WHM Melee

[Uzor]

Yes, I know. But it is harder to get exp by purely curing is what I'm saying. Which means some people just half-afk in Campaign while meleeing, which is what people mentioned earlier.

 

[Kotsu]

Yes, I know. But it is harder to get exp by purely curing is what I'm saying. Which means some people just half-afk in Campaign while meleeing, which is what people mentioned earlier.

Well, turns out video games aren't the exception to the age old rule.

Rule = People suck.

 

[Uzor]

It depends. 30% are born with the "Stupid" gene. That is a genetically mutation on the brain which makes it so that people have a harder time learning from their mistakes.

So for 30% of the population, that rule is true.

 

[Sandria]

Besieged doesn't bug me much. I just hate when I'm getting owned by mnks in Campaign and there's 3-4 RDMs, a couple WHMs and a couple PLDs there not doing a single thing but auto-attacking.

Like Uzor already mentioned, you have to blame SE for that.. and from the sounds of the next patch they're going to make it worse with changing the way you can get new tags. When they add the new NMs and I'm playing WHM and wanting to beat those NMs I'd play WHM by the book, but in regular zones I try to pace my mana cus I'm better off hitting the mob hasting and curing myself then spreading the love. That's not to say that I don't give out cures to other people when I have a decent amount of mana, but overall its better to save it for myself so that I can get exp from healing and from being damaged. Usually I'm on summoner, but if you ever see me in campaign on whm throw me an invite and I'll look after ya.


Jamal,
I agree with you to an extent but not fully. If you have a PL TP isnt that big of a deal. It is a problem, imo, if a WHM is meleeing in say a merit party. Or really past the levels of having a PL. Even tho I don't melee whm much anymore, I think I am far more well rounded having the melee skills than had I not had them. Difference is for me, I use SMN in place of the sittuations where I might have melee'd whm in the past.


Kotsu,
I'm really curious of what kind of set-up you were working with, what lvls you were doing your whm/nin, and the kinda exp per hour you were getting. I believe everything is worth trying to prove or disprove how benificial something can be. It just seems to me that overal the party wasnt living up to its full potential. If you and the RDM were both meleeing and both sharing the healing, it seems like one of you should have been replaced with say.. a DD job for optimal EXP. I could be wrong, I don't have any idea what kind of set up you had or what you guys were parsing at.. That's not to say that every party has to be all about the exp/hr either. I'd just like more info to support your theory.

 

[iaredrew]

Before I start, let me say this is not another "Melee mage can out DD youz lol" thread. This is simply a situational discussion on the mechanics of the game to clarify and elaborate on a certain topic. With that being said:

Quoted for emphasis.

 

[iaredrew]

In short, the best club (beside lol relic) is like a crap rdm sword.

That was severly disappointing by the way.

 

[jamal]

Jamal,
I agree with you to an extent but not fully. If you have a PL TP isnt that big of a deal. It is a problem, imo, if a WHM is meleeing in say a merit party. Or really past the levels of having a PL. Even tho I don't melee whm much anymore, I think I am far more well rounded having the melee skills than had I not had them. Difference is for me, I use SMN in place of the sittuations where I might have melee'd whm in the past.

If you have a PL, the whm shouldn't be in the party at dunes level. Get a job that does ANY damage. You can learn to melee to well-round yourself in a skill-up party where that is the party's goal. When the goal is the most exp possible in said amount of time, having a whm melee is never the correct answer.

Ever.

 

[Kotsu]

We were talking about Campaign. Rdm & I duo'd in campaign.
Templar Mace, Martial Wand, Holy Phial, O-Hat or Walahra Turban, Chivalrous Chain, 2 x Coral Earring or 2 x Dodge Earrings, Revenend Mail / Blessed Briault / Noble's Tunic / Errant Houpeland depending on the need, Blessed Mitts, Rajas Ring and Uthulams Ring, Red Cape +1, Swift Belt or potent belt, Blessed Slacks, Blessed Boots

That's some of my melee gear for my whm. Haste build, Mind / Str build (Hexa Strike), Mind / Int build (Black Halo), Accuracy / Attack build kinda mixed throughout, but also Cure +20%, undead killer, swap in gear for my buffs (cleric's pantaloons + blessed briault), and with my MP gear on I still had 900 MP with /nin.

 

[iaredrew]

If you have a PL, the whm shouldn't be in the party at dunes level. Get a job that does ANY damage. You can learn to melee to well-round yourself in a skill-up party where that is the party's goal. When the goal is the most exp possible in said amount of time, having a whm melee is never the correct answer.

