This is why teenagers don't run economies

[Peregrine]

When people who buy forager's mantles for 2.6 million gil aren't waste of ping.

No where did I say the +1 STR lead to me ownz0ring him like you're causing yourself to believe, but rather that in every single nonskill hit, I did more damage. 80 damage over 1000 fights.

Ahahahahahahaaaaaa...you would pay 1.3 million gil to do 80 more damage over 1000 fights. There you go, ladies and gents. Game. Set. Match. Idiots. All yall are all up in the idiocy. Dude I hope that was a typo, because your jugular is severed if not and you all can go home. This one's over. You know, I wouldn't doubt that the difference between an amemet+1 wearer and a forager's wearer is 80 damage over 1000 fights.

Oh oh but darn. If you threw PEBBLES you'd do more than that over 100 fights! Go amemet!

before you run out to your doctor to have some ribs removed so you can suck your own dick think about something. Makzilla and Skaw are two pimped out MNKs. i don't know all their gear, but i would guess flames maybe the str zm earring, triumphs the top notch shit.

i want to see the parser of the gimp peregrine version of a mnk going up against skaw. ruby rings, minuet(if that) etc. gaurantee your gimp version will get its doors blown.

Pick the thief. Any day, any time. This is the third offer I've made you, you fucking coward.

If your reading comprehension had kicked in, you'd see he'd say your monk equivalent going against Skaw. Nothing about a thf going against you.

That's the best I can do, kid. My monk is 19. You don't think your petty arguments carry into thievery? You don't think my thief can be beaten?

 

[Peregrine]

Here's a cookie for all your tests, which are actually irrelevant to this whole thing.

You're writing off a statisical possibility because it doesn't agree with your point? You don't want to hear about the range, because it's that range that proves you wrong. Yes, you can have an "off night" because due to the range of damage that's possible, you can hit low more often than you hit high. You're also disregarding the downtime of berserk, as skaw mentioned. Since the accuracy isn't going to be a constant from fight to fight, he might have hit more when berserk was down.

Yes, I do want to go down the dexterity road, because you write off the whole thing because it doesn't help you. A hume has naturally more DEX than a Elvaan, which means they're more likely to critical. I never said, or even implied that Skaw was getting tons of criticals, but even getting a couple criticals a fight would add up fast. Since I don't know what weapons they were both using, Skaw could have had destroyers and Mak had something else, who knows? I've gotten 6 criticals in several fights before, so I can easily see Skaw getting several.

Dump your "holier than thou" attitude for a second and maybe you'd realize that you know shit about monks, or anything other than being a thf. Why don't you wait for the parser to get posted before just writing off the whole thing as impossible because you will it so. Until you actually get some kind of data to back you up, and not just what you think, then everything you're saying is an assumption which can EASILY be wrong.

And here's a book for all your ignorance. Go burn it. I know you want to.
You say the data is subject to error? Doesn't matter what you think. I didn't ask your opinion.

 

[Rones]

Wow, 25 pages. Pretty entertaining read. Anyway, Pere you never explained the fault in my logic when I called you a hypocrite.

Amient NQ = 1+ str cheap
Amient HQ = 2+ str 1mill+ cost
Foragers M = 3+ str 2mill+ cost.

According to you it is ok to spend an extra mil to buy HQ Amient for +1 str over NQ, however it is stupid to spend another mill to get Forager for +1 str over HQ Amient. Hypocrisy at its finest.

You can leave the +15ratk out the discussion. It doesn't matter if you do get two ranged attacks in per fight as a thf, that +15 ratk will be lucky to get you 1-2 extra dmg off those two attacks. However, even +.5 dmg per hit with +1 str will kick in for every melee hit which make up 99% of your attacks. You are hypocrite to claim +15 ratk is signifigant and +1 str is not.

 

[hellstorm]

dam you odon and your avatars :shock:

 

[hellstorm]

Wow, 25 pages. Pretty entertaining read. Anyway, Pere you never explained the fault in my logic when I called you a hypocrite.

Amient NQ = 1+ str cheap
Amient HQ = 2+ str 1mill+ cost
Foragers M = 3+ str 2mill+ cost.

According to you it is ok to spend an extra mil to buy HQ Amient for +1 str over NQ, however it is stupid to spend another mill to get Forager for +1 str over HQ Amient. Hypocrisy at its finest.

You can leave the +15ratk out the discussion. It doesn't matter if you do get two ranged attacks in per fight as a thf, that +15 ratk will be lucky to get you 1-2 extra dmg off those two attacks. However, even +.5 dmg per hit with +1 str will kick in for every melee hit which make up 99% of your attacks. You are hypocrite to claim +15 ratk is signifigant and +1 str is not.

you do have a point about the NQ and HQ like I said early that should be the real flame why does NQ go down in price yet the HQ stay high and actually go up in price.

