Next update on EXP

*sigh* there is always someone who is unhappy...

Firestreak, I really dont see why you are so against this change. Unlike you, not all of us have time to take 1 job to 75, another 2 close to it, and 1 on the way. I started in Dec of 2003 and time has always been a problem, and till this day I am only still a 58 PLD, and a 40 DRG. As much as leveling may seem like an easy task to you Firestreak, maybe you should try leveling something that ISNT one of the most highly-demanded classes in the game. Why not try ie. DRG? DRK? See how much harder it is to level up, and how much harder it is to find one more highly demanded class.

I really dont have anything to say to you except "suck it up and move on." When they nerfed TP ages ago, that is what half the players in FFXI told us melee. DRGs got hit the worst largely because of Pentathrust, although it isnt the be all and end all of DRG. DRG needs serious buffing and yet I dont even see 1/100000000th of the support for DRG as I do people supporting the "cancelling" of this upcoming EXP patch. Get selfish much?

I just find it funny that Level 75's are so against the fact that people can level up faster now. All I can say is, it's no ones fault really that you guys had so much excess time to actually get to 75 so many times. Changes are bound to happen and FFXI is still not yet a "complete game." Do you guys remember a lot of the changes Shia mentioned that happened soon after the NA release? No one expected a TP nerf 2 years after the game was released in Japan but it did happen. One side is always going to feel "shafted". I'm sure a lot of the JPs feel "unhappy" that they never had the chance to accumulate Merit points all those times they were out doing different quests etc.

I mean, anyone could complain about anything. Someone could complain that they feel cheated that Scorpion Harness dropped 7 million gil in price because Venomous Claw dropped more. So should we all lock outselves in our mog houses, not level, not buy anything because an update can all of a sudden put us in a percieved "disadvantaged situation?"

Do you guys not want other people to experience end game content? I mean, I disagree with a lot of you guys on your comments that "75 is not something that everyone was supposed to reach." So does that mean I cant experience the whole game just because I dont have the time? I dont think that is fair. I think everyone who pays the game is entitled to experience end game content and that it shouldnt be restricted only to those who dont do anything but play games 24/7. Or is it perhaps that the current 75s are afraid that even more competition will ruin them? I dont know about you guys, but you guys are always bitching about how JP HNMLS dominate the HNM scene and yet you guys are STILL causing shit and trying to kill each other. Then you have the occasional fucktard who comes and flames a fellow NA HNMLS for not healing him when he aggros another mob. Is this the quality of HNMLS that QUETZ can offer?

Firestreak, in the past you have had good points but honestly, I think you overdid it this time, because frankly I see no reason to justify your die-hard opposition of this change. I'm sorry if you feel that you should get compensation for having so much free time to get almost 3 jobs to 75, but honestly, life isnt fair.


In addition, when was the patch to make Promyvion easier? I did it in November and I found it pretty easy already. I think I only ever died once in the BC. O_o I think you guys just have crappy parties? Dunno...

PS: This post has no coherence at all as i had various ideas popping in and out. Its 3:30am here. So sorry....
 
