss battle music, what other reason is there to play it? There are bunches of other turn based RPG games that are leaps and bounds above blue dragon in that department.

Of course with your Windwaker argument you have to take what was intended in to mind. It was intended to look the way it did. I personally never played it because i wasn't interested in the retarded sailing aspect of the game (lol at all solid mechanics), but what was intended for Blue Dragon. I honestly can't say i even have a clue. I was under the impression they were trying to make a great turn based RPG game that would be ground breaking on the x360, and i don't think they could have missed the mark more.

Also, sorry to disappoint, but i don't believe most people "bandwagon dislike" FF7. It was a decent game where the only part i thought was really good was the whole tower falling down on sector 7. It shined because of its graphics at the time and the very well done materia system. It hardly had anything on FF8.

 

[Bajaratt]

Normally i would fully agree with you Baj, but not with something like video games, and especially RPGs. All things held constant in RPG's (which is usually the case, save for battle system) the only thing that differs between RPGs are the aesthetics. On a 3 dics RPG if i can't stand the voice acting or the way the things look, and especially the boss battle music, what other reason is there to play it? There are bunches of other turn based RPG games that are leaps and bounds above blue dragon in that department.

And that's fine, you didn't like the aesthetics of the game, but that doesn't mean that anyone who didn't mind them as much(or even liked them) is automatically wrong or that the game actually sucks. And that's where the whole "I'll respect your opinion as long as it's the same as mine" aspect comes in; because you're saying a game sucks solely because of the aesthetics, which are 100% subjective, and thinking that anyone with a different view is flat-out wrong. I personally like the boss music, it's a nice change of pace from most other RPG's which don't even have separate boss music unless the fight is a critical story element, and most of the time not even then.

Aesthetics are a valid reason to not like/play a game; but they're not a valid reason to think that no one else should ever enjoy the game.

Of course with your Windwaker argument you have to take what was intended in to mind. It was intended to look the way it did. I personally never played it because i wasn't interested in the retarded sailing aspect of the game (lol at all solid mechanics), but what was intended for Blue Dragon. I honestly can't say i even have a clue. I was under the impression they were trying to make a great turn based RPG game that would be ground breaking on the x360, and i don't think they could have missed the mark more.

The only place where it "missed the mark" was in the voice acting(which I don't think is all that bad, since the characters are kids and their voices/inflections/attitudes fit) and running animations(I'll grant you this, these suck); everything else has been pretty good. The class system is well developed, the enemies are pretty varied, the plot is fairly engaging. Yes, it's the standard "kids start out with a small goal and end up saving the world," but this is the only game in recent memory with a decent rival for the love interest; one who it looks like is actually going to get the girl instead of the main character.

You seem to be one of the ones who got the game thinking it'd be the next Chrono Trigger, which would explain why you're harping on the game so much. I didn't go in with that idea, mainly because I waited so long to play it so I heard more accurate accounts of what the game was really like; so my view of the game isn't tainted by the massive disappointment of what the game could have been.

It hardly had anything on FF8.

FF8 was a fucking horrible game, FF7 was better in every single way except for graphics. Stealing your magic was the dumbest idea in any RPG ever, period. Mobs leveling with you is another bad idea that discourages exploration and added artificial difficulty to the game. At the point where you can be max level, with the best gear in the game, and still have to fucking pray that when you fought a red dragon(a normal enemy on one island) you'd either get to go first or they wouldn't do one of their two moves that would instantly wipe your whole party; the enemy mechanics are seriously messed up.

Building your own weapons is a good idea, but they implemented it horribly, with only 4 weapons per person and the only differences between them were power. The story was convoluted and just painfully boring by the halfway point; the characters were so flat if they turned fast enough they'd be invisible. The sole saving grace for that game was that it was pretty, but that only means it was a well polished turd.

 

[Makelith]

I'm glad you made this post.

And that's fine, you didn't like the aesthetics of the game, but that doesn't mean that anyone who didn't mind them as much(or even liked them) is automatically wrong or that the game actually sucks.

Lets change something like aesthetics in this post and change it to something else. Like game mechanics.

And that's fine, you didn't like the mechanics of the game, but that doesn't mean that anyone who didn't mind them as much(or even liked them) is automatically wrong or that the game actually sucks.

And then apply it to your later paragraph.