Ever.

In response to setups needing to be changed out for another DD with the PL. The PL in this instance was touch and go. As in, they weren't there at the start, then decided to pop by and then leave again 15-20 min later.

So yes, obviously if the PL was there for the whole party you would get more DD.

I hate when all I have to do to discuss a topic is click back 2-3 pages and quote myself...

 

[jamal]

So don't melee then. Don't accept a powerlevel. Play the fundamentals of the job. I read your comments, doesn't mean I'll ever agree with them.

 

[iaredrew]

So don't melee then. Don't accept a powerlevel. Play the fundamentals of the job. I read your comments, doesn't mean I'll ever agree with them.

Do you even read what you type? There was nothing to agree with lol. You said a whm doesn't need to be in a party if a PL is there, which would imply that you think everyone in the party had clairvoyance of some form and could predict that a higher lvl mage friend would get bored and come PL.

Now you're suggesting that when the fundamentals of the job can't be achieved that it's better to send away help or become one with the trees and rocks.

 

[jamal]

Now you're suggesting that when the fundamentals of the job can't be achieved that it's better to send away help

Not the trees and rocks, just this. This isn't the first time I've said it either.

 

[Courtney]

I hate when all I have to do to discuss a topic is click back 2-3 pages and quote myself...

I don't even know why you want to discuss the mechanics of the game in situations where the mechanics of the game don't count. Powerlevelled parties are in the same class of activity as farming Crawlers in East Sarta as a L75 and trying to discuss whether to use sword or dagger. It doesn't matter...

 

[Mistra]

I don't even know why this is a topic or how it lead to swords and sll the high lvl clubs.

Honestly, I've no idea why it's a topic either. Courtney summed it up and ended the thread right off the get-go.

 

[Ariadne]

either way, my detractment from the original topic is over - at low-low levels i don't see anything wrong with a white mage, a red mage, a scholar, or black mages wailing on the mobs, especially when a powerleveler is on hand.

as for crabs using stoneskin and using it faster and more often, that's going to be an annoyance no matter how you slice it. if anything, I'd say that during those stoneskins I'd rather have as many people in the party wailing on the mob in an effort to break that stoneskin faster.

I'll agree here lol, and mmm nothing like watching a few people go into elitest rant mode over a video game lulz. And no I don't mean any offense to those posting in a neutral fashion or just giving opinions. I've never had issues with RDMs meleeing in my parties if, as Sandria stated, they are doing the rest of their job efficiently. At lower levels, there should be no issue with a WHM meleeing, provided a PL is present. And as it was stated this PL came in randomly and left just the same, meaning it was "WHM is healing...oh look we have a PL, WHM melee since you aren't doing anything...oh PL is leaving, ok back line again~", so what is the major issue with that again? And seriously, if people are that uptight at this low level that a diamond could be turned into coal up their ass in two weeks, they really need to set down the game and take a break cuz it's gone too far. Also :x crabs will spam whatever the fuck they want with or without the WHMs help.

 

[Bladewind]

Well, the problem with this is the way they designed Campaign. It is much easier to get exp through attacking then it is through healing. People's attitude when they go to Campaign is to get as much exp as possible, not stand there keeping people alive so that you actually win Campaign.

Look at exp parties. You don't do something you know will negatively affect your exp gain.

Its more a flaw in design then anything. If SE increased the exp cap/exp gain for healing in Campaign for mages, and decreased the exp cap/exp gain for meleeing for WHM's, you'd see more people actually doing their job. That's why they added those healer NPC's. To keep people alive, and to raise dead people, as SE intentionally designed Raise to give a minimum amount of exp so that mages could focus on doing other things.

isn't that how campaign was origionally, then they altered it to prevent people swap in and out of HP+\- gear and cure bombing them selves next to the allied tag guy. unfortunatly instead of participating in campaign now those same people just sing brd songs to themselves.

 

[Lavi]

Campaign caps experience for certain actions from what I can tell. From my experience, most actions net you experience/AN and you can max out from either that particular action or that particular category rather quickly if it's not melee. For instance, if I was to spam the same BRD song, I would get very little exp/AN, but if I was to rotate casting many different songs, I would cap out much higher, but still relatively low compared to the melee threshold. If I was to go WHM, the same thing applies, healing magic will only get me so much exp; however, using enfeebles and enhancing magic seem to be different categories so those too can get me extra exp/AN. Again, without actually meleeing though I would get pretty low exp/AN.

