Whitemage's: Please read.

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Zanaga. As Mistaya said, Dhalmel lowers DEF. I think it would be more worth it to have erase to counter a move that majorly lowers DEF than to have a bit more MP for shining ruby. Once again this is my opinion.

read closely next time -.-

Fighting dhamels in Bibiki Bay. Dhamel uses its defense down move. Suddenly our level 70 Elvaan pld's def is no joke "115".

key words in there are: Dhamels, Bibiki Bay, and level 70

nothing i said did i refer to shining ruby countering def down, i said when struggling on harder mobs, i can use it to boost def and encrease the party capabilites, making it easier to put the mob out of it's misery.

Cmon guys... its only 300k. /sigh

if 300k is that little to you, send me 300k to my DB, i bought erase before this thread had even started, and i really wanted a magician's earring, which is 300k, so since it's such a little ammount, i wanna see you send me 300k to my DB.

this is the same crap that is going to happen with raise III, if it shoots up to 800k again. i deal with death, and getting raise all the time, not raise II mind you, just plaing old raise, the good old lvl 25 spell. i have yet to complain about it, i dont' care, i'm getting xp back, i'm happy, mabye i'm lucky and reraise II is on, which comes several lvls later, so for about 6 lvls everyone BUT the white mage enjoys the luxary of raise II, then at lvl 60 the white mage has to remember to keep reraise II up, so they can enjoy the luxary of raise II, raise III is lvl 70, reraise III is lvl 75, there is luxary, and there is need, decifer the differance. you may NEED a raise, but you don't NEED a raise II or III.

us white mages put up with enough crap as it is, the LAST thing we need to hear, is something as stupid as a group of melee, who think they know how to play white mage, telling us to buy a 300k luxary spell. granted it's been shown that there is a slight need for it, in bibiki bay, at lvl 70

so apparently all you melee have proved so far, is that it's need is for 70+, cause i do see a problem with a lvl 70 pld having less then 200 def. but this still isn't the best choice to lvl off of these dhamel in bibiki bay if they are going to send the PLD's def down that much, consider the casting time for erase, it's about 2.5x slower then your normal ensauna spells. if i were a PLD, i'd be avoiding those dhamel like the plague.

there are 2 things i know, i'm not going to get that 300k in my DB, and that all anyone is ever going to do, is complain because white mages don't have this crappy little spell, so they will continue to wine and complain because of it. none of you will take action to make it easier to access for white mages, because YOU DON'T CARE! i've mentioned multiple times on ways to make this spell more readily accessable to white mages, everyone so far has overlooked those ways. if i had enough beastmen seals and a party that was willing, i'd lower that stupid price to 50k. if your interested, in helping me make this spell more accessable, then gimme a tell in game, or post, offering your help. currently though, i dont' expect any of you to do this, because you think 300k is such a small ammount of gil.
 
Zanaga said:
Zanaga. As Mistaya said, Dhalmel lowers DEF. I think it would be more worth it to have erase to counter a move that majorly lowers DEF than to have a bit more MP for shining ruby. Once again this is my opinion.

read closely next time -.-

Fighting dhamels in Bibiki Bay. Dhamel uses its defense down move. Suddenly our level 70 Elvaan pld's def is no joke "115".

key words in there are: Dhamels, Bibiki Bay, and level 70

nothing i said did i refer to shining ruby countering def down, i said when struggling on harder mobs, i can use it to boost def and encrease the party capabilites, making it easier to put the mob out of it's misery.

Cmon guys... its only 300k. /sigh

if 300k is that little to you, send me 300k to my DB, i bought erase before this thread had even started, and i really wanted a magician's earring, which is 300k, so since it's such a little ammount, i wanna see you send me 300k to my DB.

this is the same crap that is going to happen with raise III, if it shoots up to 800k again. i deal with death, and getting raise all the time, not raise II mind you, just plaing old raise, the good old lvl 25 spell. i have yet to complain about it, i dont' care, i'm getting xp back, i'm happy, mabye i'm lucky and reraise II is on, which comes several lvls later, so for about 6 lvls everyone BUT the white mage enjoys the luxary of raise II, then at lvl 60 the white mage has to remember to keep reraise II up, so they can enjoy the luxary of raise II, raise III is lvl 70, reraise III is lvl 75, there is luxary, and there is need, decifer the differance. you may NEED a raise, but you don't NEED a raise II or III.