FF8 was a fucking horrible game, FF7 was better in every single way except for graphics. Stealing your magic was the dumbest idea in any RPG ever, period. Mobs leveling with you is another bad idea that discourages exploration and added artificial difficulty to the game. At the point where you can be max level, with the best gear in the game, and still have to fucking pray that when you fought a red dragon(a normal enemy on one island) you'd either get to go first or they wouldn't do one of their two moves that would instantly wipe your whole party; the enemy mechanics are seriously messed up.

I think you'll see what i'm getting at here.

 

[Tyrath]

People who throw their opinions around as fact piss me off.

 

[Bajaratt]

I'm glad you made this post.

Lets change something like aesthetics in this post and change it to something else. Like game mechanics.

And then apply it to your later paragraph.

I think you'll see what i'm getting at here.

Yeah, that totally makes it the same thing, but only if you swap the words and ignore the basis and reasoning behind those statements. Plus, I'm not the one making it my mission to tell everyone how bad the game sucks and think that anyone who could have liked it was wrong. I'm doing that in this thread because it's relevant, but I still don't feel obligated like you do to "correct" people's views on the game. I'm also actually proving reasons why the game was bad, not just "I don't like the way it looks."

Looking to game mechanics is a much more objective rubric, since there are mechanics that work well and those that don't. Those that don't you never see again or see very, very rarely(always in other games that flop too). Enemies leveling with you and stealing your magic are two of those mechanics that bombed and haven't been brought back, for good reason.

There is some subjectiveness to evaluating based on game mechanics(I love class systems, but not everyone does), but no where near the level of aesthetics. With aesthetics, some very minor changes would make the game great in your eyes; while with game mechanics, it'd take major changes to make the game fun.

 

[Skaw]

FFVII had the coolest storyline plus it had no love story. I guess I should say minimal love story or someone will bitch at me, but it was practically absent.

I gotta wonder what version you were playing. The entire fucking game was virtually a love story. Cloud and Aeris. Cloud and Tifa. Yuffie and Cloud's one way affection. Zack and Aeris. Cid and his assistant woman, again, one way for the most part.


You're a damn idiot. Either lay off the pot, or don't button mash during dialogue.

Frankly, the one of the most popular Final Fantasies with the least amount of love story going on is 6. It was really limited to a few Locke and Celes moments, Locke and his dead girlfriend during his sidequest in the World of Ruin, and Setzer and the other airship pilot in his. Edgar was just comic relief in his advances on anything with breasts.

A lot of people are listing unfavored rpgs. Most of Nippon Ichi's RPGs are truly terrible, but are overlooked because of the few ones they put out that are actually decent.

Oh, I forgot to list Barret and his love of the planet. Fucking hippie. PLANETS DYIN CLOUD

 

[Makelith]

Yeah, that totally makes it the same thing, but only if you swap the words and ignore the basis and reasoning behind those statements. Plus, I'm not the one making it my mission to tell everyone how bad the game sucks and think that anyone who could have liked it was wrong. I'm doing that in this thread because it's relevant, but I still don't feel obligated like you do to "correct" people's views on the game. I'm also actually proving reasons why the game was bad, not just "I don't like the way it looks."

Swapping words works perfectly fine reasoning and basis still being the same.

So what if i'm making it my mission? Its equally relevant here, because its a thread about the worst RPG's. I've shown plenty of reasons why the game is bad and many of them have been more than "I don't like the way it looks". If you refer back, i also said i could go on.

Looking to game mechanics is a much more objective rubric, since there are mechanics that work well and those that don't. Those that don't you never see again or see very, very rarely(always in other games that flop too). Enemies leveling with you and stealing your magic are two of those mechanics that bombed and haven't been brought back, for good reason.

Enemies leveling with you was a wonderful mechanic to an RPG. There is nothing more infuriating than just waltzing through the very last dungeon and boss because i spent a few too many hours exploring or what have you. It made for a degree of difficulty in a genre of game that catered to people wanting to do 9999 damage to something as soon as they saw it. That Red Dragon enemy is a terrible example anyways, since it was a normal mob on 1 island very far out of the way of everything that was mostly meant for maxing out your people and your GF's, iirc. I liked the draw system, but i know why everyone else didn't, and the fact that enemies could do it too was a big mistake. Draw is good system, but they just flopped it pretty horridly, and now no one is willing to chance it for fear in following in FF8's footsteps.