I know I know 1/100 chance getting hq and any seller can make reg and there lot of sellers but still to make the hq 100x more :?: why do you guys pay it :roll:

 

[Peregrine]

Wow, 25 pages. Pretty entertaining read. Anyway, Pere you never explained the fault in my logic when I called you a hypocrite.

Amient NQ = 1+ str cheap
Amient HQ = 2+ str 1mill+ cost
Foragers M = 3+ str 2mill+ cost.

According to you it is ok to spend an extra mil to buy HQ Amient for +1 str over NQ, however it is stupid to spend another mill to get Forager for +1 str over HQ Amient. Hypocrisy at its finest.

You can leave the +15ratk out the discussion. It doesn't matter if you do get two ranged attacks in per fight as a thf, that +15 ratk will be lucky to get you 1-2 extra dmg off those two attacks. However, even +.5 dmg per hit with +1 str will kick in for every melee hit which make up 99% of your attacks. You are hypocrite to claim +15 ratk is signifigant and +1 str is not.

+15 ranged attack is going to yield 1-2 damage more per hit? Are you serious? My +15 is going to do 1-2 per hit, and you think your piddly +1 strength is going to do ANYTHING per hit? Do you know how much damage 100 +.5 hits adds up to? Nothing, that's what. You don't do 72.3 damage. You do 73 or 74, so if you claim that +15 does 1 more damage, your strength is insignificant. Monk's base strength is what...70? % difference between 70 and 71 is 1.4 percent. What's their total strength? 95? Difference between 95 and 96 is 1%. Do you know what my ranged attack would have to be to have 15 extra ranged attack be 1% difference? Let's just say over a thousand.

Your parser will never see a difference, and yet you dropped 1.3 million. Why? You're not going to be better. Your party isn't going to be better. You bought a vanity piece for twice what you could have bought a vanity piece for. Vanity is tolerable. Double vanity, where you pay twice for two sets of insignificant...sad. Are we raising the bar and calling amemet+1 gimp now? Let's go ahead and do that now that s-harness is mandatory for thieves of all jobs. Because we all know that thieves with over 85% accuracy sure do need to equip 12 more accuracy instead of some strength, dex, and attack in that body slot. Need to. NEEEEEEEEEEED GIMMMPPPPPPPPP!!!!!

1 strength point differential at level 75 is insignificantly parsable until you can prove me otherwise. You +1 whores on the forum are breaking the game's back with your stupidity, elitism, and gil-throwing. Amemet+1 is fine. Doesn't make you anything more than an amemet wearer. Then you morons go and fabricate an amemet+2 and call that "high standard." It's pathetic. You paid 1.3 million more to look like a prep when you're the same old meleer you ever were. Bunch of wannabe's who never-will-be what they claim they are...different and exceptional.

 

[Acutie]

Oh for god sakes everyone let this die! There's no way you're going to make a point with Peregrine. No matter what you say, he will have the last word and won't recognize anything you say. A discussion can't progress unless both sides are willing to accept the other person position.

 

[Peregrine]

This isn't a discussion. This is a flame. Never really asked for input. To whom it may concern, take it.

 

[Acutie]

Ok lemme sum up this flame.

Peregrine: You are stupid for buying F. Mantle.
Everyone Else: What's right for you isn't right for me and that doesn't make it stupid.

Done and done!

 

[Bajaratt]

Are we raising the bar and calling amemet+1 gimp now?

Actually, YOU are. If that 1 extra STR is as insignificant as you claim, then amemet+1 is pointless to ever get, since the NQ amemet is "just as good." Hell, why should I even bother with an amemet mantle, 1 more STR isn't going to affect anything, right?

1 strength point differential at level 75 is insignificantly parsable until you can prove me otherwise. You +1 whores on the forum are breaking the game's back with your stupidity, elitism, and gil-throwing. Amemet+1 is fine. Doesn't make you anything more than an amemet wearer.

Right there you're proving that you're a hypocrite. You call us +1 whores, but you're raving about a +1 back piece.

Also, at no point in this thread was anyone acting elitist about owning a forager's mantle. We simplly accepted it as the best mantle that's available for many jobs. That's the key thing that you're missing, it's the best for our jobs. It has more of the stats that actually effect our performance than any other piece of gear in that slot, therefore it is the best. There is nothing stupid or wrong with wanting to be the best, so stop spouting off crap like it's the worst thing you could do.