us white mages put up with enough crap as it is, the LAST thing we need to hear, is something as stupid as a group of melee, who think they know how to play white mage, telling us to buy a 300k luxary spell. granted it's been shown that there is a slight need for it, in bibiki bay, at lvl 70

so apparently all you melee have proved so far, is that it's need is for 70+, cause i do see a problem with a lvl 70 pld having less then 200 def. but this still isn't the best choice to lvl off of these dhamel in bibiki bay if they are going to send the PLD's def down that much, consider the casting time for erase, it's about 2.5x slower then your normal ensauna spells. if i were a PLD, i'd be avoiding those dhamel like the plague.

there are 2 things i know, i'm not going to get that 300k in my DB, and that all anyone is ever going to do, is complain because white mages don't have this crappy little spell, so they will continue to wine and complain because of it. none of you will take action to make it easier to access for white mages, because YOU DON'T CARE! i've mentioned multiple times on ways to make this spell more readily accessable to white mages, everyone so far has overlooked those ways. if i had enough beastmen seals and a party that was willing, i'd lower that stupid price to 50k. if your interested, in helping me make this spell more accessable, then gimme a tell in game, or post, offering your help. currently though, i dont' expect any of you to do this, because you think 300k is such a small ammount of gil.

I love this ... nice job ...

Also. I really like this idea of a bunch of us goin' in and doin' a BCNM and knockin' that price down on erase for the up and coming whm's ... I'm in and I have 99 Beastman Seals I'll put toward it asap ... sorry but I used to have a ton and no one to these with so I tossed em ...
 
Also. I really like this idea of a bunch of us goin' in and doin' a BCNM and knockin' that price down on erase for the up and coming whm's ... I'm in and I have 99 Beastman Seals I'll put toward it asap ... sorry but I used to have a ton and no one to these with so I tossed em ...

well, so far, i have myself and another willing to actually take action. what about the rest of you guys? i'm willing to go farm some seals if i have to, but i need to see 4 more people willing to help.
 
comparing a 300k scroll to a 7mil neckpiece is retarded. thats all i have to say about that.
That was the entire point. :x It is absurd to say just because something is available that you must have it despite the fact that it is near useless. Sure get it at 70+ when its critical, by then that money should be attainable with much less effort than at 32.

Let's keep this all in perspective. For most low-mid whms 300k is going to take a couple weeks of work at best. And all to save the party at best a few mins of downtime over his career from 32-75 whm (assuming you avoid dhamels at 70) which is going to result in 20+ days of exping?
I assumed that the normal damage was calculated in a similar method as above, as I'm very farmiliar with the above formulas. I assumed it was [Damage] = ([Base Damage] + [D]) x [Damage Rate]. Since there are no examples on that sight showing if the parenthasis should be in there, I won't comment any more on that matter. I do believe that is how it would work though.
I'm pretty sure it isn't times the whole thing from when I've seen Applepie use this formula on ffxionline.com, but it could be. Even if it was Damage rate multiplier looks like in the long run damage rate multiplier is going to average around 1, which won't result in much change for your base dmg amount.

ffxionline.com is down atm, so I can't go over my numbers yet. The point I was trying to get at about it having less effect on the ws though wasn't that the dmg reduced would be less than a normal hit, but less percentage wise, for example: 1,000 dmg ws hit with 10 dmg reducded isn't as bad as a 25 dmg regular hit with 5 dmg reducded. (extreme example for clarity's sake)

Again, this is even going around the minor effect erase even has on solving the str down effect from crabs. Most crabs will use bubble shower 2-4 times a fight, that's 18 mp x 3 melees and with a casting time of 2.5 and recast of 15, that results in the whm spending the entire fight standing casting erase just before the crab does it again. Which means all that casting and missed mp the whm could have got from resting resulted in only a few hits avoiding the crabs str down. I would even go so far as to say there are times it would be better for the whm to rest during that time when he would be casting erase on the 3 melees, get some mp from resting that time, add in the mp saved from not erasing, and throw a couple divine nukes to do more dmg than the melees would have got from erase(I don't do this, but it has the potential to be more effective than erasing against crabs). At 72 I love mbing banishga2 for 450+. I'm no blm, but for 120 mp that's not shabby eithier.
 
I've literally given erase to no less than 3 whm's in BCNM40 parties. If the whm has friends this isnt really all that hard.

