PLD job and Native provoke ability

[memu]

Ruffy if youre going to use /thf in an exp party you should really use a greatsword, 100tp spinning slash will always beat a 100tp spiral hell or cross reaper. At lvl 75 you should be hitting spinning slash for about 1K+ or close to there. Dont really know why your guillo's are so low with /war, with double attack you should really be hitting higher numbers. Maybe try meat with an acc set up?

 

[Makelith]

My Guillotines just flat out suck against a lot of exp mobs. Even when all hits land, its for maybe 400-500 damage. Gay. Yeah, I do Equip swap. I find it much more useful to just SA and Spiral Hell every 100% TP I get then Abs-TP and do it again. With Martial Scythe and spiral hell, its about 800+ damage every time, just with 100% tp, and 1200ish with 200.

Just my experience using DRK for a while. /war simply sucks ass with my experience, unless I fight something not in aht urghan.

If that is indeed true, then you have ALOT of work to do on drk. Like seriously, rethink your merits/gear. Even with /nin sub i would bust out consistant 600+ guillotines.

 

[neophytal]

Eh, 2H weapon jobs dont suck. Most just arent geared that well. I know plenty of DRGs that hold their own quite well in EXP, SAM/WAR can out DD anything inlcuding a Ridill WAR, and I've heard of DRK/SAM keeping up really well with very good WARs.

ummmm wanna show where you're coming up with this? lol unless you are talking about a not so geared ridill war maybe.

 

[Ruffyreborn]

If that is indeed true, then you have ALOT of work to do on drk. Like seriously, rethink your merits/gear. Even with /nin sub i would bust out consistant 600+ guillotines.

I know Ive got work to do lol, I have no sky gear whatsoever. My STR+ with food is 45ish.

As far as merits go, I dont have a lot set in.

 

[Ruffyreborn]

Ruffy if youre going to use /thf in an exp party you should really use a greatsword, 100tp spinning slash will always beat a 100tp spiral hell or cross reaper. At lvl 75 you should be hitting spinning slash for about 1K+ or close to there. Dont really know why your guillo's are so low with /war, with double attack you should really be hitting higher numbers. Maybe try meat with an acc set up?

Ill have to disagree with you here, because Scythe will definitely hit for a good deal more damage each time than a GS will, which eventually makes up for the couple hundred more damage Spinning Slash offers

 

[Zoolander]

lol, can't say I've ever heard anyone say that drk/thf is better than /war. Somthing is wrong, or you are just eye balling the numbers and not looking at a parse, cause theres no way drk/thf should be out DDing /war at 75.

 

[Soujiro]

Im DRK main, Ive used WAR, and THF (Im working on leveling SAM) and I find that /thf still does much more damage than /war does. The activation rate of double attack when using 2h weapon is just atrocious.

Double Attack job trait is a constant activation rate of 10% across the boards for every single job including war main until they chose merit it or have gear that increases the rate like Brutal Earring or AF/relic. It's no more "atrocious" for drk with scythe than it is any job and any weapon, it's exactly the same. Also it's not 2005 anymore, so don't say that /thf is more damage. It simply is untrue. Stop looking at your WS dmg only for the one time a minute that SATA is up. If you still refuse to believe this to be a fact, please parse yourself or get someone you know that has a parser to do it and see for yourself instead of trying to eyeball it. If you can't do this, then you can do tests for yourself without a parser very easily simply by looking at text logs within a set time limit. There is no need to perpetuate these myths by people spreading misinformation every day. All of this has been well documented for several years by those that took the time to actually prove it instead of eyeballing and guesstimating.

 

[memu]

One thing you fail to realize as /thf is that its not about DoT, its about spike damage. If you really think your damage with scythe and spiral hell is going to beat a constant spinning slash at 100 tp then there is something really wrong with your drk. But then again i really dont know why you would choose /thf over /drg, /sam or /war.

 

[Ruffyreborn]

Double Attack job trait is a constant activation rate of 10% across the boards for every single job including war main until they chose merit it or have gear that increases the rate like Brutal Earring or AF/relic. It's no more "atrocious" for drk with scythe than it is any job and any weapon, it's exactly the same.

