WHM Melee

iaredrew

iaredrew

I love you guys :)
Adventurer
Joined
Sep 21, 2007
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471
Main Job
Dancer-Female
Secondary Job
RedMage-Male
Third Job
Dancer-Female
Before I start, let me say this is not another "Melee mage can out DD youz lol" thread. This is simply a situational discussion on the mechanics of the game to clarify and elaborate on a certain topic. With that being said:

Situation A)
None AoE/Non-damage insignificant stat- AoE mobs:

There's not too many of them, but there are some that won't affect you enough to make a difference. I've heard someone mention the fact of giving the mob TP if you're attacking it and casting at the same time. This I can understand as BLM already feeds 10TP per DD spell and then every hit will give the mob an additional TP supplement. This is why I won't do it on BLM, but on WHM, if you're competent enough to walk and chew bubblegum at the same time, I see no reason why you should sit in the back and be lazy.

Situation B)
The dreaded PL:

I really wish it was against game rules to PL any person at any time outside of a duo. It makes most people lazy because they think, "Oh this is a how a PT works, spamspamspam." No thank you. BUT if you realize that the PL is only there as a means of support then you should still be able to function normally according to your job.

This is the main point of this thread. A WHM cannot skillup healing with a PL, and if there's a RDM in the pt, you can forget about enfeebling. What's left, Divine Magic nukes? I don't understand why everyone would get butthurt if you were meleeing and regening up front and going back to the back should the PL need MP, go afk, etc.



It really is beyond me how people would not explore at least a tad bit outside the box on mechanics if they're there to be toyed with. The whole "You have healing spells, you heal. You have damage spells, you nuke. You have abilities, you melee" is ridiculous. I'm interested to see where this goes, and if anyone has valid arguments on the TP feeding issue at lower levels, I'm definitely all ears.
 
I used to work with Qutera(sp? was a long long time ago) a lot and she always would melee on whm lol was kind of fun. actually back in the day on blm against non-aoe mobs when chaincasting I would melee at same time get a few hits between spells. now though I don't really see a reason to worry about meleeing, just feeding pointless tp when you could be resting mp, whole point of blm is mostly high damage well feeding low tp. for whm yes I would pretty much only melee if we had a PL I remember one PT with a 6 person SC lol.

oh and btw blm and whm both get higher melee skills than pup :P
 
There's a reason why the Damage/TP ratio is important...

eg: In the dunes, a crab has 2 buffs, a physical defense buff, and a magical defense buff. If it happens to get both up, it becomes really hard to damage it. With normal mellees the mob will usually be nearly dead when this happens, with non-effective mages wailing on it, it gets far more chances, and may have both up at ~50%.

It draws out fights, it uses extra resources, and it ultimately cost you efficiency and experience. More mob specials mean longer fights or more resources being used.






iaredrew said:
Situation A)
None AoE/Non-damage insignificant stat- AoE mobs:

There's not too many of them, but there are some that won't affect you enough to make a difference. I've heard someone mention the fact of giving the mob TP if you're attacking it and casting at the same time. This I can understand as BLM already feeds 10TP per DD spell and then every hit will give the mob an additional TP supplement. This is why I won't do it on BLM, but on WHM, if you're competent enough to walk and chew bubblegum at the same time, I see no reason why you should sit in the back and be lazy.

It really is beyond me how people would not explore at least a tad bit outside the box on mechanics if they're there to be toyed with. The whole "You have healing spells, you heal. You have damage spells, you nuke. You have abilities, you melee" is ridiculous. I'm interested to see where this goes, and if anyone has valid arguments on the TP feeding issue at lower levels, I'm definitely all ears.
Click to expand...


I don't see why you think theres a difference between the WHM and the BLM melleeing, both add the same TP for minimal damage...
 
Whm actually gets damaging clubs in the form of hammers, and Hexa. Still shouldn't be meleeing in most situations but no one melees worse than blm, except maybe smn which is on par ignoring the pet. So, no one melees worse than blm.
 
Neisan said:
Whm actually gets damaging clubs in the form of hammers, and Hexa.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but Hexastrike is in the 60s. And if you use a someone else to heal your party in the 60s, you're definitely not doing it right.
 
Courtney said:
There's a reason why the Damage/TP ratio is important...

eg: In the dunes, a crab has 2 buffs, a physical defense buff, and a magical defense buff. If it happens to get both up, it becomes really hard to damage it. With normal mellees the mob will usually be nearly dead when this happens, with non-effective mages wailing on it, it gets far more chances, and may have both up at ~50%.

It draws out fights, it uses extra resources, and it ultimately cost you efficiency and experience. More mob specials mean longer fights or more resources being used.
Click to expand...