I wouldnt reccomend using erase on a crabs bubble shower at all, like you said rones its wasted since its not that harsh of an effect and the crab will do it again 5 secs later. But spider slow and beetle and bat eva down is awful... Talk to any ninja and he will tell you stories. Someone mentioned stun to assist the ninja. Well why the hell should the DRK or BLM use their spell when you couldnt buy yours.

As to why you should get the upper level raises... sure raise 1 is ok. Raise 2 is very nice... But raise 3...is..........omgsonice. One of the key reasons whm's arent replaced by rdm's late in the game is rdm's can only raise 1.

Like i said before, up until around 65 Erase is a luxery.. but after that you really should have it.

Think for a sec whm's about all the pt's you hated because SOMEONE didnt have the best gear. All the ones you 'were sleepy' or flat out ditched because the pt COULD have been better but wasnt due to the tank or melee's equip (Not player skill thats a different category). Then think about the double standard.

Why should i as a melee pay 1mil for sniper rings just so you whiny bitchy stupid mages can accept me into your pt eh?! heres a hint: a melee wont sell those rings back. EVER. they are as permanent a fixture on his body as your spell. oh yeah they costed 700k more.

Sorry for the rant and no Rones that was not directed at you at all. I've just had it up to my fuzzy little eartips with mages who get away with being cheap because they can, while the melees farm for months straight just to sit in Jeuno for another 6hrs.

Also sorry Kat, didnt know.
 
wow dont you bitches have farming buddys and hunt NMs?

many of the richest players on the server are the ones who get a buddy of sorts, a whm can easily find a melee and make some nice $$$

i always brought a rdm or whm or hell even my DRK friend all over when I farmed and we did quite nicely, maybe 30-50k each for 2-3 hrs of work, sure I could have made more myself but i didnt mind helping out my friends make some money

oh yeah thats sharing and hard work... which is probably a foreign concept to many here...
 
Time is also a consideration. If people can play for only 2 hours per day then they surely don't want to spend those 2 hours into farming. Of course this is a personal choice, some people may decide to farm for 2 hours. But I bet most won't. Going to BC is the real choice of getting Erase with cheaper expence.

The BC better be organised amoung your LS, friend or who ever you can trust. It is not uncommon someone gets away with the 300k profit. And people, if you say it is only 300k then you are like saying to a monk to have a Ochiudo kote back 10 months ago. And how many monks have you seen with it. There is an option of camping or getting in AH. Same with Erase, the option is get yourself or pay the high price in AH. People who doesn't have the time to farm, and hard time to coordinate a tour for BCNM runs may find both options difficult. Before saying its an excuse, no one has unlimited time. If you are a student with abundant time, don't even come here blaming people to farm.

I farmed, with my friend. Yes he doesn't have much time but so do I. So cooperationg together to get a spell that he needed most was fun to do. Even if it was 3 weeks non stop killing tigers. Then several times after, our defeat of Lord of Onzozo and the drop of Kraken club netted 2million each for all members. With that money my friend bought himself a verm cloak. Since then farming went smooth, and we are able to make 25k per hour for each of us. It takes time to make good profit per hour. Crafting is nice, but remember you need initial cash to do some serious crafting.

My friend now doing fishing alot, and started cooking as his craft. I am doing various crafting now that I have some cash to spare and my rng is now on hold.
 
As to why you should get the upper level raises... sure raise 1 is ok. Raise 2 is very nice... But raise 3...is..........omgsonice. One of the key reasons whm's arent replaced by rdm's late in the game is rdm's can only raise 1.

so basically, yoru saying i'm the crap beneath your feet, and it's not worth it to party with me, other then the fact that i have high lvl raises...

why is there this constant ongoing search to find another job that can possibly do the white mages's job? there is no job that can do it, anywhere near as efficiently as a white mage, we are IT when it comes to main healers. No, summoners ARE NOT main healers, they are damage dealers, lets look back at the previous FF games, summons = lots of damage, FFTA summoner job = lots of damage. but apparently for some reason everyone thinks summoner is a main healer in this game. but look at it, why the hell would a summoner sub black mage? they wouln't, the combination would be pointless, because the spells would be too weak, white mage sub gives benefit! have you ever seen a summoner play as a damage dealer? they can do quite the bit of damage if they know how to play their job.

so explain to me, why are people so afraid of white mages that they seek other jobs that they can try to sub as main healer?
 