Ok Xerius, my response to your post is simply this. You have to forget the fact that some people have more time than others to level. Because when setting a max level, this is irrelevant. If no one at all had more than 5 hours a week to play FF, and no one was higher than level 60, and I made the argument, as a fellow level 60, "I want a game where the max level iis nearly unreachable, so until I quit I can keep leveling playing my character..." You would put some stock into that, seeing as there's no one to be jealous of, as no one has more time than you to play, and there's no end game content that others are enjoying(yeah, right) that you haven't.
When I played Asheron's Call, the maximum level was 127. It was so hard, even as a hard core powerleveler than I am, I reached only level 80 in two years. But you know what? But you know what? So many quests to do for 60+ that I never felt like I was really missing out. And no one made max level until 127, and when you saw a 127 you respected someone for a huge investment. (unlike FF where you shun them like some people and cal them losers out of jealously). This game is unfortunately driven by jealousy.
In all truthfullness, while harder than WoW, FF does not take a particulary long time to reach max level compared to other MMORPGs. They are, usually, supposed to take a long time. And You act as if you have certain rights... well.. you have the right to try your best to reach max level. but that doesn't mean you should get it until you put all the time in to exp.
By lowering the time to hit 75, all you're doing is making the whole thing easier. And as 75 becomes easier, it means less. As it means less, people will set highere goals. Unlike Japanese L:inkshells, none of the NA linkshells require more than a single job to 75. But wait. Give us some time with this new system, and you guys with less time are only going to find yourself more shut ut. When we require everyone has a BLM 75, and 2 other jobs so that we can maximuze efficiency like ALL the Japanese LS do. Notice now how many high levels are having trouble finding shells? And notice how those people with less time often cite that their job to 75 is their last, and they're going to quit after? You won't be able to run a shell with solely the "new gjuard" as you all put it, with people who are only intending to level one job out of real life conflicts then experience the end game and quit after. Thsi change is bad for you as well I think, as I know a lot of us "old guard" people have been talking about upping the requirements to 2 jobs at 70+ based on the abundance of people like me out there. So we'll see I guess...
 
Okay,

I realize that your point is valid. Many MMOPRGS DO require a lot of time to reach end game. But at the same time, a lot of these MMORPGs have a lot more content for the mid levels than FFXI. You said Asheron's Call had an abundance of quests for you to do right?

But what about FFXI? Between 1-65, there are RANK missions, Zilart Missions, BCNMs, CoP, and cant think of anything else at the moment. But then... we all know that CoP is far from being something for "lower levels" to experience, as it requires a high amount of coordination and experience in order to past, (at least promyvion when I did it in November.) Missions, okay Rank Mission frankly are so easy, you could get from Rank 1-5 in a matter of hours, WITHOUT help. Then 6 onwards if you have the proper alliance and party members, you can get relatively fast as well. Zilart missions are largely for HIGHER levels as well. BCNMs, you cant really count these as "quests" as it is mainly the same thing over and over. Oh and the normal quests in the game, yeah we all know how "great and absorbing" those are.... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I'm not sure if you see what I'm trying to get at Fire, but it's jus that even a lot of the main game content are aimed towards the more experienced/higher level player. CoP, besides the first 2 chapters, which are level 30 and 40 cap, it starts getting into the 50s soon after. (I'm not 100% accurate on this info.) Okay, I'm only 58 but I consider myself relatively experienced in this game, but you see, I can only get so much of CoP done.

Furthermore, the main story lines of the game, each country's story, Zilart Story, Dynamis "story", only truly unravel at the high levels of the game. Sure many people can argue "since when did the storyline REALLY matter." But a lot of the people I know say that the storyline of the game really picks up AFTER Rank 6 and in the Zilart Missions. Can you really argue now that the game isnt made for people to reach the higher levels of the game? I mean some games like WoW, I understand that while everyone can reach the higher levels, it really has nothing to do with storyline at all.

Regarding your point about how everyone being able to get to 75 earlier makes it more of a disadvantage for those with less time. Thats an invalid point and I would like to point that out because WITHOUT the patch, we would never even get to 75 and so end game content is TOTALLY out of reach. At least with the new EXP system sure some LS will set up guidelines of having 2+ job at 75, but not EVERYONE will have 2+ job RIGHT when the patch comes out so that gives people time to still get into high level LS. Once people DO start getting 2+ job, a lot of the people will already have a LS and I doubt if you know the leader well, they will kick you out. Friends > Level. Most of the time at least. Therefore according to your theory, the new exp system STILL gives people who lack time a much higher chance of seeing end game content.

I'm not saying that everyone should be able to get from 1-75 in 1-2 months playing only an hour a day. That would be unreasonable. But I think someone who lacks time but plays 1-2 hours 3-4 times a week or maybe less, should honestly have every right to reach 75 after a whole year or more.
 
People right now are already feeling the hurt, with a single 75 job of not being able to find a HNM LS unless their job is in demand. Like you, a paladin for example. You, in all brutal honesty, have no chance in hell. Most LS now have tons of Paladins. More than they need. For the most part, all that's really getting in now is a few high demand jobs. The rest of the people are at this moment working on their next job.

