its official, rng was nerfed.

[Strid]

Whiney ass cheapos FTW.

Not everything is related to "whiney" people. I highly doubt that S-E was buried under complaints about ninjas not losing hate when they lost their shadows. S-E just tries to keep the balance in the game as best as they can (and you would have to be some kind of superhero to find a way to balance the game that didn't piss SOMEBODY off). They saw what they thought was an imbalance and this was their solution to fix it.

On a more interesting note, has anyone noticed the lack of crying from the ninjas? I checked Allakhazam's ninja forums and most of them said that by just putting a little more effort into hate control that they can still control hate just fine. Maybe the rngs need to quit complaining and get to work on figuring out how to "counter" the "nerf".

As for the Nin part I agree. I was able to own some BC60's np at all keeping hate off a WHM and BLM (3man). It wasn't even worth implementing imo. As for your RNG comment, how would you counter doing WAY less DMG? Please enlighten me. We use to be able to hit around 150-200 a pop, SS for about 2k+ more than once now we are lucky to get in one SS and our single shots (even from "the perfect range") are weaker. Also, it wasn't a "nerf" it was a WTFPWNT :twisted:

 

[Marajade]

"the problem lies in the WS. RNG can no longer Open a SC with a thief, because we either cant turn it, or we stand back to turn it, and it runs all over the place."

SAM->RNG->THF

Example

Tachi Gekko -> Arching Arrow, Empirical Arrow, Heavy Shot, Detonator (Fusion) -> Shark Bite (Light)

3 way SC, 1.5X L3 Light dmg multiplier possible on Shark Bite

Just need to be creative. Problem for RNG becomes solution for SAM.

but then comes party structure.

You only have 2 slots left (after you add the tank)

If you have a PLD, you ned a WHM, and some sort of Refresh to avoid downtime. So you dont have anything to bust, and have only two regular DD.

If its a NIN, heavy shot will still pull hate 60% of the time, so you're still in the position of messing up the SATA.

 

[hellstorm]

so does this nerf effect bow and markmanship alike do you have to stan closer for crossbow then you do guns :?: how far back does a rng have to be

 

[Marajade]

ive found for Marksmanship you need to stand just outside AoE limit range for Optimal regular attacks. But that places me outside of Ranged WS range, so i have to move in to fire off a Slug Shot, reduceing the damage.

 

[Mokk]

realism in combat ..... OH NOEZ!!!!!!

personally i think all jobs should have effective ranges for their attacks.. i mean if you don't have room to get a good stab in with a polearm hwo could it be effective? If you don't have a nice ammount of room for a Gaxe swing, how could it be as effective? sure knives, h2h, and some swords would have the close up in your face advantage. Ask yourself this much before going apeshit about how everyone else is jealous of rngs tho, is realism such a bad thing or does it add an extra element to gameplay? Personally i'ma wait and see what trip thinks about it as he is playing rng and might reconsider my never having a want to play it as i might enjoy a job that has somewhat realistic properties to it's dmg output now..

 

[etchdog2000]

the problem lies in the WS. RNG can no longer Open a SC with a thief, because we either cant turn it, or we stand back to turn it, and it runs all over the place.

Every other melee has to deal with this also. Im sure creative rangers out there will be able to deal with this in some way. I still have faith that the creative rangers out there will still be dealing more dmg then other melee(just like they were before, just not as much). The way I look at it is now if you want to open for a thf ... /war. Now not being a rng myself I cant say that this would for sure work, but that sounds like a very viable solution now. Stand back get your maximum dmg SS or SW then move up and voke.

This is if you really cant turn the mob anymore. If you are still able to turn the mob then yes you will just have to deal gimped dmg on WS and stand close to the mob.

I dont know if this will work but to me it sounds like Rng's will just need to get a little more creative.

 

[alanon]

Can someone explain the Thf trait assasin for me? I thought it allowed for a Thf to do a SaTa like thing onto the tank without having to have the mob turned or some such thing. Im probably wrong, so can someone explain it to me?

 

[Marajade]

it allows TA to work, but SA still needs to be behind the mob.

And subbing War for Voke to turn it? we'll get eaten in 2-3 hits without shadows.

 

[Sethala]

Here's an idea: have the RNG close the SC instead of the THF. Viper Bite/Dancing Edge>Sidewinder/Slug Shot gives Detonation, for a wind MB. If you're high enough to do Light, it's completely reversible.

This does mean that THFs will have to be a little tricky when opening the SC. Either have the THF use TA+DE with Assassin, or use SATA, Hide, then WS. Or, have the RNG pull hate somehow without WSing, THF use SATA+WS, then RNG move into optimal range for WS and fire it.