As to why you should get the upper level raises... sure raise 1 is ok. Raise 2 is very nice... But raise 3...is..........omgsonice. One of the key reasons whm's arent replaced by rdm's late in the game is rdm's can only raise 1.

so basically, yoru saying i'm the crap beneath your feet, and it's not worth it to party with me, other then the fact that i have high lvl raises...

why is there this constant ongoing search to find another job that can possibly do the white mages's job? there is no job that can do it, anywhere near as efficiently as a white mage, we are IT when it comes to main healers. No, summoners ARE NOT main healers, they are damage dealers, lets look back at the previous FF games, summons = lots of damage, FFTA summoner job = lots of damage. but apparently for some reason everyone thinks summoner is a main healer in this game. but look at it, why the hell would a summoner sub black mage? they wouln't, the combination would be pointless, because the spells would be too weak, white mage sub gives benefit! have you ever seen a summoner play as a damage dealer? they can do quite the bit of damage if they know how to play their job.

so explain to me, why are people so afraid of white mages that they seek other jobs that they can try to sub as main healer?
 
Because, as damage dealers, they're a dime a dozen. It's not hard to find that dark knight or dragoon you need, because everyone who wants to be cool and evil picks one. They're everywhere. There are three options for tank classes. As such, tanks also have bargaining power for pt choice. There's only one devoted healer class. Classes who have to take any pt they can get because they're so overpopulated resent the pre 41 levels where a pt was made or broken on the whim of the whm. They want the whm's that made their exp time difficult to learn what it's like to LFG. I know as a whm, that I've never gone LFG. Not being anon is all I need to get invites. To people that know I'm a whm, even being anon isn't a barrier to invites. I'm not threatened by pt's that choose red mages and summoners over white mages. At worst, maybe I take off /anon for what, an hour, instead of 30 minutes? Who knows, maybe I'll get to use the LFG flag that's rested dormant for 32 levels?
 
Pomp, get ready for a very rude awakening as you get replaced 41+ by rdms. And smn with the right setup can also replace us. I've gone weeks lfp 3-4 hours a day without a party. I came so close to quiting in my 60s because there were always 3-4 other whms within 2 lvls of me lfp (usually JP which meant they got first invite). Party's were made and broken on the whim of the brd and rdm, not the whm who was dime a dozen. Don't expect your demand to last, it vanishes sadly. :(
 
This is true ... I remember Rones telling me when he was having problems how lucky I was to be in a static and to stick with it as long as possible ... well luckily my static lasted til lvl 70 ...

Then I just got very lucky and it was a chance incident how it happened ... Grayswander had died in Garlaige Citadel and needed a Raise III ... I was the whm to come raise him and we pretty much leveled together til we each got lvl 75 ...

I owe so much to Gray, Prophecy and Ultraseven ... I can't begin to thank them enough for always looking to see if I was online first before they took another whm who was seeking ...

I also owe my Rank 10 to Prophecy and quite a few others for my Rank 7-9 like Ujio, Maseki, Yanzi (even though he's blm, but still have to mention the Yanz :wink: ) to name a few ... so please don't cut down your melee's too much ... without them we couldn't level or get half the stuff we do ...
 
Zanaga said:
No, summoners ARE NOT main healers, they are damage dealers,

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHahahahaha...ha.

LOL.

ok... ok... OK OK OK OK.

I'm a damage dealer XD ROFL.

Poison Nails GO!

:roll:
 
so basically, yoru saying i'm the crap beneath your feet, and it's not worth it to party with me, other then the fact that i have high lvl raises...

Basically what most WHM say is oh you dont have 2 snipers, your crap beneath my feet i wont party with you to the meelees, then expect us to accept your not having Erase because hey it's expensive. If your not like that (i can think of 3-6 whm's i know who arent total pricks,) then disregard my post.

It's a two way street. Why should the whm get off easy ona 300k spell. Especially one that is as important as blindna or paralyna. If you argue its not worth it (again i state post 65 is the only time i expect it in a whm) then thats like the whm who never bought paralyna saying his pt gets by without it. Sure the pt does fine, but it could do a lot BETTER if the whm had his spell. I've yet to meet a whm who has erase and said 'Man i wish i hadnt bought this spell its useless; ;' its always 'oh god i should have farmed for this sooner! ^^'

WHM is not all that special past refresh. A pt with a rdm or smn main heal does extroardinarily well, ask most ninja and they will say they prefer non-whm main healer. Thats half the tanking population.