Do you know how much damage 100 +.5 hits adds up to? Nothing, that's what. You don't do 72.3 damage. You do 73 or 74, so if you claim that +15 does 1 more damage, your strength is insignificant. Monk's base strength is what...70? % difference between 70 and 71 is 1.4 percent. What's their total strength? 95? Difference between 95 and 96 is 1%. Do you know what my ranged attack would have to be to have 15 extra ranged attack be 1% difference? Let's just say over a thousand.

So let me get this straight, a parser will see a minor increase for you and your ranged attacks(which are weak as hell unless you're a rng), but it won't see a 1% increase with my STR? You're forgetting the point that Cubs and Skaw has made, that at 70+, you need STR to do more damage, and that's the ONLY way you're going to get it. Maybe if you were a DD and not a thf, you might understand this. The effect will be minimal, NO ONE has argued against that, but there will still be an effect.

Plus, the game actually DOES calculate things in decimals, they just don't display them. I get 5.5% tp per fist, if I land 1 punch I get 5%, if I land both I get 11%. The game will register the total damage you do, but it will adjust it. If I hit for 100.5 per fist and I land both, I'd see 100 and 101 in my logs, and that's what goes into the parser.

Stick to thf, and leave the gear for every other job alone, since you don't know a goddamn thing about them. I'm done, once again you've done nothing but display your Holier Than Thou attitude, and called everyone an idiot for disagreeing with you and not wanting to be average. You may enjoy being average, but the rest of us actually want to excel.

 

[Skaw]

1 strength point differential at level 75 is insignificantly parsable until you can prove me otherwise. You +1 whores on the forum are breaking the game's back with your stupidity, elitism, and gil-throwing. Amemet+1 is fine. Doesn't make you anything more than an amemet wearer. Then you morons go and fabricate an amemet+2 and call that "high standard." It's pathetic. You paid 1.3 million more to look like a prep when you're the same old meleer you ever were. Bunch of wannabe's who never-will-be what they claim they are...different and exceptional.

Or... we know how the game works. +1 STR is going to give you a percentage boots in damage proportional to the percent or STR is added. It's going to give you a hard number boost in minimum and maximum damage against a mob with comparable VIT.

This last post from you is causing me to give up arguing with you, since you just showed how ignorant you are in regards to how damage is handled. Continue to play your spike(and only spike) damage job, while everyone else can pull their weight in the PT and actually hurt the mob. Continue to ride the coat tails of people who do know how STR influences damage. Let them get your EXP for you, cause hey. It's easier than learning the mechanics of the game and applying them for yourself, right?

Thats all you've shown to me. GG.

 

[Skaw]

er rather, isn't going to give you the percentage boost. Just woke up from a well needed nap.

 

[Caerloc]

Peregrine didnt want to tell me what pieces it was ok
to pay 1,000,000 for +1 str. I didnt think he would.
Instead he gives the advice to buy dexrings instead of
a Foragers mantle. Am i to put that dex-ring in my mantle-slot?
Or am i to leave the mantle slot empty? I dont see what the ring
has to do about anything in this flame, wich is about the best backpiece.

Seriously Peregrine, what makes you think that just because
someone drops a measly 1,3 mil extra on a backpiece they
gimp everything else?

 

[alanon]

1 strength point differential at level 75 is insignificantly parsable until you can prove me otherwise. You +1 whores on the forum are breaking the game's back with your stupidity, elitism, and gil-throwing. Amemet+1 is fine. Doesn't make you anything more than an amemet wearer. Then you morons go and fabricate an amemet+2 and call that "high standard." It's pathetic. You paid 1.3 million more to look like a prep when you're the same old meleer you ever were. Bunch of wannabe's who never-will-be what they claim they are...different and exceptional.

Or... we know how the game works. +1 STR is going to give you a percentage boots in damage proportional to the percent or STR is added. It's going to give you a hard number boost in minimum and maximum damage against a mob with comparable VIT.

This last post from you is causing me to give up arguing with you, since you just showed how ignorant you are in regards to how damage is handled. Continue to play your spike(and only spike) damage job, while everyone else can pull their weight in the PT and actually hurt the mob. Continue to ride the coat tails of people who do know how STR influences damage. Let them get your EXP for you, cause hey. It's easier than learning the mechanics of the game and applying them for yourself, right?

Thats all you've shown to me. GG.

Man, give it up. Pere is nothing but a "begger". He is so stubborn and has such tunnel vision than he will never conceed a point. If he can't come up with an outlandish statement, he just ignores it completely. The funny part is how he call out "teenagers" and "kids" but is only what, 20-21 himself?

 

[deathsvengeance]

Are we raising the bar and calling amemet+1 gimp now?