There is some subjectiveness to evaluating based on game mechanics(I love class systems, but not everyone does), but no where near the level of aesthetics. With aesthetics, some very minor changes would make the game great in your eyes; while with game mechanics, it'd take major changes to make the game fun.

This is true, but not the point i was arguing. If there were a couple slight details i didn't like about Blue Dragon it would be true. We are talking about a whole revamp in game design, layout design, and character design.

I wasn't expecting another chronotrigger, but i also wasn't expecting to get hit by the bus like i was.

 

[kodi]

Arc the Lad, Twilight of the Spirits - Horrible game.

Suikoden III - close runner up.

 

[StanDarsh]

People who throw their opinions around as fact piss me off.

You must get pissed off pretty frequently. lol

 

[Bajaratt]

Swapping words works perfectly fine reasoning and basis still being the same.

Except aesthetics have no reasoning and basis behind them, they're completely subjective. Saying "I don't like the look of that" works just fine for aesthetics, but not for actual mechanics; there you need a why.

So what if i'm making it my mission? Its equally relevant here, because its a thread about the worst RPG's. I've shown plenty of reasons why the game is bad and many of them have been more than "I don't like the way it looks". If you refer back, i also said i could go on.

Your "plenty of reasons" is 3 reasons: you didn't like the boss music, you didn't like the animations, you didn't like their voices. Those were the reasons you gave, it's hardly plenty and it's definitely not the same reasonings and basis. So far, you just don't like how it looked/sounded; which is enough to not want to play it, but not enough to say that other people are wrong for enjoying it.

Enemies leveling with you was a wonderful mechanic to an RPG.
There is nothing more infuriating than just waltzing through the very last dungeon and boss because i spent a few too many hours exploring or what have you.

No, what's significantly more infuriating is going back to a level near the start of the game to explore those places you couldn't reach before, but all of those level 1 mobs are now level 80 like you; so rather than just run through easily you have to actually fight them. It doesn't even make sense to have mobs from the beginning of the game being just as strong as you are at the end.

If you leveled to the point where enemies in the last dungeon were a joke, that was your decision; and it would have to be way more than "a few too many." Plus, in any good RPG, if you can't beat a boss or if a dungeon is too hard for you, you can just go back and level a little, get a little stronger, then go back and try again. With the mob levels with you system, you could just get people completely stuck on a boss or have a really hard time fighting through the dungeon, since the monsters/boss are getting stronger along with you.

It made for a degree of difficulty in a genre of game that catered to people wanting to do 9999 damage to something as soon as they saw it.

No, it made it impossible for those who wanted to actually level to the point where the fights would be a little easier. If anything, leveling up actually made the game that much more difficult, because the mobs would gain more stats than you did with every level. The whole purpose of leveling up is to get stronger, so that you can kill monsters easier. Mobs leveling with you completely undermines that essential aspect of an RPG.

That's why no one ever uses that system, because it's a bad system.

That Red Dragon enemy is a terrible example anyways, since it was a normal mob on 1 island very far out of the way of everything that was mostly meant for maxing out your people and your GF's, iirc.

It's the most extreme example, but not a terrible one. There were plenty of other mobs that all throughout the game that had moves almost as nasty that you were forced to not be able to level past the danger.

I liked the draw system, but i know why everyone else didn't, and the fact that enemies could do it too was a big mistake. Draw is good system, but they just flopped it pretty horridly, and now no one is willing to chance it for fear in following in FF8's footsteps.

No, it's not a good system. Having to steal your magic makes it an item, not magic. If you were stealing items, that'd be fine, but having to steal casts of a spell is a retarded idea and defies any semblance of logic.

This is true, but not the point i was arguing. If there were a couple slight details i didn't like about Blue Dragon it would be true. We are talking about a whole revamp in game design, layout design, and character design.

So far all you've listed are slight details; all of which are aesthetic that wouldn't have taken very much effort at all to change for the game. Remodel the characters, make a new song for bosses, and use different voice actors. That'd still take significantly less effort than redesigning the battle system or rewriting the story.

 

[Tyrath]

You must get pissed off pretty frequently. lol

I try to avoid their posts as often as possible

 

[StanDarsh]

I try to avoid their posts as often as possible

I hear you, I often have to keep myself from posting to keep from starting an argument because in the end it will just cause more problems than it will solve.

And Baj, must spread more rep. etc.