 

[etchdog2000]

When in the middle of a SC the mob shouldn't hit you that much or at all if the SC goes off as planned. I would say 50% of the time that I do the exact same thing I mentioned I wont get hit at all. But yes that was basically why I questioned whether that would work or not. If you say they cant withstand 1-2 hits then Ok this wont work.

Bigdadddy

 

[alanon]

And subbing War for Voke to turn it? we'll get eaten in 2-3 hits without shadows.

Welcome to the world of Blm.

 

[Rappa]

And subbing War for Voke to turn it? we'll get eaten in 2-3 hits without shadows.

Welcome to the world of Blm.

Welcome to the world of Blms who don't keep up Blink and/or Stoneskin, you mean?

As for your RNG comment, how would you counter doing WAY less DMG? Please enlighten me.

Hell if I know, I'm not a RNG. :lol:

 

[alanon]

And subbing War for Voke to turn it? we'll get eaten in 2-3 hits without shadows.

Welcome to the world of Blm.

Welcome to the world of Blms who don't keep up Blink and/or Stoneskin, you mean?

Most Blms dont. Most good Blms know how to walk the hate line, Rngs are going to have to learn it now too.

 

[Sneakypants]

Can someone explain the Thf trait assasin for me? I thought it allowed for a Thf to do a SaTa like thing onto the tank without having to have the mob turned or some such thing. Im probably wrong, so can someone explain it to me?

Trick Attack becomes a guaranteed hit, and it also becomes a critical hit.
Without getting into damage modifiers or the dynamics of splitting SA and TA, and gear changes, etc., it makes Trick Attack function like Sneak Attack. So long as you follow the rule that the tank (or anyone else you want to transfer hate to :twisted: ) is between you and the MOB, you'll have a guaranteed crit.

You can still stack Sneak Attack if desired, and you have more flexibility with stacking your WS, and timing your cooldowns.

 

[Strid]

realism in combat ..... OH NOEZ!!!!!!

personally i think all jobs should have effective ranges for their attacks.. i mean if you don't have room to get a good stab in with a polearm hwo could it be effective? If you don't have a nice ammount of room for a Gaxe swing, how could it be as effective? sure knives, h2h, and some swords would have the close up in your face advantage. Ask yourself this much before going apeshit about how everyone else is jealous of rngs tho, is realism such a bad thing or does it add an extra element to gameplay? Personally i'ma wait and see what trip thinks about it as he is playing rng and might reconsider my never having a want to play it as i might enjoy a job that has somewhat realistic properties to it's dmg output now..

Nothing wrong with moving us back that's all well and fine but why nerf our DMG GREATLY? That's the problem not the range. We dont even come close to the DMG we once got even at the "optimal range". I think you guys are skipping over this and thinking we are bitching about the RNG purely and that isn't the case.

Rappa: Lucky You >.> I wish I had lvled a DRK or WAR now instead.

 

[asiamise]

Poop,

I took it to lvl 52 due to boredom and lack of pt's on my SAM (and because I have an amazing LS static to pt with on it) only to have the things I enjoyed about the job taken away from me

My sympathies to those who have RNG as main. This truly sucks.

 

[Taurothar]

I really hate how nobody has given this update a chance. Give it a month, after that you can bitch about the changes. Here's an idea, TRY SOMETHING NEW, you guys are so afraid of change that it's almost to the point that you all need static setups that do the exact same thing day after day, cookie cutter parties, monotonous skillchains, and if that's taken away, you'll cry and cry till you have your way. I once again pose my challenge, show me one serious post older than this update info that RNG are overpowered. If you can do that, you can blame the whiners, but comming out and saying that the community whined is just a bold faced LIE. SE did research based on the Census and adjusted accordingly.

 

[Grieve]

Ok, i see that some people have missed the point, mostly Non-rangers who have never shot a bow. Let me give you some numbers here.

Pre-update, ranged attk with a shigeto +1 from any range, iron arrows, bunny in west ronfaure: 366 damage. always. that was determined to be the maximum damage for that bow/arrow combination. Sidewinder on those same bunnies, 2322, again always, never varied unless str or agil was added into equip. Max damage acievable on that mob with that weapon combo.

Any other job @75 can do a test like that, mnk, drk, whatever. go ahead and give it a go, its interesting and you can learn alot about the equations that way.