Now... as for game content. Zilart is for higher levels, yes. And as well is the rank missions. CoP you can beat at level 50. There's no reason you can't with the gil and skill. You can get very far even at level 40. As for the last few rank missions and the zilart missions... you'll reach them eventually. They aren't going away.
Should there be more content? There's hundreds of quests. Have you done them all? They just added ENMs, some have level 40 and 50 level caps... you tried any? They seem to be focused lately on added content for all levels. High levels just have a few things only we can do, and this is very standard for a game. Otherwise there's no motivation to put the time in to level. And if there's no attachment to your character as of the time put in, you are more likely to quit. That's how it works.

As Liefe said, they should be added more game content. They need more quests that are worth doing. And stuff that isn't so insanely hard in my opinion. I think they should make stuff without level caps that level 40s can beat. Maybe focus on putting good plot into the basic quests. But just because there's some end game content, does not mean they should shoot you to it.

As for the last comment. Honestly, if people can make level 75 in 3 months now... in a year you can do it. Like Algarius said.. he was getting a level a day 70-75. If you know what you're doing, have proper equipment and are in a group with the same... you'll level fast. The fact is it's taking you so long because you're getting terrible parties probably. And terrible parties getting no where is not a bad thing. It keeps thieves in lizard gear at 50+ from reaching all that endgame content they don't deserve to see.

I'll also point out, if you can only log on 2 nights a week, no chance of getting into a God shell. Even if you were lucky enough to have both days when they were active, they are gonna require at least 3 most likely. And you wouldn't be able to do ANYTHING except do gods. NO missions, quests, leveling other jobs, farming. Believe me, friends or not, if you are a low demand job and you are skipping you are out.
 
I just remembered that they made it easier for 60+ people a few months ago.
how?
they made that It mobs cap on 250 exp per fight, beside the 200. i mean a 20% easier, and i think that they will not gift 20% this time
come on!
 
Sdävtaker said:
I just remembered that they made it easier for 60+ people a few months ago.
how?
they made that It mobs cap on 250 exp per fight, beside the 200. i mean a 20% easier, and i think that they will not gift 20% this time
come on!
Click to expand...

You have obviously never tried a 250 xp mob at 60+. Try it with a normal party, then try to chain it, its just not going to happen. (except gob alastors :) )
 
Fire you should have quit while you were ahead.

Why is lvl 75 such a big thing? Why does that number make you better than any other player, make you 'worth' more than any other player? Look in the mirror buddy you sound just a bit egotistical.

75 is an accomplishment of time. Nothing more. Genkai is in place to weed out the morons, level up time has nothing to do with it. I know many lvl 75 player who I think are absolute using skilless scumbags. I judge a person on their behavior not a number next to their name. The last time i respected someone for being high level was probably the JP in full AF on the selbina ferry when I was lvl 15.

People can make 75 in 3 months now. How can you compare difficulty to Asheron's Call if it is so easy? Does that mean Asheron's Call is worth more as a game since it is harder to max out and stuff?

By your logic Fire, I as a lvl 72 DRK am worth a lot more than any of your jobs at 75 since it is so much harder and takes so much more time to level. :roll:
 
No, Firestreak, I probably won't make it to 75, regardless of this patch.

Not because I'm a dumbass, but because I don't have the time. And more than 75% of the time that I do spend playing this game, I don't spend leveling.

That's my whole point.

Making it to 75 is not everyone who play's this game's goal.

You're simply making it out to seem like you think that people who don't make it to 75 aren't worth a damn.

You're missing a lot of the points that everyone is making just to have yourself save face at this point in the thread. I can see you missed a lot of mine with the last one I made.

Enjoy it at the top there, buddy. Sometimes it gets awfully lonely.
 
You guys all have really good points. You're just forgetting 1 thing.

You're ARGUING AGAINST WHAT I NEVER SAID.

I never said once you are worth more as a player. I said there is a value to leveling a job to 75. Your character gains a worth as you invest time into it. I never said you're worth less as a player. Never ONCE.
You guys are really getting stupid here. I need a certain amount of intelligence for you to have to argue with you Panda.