And no raise2 and 3 are not the only reasons to pick up a whm, theres stona, (omg another status cure!) which is not sub-bable and essential on high level lizards and cockatrices. Cure5 is handy as well.

Saying the high level rezzes are key to whm getting a party is like saying dark's get invites because of sata spinning slash. Its something they specialize in. Its not an insult. Obviously thats not the only thing they bring to the table but thats one of the major points. If you choose not to have the higher level raises you only hurt yourself by making yourself less desirable. Then again pretty much any pt is going to assume you have those high level raises an when push comes to shove and you dont'... You look like an ass. And probably won't get reinvited.

Of course you can be the shittiest player in the world and get 75, thanks to the almighty static party. So it may not stop you from leveling.

*You is used in the general sense not singling any individual out here.*
P.S. lol@svina
 
SMN, are DD 70+ I believe not to sure about that. But in the higher levels they do become DD. They count as main healer for awhile before that too..



I think... :oops:
 
They are considered a competent DD yes at 70. What good is they can do massive damage for no hate at all to the caster. Although it is limited to 1min (55secondish with austare if I remember...) its a good damage source. Leviathan to be the most accurate, and Garuda / Ifrit / Titan to be the most damaging... "IF IT HITS" since damage varies alot -_-;. Against weak mobs? Its nearly cheating how awfull damage those things can do.
 
i'll agree with lvl 65+ needs erase, heck, it came in handy once last night in the labrynth of onzozo when the rng accidently aggroed a manticore. not that it was of any use except for that one fight, but it was nice to get choke and bind off the paladin. but i still don't see any whm below 60-65 having erase (which is why this post was started by Krono).

and, no, i'm not one of those anal little bastard white mages who refuse to party because they THINK snipers/harb/scorp harness/etc. are the best things in the world, because i am not a melee, i don't know, i wouln't know, becaues i don't go researching melee gear, because it would be pointless for me, so, i'm not one of those white mages. (i've seen quite a few melee do just fine without them)

main reason i've been all over this thread, i buy erase and a few days later, i see Krono come along and start flaming white mages. I'm not all that happy about erase, it same in handy soloing Lost Souls for staff skill yes, and in my party last night for 2 stat effects, but until i get a good use for a spell, i dislike it, and i have yet to get a good constant use for it, so now you see my point of view on the spell, when i get a good, constant use for it, i'll be glad i put 300k down to buy the spell.

as a side note, i've seen summoner skillchains do quite alot of damage, try doing red lotus blade > ifrit's double punch on hell bats in gustav, i saw a paladin and a summoner do a massive gravitation skillchain that way, and avatar TP only depletes on magic spells, so if you build it up, you can do a bit more damage then a black mage with the same spell. my subjob is summoner, and i've played around with it, all avatars but fenrir so far, just need lvl 70 white mage to take him on.
 
I've yet to meet a whm who has erase and said 'Man i wish i hadnt bought this spell its useless; ;'
Uhm I said that earlier in this thread. :lol: Comparing it to paralyna is incorrect. Paralyna is commonly needed and much more critical to remove than most of the status effects you will encounter for erase. For exp purposes, the spell really does come across as worthless and the money would be better put toward a vermillion cloak, cursed gear, or just about anything the whm is lacking. Comparing a whm lacking erase to a melee lacking sniper's isn't a good comparison either. Sniper rings have a direct effect on exp rate (kill faster), while erase will typically have 0 effect with a few exceptions that could even be avoided by being selective on what you exp against (avoid dhamels and spiders for example). You can't simply pick a mob to exp on that will give 100% accu, so sniper's will always have an effect unlike erase. I use erase about as much as my barstatus effects spells which says a lot to anyone with whm experience. Like I said before, I don't even keep it macroed it is used so little (Stona, silena, paralyna, poisona are permanent fixtures in my macros though).
 
I don't know I've been playing WHM recently and I find that I've had to use erase a LOT. No for the most part I must erase to kill slow, like for example spiders in quicksand caves. I need to erase evasion down on nin or war tank and FAST. I need to erase burn frost drown ext. Personally I would feel pretty ashamed to tell a ninja all decked out with 800k+ in evasion gear it's all screwed over by evasion down that I can't erase.
 
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