 

[Calais]

Arc the Lad, Twilight of the Spirits - Horrible game.

Suikoden III - close runner up.

Suikoden 3 actually got pretty decent reviews when it came out, iirc. Overall, a lot of fans liked it too, so I'd like to hear where you're coming from. Interesting villains, badass main characters, totally different type of Tenkai star, addition of skills.... I know some people didn't like how slow paced the battles could be, but I don't see how that ruins the entire game. Especially once you can just hit Let Go on the random battles.

I'll go ahead and second Sanoske with Magna Carta. Hated the slow battles, hated the annoying characters with their annoying voices. It's a shame too, because once I read the ending of the story it actually sounded pretty interesting...though not interesting enough to pick the game back up.

 

[Makelith]

Except aesthetics have no reasoning and basis behind them, they're completely subjective. Saying "I don't like the look of that" works just fine for aesthetics, but not for actual mechanics; there you need a why.

Saying you don't like something, no matter what you're talking about makes it subjective. Weather its mechanics or aesthetics. I don't like the look of anything in the game, because it looks like a stupid campy dragon ball half the time vs. i don't like mechanics of the game because of *insert reason here*.

Your "plenty of reasons" is 3 reasons: you didn't like the boss music, you didn't like the animations, you didn't like their voices. Those were the reasons you gave, it's hardly plenty and it's definitely not the same reasonings and basis. So far, you just don't like how it looked/sounded; which is enough to not want to play it, but not enough to say that other people are wrong for enjoying it.

Those are 3 and as i said i have more. The story is one of the crazy things i've ever heard of. While i was playing it my eyes almost fell out of my head. Robotic ancient sharks and shadows of mysterious godly beings, and one of the most unlikable casts there has ever been in the history of gaming. That awkward way of starting battles with the circle thing. I don't know how to describe it, but you know. I also don't like the lack of random battles, but that's generally something that most people are on the fence with anyway. I wasn't a fan of the class system, but it gets points for trying it where most games wouldn't have. That makes 5 things that aren't "I don't like the way that looks".

No, what's significantly more infuriating is going back to a level near the start of the game to explore those places you couldn't reach before, but all of those level 1 mobs are now level 80 like you; so rather than just run through easily you have to actually fight them. It doesn't even make sense to have mobs from the beginning of the game being just as strong as you are at the end.

If you leveled to the point where enemies in the last dungeon were a joke, that was your decision; and it would have to be way more than "a few too many." Plus, in any good RPG, if you can't beat a boss or if a dungeon is too hard for you, you can just go back and level a little, get a little stronger, then go back and try again. With the mob levels with you system, you could just get people completely stuck on a boss or have a really hard time fighting through the dungeon, since the monsters/boss are getting stronger along with you.


No, it made it impossible for those who wanted to actually level to the point where the fights would be a little easier. If anything, leveling up actually made the game that much more difficult, because the mobs would gain more stats than you did with every level. The whole purpose of leveling up is to get stronger, so that you can kill monsters easier. Mobs leveling with you completely undermines that essential aspect of an RPG.

I'll concede this, because i have nothing to say against it.

No, it's not a good system. Having to steal your magic makes it an item, not magic. If you were stealing items, that'd be fine, but having to steal casts of a spell is a retarded idea and defies any semblance of logic.

Are we really arguing logic in video games? What's logical about a shadow doing damage? What is logical about being able to summon different monsters to destroy your enemies? What is logical about a big guy in a green suit of armor befriending an arbitrary race of aliens to fight another race of aliens before the second race of aliens activates giant rings in space that destroy all living things?

So far all you've listed are slight details; all of which are aesthetic that wouldn't have taken very much effort at all to change for the game. Remodel the characters, make a new song for bosses, and use different voice actors. That'd still take significantly less effort than redesigning the battle system or rewriting the story.

Considering that it would have to be a total revamp of aesthetic in the game, its not exactly slight. I don't see how you can continue to argue that, but whatevs.

 

[Lanien]

Suikoden 3 actually got pretty decent reviews when it came out, iirc. Overall, a lot of fans liked it too, so I'd like to hear where you're coming from. Interesting villains, badass main characters, totally different type of Tenkai star, addition of skills.... I know some people didn't like how slow paced the battles could be, but I don't see how that ruins the entire game. Especially once you can just hit Let Go on the random battles.