And Mistaya, if you believe 72 DRK is worth more than 75 blm and 73 PLD combined, you would be right in your assumption. I personally disagree, but I would say it's an important fact that you can't level up as one job and switch your job and have that be high level two. Many would sure love to level BRD up and switch the levels onto THF I bet.

So please, stop arguing against what I'm not saying, because it's just annoying.
 
Firestreak said:
Your character gains a worth as you invest time into it.
Click to expand...

Is XP the only 'worth?' I have mules with basically no XP under their belt that have 90+ craft skills. Are they 'worthless' because they never leave town?

I just want to know what accomplishments are of value to you. To me, when I got my Lu Shang, I didn't have a job over 37. I'm fairly sure there are more level 70+s out there than Lu Shang owners (post-AFK fishing days, anyway). That's an accomplishment to me. When I can buy a 4 or 5 million gil item on the AH, that's an accomplishment to me. When I rank up my crafting, that's an accomplishment for me. And when I hit 75, that'll be an accomplishment too.
 
No exp is not the only worth. But it's part of the value. As is gil, skills and tradeskills. Would you feel good about your investment with your 90+ craft mules if suddenly square made it easier to level up crafts?
 
Firestreak said:
No exp is not the only worth. But it's part of the value. As is gil, skills and tradeskills. Would you feel good about your investment with your 90+ craft mules if suddenly square made it easier to level up crafts?
Click to expand...

Yeah, because I got to make my gil with the craft before everyone got to where I am. Plus, the longer you are at a certain level (be it crafting, XP, whatever) gives you better knowledge of how to utilize that level to the best possible profit and accomplishment margins. Check Alla and see how many 80, 90+ crafters are posting on how to make gil because they blew 10-20+ million gil to powercraft and have no idea how to synth for profit.
 
I'm going ot call you out on this. You can't possibly not feel like those accomplishments are more meaningful because of the difficulty. What of your lu shang rod if suddenly they cut down the required fish by a huge amount? What if there were tommorrow twice as many crafters your level lowering the profit margin on everything you make. Knowledge is tremendous but you need to back it with resources.
 
Firestreak said:
I'm going ot call you out on this. You can't possibly not feel like those accomplishments are more meaningful because of the difficulty. What of your lu shang rod if suddenly they cut down the required fish by a huge amount? What if there were tommorrow twice as many crafters your level lowering the profit margin on everything you make. Knowledge is tremendous but you need to back it with resources.
Click to expand...

When it comes to the Lu, I got enough crap from 'real' fishers saying I got mine the easy way by fishing and repairing rusties in Rabao.

You keep speaking in hyperbole. These examples of yours make no sense, because you're comparing what is being predicted as a 10% reduction in the XP tables as if any kind of reduction is going to immediately flood the server with 75's.

As for crafting, I'm already in a crowded market (cooking) and in a market where 90% of your materials are either from NPCs or craftable yourself knowledge is far better than resources. There's always SOMETHING that's not being produced and you just exploit that market for a day or 2 and move on. Not to mention there are more than a few recipes that I can synth and NPC for profit. It's not a lot, but even if everyone on the server gets 100 in Cooking I have an out for profit.

Plus, not every cook has high level fishing to get better profit margins on Sushi. Not to mention that thanks to the nature of cooking there will always be a demand. Sushi sells all day every day, and nobody undercuts because they know it just as well as I do. Sure, some moron will throw up Squid at 16k instead of 17 but within 3 hours it's back up to the normal price.
 
But I'm not arguing the fact you're way ahead with knowledge. I partied once iht a level 67 RDM who admittedly just bought his account. I didn't realize it of course til I got to camp. Well sufficive to say, we needed a good RDM to sleep link and we all wiped. Moral of the story? Power without knowledge is pretty pointless. But it doesn't mean people are going to exp parties just to learn how to play their job better. I knew BLM pretty damn well by level 40. I knew how to play it and better than I've seen some play it at 70... but level 40-75 wasn't a waste of time was it? I'm sure you're more knowlwedgeable than any crafter who was just sprung into level 90+, but does that mean you could have made as much money at level 40? Don't you feel deserving of reward for your investment?