Actually, YOU are. If that 1 extra STR is as insignificant as you claim, then amemet+1 is pointless to ever get, since the NQ amemet is "just as good." Hell, why should I even bother with an amemet mantle, 1 more STR isn't going to affect anything, right?

1 strength point differential at level 75 is insignificantly parsable until you can prove me otherwise. You +1 whores on the forum are breaking the game's back with your stupidity, elitism, and gil-throwing. Amemet+1 is fine. Doesn't make you anything more than an amemet wearer.

Right there you're proving that you're a hypocrite. You call us +1 whores, but you're raving about a +1 back piece.

Also, at no point in this thread was anyone acting elitist about owning a forager's mantle. We simplly accepted it as the best mantle that's available for many jobs. That's the key thing that you're missing, it's the best for our jobs. It has more of the stats that actually effect our performance than any other piece of gear in that slot, therefore it is the best. There is nothing stupid or wrong with wanting to be the best, so stop spouting off crap like it's the worst thing you could do.

Do you know how much damage 100 +.5 hits adds up to? Nothing, that's what. You don't do 72.3 damage. You do 73 or 74, so if you claim that +15 does 1 more damage, your strength is insignificant. Monk's base strength is what...70? % difference between 70 and 71 is 1.4 percent. What's their total strength? 95? Difference between 95 and 96 is 1%. Do you know what my ranged attack would have to be to have 15 extra ranged attack be 1% difference? Let's just say over a thousand.

So let me get this straight, a parser will see a minor increase for you and your ranged attacks(which are weak as hell unless you're a rng), but it won't see a 1% increase with my STR? You're forgetting the point that Cubs and Skaw has made, that at 70+, you need STR to do more damage, and that's the ONLY way you're going to get it. Maybe if you were a DD and not a thf, you might understand this. The effect will be minimal, NO ONE has argued against that, but there will still be an effect.

Plus, the game actually DOES calculate things in decimals, they just don't display them. I get 5.5% tp per fist, if I land 1 punch I get 5%, if I land both I get 11%. The game will register the total damage you do, but it will adjust it. If I hit for 100.5 per fist and I land both, I'd see 100 and 101 in my logs, and that's what goes into the parser.

Stick to thf, and leave the gear for every other job alone, since you don't know a goddamn thing about them. I'm done, once again you've done nothing but display your Holier Than Thou attitude, and called everyone an idiot for disagreeing with you and not wanting to be average. You may enjoy being average, but the rest of us actually want to excel.

oh snap Baj!

/point Peregrine

 

[Blackmagik]

Pere just give up, you just got ownd massivly, your wrong... admit it for once...

 

[Jagster]

Hell even as thief, I love getting str+ gear where I can without losing other stats. If I use sole sushi instead of squid because lets say I'm using HQ lightning bow instead of a Xbow. The extra 5-6 str gives me about 3-5 more damage per dagger swing normally than from the sushi I was using just before it as the previous food for comparsion.

When you swing for 25-35 damage on hard skin enemies, and average 3-3.5(after double/triple/dual wield) swings per scythe/GSD/polearm swing, you're doing about 70-110 or so average damage per melee round assuming acc is 90%+. Sole sushi just makes it more consistant with the numbers being 30+, go str+ ! So please don't be fools and completely ignore thief DoT either. It's sure as hell not our bright spot, but alot of people miss the big picture that it's fairly decent. It just takes 68 levels before it picks up alot

Don't think the difference would be great between the mantles. If I was to pick an optimal monk to party with, they'd be eqiupped with forger mantle. And I really am not that picky as no one else seems to be anyway. The point these monks are making appears to be, "It's great, but not much better." I don't think this apparent statement warrents some crybaby flame.

 

[Peregrine]

1 strength point differential at level 75 is insignificantly parsable until you can prove me otherwise. You +1 whores on the forum are breaking the game's back with your stupidity, elitism, and gil-throwing. Amemet+1 is fine. Doesn't make you anything more than an amemet wearer. Then you morons go and fabricate an amemet+2 and call that "high standard." It's pathetic. You paid 1.3 million more to look like a prep when you're the same old meleer you ever were. Bunch of wannabe's who never-will-be what they claim they are...different and exceptional.

Or... we know how the game works. +1 STR is going to give you a percentage boots in damage proportional to the percent or STR is added.d applying them for yourself, right?
It's going to give you a hard number boost in minimum and maximum damage against a mob with comparable VIT.

This last post from you is causing me to give up arguing with you, since you just showed how ignorant you are in regards to how damage is handled. Continue to play your spike(and only spike) damage job, while everyone else can pull their weight in the PT and actually hurt the mob. Continue to ride the coat tails of people who do know how STR influences damage. Let them get your EXP for you, cause hey. It's easier than learning the mechanics of the game an
Thats all you've shown to me. GG.