Yeah, everyone knows its a 10% activation rate. But, youre really not looking at something here. Using scythe, a weapon thats normally around 500 delay range... You simply arent going to get a lot of DA's, its that simple. Everyone should know that. DRK arent dual wielding, and they arent using low delay weapons. It really cuts the use of DA WAY down, imo.

Lets just look at it as if it werent a chance to get DA, and it were a fixed rate. 1 out of every 10 hits should be a DA. Thats maybe 1 DA every minute. Worthless.

Also it's not 2005 anymore, so don't say that /thf is more damage. It simply is untrue. Stop looking at your WS dmg only for the one time a minute that SATA is up. If you still refuse to believe this to be a fact, please parse yourself or get someone you know that has a parser to do it and see for yourself instead of trying to eyeball it. If you can't do this, then you can do tests for yourself without a parser very easily simply by looking at text logs within a set time limit. There is no need to perpetuate these myths by people spreading misinformation every day. All of this has been well documented for several years by those that took the time to actually prove it instead of eyeballing and guesstimating.

I know what year it is, lol. And although I havent run a parser, my numbers simply add up to be more than what /war is. Main reason? /war DoT is heavily dependant on Double Attack, and from that, just refer to what I said earlier. Sure, you get berserk, and lolwarcry, but Att+ food can easily make up for that.

 

[Makelith]

\And although I havent run a parser, my numbers simply add up to be more than what /war is.

Fix your incredibly MASSIVE problem right there before you keep giving out terrible information to more drks.

The only thing thats better than a war sub is drg sub, imo.

Thf is about as far down the list as you can go for good subs before you get in to the "just plain stupid" category.

 

[Ruffyreborn]

Fix your incredibly MASSIVE problem right there before you keep giving out terrible information to more drks.

The only thing thats better than a war sub is drg sub, imo.

Thf is about as far down the list as you can go for good subs before you get in to the "just plain stupid" category.

not really, your views, along with a lot of others, are very limited or one-sided when it comes to this game. But thats alright lol.

 

[Makelith]

They are very "limited" and "one sided", because we are good Drks, and don't need more noobish Drks popping up, or a noobish Drk giving other Drks noobish advice.

You said it yourself. "Drks need to be alot more prepared to be able to keep up with an average geared War."

You are only gimping yourself, and others, by subbing Thf, and telling others to sub Thf.

 

[duncanrun]

not really, your views, along with a lot of others, are very limited or one-sided when it comes to this game. But thats alright lol.

I no nothing about DRK to be honest but currently he is arguing one side (that has been backed over and over by parser) and you are argueing another side back by how you feel. So I would say your views are also very limeted and one sided as well.

 

[Ruffyreborn]

I no nothing about DRK to be honest but currently he is arguing one side (that has been backed over and over by parser) and you are argueing another side back by how you feel. So I would say your views are also very limeted and one sided as well.

But Makelith is trying to add Insult to Injury, lol.

If you look at my posts, I very clearly state that I would rather use /war in PRE aht urghan area's. A lot of people simply skim the post, and try to post a know-it-all response for w/e reason. I posted saying I use different jobs, and that I PREFER /thf.

/sigh, people just dont read

 

[duncanrun]

But Makelith is trying to add Insult to Injury, lol.

If you look at my posts, I very clearly state that I would rather use /war in PRE aht urghan area's. A lot of people simply skim the post, and try to post a know-it-all response for w/e reason. I posted saying I use different jobs, and that I PREFER /thf.

/sigh, people just dont read

I didn't skim I read every post and you do say /thf is better and more dmg. I don't pretend to know it all I don't escpecially about DRK he I even be wrong. All I was saying is you are being just as one sided as he is. You also try to add insults in as well just not as obviously. With comments like "/sigh, people just don't read" calling people know-it-alls. You can post your responce to this and thats fine Ill read it and see what you think but I don't want to start a flame so I wont post on the subject any more.

On the topic I like to have the game more diverse with more than one option for tank. If you give pld voke it will most likely become the end game tank. I prefer the game to have options and to make people think outside the box instead of having the cookie cutter PLD must be tank ect. ect.