Just on a side note: Personally I think crafting is far more ridiculous than exp in terms of how hard it is to max out.
 
Firestreak said:
You guys all have really good points. You're just forgetting 1 thing.

You're ARGUING AGAINST WHAT I NEVER SAID.

I never said once you are worth more as a player. I said there is a value to leveling a job to 75. Your character gains a worth as you invest time into it. I never said you're worth less as a player. Never ONCE.
You guys are really getting stupid here. I need a certain amount of intelligence for you to have to argue with you Panda.
Click to expand...


So new 75ers aren't worth less as players, but "it" is worth less.

Your quote: "Now it takes less effort to reach 75, so you can do it easier, but it balances out because it's worth less."

I'm not trying to put words in anyone's mouth by showing this quote versus you saying that people argue against things you never said. You did say this, and a number of other things that could very easily be taken the "wrong" way. But without clarification, it would be impossible to tell exactly what you meant by this or some other statements you made.

Your defense is that you're not saying people are worth less as players, yet many statements made including the one above make it seem like you really do think a new 75 player is somehow worth a nominal bit less. If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong, but you definitely come off that way.

At this point opinions, ideas and theories have been made, but I think people still adding to the thread (who don't seem to mind this change) are noticing what would seem to be hypocrisy and arrogance behind some of the statements made by some of the opponents of this change.


I guess what I am saying is that if someone honestly feels like a player who reaches 75, after this update, really is going to worth less, do not dance around it. Don't make your statements sound like you feel that way, and then try and talk out of it. Consider it a yes or no question.
For example, I would say "No", I don't think new 75s will be worth less. There are plenty of factors that make a player "good", the least of which is gaining the XP to get to 75 today. The update will not do away with the experience gained in XPing. People will still either understand what they should or not. Today, under the current system, there are many people that do not get it at all who are 60-75. Reverse the scenario for a second, since hypothetical situations seems to hold water in this discussion...

An update comes out that requires everyone to get more XP per level and suffer a greater loss when they are KOed. Would a new 75 be a better player that the old 75s? Would they be worth more? Would "75" mean more? I don't see how it could. The lessons to be learned will still be learned or not, based on that individual's drive to be a certain kind of player in this game, their aptitude for grasping the concepts of this game, and what type of mentoring they receive along the way.

75 is 75, goals are goals, people should be treated the way they treat others. This is still a community oriented game. This change should not separate groups of people. Those most "concerned" about this change should be at the front lines making sure it doesn't change much at all. Use your knowledge to help the community, for it is what is worthless if it is not shared for the better good.
 
I think what's frusterating Sneakypants, is I have said several times to clarify that it's the character that's worth less, not the player. Some people have more time to play than others, I never said that's a measure of skill or value as a player. It's just circumstantial.

And no, I don't think if exp requirements raised, new 75ers would be "worth more" . Because the fact of the matter is, old and new 75s with this change won't be worth more or less. As the less effort to reach 75 is required, than my 75 is worth less just as much as any one else's. That's where I feel the loss personally by this. It's not like anyone is gonna remember in a few months who was prepatch and who postpatch. They'll just know how long it takes for level 75.

But anyway.. this is a very important distiction, and I'm going to ignore all posts beyond this that ignore this point. The value of a character doesn't = the value of a player. When I say character value goes down, I mean just that. Nothing more. I am a very honest kind of person and not afraid to speak my mind. If I felt a player was worth less, I'd say it. But it's not my belief.
 
Firestreak said:
I The value of a character doesn't = the value of a player. When I say character value goes down, I mean just that.
Click to expand...

I don't understand what the difference is when we're all people playing our character. Our time put forth is our character. So how is the value of a player not equal to the value of their character?

Are you talking about on a personal level? Because that has nothing to do with any of this, I'm sure we can all agree. I'm extremely confused at this statment and I really wish in order to help us come to some kind of understanding as to what your saying that you could explain this in more detail.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top