Still waiting on your parser data that shows you out-melee someone with 10% more acc than you just by having one strength point. You don't have the first clue as to how the game works. That's pretty obvious.

+1 STR is going to give you a percentage boots in damage proportional to the percent or STR is added.d applying them for yourself, right?
It's going to give you a hard number boost in minimum and maximum damage against a mob with comparable VIT.

Shut the hell up. What a meaningless comment. How much boost, dumbass? GG...strength boosts things. Wonderful commitment to an opinion.

 

[Caerloc]

Still waiting on peregrine to tell me what is ok to spend 1mil+ on
for +1str. Except on Amemit Mantle+, where it is ok to pay 1,295,000
for an extra+1 str. Im still curious what to do with the ring in my
backpiece slot. Oh, and i also still want to know what makes him think
that someone who drops the extra extra 1 mil on a foragers cant
possibly afford anything else. So many questions.....

 

[Peregrine]

Amemet+1 is fine. Doesn't make you anything more than an amemet wearer.

Right there you're proving that you're a hypocrite. You call us +1 whores, but you're raving about a +1 back piece.

Bajaratt, you're slow, and I can't help that you're slow. Right there in the text that you quoted yourself I said that amemet+1 wearing, and I QUOTE MYSELF, "Doesn't make you anything more than an amemet wearer." And yet you claim that I am, and I quote, "raving about at +1 backpiece."

]There is nothing stupid or wrong with wanting to be the best, so stop spouting off crap like it's the worst thing you could do.

Again, slow. You're operating _ <-there. I'm operating ¯ at that level. You're pathetically ignoring the issue. There is something stupid and wrong with paying 1.3 million gil for no significant improvement above another piece that is 1.3 million gil to begin with...with no significant improvement itself over a piece worth 5k. You want to be the best? It has nothing to do with equipping 1 more strength, blockhead. If you want to be the "best," I suggest you tune up your intelligence. Seems to be the universal limiter here, not your strength. You're always two steps behind and two levels below me.

You're forgetting the point that Cubs and Skaw has made, that at 70+, you need STR to do more damage, and that's the ONLY way you're going to get it. Maybe if you were a DD and not a thf, you might understand this. The effect will be minimal, NO ONE has argued against that, but there will still be an effect.

No, I'm ignoring it at this point, because it's a joke. You all don't have the first clue about game mechanics. Heck, you and skaw are trying to argue that over 1000 fights skaw could have gotten more misses during non-berserk than berserk and that could be the difference. How about no. Seriously, I'm dealing with pure horse-manure posters here. Maybe if you had the first clue about how much your +1 strength actually helped, instead of naively saying "the effect will be minimal, but there will still be an effect," I wouldn't have so much **** to wade through. The effect will be there? How do you know, dumbass? Because you THINK it will be there? No. The effect is not only "minimal" but it stands a good chance of being INSIGNIFICANT. That's what you idiots don't get and probably never will. Your level: 1 is more than 0!!! My level: 1 strength point is insignificantly better at a high level due to the high base and background strength, and the effects of 1 stength is most likely undetectable in even a huge parse data set. So you're fresh out of first grade. Congratulations, you have a keyboard and a simple mind. You're a waste of my time.

Plus, the game actually DOES calculate things in decimals, they just don't display them. I get 5.5% tp per fist, if I land 1 punch I get 5%, if I land both I get 11%. The game will register the total damage you do, but it will adjust it. If I hit for 100.5 per fist and I land both, I'd see 100 and 101 in my logs, and that's what goes into the parser.

Wow. Just...wow. Suddently how much damage you do is coded the same way as tp gain. So you wrote the damage codes, did you...that's neat to know. Mm tell me this: what happens when you don't hit for 100 and 101? What happens when you hit for 100 and 107? Idiot, there are no proof that you carry decimals over in terms of damage. The mob's life goes down by whole numbers, moron. You have no clue if damage acts like TP. Your ignorance is insurmountable. If you hit 10 times, MAYBE your +1 strength would bump you up by 1 point in one of those hits. If you don't believe me, get someone with half a brain to parse the true effects of 1 str on a monk. These idiots in this thread can't even parse right since they claim 1 strength beats 10% acc, and we all know that's horse manure.

Stick to thf

Get a clue, because basically at this point, you're claiming that +1 strength helps a monk more than it helps anyone else because monks make use of half-point averages that get carried over. Picked that gem of a turd right out your ass and posted it on page 26. *clap*