Now heres another test, post patch:

Lufaise Meadows, Bugard, Shigeto Bow+1 and Iron arrows, pre-patch had been an estimated (from memory) constant 260ish, always for same numbers, just couldnt remember exactly. Meaning LVL was high enough over that mob to always do Consistent Maximum damage allowable by weapon. Results?
1st shot: 190, then shadowbind. attempting to find optimum range: 2nd shot: 161, nope, not closer, so we back up... 3rd shot: 200, getting closer.... 4th shot: 242, and that was the optimal range. fired 2 more shots from that distance, both for same damage, then moved in for a point blank test: Point Blank: 160........... 242....vs 160...on a mob that a 75 anything will hit for max damage everytime......

Btw, Optimal range for a shigeto +1 is JUST BARELY inside WS range. One step back and youd get the "readies sidewinder.... the bugard is too far away" message. Obow is half that distance. So that would put a bow ranger in xppt basically in the other room, or in the hall..... say if your camping in secret room in crawlers, and camp is at the entrance, rng would be at the door......

Now the point i am making, that people seem not to understand, and that Syn made that everyone seems to have shrugged off, is that this is universal. Meaning across ALL mob rates. Even a bunny in wron. Even farming orcs in davoi. Point Blank (which is impossible to avoid solo) you see as much as a 50 fucking percent damage drop, ON TOO WEAKS. Oh and the Weapon skills....... its even better...

Sidewinder @ optimal range 2462, variable by 10 pts or so.
Sidewinder @ point blank 1340 variable by none at all......
On orcish beastriders (you know, the lvl 40 ones?) in davoi. 1100 damage lost. On a too weak mob. NO Other Job suffers from that, no mnk no drk no war alive will suffer a 50% damage reduction of ANY kind based on ANY reason on a too weak mob.

THAT is why the rangers are pissed. If YOU arent, You should be. Why?
Cause youre next.

Here are some comparable nerfs we may see coming down the pike, all of these are Identical in spirit and purpose to the rng nerf:

Blm: the way elemental spell damage is calculated has been changed. the terrain the caster is standing on is now factored in, suffering a 25% damage reduction if casting an earth based spell while not standing on rock or dirt, and so on.

Nin: All of a ninjas stats (accy. eva. attk. attributes) now suffer a 25% penalty when in sunlight or other well lit area. this penalty does not apply at nightime or underground/inside. Additionally, magic attk bonus no longer effects Ninjutsu.

Pld: a pld now suffers 25% greater damage when Autoattacking a mob. this penalty does not apply when disengaged.

Rdm: All spells suffer a 25% reduction in effectiveness while autoattacking an enemy.

Mnk: Haste (both from the spell or from +haste equip) no longer effects the delay of hand-to-hand attacks

All mellee: Accuracy of multihit weaponskills has been greatly reduced in areas of low visibility (underground, at night, etc).

I could go on for days. But ill just say this then stop:

A dark knight, at lvl 75 can get i believe a scythe with total damage of 98. a warrior can get a greataxe with total damage of 95. A ranger using a Hellfire+1 and Silver Bullets has a total damage of 122. But now, Because SE felt like pulling a leprechaun out of their ass, those numbers mean jack shit, and the 122 is going to be outdamaged by the 95. So far, Rampage has been reported to outdamage slug shot from point blank on aura statues....... thats a ONE HANDED AXE (maximum damage with best axe: 52) beating a 122 total combo. SE has ignored their own equations.

I have more to say but this is way too friggin long already, sorry.

 

[Taurothar]

Grieve, you're an idiot when it comes to other jobs. Those nerfs you said could happen, don't make ANY sense at all. This supposed "nerf" that SE gave the ranged attacks, actually DOES make sense. Why would a PLD be less defensive because it's also attacking a mob? That's how fighting works, attacking back and forth and blocking damage... Why would shooting a bow from 5 feet increase its damage when gravity and other factors make an arrow travel FASTER if shot from a distance? I think that a one handed axe would physically hurt a hell of a lot more than an arrow. Do the math on this one, getting hit in one arm with an axe full swing from a VERY strong person, and getting hit in the other with an arrow shot from 5 feet away. The arrow would do a little damage, pierce the skin and flesh. The axe would probably remove the arm entirely. Your logic is fucked up in the ideas you presented. SE is putting logic into a game, which is expected since the evolution of formulas and such is fast approaching artificial intelligence.

 

[alanon]

So what you are telling me is that now you only do 1200 on a WS when farming? Oh boo-hoo. Your 50% reduction still allows for more damge that most others at 100%. Seriously, I do sympathize with most Rngs (personally I thinks Thfs may actually be getting screwed more), but if this has been your best argument, I feel my sympathy erroding.

Just be glad that they didn't make the nerf so that when you are hit, that your aim is interupted.