From what I could gather overall the quickest method, I need to heal, enhance, melee and cure (not sure if raise is considered healing yet) to get the max amount; however, I seem to hit a stone wall that I can never surpass which leads me to believe, I could just auto attack and afk for 5 mins, come back and get the max exp/AN without any effort. To be honest, if I am looking for max exp/AN for rankups, I go NIN since it attacks so rapidly and I can enfeeble to survive the best. However, if you're low level, sub BRD is ultimately the only way to get decent exp because of the way it's setup. Either, you miss too much and/or hit for 0's or you go sub mage and spam cures which is time consuming and requires a lot of resting and moving around. /BRD just provides the easiest alternative to getting exp when most low levels have such difficulty finding an exp party. I'm sure if the option was available to most of them to melee, they would, I know I would.

 

[Jeska]

This really happened to me once, got an invite as lv 12 Whm to go to dunes, I start heading there, midway through La Thiene I get the leader saying to me via tell they decided to take a lv 12 War with no sub instead, thing is he came with a PL.

Yes it sucked but the bitter truth is with a PL they get exp faster and can all go full out on mobs with no waiting on mp and even a War with no sub can contribute more meleewise than a Whm with a club.

At higher levels I have endured a PL for the sake of a quiet life in party, it doesnt stop me trying to do my job to the best of my abilites though, a PL cannot Erase or cast Bar spells to protect the team. My point being a Whm at any level should be focused on their job not some desire to go out and bash things with their clubs.

Save that fun for Campaign or Besieged there its a pastime, in an exp party though stick to your job, if you want to melee go level a melee job.

 

[Phraust]

Welp. I can tell you as somewhat of an expert. An A+ decked out melee Whm versus a same class of thief, the thief does almost 2x the damage, and that's not on EXP mobs, not EP's per se either.

Is it worth it? Yes
Is it fun? Yes
Would it be viable in a merit pt? If it was a Brd, Cor and 4 Whms sure.

What's the best settup?

Clubs:
1) Perdu/Antares. Speed wiht standard WHM gear, you swing faster than a decked out thief.
2) Morgenstern/Perdu. Awesom combo, Morgenstern is really slow and the 6% crit only affects the first hit on WS.
3) Perdu/Templar. Good combo added bonus of cure potency.

Builds:

Haste:
Turbo turban
Prudence Torque or Peacock Charm
Brutal Earring
Suppanomimi

Goliard Sao or Noble's Tunic, refresh is hard to pass up, even for 4% haste.
Blessed Mitts
Rajas Ring
Sniper Ring of some sort.

Altruistic Cape, or Boxer's mantle. Honestly see no diff in evade rate.
Swift belt
Blessed Trousers
Blessed pumps

WS
Marduk Tiara
Prudence Torque or Peacock Charm
Merman's Earring (Brutal's high risk of deminished returns on a 6 hit)
Merman's Earring

Tabin Jupon +1
Healer's Mitts +1
Aqua Ring
Aqua Ring

Prism Cape
Potent Belt
Blessed Trousers
Marduk Crackows

Merits:
Club 8/8
Divine 8/8
Enfeeb 8/8
Crit 4/4
Spell Interupt 4/4

One thing Whm does get over a lot of the melee is a shit tone of Haste gear, and access to thier own Haste spell. Turban, Belt, Body, Gloves, Pants, and Feet, all NQ get you 23, get any 2 HQ and you're capped. add on Haste, and you get a 40% delay in attack rounds, that's solo. From a base including the DW bonus thats a 66% increase in attacks. suddenly that 10.83/8.57 DPS club combo starts looking a little better. Throw in some really decent 298 skill enfeebles, stoneskin, flash, cures, and you got a decent settup for Whm.

I personally always wanted to try the melee Whm thing out in an actual parsed 'for real' merit pt, but the person that's good at it, and owns the above described character(sans Goliard Sao and some enfeeble gear) knows better than to waste a merit slot like that.

Honestly you gotta just play it smart. If you like that playstyle set up a group to do it. But a Melee Whm to level up is a really hard thing. There's a lot gaps between damaging clubs as you progress those gaps are less frequent, but the clubs you get are either really slow or really low damage, either way, a bad thing. In short I don't reccomend it, it willl make you a little loopy in the end. Enjoy your melee on the side, don't ruin it by making it the theme of the job.

 

[Reya]

o_o I learned the hard way not to put my saved up merit points into merits when drunk T_T

I woke up the next morning thinking where are all the merits I saved up? I looked under all my categories and apparently in my intoxicated state, I put all my merits into club!