I see your point, but would the same not happen if you were to replace the mage with say a thf? Although I suppose the base tp of a dagger would be less than the base tp of a club.

I don't see why you think theres a difference between the WHM and the BLM melleeing, both add the same TP for minimal damage...
Click to expand...

I explained that already, a DD spell supposedly adds 10tp/cast, whereas a WHM won't be casting DD spells. A WHM wouldn't be casting Banish and meleeing at the same time, cures don't add TP obviously.
 
Neisan said:
Whm actually gets damaging clubs in the form of hammers
Click to expand...

This. At lower levels a club is actually pretty decent if it's kept up in skill like any other weapon. Coupled with a modifier of STR30% and MND30%, as an elvaan you're in the money as far as WS dmg goes.

Obviously all of this is referring to at least below 50. Too many effects and abilities coming off mobs for a mage to be up close to it in higher levels. Sure a WHM can cleanse a melee of those effects but who's gonna cleanse the WHM?
 
My bad for not reading. I wouldn't melee past 30 on Whm, and only did that because we had a PL.
 
iaredrew said:
I see your point, but would the same not happen if you were to replace the mage with say a thf? Although I suppose the base tp of a dagger would be less than the base tp of a club.



I explained that already, a DD spell supposedly adds 10tp/cast, whereas a WHM won't be casting DD spells. A WHM wouldn't be casting Banish and meleeing at the same time, cures don't add TP obviously.
Click to expand...

A Thief gets SA at 15, pre 15, THFs really do struggle on crabs. In most cases you won't use a THF as a pure DD, and often at low levels (before they can SATA, and before there are decent dagger WSs) THF will use a sword instead of a dagger to negate some of the problems with the low damage of daggers.

A BLM and a WHM add the same low damage/TP ratio. You explained it but you don't understand that it makes no difference to the efficiency of the party whether its the BLM or the WHM thats melleeing. Its about the same reduction in party efficiency.
 
Well if you had a PL and really wanted a DD you'd dump the whm meleeing and pick up a War. :)

Sorry but I have rather strong opinons about Whm's meleeing when they should be cureing. I dont try to replace a whm by curing on my Pld. You want to be a DD, go level a DD job.
 
I dont recall ever having a good party in the dunes from 10-13 without a pl.
 
TP of the mob usually isnt that big of a deal in a good group. If you got a WHM in a party with a PL than I don't see a big deal if the WHM melees as long as they're also making sure everyone's staying healed. Generally though, I'd prolly opt for a DD in place of that WHM unless the PL was with the WHM. But, I certainly wouldn't complain in the Dunes if the WHM wanted to melee and brought a PL.. that's just better exp all around. <shrugs>.

Only time I really get frustrated with melee mages is when they neglect their primary responcibilities. And generally, if they're meleeing, they are. Not always, but the majority of the time they are. If they're getting their job done and not causing added stress to the healer than let them amuse themselves, after all FFXI is just a game.

Edit: Also, has anyone aside from myself wondered why WHMs get STR modifers on their gear?
 
Neisan said:
Whm actually gets damaging clubs in the form of hammers, and Hexa. Still shouldn't be meleeing in most situations but no one melees worse than blm, except maybe smn which is on par ignoring the pet. So, no one melees worse than blm.
Click to expand...

SCH. We get awful skill caps in the weapons we can use ;)
 
Sharpe said:
SCH. We get awful skill caps in the weapons we can use ;)
Click to expand...

Give SE time to give you "The Art of War" or something like that, so you can have an A+ skill in every fucking thing you guys decide to do.

/grumble
 
We have lolparry skill at least!
 
I think as stated earlier, the two situations you suggested should either not involve WHM meleeing anyway, or can be avoided by replacing the WHM with another DD job (in the case of a PL).

May I derail a bit here though and note that WHM is actually capable of meleeing in certain merit party situations, while supplying enough damage to make it worthwhile. WHM has access to some very powerful weapons, high weapon skill rating, Hexa Strike, and a very high amount of haste gear (namely from blessed set). It's possible, but of course if the situation is so lax that the WHM can melee, your setup needs to be considered. Lol
 
In response to setups needing to be changed out for another DD with the PL. The PL in this instance was touch and go. As in, they weren't there at the start, then decided to pop by and then leave again 15-20 min later.

So yes, obviously if the PL was there for the whole party you would get more DD.

Also, I believe that WHMs get STR on their gear because of the Primary Modifiers on club weapon skills. Almost every club weapon skill is a 30-35% STR modifier with the occasinal MND secondary.

Thanks for keeping this civil, guys. Really enjoying reading your answers to this.
 
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