I'll go ahead and second Sanoske with Magna Carta. Hated the slow battles, hated the annoying characters with their annoying voices. It's a shame too, because once I read the ending of the story it actually sounded pretty interesting...though not interesting enough to pick the game back up.

I like Suikoden III a lot. 1, 2, and 5 were better, but I would say only 4 was the terrible one.

And how could you not like Magna Carta? The chicks on the cover of the box had HUGE boobs. That makes any game a good game, amirite?

Oh, and I will just say that I loved FFVIII. So there.

 

[Excalibur]

Because Cloud is much better? His friend dies a few years earlier right infront of him to an entire army of Shinra troops, and Cloud just steals his sword and starts living his life. He really worked his way to the top. Then to top it off, he spends the better part of a disc sitting in a wheelchair with his head flopping. Great main character.

In the end, Cloud is such a dick for stealing the identity of Zack. If you play Crisis Core, you will know that Cloud didn't just think he was Zack. He knew full well what he was doing.

And you don't find that awesome?

FF8 was a fucking horrible game, FF7 was better in every single way except for graphics. Stealing your magic was the dumbest idea in any RPG ever, period. Mobs leveling with you is another bad idea that discourages exploration and added artificial difficulty to the game. At the point where you can be max level, with the best gear in the game, and still have to fucking pray that when you fought a red dragon(a normal enemy on one island) you'd either get to go first or they wouldn't do one of their two moves that would instantly wipe your whole party; the enemy mechanics are seriously messed up.

Building your own weapons is a good idea, but they implemented it horribly, with only 4 weapons per person and the only differences between them were power. The story was convoluted and just painfully boring by the halfway point; the characters were so flat if they turned fast enough they'd be invisible. The sole saving grace for that game was that it was pretty, but that only means it was a well polished turd.

I wish I could sig this whole quote.




I'm confused about something though, where is everyone getting this FFVII = emo bullshit all of a sudden? I've never heard anything linking VII and emo ever before and for good reason, there was nothing emo about VII or Cloud. You want someone to call "emo" look at Squall, by the beginning of the third disc he was flailing his arms and balling his eyes out over that one stupid bitch. "OMG I HATED HER 5 SECONDS AGO BUT NOW I'D DIIIIIIIIEEEEE FOR HER FOR NO APPARANT REASON!!" He was cool for the first half or so of the game but turned into such an emo pussy faggot bitch by the end.

I gotta wonder what version you were playing. The entire fucking game was virtually a love story. Cloud and Aeris. Cloud and Tifa. Yuffie and Cloud's one way affection. Zack and Aeris. Cid and his assistant woman, again, one way for the most part.


You're a damn idiot. Either lay off the pot, or don't button mash during dialogue.

Frankly, the one of the most popular Final Fantasies with the least amount of love story going on is 6. It was really limited to a few Locke and Celes moments, Locke and his dead girlfriend during his sidequest in the World of Ruin, and Setzer and the other airship pilot in his. Edgar was just comic relief in his advances on anything with breasts.

A lot of people are listing unfavored rpgs. Most of Nippon Ichi's RPGs are truly terrible, but are overlooked because of the few ones they put out that are actually decent.

Oh, I forgot to list Barret and his love of the planet. Fucking hippie. PLANETS DYIN CLOUD

I'm sorry but I can't argue with anyone retarded enough to think VII had anything more than a blip of love story. I could try, but I doubt you'd understand anything I was saying.

 

[Elemmire]

I gotta wonder what version you were playing. The entire fucking game was virtually a love story. Cloud and Aeris. Cloud and Tifa. Yuffie and Cloud's one way affection. Zack and Aeris. Cid and his assistant woman, again, one way for the most part.


You're a damn idiot. Either lay off the pot, or don't button mash during dialogue.

Frankly, the one of the most popular Final Fantasies with the least amount of love story going on is 6. It was really limited to a few Locke and Celes moments, Locke and his dead girlfriend during his sidequest in the World of Ruin, and Setzer and the other airship pilot in his. Edgar was just comic relief in his advances on anything with breasts.

A lot of people are listing unfavored rpgs. Most of Nippon Ichi's RPGs are truly terrible, but are overlooked because of the few ones they put out that are actually decent.

Oh, I forgot to list Barret and his love of the planet. Fucking hippie. PLANETS DYIN CLOUD

lol, you could make that argument about every FF then being a love story