 

[Tomasello]

On the topic I like to have the game more diverse with more than one option for tank. If you give pld voke it will most likely become the end game tank. I prefer the game to have options and to make people think outside the box instead of having the cookie cutter PLD must be tank ect. ect.

As opposed to the cookie cutter ninja tanking almost everything? Even with Provoke I guarentee there will still be plenty of nin/drks tanking hnms or nin/wars in exp. A pld/nin with shitty evasion, cause lets face it if plds had voke they would all sub ninja, would only put the job were it's supposed to be. As a purposely designed tank job that is useful in most situations. Not the, more trouble then there worth so I'm to lazy to heal and refresh them let's just get a nin tank, job it has become.

Somethings very wrong with this game when all people do is /sea all nin, war, brd and rdm, then whatever else we can get to come as close to that setup as possible.

Side note: Never partied with a drk/drg lol. I'd like to see how they do.

 

[Mishaela]

Souleater jumps... <3

And I think PLD'd get it's spot back in terms of tanking if defense/vit mattered more than it currently does. But as it stands, everything is gonna kick your butt if it hits you, and the only thing thats gonna help the damage is Utsusemi or shield blocks.

 

[Ruffyreborn]

I didn't skim I read every post and you do say /thf is better and more dmg. I don't pretend to know it all I don't escpecially about DRK he I even be wrong. All I was saying is you are being just as one sided as he is. You also try to add insults in as well just not as obviously. With comments like "/sigh, people just don't read" calling people know-it-alls. You can post your responce to this and thats fine Ill read it and see what you think but I don't want to start a flame so I wont post on the subject any more.

On the topic I like to have the game more diverse with more than one option for tank. If you give pld voke it will most likely become the end game tank. I prefer the game to have options and to make people think outside the box instead of having the cookie cutter PLD must be tank ect. ect.

Not trying to start flame, but I do enjoy when a topic stays spew-free, if ya know what I mean.

But, heres what I said, quoted directly:

Just my experience using DRK for a while. /war simply sucks ass with my experience, unless I fight something not in aht urghan.

That pretty much says I prefer to use something else as SJ in aht urghan. Nowhere have I said "DRK should go /thf" unless someone takes what I said out of context

 

[Makelith]

That pretty much says I prefer to use something else as SJ in aht urghan. Nowhere have I said "DRK should go /thf" unless someone takes what I said out of context

You don't have to outright say something to say it. People make connections based on what you say.

DRK arent dual wielding, and they arent using low delay weapons. It really cuts the use of DA WAY down, imo.

Lets just look at it as if it werent a chance to get DA, and it were a fixed rate. 1 out of every 10 hits should be a DA. Thats maybe 1 DA every minute. Worthless.

Sure, you get berserk, and lolwarcry, but Att+ food can easily make up for that.

You gave every reason you had right there to not sub war, and before that you gave every reason for someone to sub thief. You don't have to say "I think drks should go /thf" for that to be your point. I'm really not that good in english, but i believe that is called an inference.

Side note: Never partied with a drk/drg lol. I'd like to see how they do.

They are VERY good. The best possible sub for a drk to have in a merit party, imo. With that wyvern earring and jumps, i was able to keep up with some pretty good Wars.

 

[Zoolander]

DRK/SAM is pretty nice as well. /DRG, /SAM, /WAR all are great SJs, I have no idea why a DRK would want to sub thf, all of the above will allow you to TP much faster and also give alot of defensive abilities (jump for hate loss, seigan+third eye for anticipating attacks) as well as offensive abilities (jumps, hasso, meditate, attack bonus on /war, acc bonus on /drg, berserk, double attack, warcry, more base STR than /thf).

All /thf gives is a boost to WS's, and if you arent using SA Spinning Slash, I REALLY have no idea why you are subbing thf, because that is the only WS drk has that is worth SAing at 100% tp. Guillotine is multi hit, so SA is kinda dumb, Spiral Hell isnt anything special at 100% TP, and thats about all you have to work with besides spinning slash.